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piano micing

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November 19, 2004 7:23:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

i posted a while back about micing a grand piano. the room is small.
ceilings are about 11 ft high

i was using ribbon mics and an old ampex mixer and it sounded horrible- too
boomy and no definition

the latest incarnation is using a great river mp with neuman km 184's. so
far this is the best sound yet. the gr really tightened up the mid section
and the highs. on my speakers at home it sounds good to me on playback. i
listened on some old large bose speakers and it still sounds too boomy in
the bass register and low mid register. i've heard other recordings on the
bose speakers that sound fine, so i can't blame the speakers. or could i
blame my home monitors for being too mid and high oriented and not bass
oriented enough

i will try close micing next with the mics near the hammers at either end of
the keyboard facing eachother

wondering if a transformer mic will tighten up the low end, or if a
different mic is in order.

i was considering getting some bass traps around the walls of the piano and
maybe a carpet underneath the piano but i was cautioned against this by a
musician i trust.

open to suggestions that dont cost too much. 100 hz rolloff? even though i
dont have a mixer to do this

i have two rode classic mics and two akg61's that i havent tried yet and
also some 57's

come to think of it the rodes have a bass rolloff so maybe this is the next
thing to try, though for some reason i think the small diaphragms are best
for a piano

More about : piano micing

Anonymous
November 19, 2004 2:17:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I just got one of my favorite piano sounds ever with Radio Shack mics.
On a upright, I had a PZM inside after removing the lower front cover
and some old high impedance mic with an on/off swtich and a 1/4 inch
cable (which I ran into a DI) on the back right up on the sound board.
Then both went to a GR NV and a Pendulum ES-8 in the faster program
dependent preset. I was great for a close miked sound. I also had good
result with a 451 on the soundboard for a more traditional open sound.

Usually I mic from a pair of condensors from a few feet away, but this
close sound was a nice change.
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 3:48:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Oh, I'm very sorry... you've got it completely wrong.

I'm astonished that you didn't first post the following
question:

I've got an old upright piano that I want to mic. What would
happen if I take off the lower front cover, and hang maybe a
Radio Shack PZM inside? Will this work if I put an old high
impedance mic with a switch and 1/4" plug on it back on the
sound board? Can I run it into a DI? What will happen if
they both go to a GR NV and Pendulum ES-8? What kind of
sound will I get? Do you think I'll get a good result with a
451 on the soundboard? What kind of sound will I get with
that?

How dare you try something without asking for expert advice?
Do you really think personal curiosity and initiative is a
substitute for newsgroup advice?

How impertinent...



TM
Good on ya :-)


Mike Caffrey wrote:
>
> I just got one of my favorite piano sounds ever with Radio Shack mics.
> On a upright, I had a PZM inside after removing the lower front cover
> and some old high impedance mic with an on/off swtich and a 1/4 inch
> cable (which I ran into a DI) on the back right up on the sound board.
> Then both went to a GR NV and a Pendulum ES-8 in the faster program
> dependent preset. I was great for a close miked sound. I also had good
> result with a 451 on the soundboard for a more traditional open sound.
>
> Usually I mic from a pair of condensors from a few feet away, but this
> close sound was a nice change.
Related resources
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 8:05:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

anon <anonymousm@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>the latest incarnation is using a great river mp with neuman km 184's. so
>far this is the best sound yet. the gr really tightened up the mid section
>and the highs. on my speakers at home it sounds good to me on playback. i
>listened on some old large bose speakers and it still sounds too boomy in
>the bass register and low mid register. i've heard other recordings on the
>bose speakers that sound fine, so i can't blame the speakers. or could i
>blame my home monitors for being too mid and high oriented and not bass
>oriented enough

No, you can blame the Bose. The 901 is just that way.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 6:11:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"anon" <anonymousm@nyc.rr.com> wrote in
news:Uyend.18049$Vk6.2324@twister.nyc.rr.com:

> i will try close micing next with the mics near the hammers at either
> end of the keyboard facing each other.

Watch out for cancellation between the mics.

> wondering if a transformer mic will tighten up the low end, or if a
> different mic is in order.

A transformer should not have effect to the degree you need it. If a 184
sound bassy then you need to move the mic or change the room.

> i was considering getting some bass traps around the walls of the
> piano and maybe a carpet underneath the piano but i was cautioned
> against this by a musician i trust.

You need to try Scott Dorsey's technique of blocking one ear and listening
very critically with the other. When you find the sound you want to
record, put a microphone or two where your ear was. If the room is boomy
you might add some absorption. If you can't buy or build good bass traps,
try some heavy overstuffed furniture pushed into the corners.

Carpet will dampen only the high end, making your sound more muffled.

Changes in microphone placement and room acoustics will swamp any but the
most drastic changes in mic and preamp selection.

Going from a ribbon mic and a nonlinear preamp to a condenser mic and a
Great River preamp qualifies as such a "drastic change".
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 6:11:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Carey Carlan <gulfjoe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>You need to try Scott Dorsey's technique of blocking one ear and listening
>very critically with the other. When you find the sound you want to
>record, put a microphone or two where your ear was. If the room is boomy
>you might add some absorption. If you can't buy or build good bass traps,
>try some heavy overstuffed furniture pushed into the corners.

It's not! It's Gabe Weiner's technique! He deserves the credit!
It is wonderful, though. I wish I had known about it a decade earlier.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
November 22, 2004 3:13:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
news:cnmeug$ag7$1@panix3.panix.com:

> Carey Carlan <gulfjoe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>You need to try Scott Dorsey's technique of blocking one ear and
>>listening very critically with the other. When you find the sound you
>>want to record, put a microphone or two where your ear was. If the
>>room is boomy you might add some absorption. If you can't buy or
>>build good bass traps, try some heavy overstuffed furniture pushed
>>into the corners.
>
> It's not! It's Gabe Weiner's technique! He deserves the credit!
> It is wonderful, though. I wish I had known about it a decade
> earlier. --scott

One more qualifier. To match the resonse of a typical directional mic, cup
a hand behind the exposed ear. The resulting directional effect and high
end emphasis sound more like my cardioid condensers.
Anonymous
November 22, 2004 6:26:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< It's not! It's Gabe Weiner's technique! He deserves the credit!
It is wonderful, though. I wish I had known about it a decade earlier. >>

Hell, I was doing that about 20 years before I ever heard of Gabe. I thought
everybody empirically arrived at that technique. Nowadays I just aim one ear at
the instrument & ignore the other ear. Since I generally have both hands full
of mic stand adjustments & can't spare a finger to stick in the "away" ear, it
works reasonably well.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
November 22, 2004 10:32:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
> news:cnmeug$ag7$1@panix3.panix.com:
>
> > Carey Carlan <gulfjoe@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>You need to try Scott Dorsey's technique of blocking one ear and
> >>listening very critically with the other. When you find the sound you
> >>want to record, put a microphone or two where your ear was. If the
> >>room is boomy you might add some absorption. If you can't buy or
> >>build good bass traps, try some heavy overstuffed furniture pushed
> >>into the corners.
> >
> > It's not! It's Gabe Weiner's technique! He deserves the credit!
> > It is wonderful, though. I wish I had known about it a decade
> > earlier. --scott

And I think he got it from Bert Whyte.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
November 22, 2004 8:28:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

ScotFraser wrote:
> << It's not! It's Gabe Weiner's technique! He deserves the credit!
> It is wonderful, though. I wish I had known about it a decade
> earlier. >>
>
> Hell, I was doing that about 20 years before I ever heard of Gabe. I
> thought everybody empirically arrived at that technique. Nowadays I
> just aim one ear at the instrument & ignore the other ear. Since I
> generally have both hands full of mic stand adjustments & can't spare
> a finger to stick in the "away" ear, it works reasonably well.
>
> Scott Fraser

....and how many of you (us) guage the daily response of our ears by rubbing
two fingers together beside your head and slowly increasing distance to make
sure you're not experiencing hearing fatigue..and that both were equal? I
came about that one independantly, and then was amazed one day to see a
respected audio engineer doing the same thing.

jak
Anonymous
November 23, 2004 2:40:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"jakdedert" <jdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:8yuod.40588$z3.10669@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> ...and how many of you (us) guage the daily response of our ears by
> rubbing
> two fingers together beside your head and slowly increasing distance to
> make
> sure you're not experiencing hearing fatigue..and that both were equal? I
> came about that one independantly, and then was amazed one day to see a
> respected audio engineer doing the same thing.

So I'm not a freak -- well, not that way, anyway. Whew!
Anonymous
November 27, 2004 10:12:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

ScotFraser wrote:

> Since I generally have both hands full of mic stand adjustments & can't
> spare a finger to stick in the "away" ear

is why there are Fava beans.

--
ha
Anonymous
November 27, 2004 11:10:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

hank alrich <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote:
>ScotFraser wrote:
>
>> Since I generally have both hands full of mic stand adjustments & can't
>> spare a finger to stick in the "away" ear
>
>is why there are Fava beans.

My mother told me never to put beans in my ears.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
November 27, 2004 7:00:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< is why there are Fava beans.
>>



Silly Hank. Everbody knows fava beans are for sticking up yer nose.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
December 3, 2004 5:06:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Nothing smaller than your elbow, I believe the saying was.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:co9ub8$l0$1@panix3.panix.com...
> hank alrich <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote:
> >ScotFraser wrote:
> >
> >> Since I generally have both hands full of mic stand adjustments & can't
> >> spare a finger to stick in the "away" ear
> >
> >is why there are Fava beans.
>
> My mother told me never to put beans in my ears.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
December 4, 2004 7:21:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Roger W. Norman" <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:yKWdncYTQrMGJS3cRVn-qg@rcn.net...
> Nothing smaller than your elbow, I believe the saying was.

So my d**k's OK then.

Dunno if it's been mentioned (missed a bunc while hard disk died this week,
but the latest Recording has a comprehensive piano miking artical.

geoff
!