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Portable MD recorder w/ digital output?

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Anonymous
December 6, 2004 12:54:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'm looking for a minidisc recorder, preferable portable (so I can
record my
and learn to hate my own playing a little more) with digital output. I
see plenty
of MD recorders w/ digi in, but no portables w/ digi out.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Gantt
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 12:54:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Gantt,

Back in 1996 I think Sony and Tascam had a couple of *portastudio* type
units that *may* have had a coaxial digi output. I don't remember for sure,
but you might check around for one circa 1997, though it's also going to to
have *vintage* circa 1997 A/D converters........;O(

As for the newer stuff............................

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=...
rd=1

Won't really fit in your hip pocket though and it looks liike you're going
to need an external preamp/DI..... ;O)

You might want to look at the Zoom products that use the Smartmedia cards.
Pretty simple way to move your tracks to a PC ..............assuming that
this is what you wanted the digital output for.

http://www.zzounds.com/cat--Zoom-Recorders--3496

Never used, or even heard one though.

Cheers,

Doug Joyce
Animix Productions
http://www.graphicresultsofdurango.com/musicstudio.html




"Gantt Kushner" <gizmo@his.com> wrote in message
news:41B4728E.AF803049@his.com...
> I'm looking for a minidisc recorder, preferable portable (so I can
> record my
> and learn to hate my own playing a little more) with digital output. I
> see plenty
> of MD recorders w/ digi in, but no portables w/ digi out.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Gantt
>
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 2:51:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Portable MD recorder w/ digital output?

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Mon, Dec 6, 2004, 9:54am From: gizmo@his.com
(Gantt Kushner)
I'm looking for a minidisc recorder, preferable portable (so I can
record my
and learn to hate my own playing a little more) with digital output. I
see plenty
of MD recorders w/ digi in, but no portables w/ digi out.
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Gantt <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

The HHb MDP-500 has SPDIF outs on both coax rca and optical on toslink.
It also has USB outs. It's about $1400.

Eric
Related resources
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 3:43:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <41B4728E.AF803049@his.com> gizmo@his.com writes:

> I see plenty
> of MD recorders w/ digi in, but no portables w/ digi out.
>
> Any ideas?

Yeah. Write to Sony. They nixed the concept of digital output on
portables because it would enable you to make a perfect clone of a
recording you shouldn't. They seem to ignore the fact that you might
actually make a recording that you actually have the right to clone.

There are several tabletop and rack-mounted MD players that have
S/PDIF ouptut. I guess they figure that if you buy two decks (the
portable and the stationary one) you've spent enough money with them
so that it's OK to make clones.

I'm a big fan of the Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox 3. It makes
recordings better than it has a right to for the price and you can
transfer them to a computer as files from a USB or Firewire port. It's
discontinued, but Creative Labs seems to always have an eBay auction
going for refurbished units. It's been holding me over since my
portable DAT died and until I find the ideal replacement.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 5:52:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:
> Yeah. Write to Sony. They nixed the concept of digital output on
> portables because it would enable you to make a perfect clone of a
> recording you shouldn't. They seem to ignore the fact that you might
> actually make a recording that you actually have the right to clone.

I got a Sony MZ-r5ST back around '98 or '99, ordered direct from Japan
via instructions at minidisk.org. It has a detachable portable
recording/playback unit that you can then plonk back into the mother
ship and do digital i/o via Toslink (optical). Definitely a consumer MD
unit (includes SCMS), but it's worked fine for me. I don't use it much
anymore, in favor of laptop field recording.
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 8:04:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Some of the pro decks have digital outs... The HHB has one (USB as well),
but it is a $1500 Minidisc recorder.

--Ben

--
Benjamin Maas
Fifth Circle Audio
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.fifthcircle.com

Please remove "Nospam" from address for replies

"Gantt Kushner" <gizmo@his.com> wrote in message
news:41B4728E.AF803049@his.com...
> I'm looking for a minidisc recorder, preferable portable (so I can
> record my
> and learn to hate my own playing a little more) with digital output. I
> see plenty
> of MD recorders w/ digi in, but no portables w/ digi out.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Gantt
>
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 8:32:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Gantt Kushner wrote:
> I'm looking for a minidisc recorder, preferable portable (so I can
> record my
> and learn to hate my own playing a little more) with digital output.

I doubt they exist. Take a look at <http://www.minidisc.org&gt;, maybe I'm
wrong.

On the other hands, MD decks (with digital I/O) are sold for very little
money on e*ay these days.

Johann
--
Beste Grüße in die Mietskaserne Sie _Arschloch_,
König
Es heist TOFU und außerdem, der Ton macht die Musik...
(André König in <bksa4j$oii$06$1@news.t-online.com>)
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 9:09:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 6 Dec 2004 12:43:41 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote:
>
>Yeah. Write to Sony. They nixed the concept of digital output on
>portables because it would enable you to make a perfect clone of a
>recording you shouldn't. They seem to ignore the fact that you might
>actually make a recording that you actually have the right to clone.
>

Sony MD can only deal with compressed audio so a perfect clone of
what?


Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10
@/
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 12:19:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Frank Vuotto wrote:
> On 6 Dec 2004 12:43:41 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote:
>
>>Yeah. Write to Sony. They nixed the concept of digital output on
>>portables because it would enable you to make a perfect clone of a
>>recording you shouldn't. They seem to ignore the fact that you might
>>actually make a recording that you actually have the right to clone.
>>
>
>
> Sony MD can only deal with compressed audio so a perfect clone of
> what?

Prezactly. That group at Sony is run by utter morons.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 2:19:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I believe the most expensive of the new Hi-MD units allow you to record analog
signals and dump them as digital to your computer. They don't allow the old
disks to be dumped digitally, though. Sony has apparently also released
software that converts from minidisc format to wav files.

-lee-
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 5:57:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Frank Vuotto wrote:

> On 6 Dec 2004 12:43:41 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote:
>
>>Yeah. Write to Sony. They nixed the concept of digital output on
>>portables because it would enable you to make a perfect clone of a
>>recording you shouldn't. They seem to ignore the fact that you might
>>actually make a recording that you actually have the right to clone.
>>
>
>
> Sony MD can only deal with compressed audio so a perfect clone of
> what?

A perfect clone of the uncompressed PCM data, which could then be
written to a CD or other medium without any further loss beyond
what you're already getting when you play back the minidisc?

- Logan
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 6:50:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2004-12-07, Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

>> Sony MD can only deal with compressed audio so a perfect clone of
>> what?
>
> A perfect clone of the uncompressed PCM data, which could then be
> written to a CD or other medium without any further loss beyond
> what you're already getting when you play back the minidisc?

Yes! A clean signal path, fully in the digital domain, is of far
more significance than the small amount of high freq attenuation and
dynamic range squishing caused by the ATRAC compression.

Digital out on a MD recorder would put "good enough" audio in your hand,
powered by a single AA battery, with a medium costing less than a buck.

I wouldn't have a problem with aberration caused by ATRAC, but I have a
BIG problem with what comes out of the DAC and out the stupid headphone
jack. Instead of being revolutionary, it's just marginally better than
a cassette recorder.

More importantly, it asserts some kind of Sony control over my work,
which I would regard as a waiver of rights were I to use such a thing.
I don't give Sony any authority to prevent me from working with my own
music in any domain, and so I cannot use this kind of recorder without
abridging my rights. Gets into a life-or-death issue pretty quickly,
and I just can't go there.
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 6:50:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

james of tucson wrote:

> I wouldn't have a problem with aberration caused by ATRAC, but I have a
> BIG problem with what comes out of the DAC and out the stupid headphone
> jack. Instead of being revolutionary, it's just marginally better than
> a cassette recorder.

That's not at all what my measurements of a Sony R55 and an
Aiwa F77 (I think it was.) Flat as a ruler round trip on a
sinusoidal sweep and less than .1% distortion.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 6:50:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:cp3eln22v27@enews2.newsguy.com...
>
>
> james of tucson wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't have a problem with aberration caused by ATRAC, but I have a
>> BIG problem with what comes out of the DAC and out the stupid headphone
>> jack. Instead of being revolutionary, it's just marginally better than
>> a cassette recorder.
>
> That's not at all what my measurements of a Sony R55 and an Aiwa F77 (I
> think it was.) Flat as a ruler round trip on a sinusoidal sweep and less
> than .1% distortion.

Surely you don't think that performance with simple sine
waves is indicitave of its ability to handle complex wave-
forms? Especially something as dynamic and non-linear
as ATRAC?
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 6:50:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I bought an MD to record audio at a wedding. Every time I see the
dammed thing get pissed at Sony because of the cool item it could have
been and the POS it actually is.

I've been thinking of getting something like this little Fostex MR8
gadget:

http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-FOS-MR8.html



Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10
@/
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 6:50:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Richard Crowley wrote:
> "Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
> news:cp3eln22v27@enews2.newsguy.com...
>
>>
>>james of tucson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I wouldn't have a problem with aberration caused by ATRAC, but I have a
>>>BIG problem with what comes out of the DAC and out the stupid headphone
>>>jack. Instead of being revolutionary, it's just marginally better than
>>>a cassette recorder.
>>
>>That's not at all what my measurements of a Sony R55 and an Aiwa F77 (I
>>think it was.) Flat as a ruler round trip on a sinusoidal sweep and less
>>than .1% distortion.
>
>
> Surely you don't think that performance with simple sine
> waves is indicitave of its ability to handle complex wave-
> forms? Especially something as dynamic and non-linear
> as ATRAC?

Right. My purpose was precisely to avoid ATRAC and see what
the electronics alone did on a round trip.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 7:11:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< Yes! A clean signal path, fully in the digital domain, is of far
more significance than the small amount of high freq attenuation and
dynamic range squishing caused by the ATRAC compression.>>

Dynamic range is not squished by ATRAC. Some instrument sustains chase out
slightly faster in complex ensembles (I notice it very slightly on triangle in
full orchestras,) but dynamics are unsquished.

<<I wouldn't have a problem with aberration caused by ATRAC, but I have a
BIG problem with what comes out of the DAC and out the stupid headphone
jack. Instead of being revolutionary, it's just marginally better than
a cassette recorder.>>

Though flawed, it's significantly better than cassette.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 9:31:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <if0ar05l73vfh3kts072qkogtud3be7ph5@4ax.com> deepthrob@hotmail.com writes:

> Sony MD can only deal with compressed audio so a perfect clone of
> what?

A perfect clone of the compressed audio, of course. You wouldn't want
to mess up your pristine ATRAC files with a pass through one of those
horrid D/A converters, and then perform an evil A/D destruction on it,
would you?

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 10:13:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Richard Crowley wrote:

> "Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
> news:cp3eln22v27@enews2.newsguy.com...

>>james of tucson wrote:

>>>I wouldn't have a problem with aberration caused by ATRAC, but I have a
>>>BIG problem with what comes out of the DAC and out the stupid headphone
>>>jack.

>>That's not at all what my measurements of a Sony R55 and an Aiwa F77 (I
>>think it was.) Flat as a ruler round trip on a sinusoidal sweep and less
>>than .1% distortion.

> Surely you don't think that performance with simple sine
> waves is indicitave of its ability to handle complex wave-
> forms?

I think he was referring to the quality of the DAC. Using a
signal (such as a sine wave) that would be a best case for
ATRAC compression would actually be a very good way to test
the quality of the DAC (and ADC) on the thing, since there is
no way to test those parts in isolation.

- Logan
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 4:03:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <41B4728E.AF803049@his.com>, gizmo@his.com says...
> I see plenty
> of MD recorders w/ digi in, but no portables w/ digi out.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Gantt
>
>
Perhaps I misunderstand the question, but the Hi-MD recorders from Sony
do 44kHz pcm recording with digital output (USB or SPDIF). If you use
USB output, you need to run a program afterwards that converts the un-
compressed-albeit-proprietary Sony format to a .wav file. I've done it
and it works fine.

Jason
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 4:03:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"J Warren" <nobody@invalid.urp> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c216e766151514e9897ff@news.verizon.net...
> In article <41B4728E.AF803049@his.com>, gizmo@his.com says...
> > I see plenty
> > of MD recorders w/ digi in, but no portables w/ digi out.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Gantt
> >
> >
> Perhaps I misunderstand the question, but the Hi-MD recorders from Sony
> do 44kHz pcm recording with digital output (USB or SPDIF). If you use
> USB output, you need to run a program afterwards that converts the un-
> compressed-albeit-proprietary Sony format to a .wav file. I've done it
> and it works fine.
>
> Jason

Try doing it the second time via USB from the same MD and you will
understand the problem.... no backup....

Rgds:
Eric
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 11:42:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

They have copy protection on the computer transfer?

How weird.

Gantt

"Eric K. Weber" wrote:

> "J Warren" <nobody@invalid.urp> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1c216e766151514e9897ff@news.verizon.net...
> > In article <41B4728E.AF803049@his.com>, gizmo@his.com says...
> > > I see plenty
> > > of MD recorders w/ digi in, but no portables w/ digi out.
> > >
> > > Any ideas?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Gantt
> > >
> > >
> > Perhaps I misunderstand the question, but the Hi-MD recorders from Sony
> > do 44kHz pcm recording with digital output (USB or SPDIF). If you use
> > USB output, you need to run a program afterwards that converts the un-
> > compressed-albeit-proprietary Sony format to a .wav file. I've done it
> > and it works fine.
> >
> > Jason
>
> Try doing it the second time via USB from the same MD and you will
> understand the problem.... no backup....
>
> Rgds:
> Eric
!