Old Crown D150 or Samson Servo 260?

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Dik LeDoux" <dikledoux@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6sadnYJdabgS8yncRVn-jw@megapath.net

> I just got hold of an O-L-D Crown D150 power amp that seems to be in
> pretty good shape (other than having to keep it away from my Delta
> 1010 because it makes it hum if it's next to it). When comparing to
> my fairly new Samson Servo 260 - the 260 sounds like someone put a
> blanket over the speakers. But the Crown seems to make the
> troublesome node issues in my room a bit worse.

I might explain these symptoms by suggesting that the D150 could need to be
re-capped. The blanket over the speaker effect with the new amp is what some
of us might call deep bass. Different speakers, different setup, same
possible problem, different perceptions about the sound.

> Is the old D150 a decent candidate to power a set of nearfields (Event
> 20/20) if it's in good working order?

Relevant words: "in good working order". I'd like to see a frequency
response curve of it, when driving a 4 ohm resistive load.

> Is it possible that the freq.
> response on this old amp would be skewed, or would the Samson be less
> likely to be "flat" than the Crown at this point?

Old amps tend to lose their deep bass. You may like it in your setup, but it
detracts from the transparency of your amp in the big picture.

> I realize I've got to listen for a while and determine myself, but I
> wanted some alternate takes on the old Crown as a decent amp for this
> application.

If it is performing per its original specs, a D150 is not a bad amp. It's
not a great amp by modern standards, but its not all that bad. By modern
standards its not at its best with low impedance and reactive loads, for
example.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Dik LeDoux <dikledoux@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I just got hold of an O-L-D Crown D150 power amp that seems to be in pretty
>good shape (other than having to keep it away from my Delta 1010 because it
>makes it hum if it's next to it). When comparing to my fairly new Samson
>Servo 260 - the 260 sounds like someone put a blanket over the speakers.
>But the Crown seems to make the troublesome node issues in my room a bit
>worse.

Probably because with the D150 you actually have some low end, whereas
with the Samson the low end is being badly rolled off.

>Is the old D150 a decent candidate to power a set of nearfields (Event
>20/20) if it's in good working order? Is it possible that the freq.
>response on this old amp would be skewed, or would the Samson be less likely
>to be "flat" than the Crown at this point?

No, the D150 is shrieky and horrible-sounding. These were arguably the worst
sounding amps Crown ever made.

The fact that it probably does sound better than the Samson should tell you
something, though.

>I realize I've got to listen for a while and determine myself, but I wanted
>some alternate takes on the old Crown as a decent amp for this application.

Well, you have to realize you are comparing two pretty awful amplifiers.
What kind of speakers are you driving? That's really the first question.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Dik LeDoux <dikledoux@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
>news:cp1uu1$hjb$1@panix2.panix.com...
>> Probably because with the D150 you actually have some low end, whereas
>> with the Samson the low end is being badly rolled off.
>
>As I said in response to Arny's reply - they both do bottom ok, but the
>D150 has more pronounced highs.

No, if you are hearing room modes more with the D150, I bet a nickel it is
because the bottom end on the D150 is a lot more extended. (And knowing
the D150 and the Samson, I will tell you that in fact it is).

The more pronounced highs are due to high order even harmonic distortion
on peaks. Check out the specs on that wacky Raytheon op-amp in the D150!
Notice that even though they are more pronounced, there is much less of a
sense of detail on things like cymbals. They are louder, but smearier.

>> No, the D150 is shrieky and horrible-sounding. These were arguably the
>worst
>> sounding amps Crown ever made.
>>
>> The fact that it probably does sound better than the Samson should tell
>you
>> something, though.
>
>Not better, just different. I've been able to produce mixes with the Samson
>that translate well.

Yes, but have you enjoyed the process? Did you like what you were hearing?
Or did you start getting headaches four or five hours into a mix, and start
saying things like "THIS isn't what it sounded like when I was tracking?"

>> Well, you have to realize you are comparing two pretty awful amplifiers.
>> What kind of speakers are you driving? That's really the first question.
>
>Event 20/20's. I've grown pretty accustomed to the setup with the Samson,
>but came across the D150 and thought I'd at least check it out. Yeah,
>neither is a great amp and plenty of people don't like the 20/20's either,
>but that's what I have to work with at present. It's a room-over-the-garage
>kinda setup for my own use - not a commercial deal.

I don't like the 20/20 either, but it should be a fairly easy load to drive
that shouldn't require more than an Adcom 535 or something. Honestly, you
might want to borrow a top-grade amplifier for a weekend just so that you
have a good reference to compare what you are hearing with the Samson and
the D150. Both of them are going to have so many serious coloration issues
that it's going to be hard to compare them without a more neutral reference.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Dik LeDoux <dikledoux@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
>news:cp20bn$eh2$1@panix2.panix.com...
>> The more pronounced highs are due to high order even harmonic distortion
>> on peaks. Check out the specs on that wacky Raytheon op-amp in the D150!
>> Notice that even though they are more pronounced, there is much less of a
>> sense of detail on things like cymbals. They are louder, but smearier.
>
>I could check out the specs on the op-amp, but I'd have no idea of what I
>was looking at. I'm starting to think the same thing after more listening
>to recordings I'm familiar with. Even some of the "warmer" stuff seems to
>have a harsh high end through the Crown.

It's not just harsh, it's harsh and lacking in detail at the same time.
It's a very weird combination. I know a lot of folks actually liked those
amps because the lack of top end detail actually tamed the top end on the
Yamaha NS-10s. And they sell for good money still.

>> >Not better, just different. I've been able to produce mixes with the
>Samson
>> >that translate well.
>>
>> Yes, but have you enjoyed the process? Did you like what you were
>hearing?
>> Or did you start getting headaches four or five hours into a mix, and
>start
>> saying things like "THIS isn't what it sounded like when I was tracking?"
>
>So far, fatigue isn't a real problem - and I don't seem to get surprises
>from tracking to mix. I don't doubt that my familiarity with my system and
>room are a factor there. I've been able to get a pretty good handle on the
>mids and lows as I've mixed, though I've had to find ways to reality-check
>(listening at VERY low levels to double check bass levels, listening where
>my room node is most pronounced for evidence of additional mud or
>overtones). I may spring for an Adcom at some point, but I'd like to have a
>chance to listen to one first.

Try the Adcom, or the Parasound, or whatever mid-range standalone amp your
local high end home stereo dealer has in stock. Any good dealer should let
you take something home to try with a refundable deposit. Don't buy ANY
of this stuff without listening.

You probably won't notice a huge change in tonality, but you will notice
the same increase in bass extension (and corresponding increase in room
problems) that you have with the Crown, and you'll probably find the overall
sound just less harsh. As I said, the 20/20s are pretty easy to drive and
not the most analytical things around, so you won't notice as substantial a
difference as you might with other monitors.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Do you think maybe cutting Samson's hair was a euphomism for castrating him?

--
Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
Talking Dog Transducer Company
http://stephensank.com
5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
505-332-0336
Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
Payments preferred through Paypal.com
"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
news:1goe22x.jwixp9tk0krrN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> > No, the D150 is shrieky and horrible-sounding. These were arguably the worst
> > sounding amps Crown ever made.
>
> > The fact that it probably does sound better than the Samson should tell you
> > something, though.
>
> No wonder Delilah got pissed!
>
> --
> ha

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hence the low end being "badly rolled off".

Stephen Sank wrote:
> Do you think maybe cutting Samson's hair was a euphomism for castrating him?
>
> --
> Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
> Talking Dog Transducer Company
> http://stephensank.com
> 5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
> Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
> 505-332-0336
> Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
> Payments preferred through Paypal.com
> "hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
> news:1goe22x.jwixp9tk0krrN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
>
>>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>
>>
>>>No, the D150 is shrieky and horrible-sounding. These were arguably the worst
>>>sounding amps Crown ever made.
>>
>>>The fact that it probably does sound better than the Samson should tell you
>>>something, though.
>>
>>No wonder Delilah got pissed!
>>
>>--
>>ha
>
>
>