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Is/Will DAT still being (or continue to be) used in pro st..

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Anonymous
November 12, 2004 8:11:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Sorry for my lame question, but I'd like to hear comments from
engineers working at professional studios.

Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony
..... do you think this new format will be a main stream in the
recording industry??

Thanks in advance,

MIT

More about : dat continue pro

Anonymous
November 12, 2004 8:11:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

MIT <mit@ycon.com> wrote:
> Sorry for my lame question, but I'd like to hear comments from
> engineers working at professional studios.

> Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony
> .... do you think this new format will be a main stream in the
> recording industry??

I am extremely unprofessional. I still use my DAT a lot. But now only
for location recording. I tend to mix to standalone CDR. But mostly
since CDRs cost one tenth what DATs cost.

Rob R.
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 8:11:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:11:12 -0500, MIT wrote
(in article <vch7p09gqjhflfo9gt2jqfbggifh95lrvr@4ax.com>):

> Sorry for my lame question, but I'd like to hear comments from
> engineers working at professional studios.
>
> Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony
> .... do you think this new format will be a main stream in the
> recording industry??
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> MIT

I'd not buy another new one.

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Related resources
November 12, 2004 8:11:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

MIT wrote:

> Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony
> ..... do you think this new format will be a main stream in the
> recording industry??

Mini-Disc never has, nor will it ever, have a place in the recording
industry.

--
Eric

www.Raw-Tracks.com
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 8:11:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

MIT <mit@ycon.com> wrote:
>Sorry for my lame question, but I'd like to hear comments from
>engineers working at professional studios.

I don't know. I'll say that I don't expect to get rid of the DAT decks
any time soon, but that CD-R has become much more common for interchange.

One of the places I occasionally deal with for editing and replication
will no longer accept DAT. They say that I am the only guy sending them
DAT tapes still and when their machine broke they didn't think it was worth
it just for one customer.

One of the other places I occasionally deal with for somewhat higher grade
mastering work, however, will still take PCM-1630 tapes. And while I won't
predict how long DAT will last, I am sure it will outlast 1630 by a good
while.

>Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony
>.... do you think this new format will be a main stream in the
>recording industry??

I doubt it, because it doesn't really offer any advantages over any of the
other dozens of wide-word media out there. But then, DAT was never intended
as a pro audio format; it was a consumer format that never got adopted in
the consumer world and got out of hand.

But then, I'm still using 1/4" as much as anything else today.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 8:11:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> MIT wrote...
>> Sorry for my lame question, but I'd like to hear comments from
>> engineers working at professional studios.
>>
>> Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format
>> from Sony .... do you think this new format will be a main stream
>> in the recording industry??

Seems dubious that a compressed format would become a
mainstream recording method. Particularly, a proprietary one.

"Ty Ford" wrote ...
> I'd not buy another new one. [DAT]

It won't be too long before you won't have a choice.
Maybe that day is already here?
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 10:14:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <vch7p09gqjhflfo9gt2jqfbggifh95lrvr@4ax.com> mit@ycon.com writes:

> Sorry for my lame question, but I'd like to hear comments from
> engineers working at professional studios.

It all depends on the engineer and what the DAT is used for. Most
mastering houses still take DATs, and error rates are often lower than
CD-Rs. Still, as a 16-bit format (TASCAM's 24-bit DAT format never
caught on) it's limited to certain projects.

> Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony
> .... do you think this new format will be a main stream in the
> recording industry??

Never. Perhaps it will catch on among the hobbyist concert recording
crowd, and there may be some professional applications in broadcast,
but I can't see professional studios using this format.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 10:37:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <vbqdnVZ8guW-jQncRVn-uQ@comcast.com>,
Ty Ford <tyreeford@comcast.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:11:12 -0500, MIT wrote
> (in article <vch7p09gqjhflfo9gt2jqfbggifh95lrvr@4ax.com>):
>
> > Sorry for my lame question, but I'd like to hear comments from
> > engineers working at professional studios.
> >
> > Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony
> > .... do you think this new format will be a main stream in the
> > recording industry??
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > MIT
>
> I'd not buy another new one.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>

I would buy another Panasonic SV-3800 if they were still in production, but
we've switched to CD-R for most day-to-day use. I still prefer DATS for
live->2T recordings.

I would expect any new recording format would need to be better than
48kHz/16-bit to be accepted widely.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 1:39:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1100214883k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>In article <vch7p09gqjhflfo9gt2jqfbggifh95lrvr@4ax.com> mit@ycon.com writes:
>
>> Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony
>> .... do you think this new format will be a main stream in the
>> recording industry??
>
>Never. Perhaps it will catch on among the hobbyist concert recording
>crowd, and there may be some professional applications in broadcast,
>but I can't see professional studios using this format.

BUT, I will say that if it had come out in 1995 or so, it might have had
a good chance for being adopted as a studio format, in much the way that
DAT did.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
November 12, 2004 5:39:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> writes:
>>> Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format
>>> from Sony .... do you think this new format will be a main stream
>>> in the recording industry??

>Seems dubious that a compressed format would become a
>mainstream recording method. Particularly, a proprietary one.

I was under the impression that the Hi-MD was NOT a compressed
nor a proprietary format. I thought it was capable of 16bit
44.1kz Wav files. Is this not so?
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 5:39:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"georgeh" wrote ...
> "Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> writes:
>>>> Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format
>>>> from Sony .... do you think this new format will be a main stream
>>>> in the recording industry??
>
>>Seems dubious that a compressed format would become a
>>mainstream recording method. Particularly, a proprietary one.
>
> I was under the impression that the Hi-MD was NOT a compressed
> nor a proprietary format. I thought it was capable of 16bit
> 44.1kz Wav files. Is this not so?

That is one available mode. But even writing uncompressed
"WAV files", you are still dealing with the proprietary (read:
expensive) media. You can buy a whole stack of CD-R/W (or
an even bigger stack of CD-R) discs for the price of a single
Hi-MD disc.

For whatever reason, MD never caught on in the US to the same
degree as in other parts of the planet. Anybody remember the
"Elcassette"? I can't look at MD without being reminded of
that short-lived format.
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Elcassette

MD has size and portability going for it, but those features don't
seem particularly important in professional use except for some
niche applications.
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 5:39:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cn2hud$2fe8$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu>,
georgeh <georgeh@gjhsun.cl.msu.edu> wrote:
>"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> writes:
>>>> Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format
>>>> from Sony .... do you think this new format will be a main stream
>>>> in the recording industry??
>
>>Seems dubious that a compressed format would become a
>>mainstream recording method. Particularly, a proprietary one.
>
>I was under the impression that the Hi-MD was NOT a compressed
>nor a proprietary format. I thought it was capable of 16bit
>44.1kz Wav files. Is this not so?

Yes, but so are dozens of other formats out there now, all of which are
well-established. Hi-MD is nice enough, but it doesn't do anything that
the other formats do. It's too little and too late.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 8:51:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <jay-4142C9.07374112112004@news.stanford.edu>,
jay@ccrma.stanford.edu says...
> I would buy another Panasonic SV-3800 if they were still in production, but
> we've switched to CD-R for most day-to-day use.

I have one that I had refurbished a couple of years ago. I used it to
transfer a dozen DATs to my computer and it has sat idle since. How
much do you think I could get for it? I certainly don't anticipate ever
needing it again.

--
Nick D.
http://ironia.net
http://www.cultv.com
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 8:51:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <MPG.1bfec258a98154e498969d@news.optonline.net>,
Nick D. <njd@NOSPAMcultv.com> wrote:

> In article <jay-4142C9.07374112112004@news.stanford.edu>,
> jay@ccrma.stanford.edu says...
> > I would buy another Panasonic SV-3800 if they were still in production, but
> > we've switched to CD-R for most day-to-day use.
>
> I have one that I had refurbished a couple of years ago. I used it to
> transfer a dozen DATs to my computer and it has sat idle since. How
> much do you think I could get for it? I certainly don't anticipate ever
> needing it again.


They're going for $2-300 US on E-bay. That's pretty low.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 9:05:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message news:cn2lo6$b0n$1@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <cn2hud$2fe8$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu>,
> georgeh <georgeh@gjhsun.cl.msu.edu> wrote:
> >"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> writes:
> >>>> Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format
> >>>> from Sony .... do you think this new format will be a main stream
> >>>> in the recording industry??
> >
> >>Seems dubious that a compressed format would become a
> >>mainstream recording method. Particularly, a proprietary one.
> >
> >I was under the impression that the Hi-MD was NOT a compressed
> >nor a proprietary format. I thought it was capable of 16bit
> >44.1kz Wav files. Is this not so?
>
> Yes, but so are dozens of other formats out there now, all of which are
> well-established. Hi-MD is nice enough, but it doesn't do anything that
> the other formats do. It's too little and too late.


And even thought it's 16/44.1.... it's still ATRAC, no?
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 9:05:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <VX6ld.15$m36.3@trnddc02>,
David Morgan \(MAMS\) <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote:
>
>"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message news:cn2lo6$b0n$1@panix2.panix.com...
>> In article <cn2hud$2fe8$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu>,
>> georgeh <georgeh@gjhsun.cl.msu.edu> wrote:
>> >"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> writes:
>> >>>> Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format
>> >>>> from Sony .... do you think this new format will be a main stream
>> >>>> in the recording industry??
>> >
>> >>Seems dubious that a compressed format would become a
>> >>mainstream recording method. Particularly, a proprietary one.
>> >
>> >I was under the impression that the Hi-MD was NOT a compressed
>> >nor a proprietary format. I thought it was capable of 16bit
>> >44.1kz Wav files. Is this not so?
>>
>> Yes, but so are dozens of other formats out there now, all of which are
>> well-established. Hi-MD is nice enough, but it doesn't do anything that
>> the other formats do. It's too little and too late.
>
>And even thought it's 16/44.1.... it's still ATRAC, no?

Nope, no ATRAC. Which required a lot of engineering... the real problem
with MD was not that the disc couldn't hold much data, but that the read
and write times were too slow to stream 16/44.1 data in realtime. It took
a considerable improvement in data transfer rate for uncompressed transfer
to be possible. If that improvement had happened a decade ago, MD might have
seen some real popularity as a semi-pro and even a professional interchange
format. It didn't.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 9:24:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"MIT" <mit@ycon.com> wrote in message news:vch7p09gqjhflfo9gt2jqfbggifh95lrvr@4ax.com...
> Sorry for my lame question, but I'd like to hear comments from
> engineers working at professional studios.

There are two of them at every place I work... usually Tascams or
Panasonics... including two DA-30 Mk-II sitting in the floor by my
editing station at home.

I use one of them as a AD/DA convertor to a digital only I/O card,
and the other to do live recordings. I still like some sort of tape as
a backup to *anything* I record on to a computer or hard drive.

Except for live work, they aren't as heavily used as they were 15
years ago, but abandoning them would be like throwing away all
of your 1/4" and 1/2" tape machines because they're out of style.
It's something every pro studio should have simply because of the
massive volume of work that has been done on them in the past.

> Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony
> .... do you think this new format will be a main stream in the
> recording industry??

It's used in cheaper jingle or voice-over production houses, some radio
stations, a lot of low quality in-house audio for video, and some muzak
distribution centers. The only reason there's an MD in any studio that I
am working at, is because some people want roughs playable on MD
(apparently a 'phase' that's waning) or ocassionally people will bring in
recordings done at home or live using MD. I also see them a lot in churches
being used to replace cassettes for archiving the entire service.

I can't see it ever being a 'staple' in the pro end of the business.

> Thanks in advance,
>
> MIT

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s.com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 11:37:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cn2upp$6nv$1@panix2.panix.com> kludge@panix.com writes:

> .. the real problem
> with MD was not that the disc couldn't hold much data, but that the read
> and write times were too slow to stream 16/44.1 data in realtime.

Isn't this the same problem with DVD that requires data compression
when playing surround audio?

DVD is the fastest selling home electronics product. Doing
considerably better than the Minidisk, I think.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 9:10:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"MIT" <mit@ycon.com> wrote in message
news:vch7p09gqjhflfo9gt2jqfbggifh95lrvr@4ax.com...
> Sorry for my lame question, but I'd like to hear comments from
> engineers working at professional studios.

DAT's days have been seriously numbered for around five years. The
availability of transport parts is drying up rapidly and the quality of all
but one brand of tape stock (Fuji) has taken a serious nose-dive. Combine
this with the bottom falling out of the sales for computer backup and you've
got a format that at best is about to become pretty expensive and at worst
there will no longer be blank tape stock available for.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 10:01:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Bob Olhsson" <olh@hyperback.com> wrote in message news:nzhld.894554$Gx4.68724@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "MIT" <mit@ycon.com> wrote in message
> news:vch7p09gqjhflfo9gt2jqfbggifh95lrvr@4ax.com...
> > Sorry for my lame question, but I'd like to hear comments from
> > engineers working at professional studios.
>
> DAT's days have been seriously numbered for around five years. The
> availability of transport parts is drying up rapidly and the quality of all
> but one brand of tape stock (Fuji) has taken a serious nose-dive. Combine
> this with the bottom falling out of the sales for computer backup and you've
> got a format that at best is about to become pretty expensive and at worst
> there will no longer be blank tape stock available for.
>
> --
> Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
> Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
> Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
> 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com


The part about the tape stock.... do you really think it's going kaput?


TIA,

DM
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 12:16:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David Morgan \(MAMS\) <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote:
>"Bob Olhsson" <olh@hyperback.com> wrote in message news:nzhld.894554$Gx4.68724@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> DAT's days have been seriously numbered for around five years. The
>> availability of transport parts is drying up rapidly and the quality of all
>> but one brand of tape stock (Fuji) has taken a serious nose-dive. Combine
>> this with the bottom falling out of the sales for computer backup and you've
>> got a format that at best is about to become pretty expensive and at worst
>> there will no longer be blank tape stock available for.
>>
>
>The part about the tape stock.... do you really think it's going kaput?

Yes, but remember there are really only a couple of companies making the
metal particle media anyway, just a lot that are repackaging and rebadging
them. As long as one company keeps making good stuff, we're fine.

There have recently been a lot of bad DAT tapes on the market, it's true.
I don't think that's a matter of "going kaput" since I recall there always
being a problem with media quality. Thank God that DIC is at least gone.

But it's true that the DDS tapes for computer use were the primary market,
and audio DAT was a comparative trickle in sales. And the DDS market has
dropped to zero now. This is going to affect the audio market severely.

I still have six cases of KAO-branded DDS tape in the closet, and I figure
that will hold me for a good while. But nothing lasts forever.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 2:11:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <nzhld.894554$Gx4.68724@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> olh@hyperback.com writes:

> DAT's days have been seriously numbered for around five years.

Agreed. My remote recording fun has been compromised by a portable DAT
that needs transport parts, and I can't bring myself to spend the $500
or so on it to get it fixed from donor parts.

> the quality of all
> but one brand of tape stock (Fuji) has taken a serious nose-dive. Combine
> this with the bottom falling out of the sales for computer backup and you've
> got a format that at best is about to become pretty expensive and at worst
> there will no longer be blank tape stock available for.

Clearly it's not a good format to use for new recordings, but it may
be worth preserving working machines for a while rather than junking
them because there are 10-15 years of DAT "master" recordings that
will need to be played some time.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 2:24:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cn54v5$676$1@panix2.panix.com...

> But it's true that the DDS tapes for computer use were the primary market,
> and audio DAT was a comparative trickle in sales. And the DDS market has
> dropped to zero now.

Out of curiosity, what has replaced DDS tapes for computer use?

Hal Laurent
Baltimore
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 4:02:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hal Laurent <laurent@charm.net> wrote:
>"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
>news:cn54v5$676$1@panix2.panix.com...
>
>> But it's true that the DDS tapes for computer use were the primary market,
>> and audio DAT was a comparative trickle in sales. And the DDS market has
>> dropped to zero now.
>
>Out of curiosity, what has replaced DDS tapes for computer use?

CD-R and DVD-R on the low end, DLP on the high end.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 5:46:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <Byqld.2$5G4.1215@news.abs.net>,
"Hal Laurent" <laurent@charm.net> wrote:

> Out of curiosity, what has replaced DDS tapes for computer use?

Exabyte's VXA format for one. Very robust and up to 4X the capacity of
DDS4. http://vxa.com/

Hard drives have become so cheap that some people just buy extra drives
and use them for backing up. Hard drive stiction (stuck read head) makes
this a non-viable strategy for archiving. Putting a hard drive on the
shelf for a couple of years increases the likelihood that the read heads
will get stuck.
Anonymous
November 15, 2004 8:54:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Pat Janes" <not@bloody.likely.invalid> wrote in message
news:not-CBEBAE.14464213112004@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
>... Hard drive stiction (stuck read head) makes
> this a non-viable strategy for archiving. Putting a hard drive on the
> shelf for a couple of years increases the likelihood that the read heads
> will get stuck.

They claim that the new fluid bearing drives won't have this problem.

We'll see but if it's true, that could be the end of tape at remotely
reasonable prices.
--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
Anonymous
November 15, 2004 11:49:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message news:<8d7ld.428$h15.155@trnddc07>...
> "MIT" <mit@ycon.com> wrote in message news:vch7p09gqjhflfo9gt2jqfbggifh95lrvr@4ax.com...
> > Sorry for my lame question, but I'd like to hear comments from
> > engineers working at professional studios.
>
> There are two of them at every place I work... usually Tascams or
> Panasonics... including two DA-30 Mk-II sitting in the floor by my
> editing station at home.
>
> I use one of them as a AD/DA convertor to a digital only I/O card,
> and the other to do live recordings. I still like some sort of tape as
> a backup to *anything* I record on to a computer or hard drive.
>
> Except for live work, they aren't as heavily used as they were 15
> years ago, but abandoning them would be like throwing away all
> of your 1/4" and 1/2" tape machines because they're out of style.
> It's something every pro studio should have simply because of the
> massive volume of work that has been done on them in the past.
>
> > Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony
> > .... do you think this new format will be a main stream in the
> > recording industry??
>
> It's used in cheaper jingle or voice-over production houses, some radio
> stations, a lot of low quality in-house audio for video, and some muzak
> distribution centers. The only reason there's an MD in any studio that I
> am working at, is because some people want roughs playable on MD
> (apparently a 'phase' that's waning) or ocassionally people will bring in
> recordings done at home or live using MD. I also see them a lot in churches
> being used to replace cassettes for archiving the entire service.
>
> I can't see it ever being a 'staple' in the pro end of the business.
>
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > MIT

Yeah I agree, I still have my DA-30 and it works fine. I usually use
outboard converters, or do digital transfers to it but I still use it.

I don't use it a lot, but given what used ones sell for on Ebay (under
$200) it just doesn't seem worth abandoning it.

Hell I'm looking at getting another cassette deck, just to make sure
I've got that covered....

Analogeezer
Anonymous
November 16, 2004 9:22:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Rob Reedijk <reedijk@hera.med.utoronto.ca> wrote in message news:<cn0ukg$239$1@news1.chem.utoronto.ca>...
> MIT <mit@ycon.com> wrote:
> > Sorry for my lame question, but I'd like to hear comments from
> > engineers working at professional studios.
>
> > Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony
> > .... do you think this new format will be a main stream in the
> > recording industry??
>
> I am extremely unprofessional. I still use my DAT a lot. But now only
> for location recording. I tend to mix to standalone CDR. But mostly
> since CDRs cost one tenth what DATs cost.
>
> Rob R.

I'm at the threshold of buying a DAT-record for cheap. My purpose is
to be able to record audio (voice) in my garage, and not to move my
entire computer. The problem is though to synchronise/mix the recorded
audio with the other tracks in my computer. What is the way to do this
with a two-track DAT-recorder? Anyone?

Greetings Pjeut.
Anonymous
November 16, 2004 10:32:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2004-11-11, MIT <mit@ycon.com> wrote:

> Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony

Are the discs still cheap as hell?

Do the portable players have spdif out, and/or is there a way to
take a sample-accurate copy of the recording off the disc (using a
PC or whatever?)
Anonymous
November 16, 2004 10:41:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2004-11-12, Richard Crowley <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

> That is one available mode. But even writing uncompressed
> "WAV files", you are still dealing with the proprietary (read:
> expensive) media. You can buy a whole stack of CD-R/W (or
> an even bigger stack of CD-R) discs for the price of a single
> Hi-MD disc.

Uh oh, really? The appeal of MD for me was the fact that I could buy
media for approx. $1/disc, and also that they were available in unlikely
places. I started using MD to record music practice, to a degree that
DAT had prohibited due to the high cost of the tapes.

However, I do have a big problem with being locked out of the digital
domain by Sony, on my OWN music. Yes, I realize I could move from the
consumer MD to a pro deck, but that just makes me madder -- in order to
overcome the thing that Sony did to make me hate them, I need to buy
something expensive from Sony. Ain't gonna happen in this lifetime.
Anonymous
November 16, 2004 10:42:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2004-11-12, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:

> If that improvement had happened a decade ago, MD might have
> seen some real popularity as a semi-pro and even a professional interchange
> format. It didn't.

Didn't get here in time, we see cheap solid state recorders on the
horizon. Moving parts are passe'.
Anonymous
November 16, 2004 5:53:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

MIT <mit@ycon.com> wrote:

>Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony
>.... do you think this new format will be a main stream in the
>recording industry??

Sony, in their inimitable way, crippled Hi-MD by making the Windows software
unable to upload from a recorder at USB 2.0 or Firewire rates, and using
their own file formats. And Mac OS is not supported.

In any case, Hi-MD is limited to roughly 90 minutes at 16/44.1. Why
bother when you can get the same on a solid state flash memory 1 GB SD
card, or more than 6 hours on a 4 GB Compact Flash card?


--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
moskowit@core-sound.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912
Anonymous
November 16, 2004 6:06:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz) writes:

> MIT <mit@ycon.com> wrote:
>
> >Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony
> >.... do you think this new format will be a main stream in the
> >recording industry??
>
> Sony, in their inimitable way, crippled Hi-MD by making the Windows software
> unable to upload from a recorder at USB 2.0 or Firewire rates, and using
> their own file formats. And Mac OS is not supported.
>
> In any case, Hi-MD is limited to roughly 90 minutes at 16/44.1. Why
> bother when you can get the same on a solid state flash memory 1 GB SD
> card, or more than 6 hours on a 4 GB Compact Flash card?
>
>
> --
> Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
> Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
> Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
> moskowit@core-sound.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

Dear Len,

A appreciate the benefits for your product, both the MicPre and the CF
recorder, but for some of us Minidisc is still the best option.

In particular, for $200-250USD you can get an HiMD that has 94 mins PCM
recording (or much longer in ATRAC) and a built in mic preamp with level
controls, all in one nice package that uses a single AA battery. That is
still hard to beat for concert and/or ambient recording.

By the way, I have considered your CF recorder, but I don't have the
time/energy to find the right PDA. Perhaps you should consider selling a
package.

Richard
Anonymous
November 16, 2004 6:50:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1bed6df3.0411160622.6c23bbb9@posting.google.com> p.e.visser@gemnop.nl writes:

> I'm at the threshold of buying a DAT-record for cheap. My purpose is
> to be able to record audio (voice) in my garage, and not to move my
> entire computer. The problem is though to synchronise/mix the recorded
> audio with the other tracks in my computer. What is the way to do this
> with a two-track DAT-recorder? Anyone?

I guess you want to record some things in the house, then record the
vocal in the garage, and then put them back together. This is not
simple. I'd suggest that for about the same price as a used DAT, you
can get a new 8-track hard disk recorder/mixer like the new TASCAM
DP-01 (http://www.tascam.com/Press/Releases/dp01.html), copy a
reference mix from your DAW to two tracks of that, take it to your
garage, record your vocals, and then if you want, move the tracks (in
sync using MIDI time code) back to your computer workstation.

Or you might find that it's just as easy to work on the TASCAM and
forget the computer.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
November 16, 2004 9:08:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Pjeut" <p.e.visser@gemnop.nl> wrote in message
news:1bed6df3.0411160622.6c23bbb9@posting.google.com...

> I'm at the threshold of buying a DAT-record for cheap. My purpose is
> to be able to record audio (voice) in my garage, and not to move my
> entire computer. The problem is though to synchronise/mix the recorded
> audio with the other tracks in my computer. What is the way to do this
> with a two-track DAT-recorder? Anyone?

Use some equivalent of a clapper. Record an impulse before the beginning of
your backing track (claves do well here) and, when you're overdubbing voice,
make sure your impulse also gets onto the vocal track. (If necessary, hold
your headphone up to the microphone.) Dub the DAT signal into the computer,
digitally, including the impulse. Slide the track so the impulse on the
vocal track lines up with the one on the backing track, and you should be
okay. Clock slippage might be a problem, but probably in a short song you'll
be fine.

An alternative, since you seem to be running audio out to the garage so you
can hear your backing track, is to run the DAT's digital output straight
back to the computer. 15 meters of 75-ohm video cable works fine for me.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
November 16, 2004 9:42:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Pjeut" <p.e.visser@gemnop.nl> wrote in message news:1bed6df3.0411160622.6c23bbb9@posting.google.com...
> Rob Reedijk <reedijk@hera.med.utoronto.ca> wrote in message news:<cn0ukg$239$1@news1.chem.utoronto.ca>...
> > MIT <mit@ycon.com> wrote:
> > > Sorry for my lame question, but I'd like to hear comments from
> > > engineers working at professional studios.
> >
> > > Also, let me hear your candid comments on Hi-Md, new format from Sony
> > > .... do you think this new format will be a main stream in the
> > > recording industry??
> >
> > I am extremely unprofessional. I still use my DAT a lot. But now only
> > for location recording. I tend to mix to standalone CDR. But mostly
> > since CDRs cost one tenth what DATs cost.
> >
> > Rob R.
>
> I'm at the threshold of buying a DAT-record for cheap. My purpose is
> to be able to record audio (voice) in my garage, and not to move my
> entire computer. The problem is though to synchronise/mix the recorded
> audio with the other tracks in my computer. What is the way to do this
> with a two-track DAT-recorder? Anyone?
>
> Greetings Pjeut.

Here's another possibility...

Run a mono mix of the music bed to one channel of the DAT and then do
your mono voice recording on the other. Drop both channels back into the
computer, lining up the audio track with the multitrack music bed, and then
mute it. The remaining channel with the vocal track should be in the pocket
if you slide the two tracks together when lining up to the original music.

Another way is to buy a used Time Code DAT... still upwards of $600 or so,
and that's still dependant on your software capabilities.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com
Anonymous
November 17, 2004 4:09:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<Mannr@uwaterloo.ca> wrote:

>In particular, for $200-250USD you can get an HiMD that has 94 mins PCM
>recording (or much longer in ATRAC) and a built in mic preamp with level
>controls, all in one nice package that uses a single AA battery. That is
>still hard to beat for concert and/or ambient recording.

True, unless you want 24-bit resolution and higher than 44.1 sample
rates, need true 48 VDC phantom power for better quality mics, need a
better mic pre than the noisy ones Sony and Sharp provide in their MD
recorders, or want a recorder that is supported by its manufacturer for
the long term instead of being a "throw away."

HiMD definitely has its place. PDAudio addresses a mroe professional
niche.

>By the way, I have considered your CF recorder, but I don't have the
>time/energy to find the right PDA. Perhaps you should consider selling a
>package.

I understand what you're saying, but in a way it's like asking
DigiDesign to sell ProTools with a laptop PC. It's not done because
PDAs (and PCs) are commodity items -- they evolve so quickly that their
sales are best left to the folks who do that best.

The HP iPAQ h2215 (or the identical h2210) are really good buys these days
(both under $225 on eBay). They'll do 24/96 with no sweat.

The new soon-to-be-released HP iPAQ h2700-series looks pretty fine, as
does the new Dell 624 MHz Axim X50v with 640x480 VGA color screen (under
$450 from Dell).



--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
moskowit@core-sound.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912
!