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Technology Helps Singers Hit the Right Note

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Anonymous
December 4, 2004 12:50:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:50:19 -0600, Auntie B <Home@away.com> wrote:

>Looks like the jig is up!
>
>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=769&e=2... <snip>

That's been up for a long time, just ask Cher. Remember what Stern
did to Enrique Iglesias? Priceless! Hit me up via mail for a clip of
that show...STILL makes me laugh!

dB
Anonymous
December 4, 2004 8:15:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>From: Auntie B Home@away.com
>Date: 12/3/04 10:50 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <31cqfoF3a7bb2U2@individual.net>
>
>Looks like the jig is up!
>
>
>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=769&e=2...
sic_nm/music_pitch_dc
>

Your just now getting that?
December 4, 2004 12:27:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

what do you mean with Stern? that sounds hilarious! please describe the scenario.
Anonymous
December 4, 2004 3:22:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 4 Dec 2004 09:27:14 -0800, genericaudioperson@hotmail.com (xy)
wrote:

>what do you mean with Stern? that sounds hilarious! please describe the scenario. <snip>

OMG, it IS hilarious. Enrique Iglesias was doing a concert in Europe
somewhere (Greece?) a few years ago, and the rumor was he always lip
synched to a vocal track while the band played live, and that he
really couldn't sing. Evidently, someone on the board at this event
surreptitiously recorded the feed from his hand held mic (which quite
obviously was usually not in the PA mix at all) and later leaked it
out. Stern's producer got ahold of it, and they put it on Stern's
morning drive show nationwide. The noise Iglesias made doesn't even
resemble "singing" in the classic sense, and the comments and
reactions from Stern's crew makes it all the more funny. After
hearing the track, Stern challenged Iglesias to come into their
studio, which he later did, after word of his inability to sing at all
spread worldwide due to Stern's bit. They put him on a mic and had
him sing to a track of the band, and he actually DID sing it...not
that well, but he did get through it...sort of. IIRC, Iglesias
threatened suit against Stern and Viacom for airing the track, but
nothing came of it. Wonder why? One listen tells the story.

Unfortunately, I've lost the mp3 of that later event, but I'm sure
it's out there. The original one, though, had me laughing for hours.
It pretty much put a quick end to a phony career also, and is a pretty
strong indictment of the music industry as a whole.

The mp3 I have runs 5:11, 1.2 mb @ 32 mb/s rate, and is guaranteed to
get you into a belly laugh. Not wanting to upset the NG with a
binary, I'd be glad to email it to interested parties. Ping my email
should you desire a copy. Pay attention to the header above.

dB
Anonymous
December 4, 2004 10:13:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'd like to get a copy of that... can you post a link?


"DeserTBoB" <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote in message
news:D oi2r01l1ue6duq92crrq37kv1gr7jnaba@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:50:19 -0600, Auntie B <Home@away.com> wrote:
>
> >Looks like the jig is up!
> >
>
>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=769&e=2...
c_nm/music_pitch_dc <snip>
>
> That's been up for a long time, just ask Cher. Remember what Stern
> did to Enrique Iglesias? Priceless! Hit me up via mail for a clip of
> that show...STILL makes me laugh!
>
> dB
Anonymous
December 4, 2004 11:46:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2004-12-04, DeserTBoB <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote:

> That's been up for a long time, just ask Cher.

What really bugs me is people using the autotune effect, flattening
their voice a few cents just to intentionally trigger the effect, like
some kind of flanger. Seems to have been a fad for a while.

> Remember what Stern
> did to Enrique Iglesias?

No, what was the gist of it?
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 12:03:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"james of tucson" <fishbowl@radagast.home.conservatory.com> wrote in message
news:slrncr48ig.up9.fishbowl@radagast.home.conservatory.com...
> On 2004-12-04, DeserTBoB <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> That's been up for a long time, just ask Cher.
>
> What really bugs me is people using the autotune effect, flattening
> their voice a few cents just to intentionally trigger the effect, like
> some kind of flanger. Seems to have been a fad for a while.

That's the most egregious to me; using it on people who don't remotely need
it. I've heard younger people say they don't think a vocal sounds
"professional" (even if the vocalist is great) if it doesn't have that
screwed up phase effect (they don't put in those words of course) and
actually request it as a pure effect.
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 12:15:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I listened to it... (thanks db) and though it DOES sound very bad, what it
sounds like to me is someone singing without ANY monitoring. It seems a bit
unfair... if the ambient sound around him is really hot, he wouldn't be able
to hear himself well. I'm a singer, and though I'm not that great to begin
with, I'd probably sound that bad without monitoring.

On the other hand, maybe he does have IEMs with his voice? If so, then he
needs help.
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 12:15:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 21:15:39 GMT, "Particle Salad"
<mark@particlesalad.com> wrote:

>I listened to it... (thanks db) and though it DOES sound very bad, what it
>sounds like to me is someone singing without ANY monitoring. <snip>

I think that's how Iglesias' publicist tried to explain it away, but
to anyone familiar with the foibles of SR work, this is indeed a
possibility. If the foldback's dead, the band's churning up into the
110 dBA range and "slapback" echo from the venue is hitting him hard,
he probably hasn't got a clue as to what's really coming out of his
mouth IF he's trying to use his outer ear. However, as someone who's
studied voice and has recorded some pretty accomplished singers in the
classical genre, I easily note the lack of basics...diaphragm control
is absent, voice is way up in his pallette, just screaming away
aimlessly. That nasty little break into falsetto wasn't planned
either, I'm sure.

I don't buy the bit about it just being an "uneducated" voice, either;
anyone who ever heard Chuck Negron sing back in his heyday with NO
musical education at all knows he was a major natural talent from the
beginning. (Columbia REALLY screwed the pooch on his career and let
upstart Dunhill run away with 12 gold albums with that voice.) There
are those who can, and those who fake it...from what I hear, Enrique's
a posuer of the lowest order. Even in the studio live on a later
Stern "grudge match" show, his voice was hardly impressive at all. I
could just about do as well, and I would never attempt to pass myself
off as a "talent" unless buried in a chorus somewhere. Of course, as
Stern pointed out, there's always Milli Vanilli! They were as bad as
Enrique even WITH monitoring! Dunno about Boxcar Willie, though.

>It seems a bit
>unfair... if the ambient sound around him is really hot, he wouldn't be able
>to hear himself well. I'm a singer, and though I'm not that great to begin
>with, I'd probably sound that bad without monitoring. <snip>

Well, at least you ADMIT you're not that good to start with, while
this guy was passing himself off (with daddy's help, of course) as a
major new worldwide "talent."

>On the other hand, maybe he does have IEMs with his voice? If so, then he
>needs help. <snip>

"Help?" How 'bout a new career? LOL!

Glad you enjoyed the clip.

dB
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 12:15:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

DeserTBoB <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 21:15:39 GMT, "Particle Salad"
><mark@particlesalad.com> wrote:
>
>>I listened to it... (thanks db) and though it DOES sound very bad, what it
>>sounds like to me is someone singing without ANY monitoring. <snip>
>
>I think that's how Iglesias' publicist tried to explain it away, but
>to anyone familiar with the foibles of SR work, this is indeed a
>possibility. If the foldback's dead, the band's churning up into the
>110 dBA range and "slapback" echo from the venue is hitting him hard,
>he probably hasn't got a clue as to what's really coming out of his
>mouth IF he's trying to use his outer ear.

This is all absolutely true. BUT, the fact that anyone would consider
lipsynching to tape playback to be acceptable at ALL is a major issue.
Even if it's a playback of a recording made in a single take.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 1:04:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 4 Dec 2004 21:12:59 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>DeserTBoB <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote:
>>On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 21:15:39 GMT, "Particle Salad"
>><mark@particlesalad.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I listened to it... (thanks db) and though it DOES sound very bad, what it
>>>sounds like to me is someone singing without ANY monitoring. <snip>
>>
>>I think that's how Iglesias' publicist tried to explain it away, but
>>to anyone familiar with the foibles of SR work, this is indeed a
>>possibility. If the foldback's dead, the band's churning up into the
>>110 dBA range and "slapback" echo from the venue is hitting him hard,
>>he probably hasn't got a clue as to what's really coming out of his
>>mouth IF he's trying to use his outer ear. <snip>

I listened to this mp3 on a set of cans tonight and you CAN hear the
voice track going out over the PA in the leakage through his mic. HOW
anyone could be off pitch with all the pitch cues he was getting shows
me he's a no-talent shill. Even without foldback, an experienced
vocalist should at least be able to get CLOSE...which isn't to say
they may not be off here and there, but this is...well, as Robin said,
"Oh MY!"

dB
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 3:17:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> However, as someone who's
> studied voice and has recorded some pretty accomplished singers in the
> classical genre, I easily note the lack of basics...diaphragm control
> is absent, voice is way up in his pallette, just screaming away
> aimlessly. That nasty little break into falsetto wasn't planned
> either, I'm sure.
>

Yea... you're absolutely right.... though I feel a little sorry for him, not
too much. I never thought he had a good voice even on his studio
recordings. The quality of voice just isn't there... and, though there are
"artists" (Springsteen, Dylan) who might not have great pitch or technique,
Iglesis is neither a singer or an artist.
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 3:17:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 00:17:15 GMT, "Particle Salad"
<mark@particlesalad.com> wrote:

>Yea... you're absolutely right.... though I feel a little sorry for him, not
>too much. I never thought he had a good voice even on his studio
>recordings. The quality of voice just isn't there... and, though there are
>"artists" (Springsteen, Dylan) who might not have great pitch or technique,
>Iglesis is neither a singer or an artist. <snip>

Dylan and Springsteen can't sing either, but don't pretend to do so.
They're "message" artists, not "vocalists," per se, and you nailed
exactly the secret of their successes...the message their songs bring
to the listener. Ditto for your comment about Enrique; he's not in
either catagory. Either you have to have the pipes, or you have to
have a vision, and all this guy's got is a cucumber stuffed down his
pants on stage...that's it! Hmmm...haven't we seen that prop
somewhere before?? LOL!

People could easily equate Nancy Sinatra with Enrique as being
"neither." But, at least Nancy could be somewhat in the ballpark on
pitch live. Besides...anyone who was hypercritical of her back in
those days was really putting themselves in jeopardy of pissing off
"The Chairman"...NOT a smart move! Now, him...THERE was THE
vocalist...total perfection...did everything in ONE take, NO overdubs.
Like to see some of these so-called "stars" of today try THAT! Who
else could make a dog of a song like "High Hopes" bust the charts? NO
one.

dB
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 5:12:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 22:04:37 -0800, DeserTBoB <desertb@rglobal.net>
wrote:

>On 4 Dec 2004 21:12:59 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
>>DeserTBoB <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote:
>>>On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 21:15:39 GMT, "Particle Salad"
>>><mark@particlesalad.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I listened to it... (thanks db) and though it DOES sound very bad, what it
>>>>sounds like to me is someone singing without ANY monitoring. <snip>
>>>
>>>I think that's how Iglesias' publicist tried to explain it away, but
>>>to anyone familiar with the foibles of SR work, this is indeed a
>>>possibility. If the foldback's dead, the band's churning up into the
>>>110 dBA range and "slapback" echo from the venue is hitting him hard,
>>>he probably hasn't got a clue as to what's really coming out of his
>>>mouth IF he's trying to use his outer ear. <snip>
>
>I listened to this mp3 on a set of cans tonight and you CAN hear the
>voice track going out over the PA in the leakage through his mic. HOW
>anyone could be off pitch with all the pitch cues he was getting shows
>me he's a no-talent shill. Even without foldback, an experienced
>vocalist should at least be able to get CLOSE...which isn't to say
>they may not be off here and there, but this is...well, as Robin said,
>"Oh MY!"

Have you ever heard the Linda McCartney board tape? She sounds like
this Iglesias tape... maybe she was drunk, but her pitch is all over
the map. In the chorus of "Hey Jude" the audience is singing better
than Linda.

Al
December 5, 2004 8:45:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

http://www.madsb.com/enrique/indexeng.htm



"Particle Salad" <mark@particlesalad.com> wrote in message
news:D %nsd.28610$zx1.23158@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> I'd like to get a copy of that... can you post a link?
>
>
> "DeserTBoB" <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:D oi2r01l1ue6duq92crrq37kv1gr7jnaba@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:50:19 -0600, Auntie B <Home@away.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Looks like the jig is up!
> > >
> >
>
>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=769&e=2...
> c_nm/music_pitch_dc <snip>
> >
> > That's been up for a long time, just ask Cher. Remember what Stern
> > did to Enrique Iglesias? Priceless! Hit me up via mail for a clip of
> > that show...STILL makes me laugh!
> >
> > dB
>
>
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 1:10:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 02:12:51 -0800, play-on <playon@ATcomcast.net>
wrote:

>Have you ever heard the Linda McCartney board tape? She sounds like
>this Iglesias tape... maybe she was drunk, but her pitch is all over
>the map. In the chorus of "Hey Jude" the audience is singing better
>than Linda. <snip>

Stern made note of this during the program.

Stern: "Milli Vanilli's better'n him! Linda McCartney's better'n
him!"
someone else: "Uh...I wouldn't go THAT far...."

dB
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 5:17:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Enrique Iglesias was doing a concert in Europe somewhere (Greece?) a few
years ago, and the rumor was he always lip synched to a vocal track while the
band played live, and that he really couldn't sing. Evidently, someone on the
board at this event surreptitiously recorded the feed from his hand held mic
(which quite obviously was usually not in the PA mix at all) and later leaked
it out. Stern's producer got ahold of it, and they put it on Stern's morning
drive show nationwide. The noise Iglesias made doesn't even resemble "singing"
in the classic sense, and the comments and reactions from Stern's crew makes it
all the more funny.

A cheap shot IMO. A vocal obtained this way can't represent the artist's
abilities. It wasn't intended for the PA so monitoring probably wasn't used,
etc. I listened to the track. It was bad. But laughing for hours funny?
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 7:22:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I am very fussy about pitch when I do my demo tapes (originally 4 and 8 track,
now 24 track.) But old age, failing hearing and 15 years of smoking have made
it hard for me to stay exactly on pitch. Close, but no cigar. I purchased the
Antares Auto Tune a few years ago, and I find my self correcting a few odd
notes here and there. Hey, it's only a demo. But I find it very useful.

But my friends on the pro side of the biz tell me that a lot of pop sensations,
mostly teenie types, would be lost without it. A little pitch correction, a
vocal track flown in literally phrase by phrase, a little doubling, some
judicious compression and reverb, you TOO can be a teen sensation. (Names were
mentioned, but I omit them here. One of them is a really cute teenybopper. )
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 6:26:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>One of them is a really cute teenybopper. )

Who would have thought "The Buggles" were prophets?

Tom


"Blackburst" <blackburst@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041206112223.21648.00001460@mb-m11.aol.com...
> I am very fussy about pitch when I do my demo tapes (originally 4 and 8
track,
> now 24 track.) But old age, failing hearing and 15 years of smoking have
made
> it hard for me to stay exactly on pitch. Close, but no cigar. I purchased
the
> Antares Auto Tune a few years ago, and I find my self correcting a few odd
> notes here and there. Hey, it's only a demo. But I find it very useful.
>
> But my friends on the pro side of the biz tell me that a lot of pop
sensations,
> mostly teenie types, would be lost without it. A little pitch correction,
a
> vocal track flown in literally phrase by phrase, a little doubling, some
> judicious compression and reverb, you TOO can be a teen sensation. (Names
were
> mentioned, but I omit them here. One of them is a really cute
teenybopper. )
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 6:39:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Tommy B" <mrtomm@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:qYjtd.4197$0r.460@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >One of them is a really cute teenybopper. )
>
> Who would have thought "The Buggles" were prophets?

Everyone realized it immediately... c'mon, you did too.

Neil Henderson
!