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Making all tracks on a CD the same percieved volume

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Anonymous
December 10, 2004 12:52:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I've recorded a few tracks for a local band and the CD of the tracks has
me reaching for the volume knob between tracks. They're all at different
volume levels. I recorded the tracks with Logic (on a mac G4) and burn
the CD with iTunes.

I recognise that iTunes is possibly not the best software package for
this job and someone recommended a program called DSP Quattro.

Can anyone share their experiences and help me find a solution to the
question: how do I make all the tracks on a burnt CD the same volume?

Cheers
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 12:52:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"karambos" <karambos@thefair.de> wrote in message
news:cpbo4p$1pb$1@athen03.muc.infineon.com

> Can anyone share their experiences and help me find a solution to the
> question: how do I make all the tracks on a burnt CD the same volume?

First off, you might not want to make all the tracks have the same volume.
Some songs sound better louder or softer.

Secondly, the time-honored method for doing this is to listen to the tracks,
and adjust the level of the track manually to suit.

I seem to recall that iTunes has a facility for doing this. If not, try
Audacity freeware.
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 12:52:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Depending on the kind of music you recorded and how similar the songs are,
you might be able to get away with simply normalizing the songs to 0 dB.

However, if the songs are so dynamically different that the peaks don't
correlate to the core volume in the same proportion then they will still not
have the same core volume despite normalization. If this is the case,
you'll need to adjust the volume in each song manually.

If you can't do this to your satisfaction then try using a plugin that shows
you a histogram of the songs. The histogram will show you the core volume
and the dynamic range of the music. Then you would adjust the gain
manually for each song until the core volumes are the same.

Cool Edit Pro and Steinberg Wavelab are good software for doing this kind of
work. The Izotope Ozone plugin is an excellent mastering tool which has
histograms built in. I'm sure there are also free plugins that have
histograms.

Tim

"karambos" <karambos@thefair.de> wrote in message
news:cpbo4p$1pb$1@athen03.muc.infineon.com...
> I've recorded a few tracks for a local band and the CD of the tracks has
> me reaching for the volume knob between tracks. They're all at different
> volume levels. I recorded the tracks with Logic (on a mac G4) and burn the
> CD with iTunes.
>
> I recognise that iTunes is possibly not the best software package for this
> job and someone recommended a program called DSP Quattro.
>
> Can anyone share their experiences and help me find a solution to the
> question: how do I make all the tracks on a burnt CD the same volume?
>
> Cheers
>



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Anonymous
December 10, 2004 12:52:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cpbo4p$1pb$1@athen03.muc.infineon.com> karambos@thefair.de writes:

> Can anyone share their experiences and help me find a solution to the
> question: how do I make all the tracks on a burnt CD the same volume?

Adjust the volume of each track before you burn the CD. There is no
magic button that works as well as your ears and hands.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 4:01:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "karambos" <karambos@thefair.de> wrote in message
> news:cpbo4p$1pb$1@athen03.muc.infineon.com
>
> > Can anyone share their experiences and help me find a solution to the
> > question: how do I make all the tracks on a burnt CD the same volume?
>
> First off, you might not want to make all the tracks have the same volume.
> Some songs sound better louder or softer.
>
> Secondly, the time-honored method for doing this is to listen to the tracks,
> and adjust the level of the track manually to suit.
>
> I seem to recall that iTunes has a facility for doing this. If not, try
> Audacity freeware.

This example is one reason why there are 'mastering houses'. It's their job to
make it sound right. :-)


Graham
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 4:01:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41B99E34.654B1194@hotmail.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> "karambos" <karambos@thefair.de> wrote in message
>> news:cpbo4p$1pb$1@athen03.muc.infineon.com
>>
>>> Can anyone share their experiences and help me find a solution to
>>> the question: how do I make all the tracks on a burnt CD the same
>>> volume?
>>
>> First off, you might not want to make all the tracks have the same
>> volume. Some songs sound better louder or softer.
>>
>> Secondly, the time-honored method for doing this is to listen to the
>> tracks, and adjust the level of the track manually to suit.
>>
>> I seem to recall that iTunes has a facility for doing this. If not,
>> try Audacity freeware.
>
> This example is one reason why there are 'mastering houses'. It's
> their job to make it sound right. :-)

I used to say that PCs turned every man into a computer operations manager,

Now it seems that personal music players have turned every man into a
mastering engineer.
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 4:40:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

What I like to do is to load all the CD tracks into a multi-track editor (like
Logic). I happen to use Adobe Audition (formerly Cool Edit Pro), but any
program will do.

Once they are in the different tracks, I can solo each track and bounce back
and forth between the tracks easily.

I then adjust the volumes for each of the tracks so that the perceived volume
is about the same. Audition has a tool to do this, but I prefer to do it by
ear. Sometimes I have to apply light overall compression to a track if I've
missed a particular quick spike in one part of the song, for example.

I like looking at the CD this way - it gives you a feel for the overall
project.

-lee-
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 6:29:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks to all for the replies.

Someone mentioned DSP Quattro. Does anyone have any experiences to share
with this software (or any other mastering software for the mac?

Cheers
Karl

Leoaw3 wrote:
> What I like to do is to load all the CD tracks into a multi-track editor (like
> Logic). I happen to use Adobe Audition (formerly Cool Edit Pro), but any
> program will do.
>
> Once they are in the different tracks, I can solo each track and bounce back
> and forth between the tracks easily.
>
> I then adjust the volumes for each of the tracks so that the perceived volume
> is about the same. Audition has a tool to do this, but I prefer to do it by
> ear. Sometimes I have to apply light overall compression to a track if I've
> missed a particular quick spike in one part of the song, for example.
>
> I like looking at the CD this way - it gives you a feel for the overall
> project.
>
> -lee-
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 6:39:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 12/10/04 2:52 AM, in article cpbo4p$1pb$1@athen03.muc.infineon.com,
"karambos" <karambos@thefair.de> wrote:


> Can anyone share their experiences and help me find a solution to the
> question: how do I make all the tracks on a burnt CD the same volume?

The absolute BEST way to do this is to call your mastering engineer and
schedule a session.

Why would you skip such an important part of making a finished product?

Allen
--
Allen Corneau
Mastering Engineer
Essential Sound Mastering
Houston, TX
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 6:59:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <BDDF1F61.10934%acorneau@flash.net> acorneau@flash.net writes:

> The absolute BEST way to do this is to call your mastering engineer and
> schedule a session.
>
> Why would you skip such an important part of making a finished product?

Maybe the "finished product" has only one intended listener - himself.
Doubt that would be worth the cost of the mastering job.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 8:33:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:W96dnYHNkv8VSyTcRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
> "Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:41B99E34.654B1194@hotmail.com
> >
> > This example is one reason why there are 'mastering houses'. It's
> > their job to make it sound right. :-)
>
> I used to say that PCs turned every man into a computer operations manager,
>
> Now it seems that personal music players have turned every man into a
> mastering engineer.


Well... you recommended one !!

It's a sure-fire fact that the only way this can be done with any accuracy
(as well as dignity) is to do it by ear. Normalization is a joke unless every
wavefile has undergone surgery or has otherwise already been somewhat
mastered... IE ripped files from finished CDs. The ear is still the best tool
for this one.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 10:00:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>
>The absolute BEST way to do this is to call your mastering engineer and
>schedule a session.
>Why would you skip such an important part of making a finished product?
>
>Allen

Because, Allen, I have recording software on my computer and why should I have
to hire some elitist high falutin' mastering engineer when I have the CD
burning software myself. Power to the people! Off the pig!
Oh, wait a minute, I was a mastering engineer for 30 years so I'm one of those
elitists.
Never mind.
Phil Brown
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 10:06:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

karambos wrote:


> Can anyone share their experiences and help me find a solution to the
> question: how do I make all the tracks on a burnt CD the same volume?



You might look at Jam 6 from Roxio, you can adjust individual track
volume, crossfades, etc. It also has a preview that plays the first
five seconds of a track, then the last five, the gap, then the first
five of the next track, so you can check the transitions and the song
order fairly quickly.
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 10:07:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You had me goin' there, Phil....
Anonymous
December 11, 2004 12:20:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Phil Brown wrote:

> >The absolute BEST way to do this is to call your mastering engineer and
> >schedule a session.
> >Why would you skip such an important part of making a finished product?
> >
> >Allen

> Because, Allen, I have recording software on my computer and why should I have
> to hire some elitist high falutin' mastering engineer when I have the CD
> burning software myself. Power to the people! Off the pig!
> Oh, wait a minute, I was a mastering engineer for 30 years so I'm one of those
> elitists.
> Never mind.

But you mastered using really good headphones, yeah?

--
ha
Anonymous
December 11, 2004 12:41:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
news:U5lud.3440$lZ6.1740@trnddc02...
>
> mastered... IE ripped files from finished CDs. The ear is still the best
> tool
> for this one.
>

Also remember the old carpenters rule to measure them all against a single
piece (song). If you balance each song to the next sequentially and are off
even a single dB, on a 10-song CD that's 10dB difference between the opening
and closing song. Burning a CD and putting it in shuffle play is a good way
to see if any songs "jump out" from the rest. It's also a great way to find
some sequences you may not have thought of.
December 11, 2004 1:07:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Not everyone has a budget for a mastering engineer.If its just a short run
release then do it yourself..if you are pressing thousands then yes hire a
mastering engineer.


Allen Corneau <acorneau@flash.net> wrote in message
news:BDDF1F61.10934%acorneau@flash.net...
> On 12/10/04 2:52 AM, in article cpbo4p$1pb$1@athen03.muc.infineon.com,
> "karambos" <karambos@thefair.de> wrote:
>
>
> > Can anyone share their experiences and help me find a solution to the
> > question: how do I make all the tracks on a burnt CD the same volume?
>
> The absolute BEST way to do this is to call your mastering engineer and
> schedule a session.
>
> Why would you skip such an important part of making a finished product?
>
> Allen
> --
> Allen Corneau
> Mastering Engineer
> Essential Sound Mastering
> Houston, TX
>
Anonymous
December 11, 2004 2:42:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 12/10/04 4:07 PM, in article S6pud.477697$%k.26665@pd7tw2no, "Troy"
<alternate-root@shaw.ca> wrote:

> Not everyone has a budget for a mastering engineer.

Have you ever had a band come to you and say, "We have X amount of money for
tracking, but we don't have any money for mixing"? Of course not. Mixing is
a vital component to the end result. Those that know better know that
mastering is just as vital, and it needs to be included in ANY size budget.

> If its just a short run release then do it yourself..if you are pressing
thousands then yes hire a mastering engineer.

"We're only recording two guitars and a vocal, so we can use the shitty
mic's and go right to cassette, right?"

Quantity does not dictate quality.

Allen
--
Allen Corneau
Mastering Engineer
Essential Sound Mastering
Houston, TX
December 11, 2004 4:33:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Have you ever had a band come to you and say, "We have X amount of money
for.........."

Yes all the time.Any band with half a brain wants to budget things with the
money they have to work with so they don't wind up spending all their hard
earned money on one part of the project and run out of money to mix it or to
have their CDs made

You can pay for the finest mixes in the world but they are no good to anyone
if you have run out of money and can't afford to have CDs made so others can
buy your product.

I have never worked with a band that has had millions of dollars to spend on
an unlimited budget,so until I do I sit down and budget for my clients so we
can meet or exceed their expectations..not dissapoint them.





Allen Corneau <acorneau@flash.net> wrote in message
news:BDDF9094.10A6B%acorneau@flash.net...
> On 12/10/04 4:07 PM, in article S6pud.477697$%k.26665@pd7tw2no, "Troy"
> <alternate-root@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> > Not everyone has a budget for a mastering engineer.
>
> Have you ever had a band come to you and say, "We have X amount of money
for
> tracking, but we don't have any money for mixing"? Of course not. Mixing
is
> a vital component to the end result. Those that know better know that
> mastering is just as vital, and it needs to be included in ANY size
budget.
>
> > If its just a short run release then do it yourself..if you are pressing
> thousands then yes hire a mastering engineer.
>
> "We're only recording two guitars and a vocal, so we can use the shitty
> mic's and go right to cassette, right?"
>
> Quantity does not dictate quality.
>
> Allen
> --
> Allen Corneau
> Mastering Engineer
> Essential Sound Mastering
> Houston, TX
>
>
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 1:45:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>You had me goin' there, Phil....

Glad to have brightened your day.
Phil Brown
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 3:24:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>karambos wrote:
>
>
>> Can anyone share their experiences and help me find a solution to the
>> question: how do I make all the tracks on a burnt CD the same volume?

Is it the overall volume? Or is it some sounds (bass drum, guitar, etc.) are
uneven?
If its over all then you need a two track software that has some sort of
automation so you can change the level at any given point on the time line.
If just the bass drum is uneven (or any other single instrument) then you may
need to start all over from tracking.
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 3:24:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 14 Dec 2004 00:24:09 GMT, bruwhaha58097238@aol.com (Raymond) wrote:

>>karambos wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Can anyone share their experiences and help me find a solution to the
>>> question: how do I make all the tracks on a burnt CD the same volume?
>
>Is it the overall volume? Or is it some sounds (bass drum, guitar, etc.) are
>uneven?
>If its over all then you need a two track software that has some sort of
>automation so you can change the level at any given point on the time line.
>If just the bass drum is uneven (or any other single instrument) then you may
>need to start all over from tracking.

Here's my trick for beginners -

After you mix, set all mixed song levels so the vocal is the same
percieved volume if you jump from the middle of one cut to the next,
despite the underlying mix not being consistent.

THEN do your overall compression / EQ / Maximize / whatever damage you
choose to the master. It's a good place to start. The voice is always
the tether, my son. Your perception will follow suit.

Your assumption about all cuts being the same volume is not the
question you should be asking, ESPECIALLY if you have no experience
mastering.



Good Luck.



Kurt Riemann
!