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Studer Mod

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Anonymous
November 11, 2004 10:39:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Any ideas about turning a studer A820 1" 8TR into a 1/2" 2TRK master
recorder? Is it just the heads that need changing? Or all the guides,
capstans rollers etc? What do heads go for these days?

thanks kindly

Rick Hollett

More about : studer mod

Anonymous
November 12, 2004 1:59:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

rick hollett <rhollett@nl.rogers.com> wrote:
>Any ideas about turning a studer A820 1" 8TR into a 1/2" 2TRK master
>recorder? Is it just the heads that need changing? Or all the guides,
>capstans rollers etc? What do heads go for these days?

All the guides will have to go, but I think you can keep the pinch roller
and capstan. Everything else touching the tape is going to have to be
replaced and I suspect some of it will have to be made up custom. If
anyone will do it, JRF Magnetics will.

1/2" 2-track is still a new format, and there aren't used heads out
there, so you are basically going to be paying whatever Flux charges
for brand new heads, which is a scary number.

On the other hand, 1/2" 4-track heads are a glut on the market and they
can't give them away. I got a box of them for the ATR-104 here that
may wind up as christmas tree ornaments.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 6:05:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You need to change the guides, pinch roller, tach roller, and reel hold downs
to 1/2". Heads of course. John French at JRF Magnetics would probably have
the heads and can do the conversion for you.
You can check with him on guides too but some things may have to come from
Studer and if still available, (a big if), it would be expensive. I think the
audio cards are fine. Talk to John about making it a 1" 2 track!! Would be
easier and sound awesome....
Related resources
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 10:07:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Many thanks for that. Right now it serves as a front end for my DP setup,
but I will check with JRF re: 1" 2 tr. Not a widely used(bad pun) format I
would assume.

Rick Hollett
"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cn1cea$alm$1@panix2.panix.com...
> rick hollett <rhollett@nl.rogers.com> wrote:
>>Any ideas about turning a studer A820 1" 8TR into a 1/2" 2TRK master
>>recorder? Is it just the heads that need changing? Or all the guides,
>>capstans rollers etc? What do heads go for these days?
>
> All the guides will have to go, but I think you can keep the pinch roller
> and capstan. Everything else touching the tape is going to have to be
> replaced and I suspect some of it will have to be made up custom. If
> anyone will do it, JRF Magnetics will.
>
> 1/2" 2-track is still a new format, and there aren't used heads out
> there, so you are basically going to be paying whatever Flux charges
> for brand new heads, which is a scary number.
>
> On the other hand, 1/2" 4-track heads are a glut on the market and they
> can't give them away. I got a box of them for the ATR-104 here that
> may wind up as christmas tree ornaments.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 1:38:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

rick hollett <rhollett@nl.rogers.com> wrote:
>Many thanks for that. Right now it serves as a front end for my DP setup,
>but I will check with JRF re: 1" 2 tr. Not a widely used(bad pun) format I
>would assume.

Not at all, but there are some mastering houses out there that are using it
so it's not _impossible_ as an interchange format.

1/2" 2-track has become pretty much standard as an interchange format these
days, but it's still quite rare to find used head stacks. Folks are still
in the process of converting the millions of 1/4" machines out there to 1/2"
and so the 1/2" stacks get grabbed up quickly.

So with either 1" or 1/2", you're stuck buying new heads.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
November 12, 2004 3:33:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cn0rea$ap8$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net> rhollett@nl.rogers.com writes:

> Any ideas about turning a studer A820 1" 8TR into a 1/2" 2TRK master
> recorder? Is it just the heads that need changing? Or all the guides,
> capstans rollers etc? What do heads go for these days?

Heads and guides for sure, but that's pretty expensive. You may have
to do some work on the electronics too. You're probalby talking around
$3,000 for a set of heads, mounted and ready to go.

Why stop at 1/2"? Why not make it a 1" 2-track? Or better, sell it to
someone who wants a nice analog 8-track and look for a 1/2" Ampex
ATR-100 to convert to two-track.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 2:18:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

PKAAUDIO wrote:
> You need to change the guides, pinch roller, tach roller, and reel hold downs
> to 1/2". Heads of course. John French at JRF Magnetics would probably have
> the heads and can do the conversion for you.
> You can check with him on guides too but some things may have to come from
> Studer and if still available, (a big if), it would be expensive. I think the
> audio cards are fine. Talk to John about making it a 1" 2 track!! Would be
> easier and sound awesome....

I second the idea for making it into a 1" two-track. You
wouldn't have to change the guides/rollers, just buy the
heads. John French could tell you whether the
electronics would need to be upgraded.

Another plus would be the potential to rent it out to
other studios. That could help pay for the conversion
costs. Would depend on the market you're in. If you're
in LA, NY, Chicago or Nashville, it would be something
to seriously consider.

--
--
John Noll
Retromedia Sound Studios
Red Bank, NJ

jn145_deletethisfirst_@verizon.net
http://www.retromedia.net
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 9:21:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cn1cea$alm$1@panix2.panix.com...
> 1/2" 2-track is still a new format, and there aren't used heads out
> there, so you are basically going to be paying whatever Flux charges
> for brand new heads, which is a scary number.

New being since around 1965! They were really quite common by the mid '70s
but only in music studios.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 2:11:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:cn1cea$alm$1@panix2.panix.com...
> > 1/2" 2-track is still a new format

In article
<PJhld.894606$Gx4.235925@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
olh@hyperback.com writes:

> New being since around 1965! They were really quite common by the mid '70s
> but only in music studios.

I thought, as Scott did, that the 1/2" two-track format was fairly
new, but I learned that this came fairly early on. What's new (later
1980s) is the popular use of the format for mixdown and master
delivery as an alternate to the popular but still kind of rocky
digital formats of the period. And of course today, what's old is new
again.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 4:01:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1100356224k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>> "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
>> news:cn1cea$alm$1@panix2.panix.com...
>> > 1/2" 2-track is still a new format
>
>In article
><PJhld.894606$Gx4.235925@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>olh@hyperback.com writes:
>
>> New being since around 1965! They were really quite common by the mid '70s
>> but only in music studios.
>
>I thought, as Scott did, that the 1/2" two-track format was fairly
>new, but I learned that this came fairly early on. What's new (later
>1980s) is the popular use of the format for mixdown and master
>delivery as an alternate to the popular but still kind of rocky
>digital formats of the period. And of course today, what's old is new
>again.

Yes, I don't think I ever saw a 1/2" 2-track tape until 1985 or so,
to be honest.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 4:01:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article <znr1100356224k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
>>> "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
>>> news:cn1cea$alm$1@panix2.panix.com...
>>>
>>>> 1/2" 2-track is still a new format
>>
>> In article
>> <PJhld.894606$Gx4.235925@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>> olh@hyperback.com writes:
>>
>>
>>> New being since around 1965! They were really quite common by the mid '70s
>>> but only in music studios.
>>
>> I thought, as Scott did, that the 1/2" two-track format was fairly
>> new, but I learned that this came fairly early on. What's new (later
>> 1980s) is the popular use of the format for mixdown and master
>> delivery as an alternate to the popular but still kind of rocky
>> digital formats of the period. And of course today, what's old is new
>> again.
>
>
> Yes, I don't think I ever saw a 1/2" 2-track tape until 1985 or so,
> to be honest.


I think that's about when we started using them.

"kind of rocky digital formats of the period" is exactly what we were scared of, so we always kept a good analog 2-track.
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 11:39:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks so much for your interest. I'll keep the 1" 8 tr in the chain for
now, and may switch to 2 tr 1" at some point, now that I know the options.

best regards

Rick Hollett
"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1100262290k@trad...
>
> In article <cn0rea$ap8$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net>
> rhollett@nl.rogers.com writes:
>
>> Any ideas about turning a studer A820 1" 8TR into a 1/2" 2TRK master
>> recorder? Is it just the heads that need changing? Or all the guides,
>> capstans rollers etc? What do heads go for these days?
>
> Heads and guides for sure, but that's pretty expensive. You may have
> to do some work on the electronics too. You're probalby talking around
> $3,000 for a set of heads, mounted and ready to go.
>
> Why stop at 1/2"? Why not make it a 1" 2-track? Or better, sell it to
> someone who wants a nice analog 8-track and look for a 1/2" Ampex
> ATR-100 to convert to two-track.
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
November 26, 2004 4:55:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <PJhld.894606$Gx4.235925@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Bob Olhsson <olh@hyperback.com> wrote:
>"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
>news:cn1cea$alm$1@panix2.panix.com...
>> 1/2" 2-track is still a new format, and there aren't used heads out
>> there, so you are basically going to be paying whatever Flux charges
>> for brand new heads, which is a scary number.

>New being since around 1965! They were really quite common by the
>mid '70s but only in music studios.

That's about the right time frame. It was a factory option
on the MR-70 and there was a 4-track 1" model too.

Of probably less than 100 made a friend of mine sold us two
machines - 2 track 1/4" and 4-track 1/2" and one other
to Shelby Singleton's studios in Nashville.

Specs on the FT 1/4", 2-track 1/2" and 4-track 1" had
a 70db S/N ratio. The only machine then that you could make
worse by adding Dolby A.

I think we bought ours in '66 [maybe '67] when Ampex discontinued
them and had a fire-sale. I think we paid just over $4k for the
4-track and we had an 8-track AG-440 that was serial number 13.
And that was the serial number on the 4-track headstack too. [That
was our first of 2 warehouse studios before we built the big one.
[BeeJay - Orlando - long gone]

Bill

--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
Anonymous
November 27, 2004 6:35:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Almost all 4 track MR-70's were 1/2" and
there weren't many of those built. The entire MR production was under 100.

Chris Preston
Anonymous
November 28, 2004 11:34:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 27 Nov 2004 15:35:25 GMT, bassmancp@aol.com (BASSMANCP) wrote:

>Almost all 4 track MR-70's were 1/2" and
>there weren't many of those built. The entire MR production was under 100.
>
>Chris Preston

When were they built?
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 5:05:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <20041127103525.09690.00000739@mb-m20.aol.com>,
BASSMANCP <bassmancp@aol.com> wrote:

>Almost all 4 track MR-70's were 1/2" and there weren't many of
>those built. The entire MR production was under 100.

A few years ago we were counting where they went and the figure at
that time was about 77. So we had over 2% of the total production.
And Bell Labs had 13 machines AIR.



--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 5:05:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <I82o2L.t3s@wjv.com>, Bill Vermillion <bv@wjv.com> wrote:
>BASSMANCP <bassmancp@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>Almost all 4 track MR-70's were 1/2" and there weren't many of
>>those built. The entire MR production was under 100.
>
>A few years ago we were counting where they went and the figure at
>that time was about 77. So we had over 2% of the total production.
>And Bell Labs had 13 machines AIR.

What percentage of the total production is in Howard Sanner's basement
today? Is there any room to actually walk there?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 5:15:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1101674045.TPNIrQsxmO+owVvo4069fg@teranews>,
<abuse@mistral.net> wrote:
>On 27 Nov 2004 15:35:25 GMT, bassmancp@aol.com (BASSMANCP) wrote:
>
>>Almost all 4 track MR-70's were 1/2" and
>>there weren't many of those built. The entire MR production was under 100.
>>
>>Chris Preston
>
>When were they built?

1965. I have a copy of the AES pre-print on how they were building
the best recorder in the world.

This was before a lot of automated testing so they made different
style top-plates and tested it by standing on it. When they got it
stiff enough to support 6 people they considered it strong enough.

It was a cast steel top plate with 1" deep webbings. The transport
alone weight 105 pounds - with 4 motors.

There were the feed/takeup motors, the capstan motor. And then
there was a motor on the incoming idler. It had a beautiful fluid
damped flywheel on it, and the motor turned on for 1/2 second when
you pushed play. NO start up wow and flutter.

You never had to spin the capstan like the old 350s to get it up to
speed. You could literally split notes with that machine and never
hear a startup chirp. That had to be my favorite 2-track machine of
all time.

In the mid-70s - while we were still in our second warehouse
studio - I had a capstan built to handle 30 IPS. Those fit right
over the standard capstan - which was 1/2" in diameter to start
with.

And since the MR-70s had 3 equalization curves for both speed,
NAB, CCIR and AME, I diddled the AME to be 30IPS.

The person who did most of our mastering [we were just a little
local shop doing custom LPs them] Sam ??? [at Bell - you can see
his initials on a lot of the London LPs - maybe Sam Feldman] said
we were one of the first to go back to 30IPS, as 30IPS fell out of
favor in the mid-late '50s'

I remember that is so nice to be able to get 15Khz at 15 IPS and
the good tapes like 111 made it work. I found an old reel
of tape one time - don't know the manufacturer - but it
was the orignal black magnetite coating on paper tape - the kind
you used to use on the old Brush SoundMirror - and you could
barely get 8Khz at 15IPS on the 350 I had just set up on the newer
tape.

And it was the late '50s when tapes started getting polished. Up
until then if you wanted to make sure your recoding was going to be
OK you played it from end to end one time to knock off the high
spots on the oxide.

My first home machine was an old mono PT6 Maggie with plug in
equalizers - it was traded in by Ferrante and Teicher when they
played town as they got a new SuperScope to take with them.

I think I've been around these things too long. But I haven't done
any studio work in years and the last time I was in a studio
they were doing a cylinder session on a 1903 Edison.

Bill
--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
Anonymous
December 3, 2004 10:45:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <colu83$r2t$1@panix2.panix.com>,
Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <I82o2L.t3s@wjv.com>, Bill Vermillion <bv@wjv.com> wrote:
>>BASSMANCP <bassmancp@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Almost all 4 track MR-70's were 1/2" and there weren't many of
>>>those built. The entire MR production was under 100.
>>
>>A few years ago we were counting where they went and the figure at
>>that time was about 77. So we had over 2% of the total production.
>>And Bell Labs had 13 machines AIR.
>
>What percentage of the total production is in Howard Sanner's basement
>today? Is there any room to actually walk there?

Well I know at least 1/77th is there :-) Howard came to Orlando
and we dismantled the MR-70 4-track console to fit it all in
his small station wagon and move it to the DC area. Since our
2-track and 4-track arrived assembled in huge crates shipped
horizonally, I had no idea how easy the console was to take apart
and put back together.

My son had that MR-70 for awhile and the group he was fooling with used
it for recording their band. They smoked the pull in relay on that.
I used to have problems with relays sticking occasionally but I was
there with the machine and catch things as they happened.

In retrospect I should have bought the 2-track when the studio was
parted out - but it was SO BIG. So I wound up with an Electrosound
505ES instead. The 2-track went to Tampa and I don't know where it
went. I think Bob Katz has an MR-70 Electronis he's using for
something.

I thought Howard was going to rewind the relay - as they really
were pretty simple beasts - just took a bit of time and patience.

Bill

--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
!