how does jitter sound?

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Hi there,

I wonder how jitter would sound like...

Actually, I had my new mic preamp connected
to my computer (w/ S/PDIF) and there was some
noise, but only when recording an distorted
guitar (using a SM57). And I'm not sure if
this could be "jitter sound" or something
like distortion by overdriving the SM57 in
the pre (I had to turn the gain down low
since it was a very hot signal).

I don't use any clock signal to sync the pre
(dbx386) and I'm even not sure if the cable
is a fully-qualified 75ohm RCA thingy or
just an over-priced RCA audio cable with
gold connectors (was around 13$).

Any suggestions or experiences with jitter?
Thank you very much.

Nudge

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks for the hint.
It was no jitter, then in my case.

Kind Regards
Nudge


Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Nudge" <big-chief@gmx.de> wrote in message
> news:31us1uF3dpufrU1@individual.net
>
>>Hi there,
>>
>>I wonder how jitter would sound like...
>>
>
> http://www.pcabx.com/technical/jitter_power/index.htm
>
>

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

>>Actually, I had my new mic preamp connected
>>to my computer (w/ S/PDIF) and there was some
>>noise, but only when recording an distorted
>>guitar (using a SM57). And I'm not sure if
>>this could be "jitter sound" or something
>>like distortion by overdriving the SM57 in
>>the pre (I had to turn the gain down low
>>since it was a very hot signal).
>
> Jitter has nothing to do with any of this. Jitter does not cause noise.
> It causes a sort of distortion, but one where the distortion products are
> very close in frequency to the original tone. It is a fairly subtle thing
> in comparison with what you are experiencing.
>
> You should like you're clipping the preamp. Put a pad on the preamp
> input and stop worrying so much.
> --scott

OK, I did. I turned the pre's -20dB pad on
and had the analog input well below -6dB,
varying the gain and digital output volume,
and kept it safely under -6db, sometimes
under -12dB. But it was still there.
And now I'm really worrying.

I would like you to listen to it:
http://www.lieber-media.de/mathias [...] _noise.mp3
(~ 700 KB) You can hear that especially at sec. 14 and 15.
It's a high-pitch crispy noise.

Could you give me your opinion about it?
Thank you very much.

Nudge

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1102950485k@trad
> In article <325du0F3hdngfU1@individual.net> big-chief@gmx.de writes:
>
>> I would like you to listen to it:
>
> I don't normally do this, but since it was a fairly short file I took
> a listen. It sounds like a pretty consistently distorted guitar to me
> and I can't tell any diference in the sound around 14-15 seconds.
> Either something is getting lost in the translation or I'm just not
> sensitive to the subtlties of horribly distorted guitar.
>
> Try the same thing with a clean guitar sound.

Ditto. It looks there is a certain note that when played, changes the
texture of the sound. However, isn't changing the texture the desired
outcome from playing a different note?

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article <znr1102950485k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <325du0F3hdngfU1@individual.net> big-chief@gmx.de writes:
>>
>>
>>>I would like you to listen to it:
>>
>>I don't normally do this, but since it was a fairly short file I took
>>a listen. It sounds like a pretty consistently distorted guitar to me
>>and I can't tell any diference in the sound around 14-15 seconds.
>>Either something is getting lost in the translation or I'm just not
>>sensitive to the subtlties of horribly distorted guitar.
>>
>>Try the same thing with a clean guitar sound.
>
>
> OR, move the microphone out to the edge of the speaker where it won't get
> as bright a sound from the amp.
> --scott
>

About the mic sound:
It was the first time I tried the miking method as described on the
shure website: dead center, 4" away from the grill. That should give
an "well-balanced, natural" tone. Indeed, it's rather bright.
http://www.shurenotes.com/issue6/a [...] flash=true

About the noise:
I took another track with the mic more on the edge: it's more obvious.
But the real problem is:
That problem occurs only in the digital domain.
I tried the analog output and there, the crispy noise doesn't
exist. Even with a somewhat hotter signal.
That's why I thought it was jitter. It isn't, as I learned.
I have some options left:
- dropouts caused by a bad RCA cable
- dropouts caused by bad latency settings/buffer sizes
- bad syncing mode (Sonar set to "Full Midi Chase" )

I have prepared yet another mp3 using a clean guitar,
played by someone else. It's about 300KB and lasts only 7 seconds.
I don't want to waste your time and I appreciate your help very much.
Believe me, in this sample, it's absolutely obvious.
http://www.lieber-media.de/mathias [...] noise2.mp3

I'm sorry for any inconvinience.
PLEASE HELP ME! ;-)

Kind Regards
Nudge

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <326ipfF3i9p1lU1@individual.net> big-chief@gmx.de writes:

> I have prepared yet another mp3 using a clean guitar,
> played by someone else. It's about 300KB and lasts only 7 seconds.
> I don't want to waste your time and I appreciate your help very much.
> Believe me, in this sample, it's absolutely obvious.
> http://www.lieber-media.de/mathias [...] noise2.mp3

String buzz? Sounds fine here.

> But the real problem is:
> That problem occurs only in the digital domain.
> I tried the analog output and there, the crispy noise doesn't
> exist. Even with a somewhat hotter signal.

I guess I don't understand what you're listening to. What do you mean
that it only occurs in the digital domain? What's digital, and what's
not digital in your setup? What are you listening to when you hear the
noise versus what you're listening to when it doesn't exist? (the
analog output)



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

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hank alrich wrote:
> Nudge wrote:
>
> I am confused. How do you listen to something _in the digital domain_?
> Do you have DAC's built into your head? I have to listen in the analog
> domain because I don't have digital ears.
>
> So please articulate more clearly the actual circumstances and attendant
> signal routing for when you do hear it and for when you do not hear it.
>

My dbx 386 mic pre has S/PDIF out as well as analog out.
I can take the analog output and go into my A/D card
(Terratec EWS 88MT). This way the problem doesn't occur.

But if I connect the S/PDIF output of the mic pre
with the S/PDIF in of the A/D card, I hear that noise.

Of course, I listen to a analog signal that goes through
the EWS88MT D/A again into my mixer and headphones. ;-)

Kind Regards
Nudge

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <327osiF3h0vduU1@individual.net> big-chief@gmx.de writes:

> My dbx 386 mic pre has S/PDIF out as well as analog out.
> I can take the analog output and go into my A/D card
> (Terratec EWS 88MT). This way the problem doesn't occur.
>
> But if I connect the S/PDIF output of the mic pre
> with the S/PDIF in of the A/D card, I hear that noise.

So you're always monitoring the analog output of the Terratec card,
sometimes fed from its analog input, sometimes fed from the digital
input. But the examples you've been posting have all been recorded
through the same path, so it's not surprising that they sound OK
(since they sound OK under some conditions at your studio). If you
wanted to illustrate what happens when you monitor the digital output
of your preamp through the D/A converter in your sound card, you'd
have to re-record the analog output of your sound card.

Given the situation, I'd say you have a clocking problem. Check the
Terratec driver control panel and, when you're using the digital
input, make sure it's getting its word clock from the digital input,
and not the internal clock. I'll bet that's your problem.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Nudge wrote:

> My dbx 386 mic pre has S/PDIF out as well as analog out.
> I can take the analog output and go into my A/D card
> (Terratec EWS 88MT). This way the problem doesn't occur.

> But if I connect the S/PDIF output of the mic pre
> with the S/PDIF in of the A/D card, I hear that noise.

That could well be a clocking issue. Re-examine how you've set the
devices when going the digital route.

> Of course, I listen to a analog signal that goes through
> the EWS88MT D/A again into my mixer and headphones. ;-)

Good. <g>

--
ha