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Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters?

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Anonymous
November 24, 2004 3:39:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Just wondering if placing an adhesive label on high quality CD media (HHB,
etc) could somehow present problems to a duplication facility... I guess
issues could be the added weight of the label itself. Very little ink is
used on the label, only the basic documentation. The labels are also
centered properly with one of those handheld devices.

Thanks!

Roach
November 24, 2004 10:09:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I recomend not putting them on master or any CDs.You can buy thermal CD
printers for around 100 to 200 dollars that will give it a great look and
not harm the data.

Stick on lables are a bad idea and a really bad idea for master copies as
over time they can creat problems and even help destroy data.Some lables
have harsh chemicals thatover time can hurt the CD.



Mike Rocha <therealroach@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:p LudnWs83pfSgzncRVn-rA@rogers.com...
> Just wondering if placing an adhesive label on high quality CD media (HHB,
> etc) could somehow present problems to a duplication facility... I guess
> issues could be the added weight of the label itself. Very little ink is
> used on the label, only the basic documentation. The labels are also
> centered properly with one of those handheld devices.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Roach
>
>
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 1:24:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rocha" <therealroach@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:p LudnWs83pfSgzncRVn-rA@rogers.com...
> Just wondering if placing an adhesive label on high quality CD media (HHB,
> etc) could somehow present problems to a duplication facility... I guess
> issues could be the added weight of the label itself. Very little ink is
> used on the label, only the basic documentation. The labels are also
> centered properly with one of those handheld devices.
>
Get this:

www.lightscribe.com

Glenn D.
Related resources
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 1:31:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

When I first got my CD-writer I used to put labels on some of them. Within
a year, none of the disks with labels were playable, all the disks I'm still
using without labels are playable about 7 years later.

Never put labels on disks. You have been warned.

Rollasoc
http://www.hairthieves.com


"Troy" <alternate-root@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:wsWod.311790$Pl.188115@pd7tw1no...
> I recomend not putting them on master or any CDs.You can buy thermal CD
> printers for around 100 to 200 dollars that will give it a great look and
> not harm the data.
>
> Stick on lables are a bad idea and a really bad idea for master copies as
> over time they can creat problems and even help destroy data.Some lables
> have harsh chemicals thatover time can hurt the CD.
>
>
>
> Mike Rocha <therealroach@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:p LudnWs83pfSgzncRVn-rA@rogers.com...
> > Just wondering if placing an adhesive label on high quality CD media
(HHB,
> > etc) could somehow present problems to a duplication facility... I guess
> > issues could be the added weight of the label itself. Very little ink is
> > used on the label, only the basic documentation. The labels are also
> > centered properly with one of those handheld devices.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Roach
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 3:19:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:09:16 +0100, Troy wrote:
> Mike Rocha <therealroach@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:p LudnWs83pfSgzncRVn-rA@rogers.com...
>> Just wondering if placing an adhesive label on high quality CD media
>> (HHB, etc) could somehow present problems to a duplication facility...
>> I guess issues could be the added weight of the label itself. Very
>> little ink is used on the label, only the basic documentation. The
>> labels are also centered properly with one of those handheld devices.
>>
> I recomend not putting them on master or any CDs.You can buy thermal CD
> printers for around 100 to 200 dollars that will give it a great look
> and not harm the data.
>
> Stick on lables are a bad idea and a really bad idea for master copies
> as over time they can creat problems and even help destroy data.Some
> lables have harsh chemicals thatover time can hurt the CD.

I recomend inkjet printable CD's with an also cheap inkjet printer. I use
a Canaon i865 with Taiyo Yuden Tuff-Coat Inkjet White printable
CD-R(PRI53315-80P). The coating gives an extra protection for the data
layer. With the printer you can put not only basic information but quite a
lot of information on the disk, including high resolution images. The
copyright notice goes perfect in a 6pt font.

Adhesive labels can hurt the data layer and introduce unbalace.

--
Chel van Gennip
Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com
November 24, 2004 3:19:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chel van Gennip wrote:

> I recomend inkjet printable CD's with an also cheap inkjet printer. I use
> a Canaon i865 with Taiyo Yuden Tuff-Coat Inkjet White printable
> CD-R(PRI53315-80P). The coating gives an extra protection for the data
> layer. With the printer you can put not only basic information but quite a
> lot of information on the disk, including high resolution images. The
> copyright notice goes perfect in a 6pt font.

Do these use the same water soluble inks as ink jet printing on paper?
November 24, 2004 7:09:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Although inkjet CDs are better than lables,I woulden't use them for masters
either.Over time you can have problems with them also.Stick to thermal
printing or a marker.Stay away from ink on masters all together.Its fine on
copies of the master but just leave the master alone.Inkjet CDs can absorb
moisture over time and get all mushy al start to fall apart.There are
reports of this.Thermal printing is 100% safe...so thermal or
nothing!!!!!.....and use good media with proper storage and you will have no
problems.




Chel van Gennip <chel@vangennip.nl> wrote in message
news:30j91jF31gg4bU1@uni-berlin.de...
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:09:16 +0100, Troy wrote:
> > Mike Rocha <therealroach@rogers.com> wrote in message
> > news:p LudnWs83pfSgzncRVn-rA@rogers.com...
> >> Just wondering if placing an adhesive label on high quality CD media
> >> (HHB, etc) could somehow present problems to a duplication facility...
> >> I guess issues could be the added weight of the label itself. Very
> >> little ink is used on the label, only the basic documentation. The
> >> labels are also centered properly with one of those handheld devices.
> >>
> > I recomend not putting them on master or any CDs.You can buy thermal CD
> > printers for around 100 to 200 dollars that will give it a great look
> > and not harm the data.
> >
> > Stick on lables are a bad idea and a really bad idea for master copies
> > as over time they can creat problems and even help destroy data.Some
> > lables have harsh chemicals thatover time can hurt the CD.
>
> I recomend inkjet printable CD's with an also cheap inkjet printer. I use
> a Canaon i865 with Taiyo Yuden Tuff-Coat Inkjet White printable
> CD-R(PRI53315-80P). The coating gives an extra protection for the data
> layer. With the printer you can put not only basic information but quite a
> lot of information on the disk, including high resolution images. The
> copyright notice goes perfect in a 6pt font.
>
> Adhesive labels can hurt the data layer and introduce unbalace.
>
> --
> Chel van Gennip
> Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 7:12:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <-tqdne3G96gwXjncRVn-1A@comcast.com> glenn.dowdy@commiecast.net writes:

> www.lightscribe.com

Are disks, drives, and software actually available yet? And at what
cost? I think not. An interesting concept, but well apart from the
question asked.

Anyone can shoot links, but unless the product is available it doesn't
solve a problem. And until the cost of "Lightscribale" media is
comprable to a disk plus a label, it will just be a cool yuppie toy
(for which we can be thankful, because that's what makes the cost
drop).




--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
November 24, 2004 7:42:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

No...It is more like a wax melted onto the CD and won't harm the CD in any
way and is very durable.It is also water proof and instantly dry once
printed.We use rimage everest and prism thermal CD printers.They are very
expensive but there are small consumer models for home use made by a few
companies.The new one from Primera looks pretty cool and will print on 4
places on the CD.



agent86 <maxwellsmart@control.gov> wrote in message
news:An2pd.42681$jE2.9288@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> Chel van Gennip wrote:
>
> > I recomend inkjet printable CD's with an also cheap inkjet printer. I
use
> > a Canaon i865 with Taiyo Yuden Tuff-Coat Inkjet White printable
> > CD-R(PRI53315-80P). The coating gives an extra protection for the data
> > layer. With the printer you can put not only basic information but quite
a
> > lot of information on the disk, including high resolution images. The
> > copyright notice goes perfect in a 6pt font.
>
> Do these use the same water soluble inks as ink jet printing on paper?
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 7:42:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>> Chel van Gennip wrote:
>> > I recomend inkjet printable CD's with an also cheap
>> > inkjet printer. I use a Canaon i865 with Taiyo Yuden
>> > Tuff-Coat Inkjet White printable CD-R(PRI53315-80P).
>> > The coating gives an extra protection for the data layer.
>> > With the printer you can put not only basic information
>> > but quite a lot of information on the disk, including high
>> > resolution images. The copyright notice goes perfect in
>> > a 6pt font.

> agent86 wrote...
>> Do these use the same water soluble inks as ink jet printing
>> on paper?

"Troy" wrote ...
> No...It is more like a wax melted onto the CD and won't harm
> the CD in any way and is very durable.It is also water proof
> and instantly dry once printed.We use rimage everest and prism
> thermal CD printers.They are very expensive but there are small
> consumer models for home use made by a few companies.The
> new one from Primera looks pretty cool and will print on 4
> places on the CD.

It appears that Agent86 was asking about the inkjet method
described by Chel, but Troy was answering a different branch
of the thread about thermal printing?

As a user of an Epson Stylus Photo R300 inkjet printer, the
answer to Agent86's question is, yes, it uses the same water-
soluble ink as for printing on paper.

I am interested in also getting a thermal printer and would like
to hear which models people like (or dislike), and particularly
about supplies of the printing foil rolls.
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 8:18:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1101318097k@trad...
>
> In article <-tqdne3G96gwXjncRVn-1A@comcast.com> glenn.dowdy@commiecast.net
writes:
>
> > www.lightscribe.com
>
> Are disks, drives, and software actually available yet? And at what
> cost? I think not. An interesting concept, but well apart from the
> question asked.
>
You'll see'em soon. I've got mine, but I'm on the project team ;) 

> Anyone can shoot links, but unless the product is available it doesn't
> solve a problem. And until the cost of "Lightscribale" media is
> comprable to a disk plus a label, it will just be a cool yuppie toy
> (for which we can be thankful, because that's what makes the cost
> drop).
>

Media pricing will be comparable to disc plus label. Additionally, it solves
the DVD+R labeling problems.

Drives will also be competitive with non-LightScribe drives.

Glenn D.
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 9:10:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>
>> I recomend inkjet printable CD's with an also cheap inkjet printer. I
>use
>> a Canaon i865 with Taiyo Yuden Tuff-Coat Inkjet White printable
>> CD-R(PRI53315-80P). The coating gives an extra protection for the data
>> layer. With the printer you can put not only basic information but quite
>a
>> lot of information on the disk, including high resolution images. The
>> copyright notice goes perfect in a 6pt font.
>
>Do these use the same water soluble inks as ink jet printing on paper?
>
>


Yes.

You need special ink jet printable discs

Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty
November 24, 2004 9:20:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Richard Crowley wrote:

> It appears that Agent86 was asking about the inkjet method
> described by Chel, but Troy was answering a different branch
> of the thread about thermal printing?
>
> As a user of an Epson Stylus Photo R300 inkjet printer, the
> answer to Agent86's question is, yes, it uses the same water-
> soluble ink as for printing on paper.
>
> I am interested in also getting a thermal printer and would like
> to hear which models people like (or dislike), and particularly
> about supplies of the printing foil rolls.

Exactly. I find inkjets mostly worthless for much of anything because the
inks are not waterproof when dry (plus, the ink cartriges are just so damn
expensive, compared to laser toner). I'm still waiting for color lasers to
come down in price (for paper), but the thermal printers sound like they
have potential for CD-Rs.
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 9:20:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

agent86 wrote:
> Richard Crowley wrote:
>
>>>> I recomend inkjet printable CD's with an also cheap inkjet printer. I use
>>>> a Canon i865 with Taiyo Yuden Tuff-Coat Inkjet White printable
>>>> CD-R(PRI53315-80P). The coating gives an extra protection for the data
>>>> layer. With the printer you can put not only basic information but quite a
>>>> lot of information on the disk, including high resolution images.
>>>
>>>
>>> Do these use the same water soluble inks as ink jet printing on paper?
>>
>>
>> As a user of an Epson Stylus Photo R300 inkjet printer, the
>> answer to Agent86's question is, yes, it uses the same water-
>> soluble ink as for printing on paper.
>
>
> Exactly. I find inkjets mostly worthless for much of anything because the
> inks are not waterproof when dry

Depends on the inkjet. Some of the higher end Epsons use pigment ink.
<http://www.epson.com.sg/innovations/InksUltraChrome.sht...;
<http://www.pictureline.com/newsletter/2004/november/ink...;

The R800 ($399 list) can print on CDs.




> (plus, the ink cartriges are just so damn
> expensive, compared to laser toner).

If you're just printing on CD's they don't cost all that much. For general purpose office needs, a laser is much less expensive to own.
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 9:23:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:09:13 +0100, Troy wrote:

> Although inkjet CDs are better than lables,I woulden't use them for
> masters either.Over time you can have problems with them also.Stick to
> thermal printing or a marker.Stay away from ink on masters all
> together.Its fine on copies of the master but just leave the master
> alone.Inkjet CDs can absorb moisture over time and get all mushy al
> start to fall apart. There are reports of this.

I've not encountered problems yet and i've seen no reports of problems
either.

> Thermal printing is 100%
> safe...so thermal or nothing!!!!!.....and use good media with proper
> storage and you will have no problems.

For archiving I think storage in a digital data format is more reliable
than a digital audio format. Furthermore DVD+R seems more reliable than
CD-R, because the datalayer is between polycarbonate disks. They promise
expected lifetimes >100 years under normal conditions, although I think
you will have to copy to a new format during this time because all formats
will become obsolete in time.

So for archiving I use WAV files on DVD. With the extra space you can
archive the printwork on the same DVD. Masters for CD production can
be created from this archive DVD.

--
Chel van Gennip
Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com
November 24, 2004 9:42:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chel van Gennip wrote:

> For archiving I think storage in a digital data format is more reliable
> than a digital audio format.

Probably.

> Furthermore DVD+R seems more reliable than
> CD-R, because the datalayer is between polycarbonate disks. They promise
> expected lifetimes >100 years under normal conditions,

Well, that remains to be seen. Of course, nobody reading this has a good
reason to care if they last 100 years. What I'd worry about is whether the
people making that promise were even trustworthy in general. There is some
anectdotal evidence that even pressed CDs might not be as durable as we
were initally promised they would be.


> although I think
> you will have to copy to a new format during this time because all formats
> will become obsolete in time.

And, unfortunately, newer formats become obsolete MUCH faster than older
ones, simply because no manufacturer WANTS to build a really good CD-R or
DVD-R drive. A hundred years from now, there will STILL be Ampex & Studer
tape machines in service. Whether there will be any usable tapes might be
a different question altogether.)


> So for archiving I use WAV files on DVD. With the extra space you can
> archive the printwork on the same DVD. Masters for CD production can
> be created from this archive DVD.

That's using the old noggin. Might still be wise to store at least two
copies in separate locations & check them every couple of years.
November 24, 2004 11:35:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thats kind of neat but you need special LightScribe-enabled discs.I can see
these being a lot more expensive than non branded thermal printable CDs.But
it is a very cool idea for home one offs.I would like to see one in action.



Glenn Dowdy <glenn.dowdy@commiecast.net> wrote in message
news:-tqdne3G96gwXjncRVn-1A@comcast.com...
>
> "Mike Rocha" <therealroach@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:p LudnWs83pfSgzncRVn-rA@rogers.com...
> > Just wondering if placing an adhesive label on high quality CD media
(HHB,
> > etc) could somehow present problems to a duplication facility... I guess
> > issues could be the added weight of the label itself. Very little ink is
> > used on the label, only the basic documentation. The labels are also
> > centered properly with one of those handheld devices.
> >
> Get this:
>
> www.lightscribe.com
>
> Glenn D.
>
>
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 11:35:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Troy" wrote ...
> Thats kind of neat but you need special LightScribe-enabled discs.

And don't forget special drives with an additional blaster LED
also.

> I can see these being a lot more expensive than non branded
> thermal printable CDs. But it is a very cool idea for home one
> offs. I would like to see one in action.

It is a cool idea, but too little, too expensive, too late, I fear.
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 11:35:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:10qa1ls2stmema0@corp.supernews.com...
> "Troy" wrote ...
> > Thats kind of neat but you need special LightScribe-enabled discs.
>
> And don't forget special drives with an additional blaster LED
> also.
>
The LightScribe enabled drives use the same laser that's used to write the
data side with.



> > I can see these being a lot more expensive than non branded
> > thermal printable CDs. But it is a very cool idea for home one
> > offs. I would like to see one in action.
>
> It is a cool idea, but too little, too expensive, too late, I fear.
>
Media won't be that much more expensive than standard CD-Rs, and they'll
have a much better resolution.

Glenn D.
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 11:35:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> "Richard Crowley" wrote ...
>> And don't forget special drives with an additional blaster
>> LED also.

"Glenn Dowdy" wrote ...
> The LightScribe enabled drives use the same laser that's used
> to write the data side with.

http://www.lightscribe.com/howlightscribeworks.aspx
"Your LightScribe-enabled CD/DVD disc drive contains a
special laser that pumps light energy into a thin dye coating
on the label side of the disc."
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 11:35:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:10qafvmft8ke2b0@corp.supernews.com...
> > "Richard Crowley" wrote ...
> >> And don't forget special drives with an additional blaster
> >> LED also.
>
> "Glenn Dowdy" wrote ...
> > The LightScribe enabled drives use the same laser that's used
> > to write the data side with.
>
> http://www.lightscribe.com/howlightscribeworks.aspx
> "Your LightScribe-enabled CD/DVD disc drive contains a
> special laser that pumps light energy into a thin dye coating
> on the label side of the disc."
>
Trust me. It's the same laser. It's been tuned a bit differently and the
drive has special firmware, but there are only two lasers in the drive, same
as any other DVD drive.

Glenn D.
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 1:29:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Glenn Dowdy" wrote ...
>
> "Richard Crowley" wrote ...
>> > "Richard Crowley" wrote ...
>> >> And don't forget special drives with an additional blaster
>> >> LED also.
>>
>> "Glenn Dowdy" wrote ...
>> > The LightScribe enabled drives use the same laser that's used
>> > to write the data side with.
>>
>> http://www.lightscribe.com/howlightscribeworks.aspx
>> "Your LightScribe-enabled CD/DVD disc drive contains a
>> special laser that pumps light energy into a thin dye coating
>> on the label side of the disc."
>>
> Trust me. It's the same laser. It's been tuned a bit differently
> and the drive has special firmware, but there are only two
> lasers in the drive, same as any other DVD drive.

But still requires a special drive and special disks. Even if HP
could get all drive makers to incorporate the firmware, the discs
would likely still cost more because of the extra processing
required and likely lower volume. But I would love to be shown
wrong as it is an elegant idea.
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 4:13:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 00:42:57 +0100, agent86 wrote:

>> although I think
>> you will have to copy to a new format during this time because all
>> formats will become obsolete in time.
>
> And, unfortunately, newer formats become obsolete MUCH faster than older
> ones, simply because no manufacturer WANTS to build a really good CD-R
> or DVD-R drive. A hundred years from now, there will STILL be Ampex &
> Studer tape machines in service. Whether there will be any usable tapes
> might be a different question altogether.)

I doubt both the availability of the machines and the readability of the
tapes in 20 years. Mainstream solutions like CD and DVD tend to last
a bit longer.

>> So for archiving I use WAV files on DVD. With the extra space you can
>> archive the printwork on the same DVD. Masters for CD production can be
>> created from this archive DVD.
>
> That's using the old noggin. Might still be wise to store at least two
> copies in separate locations & check them every couple of years.

It is also wise to copy to new media from time to time. It increases the
lifetime and reduces the volume as the capacity of newer media is
growing. With digital media lossless copies are standard. In the 80's I
had a large collection of computer datafiles on floppy (360k 5.25"). In
the 90's I copied them to quicktape, about 200 floppies on a tape.
Later I moved the archive to CD, about 12 tapes on 1 CD-R. The newest
blu-ray disc's can store about 70 CD's on one blu-ray disc. That is about
150,000 times more capacity in 25 years.

--
Chel van Gennip
Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com
November 25, 2004 4:13:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chel van Gennip wrote:

>> A hundred years from now, there will STILL be Ampex &
>> Studer tape machines in service. Whether there will be any usable tapes
>> might be a different question altogether.)
>
> I doubt both the availability of the machines and the readability of the
> tapes in 20 years. Mainstream solutions like CD and DVD tend to last
> a bit longer.

I have no doubt that quality tape recorders built 50 years ago will still
be functional 100 years hence. At the time these things were built, there
was no reason to believe that analog tape would not ALWAYS be the
professional standard. If you don't expect the standard media to change,
part of what makes it "Professional" is durability. That's just the way
things were done back then. Planned obsolescence is a relatively modern
concept.

Conversely, there was usually no anticipation that some of the music
created in the 60s & early 70s would be as timeless & influential as it has
turned out to be. Before the Beatles came along, popular music was just
that, "popular" Consequently, the original masters for a lot of classic
recordings have already been lost.
November 25, 2004 4:31:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I agree Richard ...."to little to late" ......thermal printing is the way to
go.Its cheap and durable.



Richard Crowley <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:10qa1ls2stmema0@corp.supernews.com...
> "Troy" wrote ...
> > Thats kind of neat but you need special LightScribe-enabled discs.
>
> And don't forget special drives with an additional blaster LED
> also.
>
> > I can see these being a lot more expensive than non branded
> > thermal printable CDs. But it is a very cool idea for home one
> > offs. I would like to see one in action.
>
> It is a cool idea, but too little, too expensive, too late, I fear.
>
>
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 4:31:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Troy" <alternate-root@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:LBapd.321018$nl.173599@pd7tw3no...
> I agree Richard ...."to little to late" ......thermal printing is the way
to
> go.Its cheap and durable.
>
How does thermal work on DVDRs?

Glenn D.
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 4:31:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.dowdy@commiecast.net> wrote in message
news:p qydnQfzLNGq0DjcRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
>
> "Troy" <alternate-root@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:LBapd.321018$nl.173599@pd7tw3no...
>> I agree Richard ...."to little to late" ......thermal printing is the way
> to
>> go.Its cheap and durable.
>>
> How does thermal work on DVDRs?

Why would it be any different than on CDRs?
November 25, 2004 4:40:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Glen.....how long does it take to print a full coverage image?

Is there any way to get a print sample?

I own a CD duplication business and we run 4 rimage proteges with prism
printers and one automated Everest printer.

How is the quality compaired to the prisms?.It looks kind of washed out in
the pictures on the site.

How would something like this stand up in 24hr production if it were
packaged as an automated printer only?.Any idea of copies per life of the
unit?

I know this is a lot of questions but I am very interested in new printing
technology.


--
Thanks
Troy Tremblay





Glenn Dowdy <glenn.dowdy@commiecast.net> wrote in message
news:ubCdnWPkudV8uTjcRVn-qA@comcast.com...
>
> "Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
> news:znr1101318097k@trad...
> >
> > In article <-tqdne3G96gwXjncRVn-1A@comcast.com>
glenn.dowdy@commiecast.net
> writes:
> >
> > > www.lightscribe.com
> >
> > Are disks, drives, and software actually available yet? And at what
> > cost? I think not. An interesting concept, but well apart from the
> > question asked.
> >
> You'll see'em soon. I've got mine, but I'm on the project team ;) 
>
> > Anyone can shoot links, but unless the product is available it doesn't
> > solve a problem. And until the cost of "Lightscribale" media is
> > comprable to a disk plus a label, it will just be a cool yuppie toy
> > (for which we can be thankful, because that's what makes the cost
> > drop).
> >
>
> Media pricing will be comparable to disc plus label. Additionally, it
solves
> the DVD+R labeling problems.
>
> Drives will also be competitive with non-LightScribe drives.
>
> Glenn D.
>
>
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 4:40:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Troy" <alternate-root@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:4Kapd.321026$nl.19522@pd7tw3no...
> Glen.....how long does it take to print a full coverage image?
>
> Is there any way to get a print sample?
>
> I own a CD duplication business and we run 4 rimage proteges with prism
> printers and one automated Everest printer.
>
> How is the quality compaired to the prisms?.It looks kind of washed out in
> the pictures on the site.
>
> How would something like this stand up in 24hr production if it were
> packaged as an automated printer only?.Any idea of copies per life of the
> unit?
>
> I know this is a lot of questions but I am very interested in new printing
> technology.
>
I'll have someone contact you offline.
November 25, 2004 5:04:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ink is still ink...unless you seal the top of the CD with a spray or CD
laminator (but they are expensive)



Kurt Albershardt <kurt@nv.net> wrote in message
news:30krntF2rrlqpU1@uni-berlin.de...
> agent86 wrote:
> > Richard Crowley wrote:
> >
> >>>> I recomend inkjet printable CD's with an also cheap inkjet printer. I
use
> >>>> a Canon i865 with Taiyo Yuden Tuff-Coat Inkjet White printable
> >>>> CD-R(PRI53315-80P). The coating gives an extra protection for the
data
> >>>> layer. With the printer you can put not only basic information but
quite a
> >>>> lot of information on the disk, including high resolution images.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Do these use the same water soluble inks as ink jet printing on paper?
> >>
> >>
> >> As a user of an Epson Stylus Photo R300 inkjet printer, the
> >> answer to Agent86's question is, yes, it uses the same water-
> >> soluble ink as for printing on paper.
> >
> >
> > Exactly. I find inkjets mostly worthless for much of anything because
the
> > inks are not waterproof when dry
>
> Depends on the inkjet. Some of the higher end Epsons use pigment ink.
> <http://www.epson.com.sg/innovations/InksUltraChrome.sht...;
> <http://www.pictureline.com/newsletter/2004/november/ink...;
>
> The R800 ($399 list) can print on CDs.
>
>
>
>
> > (plus, the ink cartriges are just so damn
> > expensive, compared to laser toner).
>
> If you're just printing on CD's they don't cost all that much. For
general purpose office needs, a laser is much less expensive to own.
>
November 25, 2004 5:04:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Troy wrote:

> Ink is still ink...unless you seal the top of the CD with a spray or CD
> laminator (but they are expensive)

So, what process is used to print the top of (major label) pressed CDs?
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 5:04:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"agent86" wrote ...
> So, what process is used to print the top of (major label)
> pressed CDs?

Screen printing (aka "silk-screen") with ink/paint optimized
for printing on optical disks. Same method used to print on
T-shirts, equipment panels, and a wide variety of industrial
and consumer products.
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 10:09:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <10qa1ls2stmema0@corp.supernews.com> rcrowley7@xprt.net writes:

> > LightScribe

> It is a cool idea, but too little, too expensive, too late, I fear.

Hey, it's digital marketing. They'll always be able to sell The Next
Great Thing. Your next computer will have a Lightscribe drive so
you'll want to buy the disks.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 10:09:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <aF8pd.54048$IQ.20043@bignews6.bellsouth.net> jakethedog@backyard.net writes:

> I'm still waiting for color lasers to
> come down in price (for paper), but the thermal printers sound like they
> have potential for CD-Rs.

A couple of years ago, Casio (I think) came out with a dedicated
thermal printer for CDs that was pretty cheap, around $100 as I
recall, but the "ink" ran about half a buck per disk for a pretty
simple label (which was all it was capable of printing). I don't think
I ever saw one outside a trade show, nor a later model.

For about a year now, I've been threatening to get a Brother laser
printer for paper as soon as I run out of ink for my current inkjet.
But while the cost of the printer has come down to around $100 the
toner is still up there.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 10:09:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <odydnb1vrO7DuTjcRVn-pA@comcast.com> glenn.dowdy@commiecast.net writes:

> The LightScribe enabled drives use the same laser that's used to write the
> data side with.

Are you sure? That wasn't clear from the poop on the web site, and
they do talk about a "Lightscribe" drive. Different firmware, I guess,
to understand writing the label.

> Media won't be that much more expensive than standard CD-Rs, and they'll
> have a much better resolution.

Well, Sony says "only a few cents more than a standard CD-R, but I
suspect that it will be a quite a while before there's more than one
supplier, so to them, the base price of a disk is probably still close
to a buck (plus a few cents).

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
November 25, 2004 10:18:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

They use different types of inks such as plastic inks and UV inks.It is a
different process.Usually done by silkscreen or offset press.



agent86 <maxwellsmart@control.gov> wrote in message
news:zYcpd.100623$Tq1.75078@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> Troy wrote:
>
> > Ink is still ink...unless you seal the top of the CD with a spray or CD
> > laminator (but they are expensive)
>
> So, what process is used to print the top of (major label) pressed CDs?
>
November 25, 2004 10:22:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I prefer printing on thermal white top DVDRs.Usually when printing DVDRs we
use the Everest printer that prints right to the center hole.It looks better
than silkscreening on pressed DVDs.It has magazine quality.



Glenn Dowdy <glenn.dowdy@commiecast.net> wrote in message
news:p qydnQfzLNGq0DjcRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
>
> "Troy" <alternate-root@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:LBapd.321018$nl.173599@pd7tw3no...
> > I agree Richard ...."to little to late" ......thermal printing is the
way
> to
> > go.Its cheap and durable.
> >
> How does thermal work on DVDRs?
>
> Glenn D.
>
>
November 25, 2004 10:26:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

It actually is a little different printing on a DVDR compaired to a CDR.When
you print just black thermal on a silver top DVDR it looks a little
strange,kind of like printing black on a mirror,at least it has been with
the DVDRs I have used.We prefer to use thermal white top DVDRs and print
them full color on top.Black also looks great on the white background.


Richard Crowley <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:10qaui8nsevo4e7@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.dowdy@commiecast.net> wrote in message
> news:p qydnQfzLNGq0DjcRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
> >
> > "Troy" <alternate-root@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > news:LBapd.321018$nl.173599@pd7tw3no...
> >> I agree Richard ...."to little to late" ......thermal printing is the
way
> > to
> >> go.Its cheap and durable.
> >>
> > How does thermal work on DVDRs?
>
> Why would it be any different than on CDRs?
>
>
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 10:26:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> "Glenn Dowdy" wrote ...
> > How does thermal work on DVDRs?

Troy" wrote ...
> It actually is a little different printing on a DVDR compaired
> to a CDR.When you print just black thermal on a silver top
> DVDR it looks a little strange,kind of like printing black on a
> mirror,at least it has been with the DVDRs I have used.We prefer
> to use thermal white top DVDRs and print them full color on
> top.Black also looks great on the white background.

I guess I didn't understand the question OR the answer.
Thermal printing on "silver" disks looks the same whether they
are CDR or DVDR. Printing on white "printable" disks looks
the same whether it is a CDR or DVDR disc.
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 12:53:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1101348070k@trad...
>
> In article <aF8pd.54048$IQ.20043@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
> jakethedog@backyard.net writes:
>
>> I'm still waiting for color lasers to
>> come down in price (for paper), but the thermal printers sound like they
>> have potential for CD-Rs.
>
> A couple of years ago, Casio (I think) came out with a dedicated
> thermal printer for CDs that was pretty cheap, around $100 as I
> recall, but the "ink" ran about half a buck per disk for a pretty
> simple label (which was all it was capable of printing). I don't think
> I ever saw one outside a trade show, nor a later model.
>
> For about a year now, I've been threatening to get a Brother laser
> printer for paper as soon as I run out of ink for my current inkjet.
> But while the cost of the printer has come down to around $100 the
> toner is still up there.
>
Mike, I've been using a couple of Samsung laser printers (1st one @ $65, 2nd
@ $120). I do at least two re-fills of the original toner cartridge. I'm
on my fourth re-fill on one now, which works like new.

Steve King
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 1:37:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <10qauujofvdmo93@corp.supernews.com> rcrowley7@xprt.net writes:

[Lightscribe]

> But still requires a special drive and special disks. Even if HP
> could get all drive makers to incorporate the firmware, the discs
> would likely still cost more because of the extra processing
> required and likely lower volume.

I notice that "Licensing" is right up there at the top of their web
page. If they offer the firmware at a trivially low price, then it
will find its way into most of the drives appearing on the market in a
couple of years. Then they can make their money on the disks.

If the laser arrangement is the same as a standard drive as Glenn
says, I suppose that you burn the audio side of the disk, then turn it
over and burn the label side. I'd guess that this takes longer than
printing and sticking a paper label. People don't like stuff that
makes them wait, particularly when they can't see what's happening.
That's why we have 52X CD writers, and we still have impatient users.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 1:37:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" wrote ...
> If the laser arrangement is the same as a standard drive as Glenn
> says, I suppose that you burn the audio side of the disk, then turn it
> over and burn the label side. I'd guess that this takes longer than
> printing and sticking a paper label. People don't like stuff that
> makes them wait, particularly when they can't see what's happening.
> That's why we have 52X CD writers, and we still have impatient users.

Not to mention that it is black&white only while you can print
full color (photographic quality, even) with inkjet, whether on
labels or directly on the disc.
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 6:25:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article <aF8pd.54048$IQ.20043@bignews6.bellsouth.net> jakethedog@backyard.net writes:
>
> > I'm still waiting for color lasers to
> > come down in price (for paper), but the thermal printers sound like they
> > have potential for CD-Rs.
>
> A couple of years ago, Casio (I think) came out with a dedicated
> thermal printer for CDs that was pretty cheap, around $100 as I
> recall, but the "ink" ran about half a buck per disk for a pretty
> simple label (which was all it was capable of printing). I don't think
> I ever saw one outside a trade show, nor a later model.
>
> For about a year now, I've been threatening to get a Brother laser
> printer for paper as soon as I run out of ink for my current inkjet.
> But while the cost of the printer has come down to around $100 the
> toner is still up there.

I picked up a laserjet 4si for 50 bucks at an auction a couple years
ago. Haven't even bought a new toner cartridge for it yet, as the one
that it came with was mostly full. You can find some great deals at
auction houses, you can also find people with more money than
brains.

--Dale
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 6:25:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <41A5F9ED.A116D20C@cybercom.net> dale@cybercom.net writes:

> I picked up a laserjet 4si for 50 bucks at an auction a couple years
> ago. Haven't even bought a new toner cartridge for it yet, as the one
> that it came with was mostly full. You can find some great deals at
> auction houses, you can also find people with more money than
> brains.

There's a pretty good used computer store around here that regularly
has 4si printers for between $60 and $100 depending on age, condition,
and amount of memory installed. But it's just a couple of inches too
big for where I want to put it - not to say that I can't move
something to make room for it. But I'm also a bit concerned about
power consumption. I think that model was still from the period where
there wasn't significantly lower standby power. This whole corner of
the house where the computers are is on a single 15A circuit so I
don't want to have a couple of hundred watts worth of printer sitting
there drawing current all the time.

The new Brother printers draw much less current printing, and very
little when idle.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
November 26, 2004 12:52:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1101397782k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
>There's a pretty good used computer store around here that regularly
>has 4si printers for between $60 and $100 depending on age, condition,
>and amount of memory installed. But it's just a couple of inches too
>big for where I want to put it - not to say that I can't move
>something to make room for it. But I'm also a bit concerned about
>power consumption. I think that model was still from the period where
>there wasn't significantly lower standby power. This whole corner of
>the house where the computers are is on a single 15A circuit so I
>don't want to have a couple of hundred watts worth of printer sitting
>there drawing current all the time.

The 4si has a power-saving standby mode, but the 3si does not. (The
3si is the same mechanical transport with a different processor...
postscript rendering on the 3si is also noticeably slower).

The 4M and 4M+ printers are probably a better choice if you want
something smaller. The transport speed is about a third of what the
4si speed is, but the postscript rendering is about half as fast. It
takes up less than half the desk space. SOME of the 4M printers have
a power saving standby mode and some do not; it depends on the firmware
revision. All of the 5M printers do; the 5M is mechanically similar
but not quite identical to the 4M and has much more advanced electronics.

>The new Brother printers draw much less current printing, and very
>little when idle.

Yes, but just wait until it comes time to change the print cartridge....
they cost as much as a new printer.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
November 26, 2004 12:52:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article <znr1101397782k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
>> There's a pretty good used computer store around here that regularly
>> has 4si printers for between $60 and $100 depending on age, condition,
>> and amount of memory installed. But it's just a couple of inches too
>> big for where I want to put it - not to say that I can't move
>> something to make room for it. But I'm also a bit concerned about
>> power consumption. I think that model was still from the period where
>> there wasn't significantly lower standby power. This whole corner of
>> the house where the computers are is on a single 15A circuit so I
>> don't want to have a couple of hundred watts worth of printer sitting
>> there drawing current all the time.
>
>
> The 4si has a power-saving standby mode, but the 3si does not. (The
> 3si is the same mechanical transport with a different processor...
> postscript rendering on the 3si is also noticeably slower).
>
> The 4M and 4M+ printers are probably a better choice if you want
> something smaller. The transport speed is about a third of what the
> 4si speed is, but the postscript rendering is about half as fast. It
> takes up less than half the desk space. SOME of the 4M printers have
> a power saving standby mode and some do not; it depends on the firmware
> revision. All of the 5M printers do; the 5M is mechanically similar
> but not quite identical to the 4M and has much more advanced electronics.

I have a 5P and a 6MP which are both going strong after what, 10 years now?




>> The new Brother printers draw much less current printing, and very
>> little when idle.
>
>
> Yes, but just wait until it comes time to change the print cartridge....
> they cost as much as a new printer.

Bingo. Some basic TCO math will help put things in perspective.

If you're buying new, the HP 2300 is a pretty nice little package. We have a 1300 here that seems to be doing okay. Avoid the 1100 at all costs, they have been nothing but trouble here.
Anonymous
November 26, 2004 1:05:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1101385788k@trad...
>
> In article <10qauujofvdmo93@corp.supernews.com> rcrowley7@xprt.net writes:
>
> [Lightscribe]
>
> > But still requires a special drive and special disks. Even if HP
> > could get all drive makers to incorporate the firmware, the discs
> > would likely still cost more because of the extra processing
> > required and likely lower volume.
>
> I notice that "Licensing" is right up there at the top of their web
> page. If they offer the firmware at a trivially low price, then it
> will find its way into most of the drives appearing on the market in a
> couple of years. Then they can make their money on the disks.
>
> If the laser arrangement is the same as a standard drive as Glenn
> says, I suppose that you burn the audio side of the disk, then turn it
> over and burn the label side.


"burn flip burn"

> I'd guess that this takes longer than
> printing and sticking a paper label.

At this point, yes. But you can't use a paper label or write on a DVD disc.

> People don't like stuff that
> makes them wait, particularly when they can't see what's happening.
> That's why we have 52X CD writers, and we still have impatient users.
>
And 52x is where they'll stay. Any faster and the media tends to come apart
catastrophically. I've seen photos of the testing.

Glenn D.
Anonymous
November 26, 2004 1:06:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:10qc6fkn84bnv58@corp.supernews.com...
> "Mike Rivers" wrote ...
> > If the laser arrangement is the same as a standard drive as Glenn
> > says, I suppose that you burn the audio side of the disk, then turn it
> > over and burn the label side. I'd guess that this takes longer than
> > printing and sticking a paper label. People don't like stuff that
> > makes them wait, particularly when they can't see what's happening.
> > That's why we have 52X CD writers, and we still have impatient users.
>
> Not to mention that it is black&white only while you can print
> full color (photographic quality, even) with inkjet, whether on
> labels or directly on the disc.
>
It's a first release, and will continue to get better and better. But that's
okay, HP sell ink cartridges, too.

Glenn D.
Anonymous
November 26, 2004 1:07:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:10qbh6et4rrqt4f@corp.supernews.com...
> > "Glenn Dowdy" wrote ...
> > > How does thermal work on DVDRs?
>
> Troy" wrote ...
> > It actually is a little different printing on a DVDR compaired
> > to a CDR.When you print just black thermal on a silver top
> > DVDR it looks a little strange,kind of like printing black on a
> > mirror,at least it has been with the DVDRs I have used.We prefer
> > to use thermal white top DVDRs and print them full color on
> > top.Black also looks great on the white background.
>
> I guess I didn't understand the question OR the answer.
> Thermal printing on "silver" disks looks the same whether they
> are CDR or DVDR. Printing on white "printable" disks looks
> the same whether it is a CDR or DVDR disc.
>
I know that DVDR has stricter labeling requirements due to the additional
coating. Blu-ray could be even more temperamental.

Glenn D.
Anonymous
November 26, 2004 1:08:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1101347885k@trad...
>
> In article <10qa1ls2stmema0@corp.supernews.com> rcrowley7@xprt.net writes:
>
> > > LightScribe
>
> > It is a cool idea, but too little, too expensive, too late, I fear.
>
> Hey, it's digital marketing. They'll always be able to sell The Next
> Great Thing. Your next computer will have a Lightscribe drive so
> you'll want to buy the disks.
>
:) 

Glenn D.
!