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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

I bought F4AF and I'm delighted and amazed with the graphics on my machine. But
I'm having trouble figuring things out. The little start up manual doesn't tell
me much except about the major systems. Nowhere can I find which buttons on my
joystick do what, except for the cannon which I figured out quick. The .pdf
manual says it's 700+ pages. But even then I can't find anyplace where it
explains the joystick buttons (Logitech Wingman Extreme) It does show you how
the $300 Thrustmaster HOTAS rig works, but I'm sorry, but I can't afford that
kind of toy. And the tutorials to me are usless. They drop you in the middle of
something and there's no audio to tell you what you should be doing. Any hints
or help? Thanks.
 

jp

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

<rfdjr1@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mndag19nrgoilh1anrh9m1kv921n2re0nn@4ax.com...
> I bought F4AF and I'm delighted and amazed with the graphics on my
machine. But
> I'm having trouble figuring things out. The little start up manual doesn't
tell
> me much except about the major systems. Nowhere can I find which buttons
on my
> joystick do what, except for the cannon which I figured out quick. The
..pdf
> manual says it's 700+ pages. But even then I can't find anyplace where it
> explains the joystick buttons (Logitech Wingman Extreme) It does show you
how
> the $300 Thrustmaster HOTAS rig works, but I'm sorry, but I can't afford
that
> kind of toy. And the tutorials to me are usless. They drop you in the
middle of
> something and there's no audio to tell you what you should be doing. Any
hints
> or help? Thanks.
>


In the setup page, go to controls. Click whatever button you're
interested in. It's function will then be shown to the bottom right of the
screen. You can change functions there too.
 
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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:58:51 -0500, "JP" <jp@nicetry.com> wrote:

>
><rfdjr1@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:mndag19nrgoilh1anrh9m1kv921n2re0nn@4ax.com...
>> I bought F4AF and I'm delighted and amazed with the graphics on my
>machine. But
>> I'm having trouble figuring things out. The little start up manual doesn't
>tell
>> me much except about the major systems. Nowhere can I find which buttons
>on my
>> joystick do what, except for the cannon which I figured out quick. The
>.pdf
>> manual says it's 700+ pages. But even then I can't find anyplace where it
>> explains the joystick buttons (Logitech Wingman Extreme) It does show you
>how
>> the $300 Thrustmaster HOTAS rig works, but I'm sorry, but I can't afford
>that
>> kind of toy. And the tutorials to me are usless. They drop you in the
>middle of
>> something and there's no audio to tell you what you should be doing. Any
>hints
>> or help? Thanks.
>>
>
>
> In the setup page, go to controls. Click whatever button you're
>interested in. It's function will then be shown to the bottom right of the
>screen. You can change functions there too.
>
Thanks. I was at that screen but didn't notice you could set up the buttons.
 
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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

rfdjr1@optonline.net wrote:
> I bought F4AF and I'm delighted and amazed with the graphics on my machine. But
> I'm having trouble figuring things out. The little start up manual doesn't tell
> me much except about the major systems. Nowhere can I find which buttons on my
> joystick do what, except for the cannon which I figured out quick. The .pdf
> manual says it's 700+ pages. But even then I can't find anyplace where it
> explains the joystick buttons (Logitech Wingman Extreme) It does show you how
> the $300 Thrustmaster HOTAS rig works, but I'm sorry, but I can't afford that
> kind of toy. And the tutorials to me are usless. They drop you in the middle of
> something and there's no audio to tell you what you should be doing. Any hints
> or help? Thanks.
>

F4 is a continual learning experience - and I can't tell you how many
hours I've spent reading material, and I still don't have a freaking
clue. That isn't a bad thing - it's just pretty darn realistic.

Download and read BeachAV8R's training and campaign mission narratives.
Last I heard they were here:
http://www.freewebs.com/themutleyzone/falcon40.htm

Read the 100+ page manual, then read it again. Then dip into the 700+
page one in chapters that you're interested in. It took me about 2
months of almost nightly reading to get through that.

Read the actual Lockheed Martin technical doc on the MLU at
http://www.f4hq.com/files/documents37/MLU_M1.pdf. That should get you
started.

Since you don't have a HOTAS stick, you're going to have to pretty much
use the KB for a lot of functionality. That's OK - just map the 6 or 8
most-used must-have-immediately functions to yuor stick and go from there.

Read Frugal's forums as much as you can, and the SimHQ F4:AF forum as
well. Good info those places.

James
 
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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

<rfdjr1@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mndag19nrgoilh1anrh9m1kv921n2re0nn@4ax.com...
>I bought F4AF and I'm delighted and amazed with the graphics on my machine.
>But
> I'm having trouble figuring things out. The little start up manual doesn't
> tell
> me much except about the major systems. Nowhere can I find which buttons
> on my
> joystick do what, except for the cannon which I figured out quick. The
> .pdf
> manual says it's 700+ pages. But even then I can't find anyplace where it
> explains the joystick buttons (Logitech Wingman Extreme) It does show you
> how
> the $300 Thrustmaster HOTAS rig works, but I'm sorry, but I can't afford
> that
> kind of toy. And the tutorials to me are usless. They drop you in the
> middle of
> something and there's no audio to tell you what you should be doing. Any
> hints
> or help? Thanks.
>

Try learning basic A-A combat first. Go to "Dogfight" and select "Furball
Guns Only". From here you can add in an opponent to duel against - pick
something sluggish like an F4 Phantom to fight against.

When you're in the air press the D key ( Dogfight mode ) and go from there.

I find for close in A-A guns only 'knife fights' the vertical radar mode is
excellent. Might be worth mapping one of your joystick buttons to ACM
Vertical Mode so that you can select it quickly in a fight. This mode
allows you to lock up targets immediately in front and above you.

Also look at padlocking - especially as you progress onto more agile
enemies.

Guns only is a good place to start, as with missiles in the air you have to
not only fight the enemy plane but the enemy missiles too ;-)

F4AF is a complex sim - start at the beginning and learn one thing at a
time.

ETV
 
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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 04:10:51 +0100, "Eric The Viking" <etv@nospam.nowhere.com>
wrote:

>
><rfdjr1@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:mndag19nrgoilh1anrh9m1kv921n2re0nn@4ax.com...
>>I bought F4AF and I'm delighted and amazed with the graphics on my machine.
>>But
>> I'm having trouble figuring things out. The little start up manual doesn't
>> tell
>> me much except about the major systems. Nowhere can I find which buttons
>> on my
>> joystick do what, except for the cannon which I figured out quick. The
>> .pdf
>> manual says it's 700+ pages. But even then I can't find anyplace where it
>> explains the joystick buttons (Logitech Wingman Extreme) It does show you
>> how
>> the $300 Thrustmaster HOTAS rig works, but I'm sorry, but I can't afford
>> that
>> kind of toy. And the tutorials to me are usless. They drop you in the
>> middle of
>> something and there's no audio to tell you what you should be doing. Any
>> hints
>> or help? Thanks.
>>
>
>Try learning basic A-A combat first. Go to "Dogfight" and select "Furball
>Guns Only". From here you can add in an opponent to duel against - pick
>something sluggish like an F4 Phantom to fight against.
>
>When you're in the air press the D key ( Dogfight mode ) and go from there.
>
>I find for close in A-A guns only 'knife fights' the vertical radar mode is
>excellent. Might be worth mapping one of your joystick buttons to ACM
>Vertical Mode so that you can select it quickly in a fight. This mode
>allows you to lock up targets immediately in front and above you.
>
>Also look at padlocking - especially as you progress onto more agile
>enemies.
>
>Guns only is a good place to start, as with missiles in the air you have to
>not only fight the enemy plane but the enemy missiles too ;-)
>
>F4AF is a complex sim - start at the beginning and learn one thing at a
>time.
>
>ETV
>
Thanks to all so far. One of my problems is this: I have the avionics set to
simple. In the left MFD I see bogeys, red triangles, close in and ead in front
of me. But I see nothing in the sky in front of me. And there's no target box
(or is this because of the simple setting?) Even though there are bogeys on the
radar, I see nothing to chase around. How can I tell if they're hi or lo?
Thanks.
P.S. Before you flame me (or as a reason to) I know a lot of you gamers are
younger people. I'm pushing 60 and just don't pick up on these games and sims as
fast.
 
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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

>>
> Thanks to all so far. One of my problems is this: I have the avionics set
> to
> simple. In the left MFD I see bogeys, red triangles, close in and ead in
> front
> of me. But I see nothing in the sky in front of me. And there's no target
> box
> (or is this because of the simple setting?) Even though there are bogeys
> on the
> radar, I see nothing to chase around. How can I tell if they're hi or lo?
> Thanks.
> P.S. Before you flame me (or as a reason to) I know a lot of you gamers
> are
> younger people. I'm pushing 60 and just don't pick up on these games and
> sims as
> fast.
>

Don't run before you can walk, even when pushing 60... :)
F4 (weither it's F4 SP4, FF3 or F4 AF) is "not" an easy simulation, even not
if you select the simple setting.
Personally, i feel the simple setting is a bit of rubbish because you will
have to all learn it over again when you move on to the realistic setting.
And realistic it is. This sim is not somthing that you will learn on a rainy
afternoon, you will need to spend time (and time and time and time) to learn
it.

Now for those bogeys. Ever tried to put on labels (think it's shift-L)? Even
then, there is a labels distance setting, like anything further away then 20
nm will not have labels (or your screen would full of them).

Also, your biggest source of information is:
http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=73
There alone, you can spend more then a few days just reading and searching
through the various posts about F4 AF!

Have fun... :)


--
Lange,
666th Black Brigade
http://www.666th.com
ICQ: 15439346
 
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rfdjr1@optonline.net wrote:
> P.S. Before you flame me (or as a reason to) I know a lot of you gamers are
> younger people. I'm pushing 60 and just don't pick up on these games and sims as
> fast.

I know how you feel, I'm 56 and can generally work these games out as I have
heaps of experience but you are fighting a loosing battle when you find the manual
is incorrect and it doesn't support some hardware.
The section on a Ramp Start has numerous errors quoting incorrect keyboard
short-cuts and the wrong consoles to select switches. My Saitel Cyborg 3D stick
doesn't show any of the top buttons (trigger, thumb buttons) in the config so I can't
set them. No problems with MSFS 2004 etc.
This game is just a hack using SP4 and other stuff on the Net to make a quick buck.
The only saving grace is my original Falcon 4.0 spiral bound manual has some use again
as most of it is an exact copy of the pdf.

--
Regards Bob
 
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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Exactly.

Between the GPLers and F4 freaks we'll never get broad acceptance in any sim
ever again.

We'll look back forever on those days around 98ish and wonder why the games
today all seem to be misssing one thing or another for each individual.
Cant make anyone happy anymore.

10 years ago the sim world would have creamed their pants for a race sim the
quality of GTL. Today its one complaint after another then the typical, it
aint no GPL nonsense..

Its not the games its the gamers that is the real problem.

In 1998 it still took some skill and knowledge and most importantly money to
have a nice enough rig to run the games.

Those Kiddie filters are now off and we have more chaff than simmers....




"Bob Byrne" <rbyrne@NOSPAMinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:4306939b@duster.adelaide.on.net...
> rfdjr1@optonline.net wrote:
>> P.S. Before you flame me (or as a reason to) I know a lot of you gamers
>> are
>> younger people. I'm pushing 60 and just don't pick up on these games and
>> sims as
>> fast.
>
> I know how you feel, I'm 56 and can generally work these games out as I
> have
> heaps of experience but you are fighting a loosing battle when you find
> the manual
> is incorrect and it doesn't support some hardware.
> The section on a Ramp Start has numerous errors quoting incorrect keyboard
> short-cuts and the wrong consoles to select switches. My Saitel Cyborg 3D
> stick
> doesn't show any of the top buttons (trigger, thumb buttons) in the config
> so I can't
> set them. No problems with MSFS 2004 etc.
> This game is just a hack using SP4 and other stuff on the Net to make a
> quick buck.
> The only saving grace is my original Falcon 4.0 spiral bound manual has
> some use again
> as most of it is an exact copy of the pdf.
>
> --
> Regards Bob
>
>
 
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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:58:51 -0500, "JP" <jp@nicetry.com> wrote:

>
><rfdjr1@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:mndag19nrgoilh1anrh9m1kv921n2re0nn@4ax.com...
>> I bought F4AF and I'm delighted and amazed with the graphics on my
>machine. But
>> I'm having trouble figuring things out. The little start up manual doesn't
>tell
>> me much except about the major systems. Nowhere can I find which buttons
>on my
>> joystick do what, except for the cannon which I figured out quick. The
>.pdf
>> manual says it's 700+ pages. But even then I can't find anyplace where it
>> explains the joystick buttons (Logitech Wingman Extreme) It does show you
>how
>> the $300 Thrustmaster HOTAS rig works, but I'm sorry, but I can't afford
>that
>> kind of toy. And the tutorials to me are usless. They drop you in the
>middle of
>> something and there's no audio to tell you what you should be doing. Any
>hints
>> or help? Thanks.
>>
>
>
> In the setup page, go to controls. Click whatever button you're
>interested in. It's function will then be shown to the bottom right of the
>screen. You can change functions there too.
>

Mine doesn't do that. I have a Saitek Cyborg EVO wireless and not all
of the buttons will light up the corresponding button in setup.

Buttons 2,3,4 (thumb) and trigger don't light up. Trigger works in
game. Only the base mounted buttons and two upper joystick buttons
light up.

Is there another way to reset the buttons?

Mike
AOL AIM: ATCSMike
Yahoo Messenger: frostbitemike
United States Navy 1979-1982
Aviation Machinists Mate 2nd Class
VT-23, HS-1, USS Carl Vinson CVN70 (Plank Owner)


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Virus Database (VPS): 0534-0, 08/22/2005
Tested on: 8/22/2005 4:55:47 PM
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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

I am speaking from off the top of my head from my past experience with
the original F4, but I would bet
that in easy avionics, it is still the same.
Your left MFD shows the red and blue triangles right?
All the red are enemy! (Is that easy or what?!)
You are in the center of the MFD and all planes within the proximity of
your radar distance setting are shown around you 360 degrees. But you
can only target planes within 60 degrees in front of you.
You should see a cursor in the center of the MFD that you can move with
the arrow keys.
Push "enter" to select your A-A weapon, place the cursor in the left
MFD over one of the red enemy triangles, then push 0 on the numpad to
lock. When you are within range, "FIRE" will show on your HUD.
When the missile goes "pitbull" (within the range of it's own
seeker-head) you can lock up another target.
I believe "target nose" (delete key), "target next" (end key), and
'target previous" (page-down key) still works also.
"In the left MFD I see bogeys, red triangles, close in and in front of
me. But I see nothing in the sky in front of me. And there's no target
box
(or is this because of the simple setting?) Even though there are
bogeys on the radar, I see nothing to chase around. How can I tell if
they're hi or lo? "

The red triangles on the MFD should have a number to the left of the
triangle. 0 means it's at the same altitude as you, 1 means it's a
thousand feet above,
-1 means it's a thousand feet below. When you "lock" the target, and it
is directly in front of you, you will see a target box in the HUD. If
the target is to the left or right of you, you will see a line coming
from the gun cross in the HUD that points to the target.
The reason you do not "see" anything in front of you, is usually
because your target is BVR. (Beyond visual range.) If you look at the
left-top of your left MFD, you will see a number that represents your
radar search distance. I think by default it is set to 40 miles, the
outer ring on the MFD being 40, so you can gauge pretty much how far a
target is from you if it is between the outer ring and you.(center)
You can toggle the distance by pressing F4, (farther)
or F3.(closer)
If you want to use labels, shift-L shows everything within 5 miles, and
control-L shows everything within
40 miles. (Not sure of this distance.) (Just pushing L toggles zoom
view on and off.)
Your distance missiles are radar (AIM120) and you must have a lock to
use them, or they will go "Maddog" and find their own target, basically
in front of them, so make sure you don't fire Maddog if there is a
chance of any friendlies in front of you.
Your AIM9's are usually rear-aspect missiles. (Heaters) meaning they
work best when you are behind your target. But I have used them head-on
and side angles with great success.
If you ever get the chance, try to pick up the original 3-ring binder
manual, as this will give you all the info you will need to learn the
functions of your HUD, MFD's, radars, weapons, etc. because the
realistic mode looks and feels much better than "easy."
You don't have to sit there and read the whole thing, just find the
section pertinent to what you are doing at the time and read THAT. Just
use it as you need it.
>From what I have heard, the PDF manual is almost the same as the
original, but inconvenient because you would have to print it out to
have it in front of you while you are trying to learn. I would just
print out a section or page as I need it, instead of printing the whole
thing and paying $500 dollars to print and bind.
%^)
Hope this helps,
E-Man
 

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