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soundroofing a small Jazz club (Police problems... help !)

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Anonymous
December 3, 2004 4:07:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have a small Jazz club... 50 square meters... actually shaped like a
rectangle. Its on a third floor and the building is made of iron and
concrete... Local ordinance only allows for 50 db of sound leakage
onto the streets... Our room has about 100 dbls max (we do swing and
bop Jazz, trios and quartets.)

Can anyone offer some tips on some economical soundproofing schemes.
We're having huge POLICE problems (story at my website
www.eddielandsberg.com) - - the police are shutting down my current
location... we need to move and soundproof...

I'm looking at a room, but its surrounded by windows... I know ideally
you want three layers of drywall (etc) on each side... but we don't
have that space or option... so I'm wondering if we have a second
wall, say an inch or so for the wall and line it with acoustic foam if
it might get us well under the 40...

Any tips.. 100 dbls isn't a lot of sound... at the current location
we had a single layer of drywall, but it was an old wooden building
and the neighboring business was RIGHT UP AGAINST our wall, and we
didn't have a double door. We got the sound down to 50-65 dbls....
the place was only 25 square meters.


Your help appreciated... Please respond privately... as I don't check
this board.

Eddie
shakehip at AOL dot com
www.eddielandsberg.com

P.S., Considering the police problems, ACOUSTIC ENVIRONMENT is the
least of my worries... I just want to keep as much sound in as
possible !
December 3, 2004 11:08:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

soulsambam@aol.com (virtuousohammondspoofer) wrote in message news:<dbd2fed3.0412030107.42c45d3f@posting.google.com>...

> Can anyone offer some tips on some economical soundproofing schemes.
> We're having huge POLICE problems (story at my website
> www.eddielandsberg.com) - - the police are shutting down my current
> location... we need to move and soundproof...

First off, you don't have a POLICE problem. You have a NOISE problem
that YOU have created. If someday you call the police and they don't
help, then maybe you have a police problem.
>
> I'm looking at a room, but its surrounded by windows... I know ideally
> you want three layers of drywall (etc) on each side... but we don't
> have that space or option... so I'm wondering if we have a second
> wall, say an inch or so for the wall and line it with acoustic foam if
> it might get us well under the 40...
>
Maybe, maybe not. I'd look for a different location with brick/block
walls.

> Any tips.. 100 dbls isn't a lot of sound...

To whom? At what time of day or night? It's plenty to me when I'm
trying to relax or sleep, or concentrate on work.

at the current location
> we had a single layer of drywall, but it was an old wooden building
> and the neighboring business was RIGHT UP AGAINST our wall, and we
> didn't have a double door. We got the sound down to 50-65 dbls....
> the place was only 25 square meters.
>
>
> Your help appreciated... Please respond privately... as I don't check
> this board.
>
If you think you have the right to make all the noise you want and
call it a police problem, and can't be bothered to check back here for
advice even tho you asked here, then my advice is to adjust your
attitude about other people. As above, I'd look for a different
location with brick/block walls. Be good to your neighbors, or your
problems will continue.

Mikey Wozniak
Nova Music Productions
This sig is haiku
Anonymous
December 3, 2004 11:17:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <OD%rd.2637$gs5.2582@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>,
"John Halliburton" <j_challiburton@ameritech.net> wrote:

> "virtuousohammondspoofer" <soulsambam@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:D bd2fed3.0412030107.42c45d3f@posting.google.com...
> > I have a small Jazz club... 50 square meters... actually shaped like a
> > rectangle. Its on a third floor and the building is made of iron and
> > concrete... Local ordinance only allows for 50 db of sound leakage
> > onto the streets...
>
> 50db at the street? Hell, a toilet flush is 67db as you sit...and you're on
> the third floor, so that's 10m or 30ft from the outside wall down to the
> street. Something doesn't add up.
>

I measured one of our powerflush toilets at 90 dB! Many of these sound
ordinances are entirely unrealistic. We're now contending with a local
ordinance that says if anyone complains, it's too loud by definition. And it
will apply to every source of sound, including power tools and animals.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
Related resources
Anonymous
December 3, 2004 1:12:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <dbd2fed3.0412030107.42c45d3f@posting.google.com> soulsambam@aol.com writes:

> I have a small Jazz club... 50 square meters... actually shaped like a
> rectangle. Its on a third floor and the building is made of iron and
> concrete... Local ordinance only allows for 50 db of sound leakage
> onto the streets... Our room has about 100 dbls max (we do swing and
> bop Jazz, trios and quartets.)

> I'm looking at a room, but its surrounded by windows...

You need to close up those windows. Chances are you're renting so you
don't want to knock them out and brick them up, but you can do
something like what I did in the back room of my house when I was
using it for a studio. I built a frame attached to the wall around the
window, then put two layers of particle board floor underlayment
(crummy looking but cheap) inside the frame, put a layer of rigid
Fiberglas on top of that, then stretched a piece of colored burlap
over the frame for appearance and to keep fingers out of the fiberglas
and the fiberglas out of noses. This plugs the hole pretty effectively
(you can caulk around the frame and the partricle board for more
effective isolation) and the fiberglas helps deaden the room a bit.
You may want to leave the fiberglas off the windows closer to the
stage so as not to deaden that area too much.

It will cost several hundred dollars for the materials, but it's
something that a few people handy with woodworking tools can do on a
Saturday afternoon.

> Your help appreciated... Please respond privately... as I don't check
> this board.

Too late. You post, you read. Sorry.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
December 3, 2004 9:49:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <526517d0.0412030808.1ca837f1@posting.google.com> novamusic@hotmail.com writes:

> > Any tips.. 100 dbls isn't a lot of sound...
>
> To whom? At what time of day or night? It's plenty to me when I'm
> trying to relax or sleep, or concentrate on work.

Actually, that's a lot. This must be the kind of jazz with a funk
drummer and horn section. A lot of people complain about movie theater
sound being too loud and that's nominally 85 dBA.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
December 4, 2004 4:43:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1102095405k@trad...
>
> In article <526517d0.0412030808.1ca837f1@posting.google.com>
novamusic@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > > Any tips.. 100 dbls isn't a lot of sound...
> >
> > To whom? At what time of day or night? It's plenty to me when I'm
> > trying to relax or sleep, or concentrate on work.
>
> Actually, that's a lot. This must be the kind of jazz with a funk
> drummer and horn section. A lot of people complain about movie theater
> sound being too loud and that's nominally 85 dBA.

Yeah, but they have to be loud so you can hear above the theater next door.

dtk
Anonymous
December 4, 2004 9:28:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>
> I measured one of our powerflush toilets at 90 dB! Many of these sound
> ordinances are entirely unrealistic. We're now contending with a local
> ordinance that says if anyone complains, it's too loud by definition. And it
> will apply to every source of sound, including power tools and animals.
>
> -Jay


Protest that ordinance! People can just hate on you at will with a
broad legislation like that! With a specific number, you can pull out
the Rat Shack SPL meter and show the "boys" your reading.
Anonymous
December 4, 2004 1:03:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

dt king <usenet001@@@leztoys.com> wrote:
>"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
>news:znr1102095405k@trad...
>> drummer and horn section. A lot of people complain about movie theater
>> sound being too loud and that's nominally 85 dBA.
>
>Yeah, but they have to be loud so you can hear above the theater next door.

The airport's calling to complain about the noise again! Planes can't take
off with that subwoofer going...
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
December 4, 2004 7:34:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

ego2001@hotmail.com (EGO) wrote in
news:a05b2823.0412040628.580474ad@posting.google.com:

>>
>> I measured one of our powerflush toilets at 90 dB! Many of these
>> sound ordinances are entirely unrealistic. We're now contending with
>> a local ordinance that says if anyone complains, it's too loud by
>> definition. And it will apply to every source of sound, including
>> power tools and animals.
>>
>> -Jay

> Protest that ordinance! People can just hate on you at will with a
> broad legislation like that! With a specific number, you can pull out
> the Rat Shack SPL meter and show the "boys" your reading.

More importantly, such an ordinance would not stand up to a court of
appeals.
December 5, 2004 1:07:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Carey Carlan <gulfjoe@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns95B575BD35E1gulfjoehotmailcom@207.69.189.191>...
> ego2001@hotmail.com (EGO) wrote in
> news:a05b2823.0412040628.580474ad@posting.google.com:
>
> >>
> >> I measured one of our powerflush toilets at 90 dB! Many of these
> >> sound ordinances are entirely unrealistic. We're now contending with
> >> a local ordinance that says if anyone complains, it's too loud by
> >> definition. And it will apply to every source of sound, including
> >> power tools and animals.
> >>
> >> -Jay
>
> > Protest that ordinance! People can just hate on you at will with a
> > broad legislation like that! With a specific number, you can pull out
> > the Rat Shack SPL meter and show the "boys" your reading.
>
> More importantly, such an ordinance would not stand up to a court of
> appeals.

I'm just curious - why not?

I myself favor SPL-based ordinances, but I must admit, the phrase
"Your right to swing your fist ends at my face" sure does seem
analogous to "Your right to make unnecessary noise ends at my ear". I
can sympathize with power tools sometimes, but, let's face it, noise
pollution is a problem and we all have to be a part of the solution.

Anyway, here's a link if anyone is interested.
http://www.nonoise.org/

Mikey Wozniak
Nova Music Productions
this sig is haiku
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 9:10:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mikey wrote:
> Carey Carlan <gulfjoe@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns95B575BD35E1gulfjoehotmailcom@207.69.189.191>...
>
>>ego2001@hotmail.com (EGO) wrote in
>>news:a05b2823.0412040628.580474ad@posting.google.com:
>>
>>
>>>>I measured one of our powerflush toilets at 90 dB! Many of these
>>>>sound ordinances are entirely unrealistic. We're now contending with
>>>>a local ordinance that says if anyone complains, it's too loud by
>>>>definition. And it will apply to every source of sound, including
>>>>power tools and animals.
>>>>
>>>>-Jay
>>
>>
>>
>>>Protest that ordinance! People can just hate on you at will with a
>>>broad legislation like that! With a specific number, you can pull out
>>>the Rat Shack SPL meter and show the "boys" your reading.
>>
>>More importantly, such an ordinance would not stand up to a court of
>>appeals.
>
>
> I'm just curious - why not?
>

I doubt many cornfields at 3am could achieve as low as 50 dB
as measured by the noise police
G
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 1:06:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I can easily turn my head or close my eyes if I don't like your shirt.
You can wear your shirt, but you don't have the right to force me to
look at it. Loud shirts are not invasive.

Loud sounds are. I cannot close my ears. I don't like to be invaded
with sound. Particularly with low frequencies, which are used as
weapons by our military (and probably others as well). It's how we got
Noriega out of his rabbit hole in Panama.

No reason why churchbells should be exempt. If (big if) anything should
be exempt, it should be only necessary (whatever that is) noise.
Emergency vehicles, some construction, etc.
Mikey Wozniak
Nova Music Productions
this sig is haiku
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 3:46:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Why don't you find out who the local cop jazz band is and invite them
and all of their cop friends over for a jam. Or you could just find out
who the guy is that you pay off.

In article <cosjj7$em7$1@panix2.panix.com>, Scott Dorsey
<kludge@panix.com> wrote:

> dt king <usenet001@@@leztoys.com> wrote:
> >"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
> >news:znr1102095405k@trad...
> >> drummer and horn section. A lot of people complain about movie theater
> >> sound being too loud and that's nominally 85 dBA.
> >
> >Yeah, but they have to be loud so you can hear above the theater next door.
>
> The airport's calling to complain about the noise again! Planes can't take
> off with that subwoofer going...
> --scott

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Anonymous
December 7, 2004 5:06:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

novamusic@hotmail.com (Mikey) wrote in
news:526517d0.0412051007.47b3647e@posting.google.com:

>> More importantly, such an ordinance would not stand up to a court of
>> appeals.
>
> I'm just curious - why not?

Because it isn't quantified.

A similar ordinance has been struck down twice in my city. The council
banned "too dark" window tinting. The courts said the language was too
vague and ruled it unenforceable.

"Too loud" is similarly hard to quantify. You don't have to add much to
make it stick, however.
!