Nagra, Uher ... portable open reel recorders ... questions..

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi,

I've been into open reel recorders for a couple of years now, but it's
getting particularly hard to log these 50 lb monsters around. I love the
sound of these but would like to find something I could take with me. I've
read a bit about Nagra and Uher (Uher from mostly Scott Dorsey posts) but
still have some questions: I know that Nagra is still available new but feel
(and fear) these would go for several thousand and I'd prefer not to go that
route. I know Nagra sells on eBay but it's a bit risky that way. Same with
Uher. Are Uhers still available new ? In a perfect world I'd like to get one
of these, new, for about $500 - $1000 tops but that's not going to happen
most likely. Anyway, what would be ideal is to find someone (a company)
which restores to "new" status these machines that I can buy for much less.
Is there a company which you would recommend ?

As I'm kinda unfamiliar with the features of these machines I'd like to ask
which machine would be recommended to act like a normal 3 head two track
open reel recorder, 7" reels, 7 1/2 ips, 1/4" or xlr mic inputs, trims, rca
ins and outs etc ........ Something that can replicate the functions and
features of some of the popular full sized "prosumer" machines available in
the 70's, 80's etc ....... Also, is a FULL track machine available ?

Thanks for any info!

Daniel

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've been into open reel recorders for a couple of years now, but it's
> getting particularly hard to log these 50 lb monsters around. I love the
> sound of these but would like to find something I could take with me. I've
> read a bit about Nagra and Uher (Uher from mostly Scott Dorsey posts) but
> still have some questions: I know that Nagra is still available new but feel
> (and fear) these would go for several thousand and I'd prefer not to go that
> route. I know Nagra sells on eBay but it's a bit risky that way. Same with
> Uher. Are Uhers still available new ? In a perfect world I'd like to get one
> of these, new, for about $500 - $1000 tops but that's not going to happen
> most likely. Anyway, what would be ideal is to find someone (a company)
> which restores to "new" status these machines that I can buy for much less.
> Is there a company which you would recommend ?
>
> As I'm kinda unfamiliar with the features of these machines I'd like to ask
> which machine would be recommended to act like a normal 3 head two track
> open reel recorder, 7" reels, 7 1/2 ips, 1/4" or xlr mic inputs, trims, rca
> ins and outs etc ........ Something that can replicate the functions and
> features of some of the popular full sized "prosumer" machines available in
> the 70's, 80's etc ....... Also, is a FULL track machine available ?

Hmmm - I think the Nagra 3, sitting ten feet from me is full track mono. It's
not mint but I've replaced the belts at least !

If you'll pay me thousands - you can have it ! ;-)

I had a Uher 4000 ( Report L ) once too. It was *stolen* when my flat was
burgled - v. sad esp since few ppl would value it. More so since I had 'rebuilt'
it - replacing the usual parts that get worn. Much smaller. Nice kit - good
results. It was standard issue for BBC reporters at one time.


Graham

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:418DF28C.D7645FBD@hotmail.com...
> Daniel wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've been into open reel recorders for a couple of years now, but it's
> > getting particularly hard to log these 50 lb monsters around. I love the
> > sound of these but would like to find something I could take with me.
I've
> > read a bit about Nagra and Uher (Uher from mostly Scott Dorsey posts)
but
> > still have some questions: I know that Nagra is still available new but
feel
> > (and fear) these would go for several thousand and I'd prefer not to go
that
> > route. I know Nagra sells on eBay but it's a bit risky that way. Same
with
> > Uher. Are Uhers still available new ? In a perfect world I'd like to get
one
> > of these, new, for about $500 - $1000 tops but that's not going to
happen
> > most likely. Anyway, what would be ideal is to find someone (a company)
> > which restores to "new" status these machines that I can buy for much
less.
> > Is there a company which you would recommend ?
> >
> > As I'm kinda unfamiliar with the features of these machines I'd like to
ask
> > which machine would be recommended to act like a normal 3 head two track
> > open reel recorder, 7" reels, 7 1/2 ips, 1/4" or xlr mic inputs, trims,
rca
> > ins and outs etc ........ Something that can replicate the functions and
> > features of some of the popular full sized "prosumer" machines available
in
> > the 70's, 80's etc ....... Also, is a FULL track machine available ?
>
> Hmmm - I think the Nagra 3, sitting ten feet from me is full track mono.
It's
> not mint but I've replaced the belts at least !

Gimmie!! )

>
> If you'll pay me thousands - you can have it ! ;-)

(((


>
> I had a Uher 4000 ( Report L ) once too. It was *stolen* when my flat was
> burgled - v. sad esp since few ppl would value it. More so since I had
'rebuilt'
> it - replacing the usual parts that get worn. Much smaller. Nice kit -
good
> results. It was standard issue for BBC reporters at one time.


Damn shame ... sorry about that .... (


>
>
> Graham
>
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:

> "Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:418DF28C.D7645FBD@hotmail.com...
>
> > Hmmm - I think the Nagra 3, sitting ten feet from me is full track mono.
> It's
> > not mint but I've replaced the belts at least !
>
> Gimmie!! )
>
> >
> > If you'll pay me thousands - you can have it ! ;-)
>
> (((

Ok - offer a sensible sum and it's yours.

More than happy to send you pics etc. It's well used but functional. The odd
dent in the robust chassis simply validates its professional status. I replaced
some of the rubber transport bits a few years back.

To be honest - it'll no doubt impress ppl who you can tell ' this used to be
*the* location tape recorder ' more than anything.

Maybe it deserves to be more of a museum item than anything ? A tribute to the
day when stuff was stunningly engineered.

Graham

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Ok - offer a sensible sum and it's yours.
>
>More than happy to send you pics etc. It's well used but functional. The odd
>dent in the robust chassis simply validates its professional status. I replaced
>some of the rubber transport bits a few years back.
>
>To be honest - it'll no doubt impress ppl who you can tell ' this used to be
>*the* location tape recorder ' more than anything.

I will say that the Nagra III is a great-sounding machine, and I have one
and still use it occasionally.

BUT, it's all germanium inside, and some of the transistors are now getting
to be hard to get. It is important to make sure the thing has clean capacitors
in there, because the last thing you want is one of them to go leaky and take
out a transistor that you can't replace easily. For the most part, the original
caps are very solid and reliable military types, but they are getting on in age.

Also, the bias oscillator isn't very powerful.... it will not bias up Ampex
406 even on the top tap. It'll handle 641 without any problem at all, but
who knows how long 641 will still be available. Until recently, it was very
common to make resistor or capacitor changes to get just a tiny bit more bias
out of it, so the top tap would bias BASF 468 up perfectly. This was a great
sounding combination, but now BASF tapes are out of production.

>Maybe it deserves to be more of a museum item than anything ? A tribute to the
>day when stuff was stunningly engineered.

Definitely not. It deserves to keep recording. It sounds much too good to
be left on a shelf and just looked at.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ugjjd.139753$Pl.70158@pd7tw1no> sivlee@NOSPAMyahoo.com writes:

> I've been into open reel recorders for a couple of years now, but it's
> getting particularly hard to log these 50 lb monsters around. I love the
> sound of these but would like to find something I could take with me. I've
> read a bit about Nagra and Uher (Uher from mostly Scott Dorsey posts) but
> still have some questions:

Time to fall out of love. The thing that makes me say that is:
> As I'm kinda unfamiliar with the features of these machines

If you're kinda unfamiliar with the features of these machines, I
suspect that you're very unfamiliar with the internal workings of
them, and unless you have a competent repair technician located
conveniently to you, and quite a bit of money to put into maintenance,
you'd best leave them alone. They both require specialized knowledge
to keep in good running shape, and they aren't worth a hoot if they
aren't in top shape.

> I know that Nagra is still available new but feel
> (and fear) these would go for several thousand and I'd prefer not to go that
> route.

I believe that Nagra only makes digital recorders now, and yes, they
do go for several thousand dollars, just like they always did. Used
Nagra IVs are a pretty good bargain, but one in good shape, while
sellling for a fraction of its new cost, is still pretty expensive.
And unless you have an opportunity to have it inspected from an expert
(or buy it from one - who WILL know its value) you never know what
you're going to get.

> Anyway, what would be ideal is to find someone (a company)
> which restores to "new" status these machines that I can buy for much less.
> Is there a company which you would recommend ?

Dan Dugan Sound in the San Francisco area and Vark Audio in the
Washington DC area. They've been servicing Nagras for a long time and
have the experience, documentation, tools (you need a special wrench
to align the heads) and parts to put it in top shape. But it won't be
cheap.

> which machine would be recommended to act like a normal 3 head two track
> open reel recorder, 7" reels, 7 1/2 ips, 1/4" or xlr mic inputs, trims, rca
> ins and outs etc ........ Something that can replicate the functions and
> features of some of the popular full sized "prosumer" machines available in
> the 70's, 80's etc ....... Also, is a FULL track machine available ?

The Nagra IVS would be good. The III (older) is full track, as is the
E (the cheap model, 7-1/2 IPS only) and the IVL. None of them have RCA
connectors, and none of them have mic preamp trims (though I've never
found them to be necessary). The III has a male connector for the mic
input. The line outputs are on expensive and hard-to-find Tuchel
connectors, except on the III, where they're banana jacks.

You need to find someone who has one and look it over thoroughly to
get familiar with what it does and how it does it.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chris Hornbeck <chrishornbeckremovethis@att.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 06:28:42 GMT, "Daniel" <sivlee@NOSPAMyahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>I have a beautiful little Uher 4200 around here needing a home
>and complete refurb. To a good home only,

Report-L, Report-IC, or Report-Monitor with the round meters?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <17gto0parbhri5q7ofjcfvbhorspmh9e1c@4ax.com>,
>On 7 Nov 2004 18:57:33 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
>>>I have a beautiful little Uher 4200 around here needing a home
>>>and complete refurb. To a good home only,
>>
>>Report-L, Report-IC, or Report-Monitor with the round meters?
>
>It says "Report Stereo", takes 5" reels and looks (without any
>disassembly) like half track. Rectangular horizontal-travel meters.

That's an original model. It's half-track (the 4400 is the quarter
track version), and I might have a manual for it. I will have to
look. Saul Mineroff Electronics should still stock belt kits for these
machines. A big worry on those is the three-phase oscillator which
drives the motor at constant speed, which occasionally gets in trouble
especially with bad caps, and causes high flutter. They aren't hard to
work on at all, though.

However, this is a two-head machine. It's optimized for good recording
and not for playback and alignment is a real pain in the neck.

>Ni-cad battery pack had not leaked(!), and can also accept D cells.
>Leather case and strap. Really pretty, but of no real use to me.

You sure? I think it takes C cells. I may have an extra outboard power
supply for these.

>You'll have to tell me how to determine its rated speed - never
>tried to run it. You want it?

7 1/2, 3 3/4, 1 7/8 and 15/16 ips. That 15/16 ips made them very popular
with the spook and law enforcement types. Put quarter mil tape in there
and you can leave it concealed for a good long time.

I do not want it. I am trying very hard to cut down.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
> I believe that Nagra only makes digital recorders now, and yes, they
> do go for several thousand dollars, just like they always did.

I asked a booth attendant at AES what happened to the Nagra IVs, since
they didn't have any tape decks for display at their booth. they guy
replied (paraphrased) "we have a warehouse full of them; nobody has been
buying them since the Nagra V came out."

I'm crossing my fingers for a fire sale. (:

--
Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier@poofygoof.com
"someday the industry will have throbbing frontal lobes and will be able
to write provably correct software. also, I want a pony." -- Zach Brown

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
news:1gmvkzk.1818mk71wne8uyN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> > Almost any of the film sound places will sell you a refurbished Nagra
for
> > a reasonable price. I can recommend Dan Dugan Sound Design for one.
You
> > can pick up a mono Nagra III for well under your price range, and you
can
> > probably get an IV in the top end of your price range, although a 4.2 is
> > pushing it and you won't get timecode.
>
> Seconding this as Dan Dugan is a top notch guy.

Alright, thanks! )

~Daniel

>
> --
> ha

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1099838549k@trad...
>
> In article <ugjjd.139753$Pl.70158@pd7tw1no> sivlee@NOSPAMyahoo.com writes:
>
> > I've been into open reel recorders for a couple of years now, but it's
> > getting particularly hard to log these 50 lb monsters around. I love the
> > sound of these but would like to find something I could take with me.
I've
> > read a bit about Nagra and Uher (Uher from mostly Scott Dorsey posts)
but
> > still have some questions:
>
> Time to fall out of love. The thing that makes me say that is:
> > As I'm kinda unfamiliar with the features of these machines
>
> If you're kinda unfamiliar with the features of these machines, I
> suspect that you're very unfamiliar with the internal workings of
> them, and unless you have a competent repair technician located
> conveniently to you, and quite a bit of money to put into maintenance,
> you'd best leave them alone. They both require specialized knowledge
> to keep in good running shape, and they aren't worth a hoot if they
> aren't in top shape.
>
> > I know that Nagra is still available new but feel
> > (and fear) these would go for several thousand and I'd prefer not to go
that
> > route.
>
> I believe that Nagra only makes digital recorders now, and yes, they
> do go for several thousand dollars, just like they always did. Used
> Nagra IVs are a pretty good bargain, but one in good shape, while
> sellling for a fraction of its new cost, is still pretty expensive.
> And unless you have an opportunity to have it inspected from an expert
> (or buy it from one - who WILL know its value) you never know what
> you're going to get.
>
> > Anyway, what would be ideal is to find someone (a company)
> > which restores to "new" status these machines that I can buy for much
less.
> > Is there a company which you would recommend ?
>
> Dan Dugan Sound in the San Francisco area and Vark Audio in the
> Washington DC area. They've been servicing Nagras for a long time and
> have the experience, documentation, tools (you need a special wrench
> to align the heads) and parts to put it in top shape. But it won't be
> cheap.
>
> > which machine would be recommended to act like a normal 3 head two track
> > open reel recorder, 7" reels, 7 1/2 ips, 1/4" or xlr mic inputs, trims,
rca
> > ins and outs etc ........ Something that can replicate the functions and
> > features of some of the popular full sized "prosumer" machines available
in
> > the 70's, 80's etc ....... Also, is a FULL track machine available ?
>
> The Nagra IVS would be good. The III (older) is full track, as is the
> E (the cheap model, 7-1/2 IPS only) and the IVL. None of them have RCA
> connectors, and none of them have mic preamp trims (though I've never
> found them to be necessary). The III has a male connector for the mic
> input. The line outputs are on expensive and hard-to-find Tuchel
> connectors, except on the III, where they're banana jacks.
>
> You need to find someone who has one and look it over thoroughly to
> get familiar with what it does and how it does it.

Thanks for the good info Mike. Yeah, that's why I'd like to buy from someone
like Dan Dugan Sound, for example, to know I'm getting somethin' good etc
.....

The one thing that still puzzles me, and I ask this 'cause there's no way in
hell I'll find someone locally that can show me the workings of the Nagra,
is HOW the Nagra would do what I want it to do .... Rather than go on and on
about this, I'd like to offer the following scenario: I have a dynamic RE15
mic with an XLR connector cable (with 1/4" adapter if needed). I also have
headphones. I wish to record voice and piano, for example, with the one
mic. I wish to have control over the mic preamp gain (to lower or increase
it) and also to have headphone vol control. When I have done recording, I
wish to transfer the sound to my pc or cd recorder. Are all those things
possible with what I already have ?

Thanks!

Daniel


>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <FJGjd.147982$Pl.51162@pd7tw1no> sivlee@NOSPAMyahoo.com writes:

> .... Rather than go on and on
> about this, I'd like to offer the following scenario: I have a dynamic RE15
> mic with an XLR connector cable (with 1/4" adapter if needed). I also have
> headphones. I wish to record voice and piano, for example, with the one
> mic. I wish to have control over the mic preamp gain (to lower or increase
> it) and also to have headphone vol control. When I have done recording, I
> wish to transfer the sound to my pc or cd recorder. Are all those things
> possible with what I already have ?

The hardest job you'll have is finding a place to put the RE15 so as
to get a well balanced recording of your piano, your voice, and the
room ambience (which affects both). Once you do that, which will take
quite a bit of experimentation, you're good.

The Nagra doesn't have an independent mic preamp gain control, but the
record level control and meter will keep you safe. I haven't run into
anything I'd want to be in the same room with that caused a Nagra to
clip. As I recall, there are fixed steps for headphone volume, but
you'll be able to find something comfortable.

Since the line output of a Nagra isn't on a common audio connector,
you'll need an adapter to connect the playback output to your PC or CD
recorder, but exactly what you need will depend on which recorder you
buy. If you get one from Dan Dugan or an equivalent and tell him that
you want an adapter to connect the output to, say, an RCA jack, or an
XLR, or 1/4" jack, whatever your preference, he'll be able to fix you
up.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Can you use any Nagras as an analog mixdown deck? I know 1/4" tape 15 ips is a
standard for stereo mix. Is this something a Nagra is capable of and would
sound good at? I would certainly be smaller than a studer or otari, etc.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <20041109043907.00480.00000338@mb-m17.aol.com>,
HenryShap <henryshap@aol.com> wrote:
>Can you use any Nagras as an analog mixdown deck? I know 1/4" tape 15 ips is a
>standard for stereo mix. Is this something a Nagra is capable of and would
>sound good at? I would certainly be smaller than a studer or otari, etc.

Sure. If you want something that you can carry with you when you go into
a studio that doesn't have a 1/4" deck, it would be perfectly reasonable.

The downsides: you don't get 10" reels without an outboard gadget that is
rare expensive and heavy to lug around. And I don't know what the maximum
output level is on the Nagra.... I don't know if you could make GP9 work on
an IV or a 4.2. But if you can live with a 7" reel, it's a nice sounding
machine and very compact.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On or about Mon, 08 Nov 2004 08:22:09 -0000, Aaron J. Grier allegedly
wrote:

> Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
> > I believe that Nagra only makes digital recorders now, and yes, they
> > do go for several thousand dollars, just like they always did.
>
> I asked a booth attendant at AES what happened to the Nagra IVs, since
> they didn't have any tape decks for display at their booth. they guy
> replied (paraphrased) "we have a warehouse full of them; nobody has been
> buying them since the Nagra V came out."

That kind of makes sense. Their web site is (or was recently) still
advertising the Nagra IV and Nagra E, but I can't imagine they're selling
too many.

Noel Bachelor noelbachelorAT(From:_domain)
Language Recordings Inc (Darwin Australia)

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Daniel" <sivlee@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2Vmjd.140838$%k.30757@pd7tw2no...
> "TonyP" <TonyP@optus.net.com.au> wrote in message
> news:418de777$0$11757$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > As a past user of a Nagra, I have to wonder why you would bother these
> days.
> > Even Nagra has gone digital.

> Thanks but it doesn't necessarily mean that when someone's "gone digital"
> that it's "better" .... Nagra's just going where the market is .... and
once
> again, "market" doesn't necessarily dictate what's good or not ....

The market for Nagra recorders is not as ill informed as the average
consumer at least.

> That "Nagra", or whom-ever else, has "gone digital" is least of my
concerns
> and in no way does it influence my decission one way or another ....
> I know what I prefer and what I'm comfortable with and thus my original
> question ....

I have no problem with that, but I still wonder :-)

TonyP.