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Mixer recommendations

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November 2, 2004 7:32:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi,
I'm looking for a mixer, around 16 to 20 channels, for live work with
rock bands, etc. It would be handy if it was fairly compact, but thats
not essential, good EQ, preferably parametric but doubt I will get that
on my budget. I do have some outboard mic pre's (RNP) so it doesn't
matter if they are sparse, or perhaps even non existant.

Perhaps more unusual, I'd like to also be able to send each channel to a
DAW for recording the live performance and later remixing. I'd rather
not rely on "going through" the DAW incase it crashes during a
performance. If that isn't possible, perhaps I can live with that.

I probably wouldn't want to spend much more than $2000 to $2500, though
at a push I could perhaps go further, maybe to $3000.

I'm looking for quality over features really, any suggestions ?

Cheers,

Mark.
--

More about : mixer recommendations

Anonymous
November 2, 2004 7:32:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mark wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a mixer, around 16 to 20 channels, for live work with
> rock bands, etc.

> Perhaps more unusual, I'd like to also be able to send each channel to a
> DAW for recording the live performance and later remixing.
>
> I probably wouldn't want to spend much more than $2000 to $2500, though
> at a push I could perhaps go further, maybe to $3000.
>
> I'm looking for quality over features



Crest XR-20

Meets your requirements as you stated them.

http://www.crestaudio.com/products/xrackseries/xr20.cfm

Recommended with substantial personal experience.



TM
Anonymous
November 2, 2004 9:32:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>Mark wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking for a mixer, around 16 to 20 channels, for live work with
>> rock bands, etc.
>
>> Perhaps more unusual, I'd like to also be able to send each channel to a
>> DAW for recording the live performance and later remixing.
>>
>> I probably wouldn't want to spend much more than $2000 to $2500, though
>> at a push I could perhaps go further, maybe to $3000.
>>
>> I'm looking for quality over features

Yes, the Crest mixer is a good unit but, while you may have it set sounding
good for your PA speakers, what you get on tape or computer (or what ever you
using) may not sound all that hot.
What I mean here is, good sounds coming out of your main PA speakers may not
work well for your recording. You may be better off investing in a nice pair of
mics, have a real pro soundman help you refine your PA skills and do a stereo
pair out in front of your PA.
Related resources
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Anonymous
November 2, 2004 9:53:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have to say Soundcraft Spirit Live 4*2 (NOT Spirit Live, Spirit Live 4,
Spirit live 3.2)
Link: http://www.soundcraft.com/product_sheet.asp?product_id=...

This is the best Live-Console-On-A-Budget I've ever mixed on.

Max



"Mark" <marks@nospamhere.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:cm8crq$nl3$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> Hi,
> I'm looking for a mixer, around 16 to 20 channels, for live work with rock
> bands, etc. It would be handy if it was fairly compact, but thats not
> essential, good EQ, preferably parametric but doubt I will get that on my
> budget. I do have some outboard mic pre's (RNP) so it doesn't matter if
> they are sparse, or perhaps even non existant.
>
> Perhaps more unusual, I'd like to also be able to send each channel to a
> DAW for recording the live performance and later remixing. I'd rather not
> rely on "going through" the DAW incase it crashes during a performance.
> If that isn't possible, perhaps I can live with that.
>
> I probably wouldn't want to spend much more than $2000 to $2500, though at
> a push I could perhaps go further, maybe to $3000.
>
> I'm looking for quality over features really, any suggestions ?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mark.
> --
Anonymous
November 2, 2004 11:21:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Raymond" <bruwhaha58097238@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041102133223.01264.00000004@mb-m03.aol.com

> Yes, the Crest mixer is a good unit but, while you may have it set
> sounding good for your PA speakers, what you get on tape or computer
> (or what ever you using) may not sound all that hot.

Obviously, you what you need to do record each mic on a different channel of
the DAW, and do a separate mixdown later for the distributed recording later
on.

I do this all the time. It just works.

> What I mean here is, good sounds coming out of your main PA speakers
> may not work well for your recording.

Agreed.

> You may be better off investing
> in a nice pair of mics, have a real pro soundman help you refine your
> PA skills and do a stereo pair out in front of your PA.

Been there done that, and its an easy way to have a fiasco.
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 1:05:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>What I mean here is, good sounds coming out of your main PA speakers may not
>work well for your recording.

Most of the compensation for the PA in the room should come from DSP and eq's.
Unless you are doing drastic channel processing it should work OK as long as
levels are set correctly.

John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 3:13:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Blind Joni <blindjoni@aol.com> wrote:
>>What I mean here is, good sounds coming out of your main PA speakers may not
>>work well for your recording.
>
>Most of the compensation for the PA in the room should come from DSP and eq's.
>Unless you are doing drastic channel processing it should work OK as long as
>levels are set correctly.

In a perfect world, yes. But sometimes I want even different mikes on
the PA and recording feeds... and sometimes there is outright war \
between the PA and recording crews.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 12:33:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cm8crq$nl3$1@sparta.btinternet.com> marks@nospamhere.net writes:

> I'm looking for a mixer, around 16 to 20 channels, for live work with
> rock bands, etc. It would be handy if it was fairly compact, but thats
> not essential, good EQ, preferably parametric but doubt I will get that
> on my budget. I do have some outboard mic pre's (RNP) so it doesn't
> matter if they are sparse, or perhaps even non existant.
>
> Perhaps more unusual, I'd like to also be able to send each channel to a
> DAW for recording the live performance and later remixing.

That's not so unusual. How much of a hurry are you in? The new Mackie
Onyx series has received good reports and they come from good stock.
The 16-channel version isn't out yet but it's "coming soon." There's
an option available for it (also "coming soon") that provides direct
outputs from the mic preamps into an A/D converter and out a Firewire
port to connect to your computer for direct recording.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
November 3, 2004 1:15:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

From: "Raymond" <bruwhaha58097238@aol.com>
> Yes, the Crest mixer is a good unit but, while you may have it set
> sounding
> good for your PA speakers, what you get on tape or computer (or what ever
> you
> using) may not sound all that hot.

What I actually want to do is take a feed from each channel
(pre-fader/eq/efx) into my DAW so I can remix and re-eq it later. Does the
Crest allow for this ? How about the Soundcraft Live which is the other
console that has been recommended ?

Cheers for your help everyone.

Mark.
--
November 3, 2004 1:16:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:NeOdnXOdfo6drhXcRVn-qw@comcast.com...
> Obviously, you what you need to do record each mic on a different channel
> of the DAW, and do a separate mixdown later for the distributed recording
> later on.

Yes this is exactly what I want to do, any idea if the Crest or Soundcraft
Live can do this ?

Cheers,

Mark.
--
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 1:16:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mark" <marks@nospamhere.net> wrote in message
news:4188aefe$0$120$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net

> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:NeOdnXOdfo6drhXcRVn-qw@comcast.com...

>> Obviously, you what you need to do record each mic on a different
>> channel of the DAW, and do a separate mixdown later for the
>> distributed recording later on.

> Yes this is exactly what I want to do, any idea if the Crest or
> Soundcraft Live can do this ?

Do they have inserts? If so, they are natural places to attach the inputs to
a DAW. If you want to actually use the inserts for EFX and the like, it
makes the wiring a bit more complex.
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 2:39:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I said Soundcraft Live 4*2 NOT Soundcraft Live... There is a huge difference
between the two!!!!

Le Soundcraft Live 4*2 has Direct Output for each channel plus matrix on
busses and main buss.... It's a really clever console for it's price!!


"Mark" <marks@nospamhere.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:4188aebc$0$106$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
> From: "Raymond" <bruwhaha58097238@aol.com>
>> Yes, the Crest mixer is a good unit but, while you may have it set
>> sounding
>> good for your PA speakers, what you get on tape or computer (or what ever
>> you
>> using) may not sound all that hot.
>
> What I actually want to do is take a feed from each channel
> (pre-fader/eq/efx) into my DAW so I can remix and re-eq it later. Does
> the Crest allow for this ? How about the Soundcraft Live which is the
> other console that has been recommended ?
>
> Cheers for your help everyone.
>
> Mark.
> --
>
>
November 3, 2004 2:39:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Maxy" <maxy888[NOSPAM]@tiscali.it> wrote in message
news:Qz2id.29976$B06.15126@news.edisontel.com...
>I said Soundcraft Live 4*2 NOT Soundcraft Live... There is a huge
>difference between the two!!!!

Oops, okay sorry ;-)

I did do a search on the Soundcraft Live 4*2 and I saw some posts about
quality issues, though I suppose they may not mean anything, it is always
possible to have a few lemons in the bunch on mass manufactured equipment.
I think the main complaint from people is that it is a "Spirit", but again
in the price range I'm looking, thats probably fine. I do however prefer
the fact that it is not a rack mount, but at the end of the day its peoples
comments on the quality that will count.

Is there much between these two boards ? Will the Crest allow pre-fade/etc
output for every channel ? How about the pre-amps on these boards ? I
obviously know I cannot have everything at this price..

Cheers,

Mark.
--
November 3, 2004 4:00:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I've downloaded the Crest XR20 manual and it does indeed seem to have
direct-outs for each channel. However, they are post fader, but with an
internal option to make them pre-fader, which is what I'd want. Does it not
void the warranty if I open the unit up and make this internal change ?
Also, if its pre-fader, is it still post EQ and/or post FX ?

Also, out of curiousity, how do the mic pre's on the XR20 compare to say the
RNP (which I have already) ?

Thanks in advance.

Mark.
--
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 4:01:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mark wrote:
>
> I've downloaded the Crest XR20 manual and it does indeed seem to have
> direct-outs for each channel. However, they are post fader, but with an
> internal option to make them pre-fader, which is what I'd want. Does it not
> void the warranty if I open the unit up and make this internal change ?
> Also, if its pre-fader, is it still post EQ and/or post FX ?



Look at the diagram at the bottom of page 14. It would
appear that one can strap it for pre-fade/pre-EQ to the
direct outs. The best advice is to contact Crest and ask
them. (I rarely use EQ when I record, and very little when
doing live shows, so I have not been concerned with this
mod).

The second best advice is to let Crest or your reputable
Crest dealer (from whom you certainly were going to buy...)
do the modifications. There are few sights sadder than a
dining room table covered with case screws, knob caps,
ribbon cables, smoking soldering tools, and some guy sitting
there with his head in his hands wishing he'd let somebody
else do this. Let somebody else do it.

Or buy something else. You might also check out the Crest
HP-8 series. It's in your price range and looks like a
"real" board (non-rack mount).



TM
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 4:36:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Well, not quite. Doesn't have parametric, but has nice mid controls
(doesn't include Q). Works for me. I've been an advocate since I bought
mine in 2001. It's well thought out, has many possibilities in usage, great
mic pres, etc. NOT easy to do a day to day setup of, but if one thinks it
out and has enough work to make the expense worth it, can easily operate in
almost any sub-1000 person environment quick and efficiently. You can gang
two XR20s by bus and have 32 channels of excellent mic pres and still
maintain a true 4 buss grouping, but were I to want to go to 32 channels,
I'd probably look at the X consoles.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"T Maki" <tmaki@pe.net> wrote in message news:4187BB5E.1F5B5A98@pe.net...
> Mark wrote:
> >
> > I'm looking for a mixer, around 16 to 20 channels, for live work with
> > rock bands, etc.
>
> > Perhaps more unusual, I'd like to also be able to send each channel to a
> > DAW for recording the live performance and later remixing.
> >
> > I probably wouldn't want to spend much more than $2000 to $2500, though
> > at a push I could perhaps go further, maybe to $3000.
> >
> > I'm looking for quality over features
>
>
>
> Crest XR-20
>
> Meets your requirements as you stated them.
>
> http://www.crestaudio.com/products/xrackseries/xr20.cfm
>
> Recommended with substantial personal experience.
>
>
>
> TM
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 4:38:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bull. I've done hundreds of recordings live with the Crest XR20 as the sole
console and not had a single recording end up less than excellent in
quality.

Perhaps you need to rent one and find out for yourself.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Raymond" <bruwhaha58097238@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041102133223.01264.00000004@mb-m03.aol.com...
> >Mark wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm looking for a mixer, around 16 to 20 channels, for live work with
> >> rock bands, etc.
> >
> >> Perhaps more unusual, I'd like to also be able to send each channel to
a
> >> DAW for recording the live performance and later remixing.
> >>
> >> I probably wouldn't want to spend much more than $2000 to $2500, though
> >> at a push I could perhaps go further, maybe to $3000.
> >>
> >> I'm looking for quality over features
>
> Yes, the Crest mixer is a good unit but, while you may have it set
sounding
> good for your PA speakers, what you get on tape or computer (or what ever
you
> using) may not sound all that hot.
> What I mean here is, good sounds coming out of your main PA speakers may
not
> work well for your recording. You may be better off investing in a nice
pair of
> mics, have a real pro soundman help you refine your PA skills and do a
stereo
> pair out in front of your PA.
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 4:44:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Yeah, both the Crest XR20 can feed direct outs to a multitrack, regardless
of what it is. Additionally, if you don't like fader moves affecting your
recording you can open the box, change about 4 jumpers on each card and have
a system that feeds the direct outs pre fader, which means less worries for
those of you that don't pay attention. But I've been recording with the
XR20 in live situations since 2001 and have only had excellent product both
to a couple of Tascam DA38s and a DAW. Most of us that work with live
setups know that it's up to us to eliminate stage problems with faders. For
those less experienced, then perhaps it's worth looking to doing the
pre-fader option I mentioned earlier.

The Soundcraft Lx-7 is another nice console, and it's easier to set up on a
day to day basis. Equal sound quality to the XR-20? You bet.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Mark" <marks@nospamhere.net> wrote in message
news:4188aefe$0$120$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:NeOdnXOdfo6drhXcRVn-qw@comcast.com...
> > Obviously, you what you need to do record each mic on a different
channel
> > of the DAW, and do a separate mixdown later for the distributed
recording
> > later on.
>
> Yes this is exactly what I want to do, any idea if the Crest or Soundcraft
> Live can do this ?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mark.
> --
>
>
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 4:51:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

No. In fact, when I brought it up here for mine, I had a gentleman from
Crest email me with the specs on changing the jumpers inside to set it up
for post pre/pre everything else. Nice guys.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Mark" <marks@nospamhere.net> wrote in message
news:4188d570$0$92027$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
> I've downloaded the Crest XR20 manual and it does indeed seem to have
> direct-outs for each channel. However, they are post fader, but with an
> internal option to make them pre-fader, which is what I'd want. Does it
not
> void the warranty if I open the unit up and make this internal change ?
> Also, if its pre-fader, is it still post EQ and/or post FX ?
>
> Also, out of curiousity, how do the mic pre's on the XR20 compare to say
the
> RNP (which I have already) ?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Mark.
> --
>
>
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 9:53:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <4188d570$0$92027$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net> marks@nospamhere.net writes:

> I've downloaded the Crest XR20 manual and it does indeed seem to have
> direct-outs for each channel. However, they are post fader, but with an
> internal option to make them pre-fader, which is what I'd want. Does it not
> void the warranty if I open the unit up and make this internal change ?

If it's an option, then you won't void the warranty if you open it and
make the change. Chances are it's moving a plug-in jumper rather than
soldering on the circuit board. But of course if you're not careful,
you can casuse some damage that isn't covered under the warranty.

> Also, if its pre-fader, is it still post EQ and/or post FX ?

Is there a block diagram? That should tell you.

> Also, out of curiousity, how do the mic pre's on the XR20 compare to say the
> RNP (which I have already) ?

No two different mic preamps are comparable. The Crest is clean and
quiet. The RNP is quiet and has a little character, but one that most
people like. Neither will be a problem, and in a live situation, you
have far more things that will affect the sound of your recording than
the mic preamp. Chances are the only way you'd hear anything of
concern is if the preamp was broken. Preamp obsession is for the
studio, not for the road.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
November 4, 2004 1:15:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:53:35 +0100, "Maxy" <maxy888[NOSPAM]@tiscali.it>
wrote:

>I have to say Soundcraft Spirit Live 4*2 (NOT Spirit Live, Spirit Live 4,
>Spirit live 3.2)
>Link: http://www.soundcraft.com/product_sheet.asp?product_id=...
>
>This is the best Live-Console-On-A-Budget I've ever mixed on.
>
>Max
>
WOW!! That Ghost console looks awesome!! I'd really like to have
something like THAT for my home studio. How much does it cost?
November 4, 2004 3:25:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks everyone you've been a great help :-)

Mark.
--

Roger W. Norman wrote:
> Well, not quite. Doesn't have parametric, but has nice mid controls
> (doesn't include Q). Works for me. I've been an advocate since I bought
> mine in 2001. It's well thought out, has many possibilities in usage, great
> mic pres, etc. NOT easy to do a day to day setup of, but if one thinks it
> out and has enough work to make the expense worth it, can easily operate in
> almost any sub-1000 person environment quick and efficiently. You can gang
> two XR20s by bus and have 32 channels of excellent mic pres and still
> maintain a true 4 buss grouping, but were I to want to go to 32 channels,
> I'd probably look at the X consoles.
>
Anonymous
November 5, 2004 2:06:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>In a perfect world, yes. But sometimes I want even different mikes on
>the PA and recording feeds... and sometimes there is outright war \
>between the PA and recording crews.
>--scott

I can see this happening. I usually do small live recordings myself.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
Anonymous
November 6, 2004 11:14:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mark" <marks@nospamhere.net> wrote in message
news:4188d570$0$92027$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
> I've downloaded the Crest XR20 manual and it does indeed seem to have
> direct-outs for each channel. However, they are post fader, but with
an
> internal option to make them pre-fader, which is what I'd want. Does
it not
> void the warranty if I open the unit up and make this internal change
?
> Also, if its pre-fader, is it still post EQ and/or post FX ?



You've got the manual, what does it say about where the direct out fits
in the signal flow?

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 2:16:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>
>"Mark" <marks@nospamhere.net> wrote in message
>news:4188d570$0$92027$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
>> I've downloaded the Crest XR20 manual and it does indeed seem to have
>> direct-outs for each channel. However, they are post fader, but with
>an
>> internal option to make them pre-fader, which is what I'd want. Does
>it not
>> void the warranty if I open the unit up and make this internal change
>?
>> Also, if its pre-fader, is it still post EQ and/or post FX ?
>
Does the manual indicate if the inserts are PFL? Should also answer your
question about auxs and EQ. Just another option.


--Wayne

-"sounded good to me"-
!