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miking an upright bass

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Anonymous
December 13, 2004 1:18:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello there,

my next recording session is for a 4 pieze jazz band:
- drum
- upright bass
- e-piano
- saxophone/clarinet (front)

They want a very roomy sound that ties them together
and the sessions they made until now very too clearly
separated and too much studio-like, as they said.

My plans are:
- front guy: MD 421 horizontal for both instruments
- piano: line-out
- drum: 2x AKG C1000S OH, SM57 snare, Shure 52 basedrum ???
- upright bass: large condenser like AT4033/3035 ???

How would you record the upright bass?
What mic fits best as a stereo room mic in front of
the whole band? Or should I leave them out and use
reverb FX since my room acoustics are not the best?

Kind Regards
Nudge

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de

More about : miking upright bass

Anonymous
December 13, 2004 1:18:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I think I'd use the AT4033/3035 on the horn and the MD421 on the bass.
Your horns'll sound better and I think you'll get better isolation on
the bass,
which is always an issue /w drums in the same room...

Gantt

Nudge wrote:

> Hello there,
>
> my next recording session is for a 4 pieze jazz band:
> - drum
> - upright bass
> - e-piano
> - saxophone/clarinet (front)
>
> They want a very roomy sound that ties them together
> and the sessions they made until now very too clearly
> separated and too much studio-like, as they said.
>
> My plans are:
> - front guy: MD 421 horizontal for both instruments
> - piano: line-out
> - drum: 2x AKG C1000S OH, SM57 snare, Shure 52 basedrum ???
> - upright bass: large condenser like AT4033/3035 ???
>
> How would you record the upright bass?
> What mic fits best as a stereo room mic in front of
> the whole band? Or should I leave them out and use
> reverb FX since my room acoustics are not the best?
>
> Kind Regards
> Nudge
>
> --
> Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
> http://studio.lieber-media.de
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 4:00:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Nudge" <big-chief@gmx.de> wrote:
> My plans are:
> - front guy: MD 421 horizontal for both instruments
> - piano: line-out
> - drum: 2x AKG C1000S OH, SM57 snare, Shure 52 basedrum?


What is a basedrum?
Bass drum I know.

ebs
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Anonymous
December 13, 2004 4:24:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Eberhard Sengpiel wrote:
> "Nudge" <big-chief@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>>My plans are:
>>- front guy: MD 421 horizontal for both instruments
>>- piano: line-out
>>- drum: 2x AKG C1000S OH, SM57 snare, Shure 52 basedrum?
>
>
>
> What is a basedrum?
> Bass drum I know.
>

Is that your only answer, Eberhard Pingel?
Wrong newsgroup, try alt.games.smartassing.

Kind Regards
Nudge

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 9:50:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'd put a monitor for the pianist, no headphones for anyone! Very important!

Two small-capsule condencers as room mics (neumann, shure sm81, akg...). I
think that room mics will be VERY important.

D-12 out of the kick, one Beyerdynamic 201 for snare (maybe for bottom
snare!!!), two overheads for drums (you may not need them).

Pickup output plus a dinamic mic near the bridge(421, M88, D12, it depends
on the bass pressure level).

One condencer mic 3foots from the sax or a dynamic 1 foot from the sax (if
you use your room mic wisely you may not need it).

Be sure that the drummer use dark cymbals!

This may be a good basic setup.

Ciao
Max





"Gantt Kushner" <gizmo@his.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:41BD9A88.BE9AA9A3@his.com...
>I think I'd use the AT4033/3035 on the horn and the MD421 on the bass.
> Your horns'll sound better and I think you'll get better isolation on
> the bass,
> which is always an issue /w drums in the same room...
>
> Gantt
>
> Nudge wrote:
>
>> Hello there,
>>
>> my next recording session is for a 4 pieze jazz band:
>> - drum
>> - upright bass
>> - e-piano
>> - saxophone/clarinet (front)
>>
>> They want a very roomy sound that ties them together
>> and the sessions they made until now very too clearly
>> separated and too much studio-like, as they said.
>>
>> My plans are:
>> - front guy: MD 421 horizontal for both instruments
>> - piano: line-out
>> - drum: 2x AKG C1000S OH, SM57 snare, Shure 52 basedrum ???
>> - upright bass: large condenser like AT4033/3035 ???
>>
>> How would you record the upright bass?
>> What mic fits best as a stereo room mic in front of
>> the whole band? Or should I leave them out and use
>> reverb FX since my room acoustics are not the best?
>>
>> Kind Regards
>> Nudge
>>
>> --
>> Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
>> http://studio.lieber-media.de
>

>
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 1:18:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thank you very much!

The pianist uses a monitor on stage already.
That seems to fit perfectly and the band will keep
its live feeling. I would like to record the
direct signal from the piano's line-out though,
it's the clearest of the whole band then.
Will there be phase problems?

Where should I put the mics best to model the room?
Far from the band (> 10 feet) or just far enough?
X-Y or widely separated? (I have never recorded more than
one instrument using a mic pair).

I can rent some microphones for the session.
They have no Sennheiser MD 421, as I got to know today,
but it seems they have many AKGs or Shures it seems.
Oh, I'm looking forward to that session! :-)

Kind Regards
Nudge


Maxy888 wrote:
> I'd put a monitor for the pianist, no headphones for anyone! Very important!
>
> Two small-capsule condencers as room mics (neumann, shure sm81, akg...). I
> think that room mics will be VERY important.
>
> D-12 out of the kick, one Beyerdynamic 201 for snare (maybe for bottom
> snare!!!), two overheads for drums (you may not need them).
>
> Pickup output plus a dinamic mic near the bridge(421, M88, D12, it depends
> on the bass pressure level).
>
> One condencer mic 3foots from the sax or a dynamic 1 foot from the sax (if
> you use your room mic wisely you may not need it).
>
> Be sure that the drummer use dark cymbals!
>
> This may be a good basic setup.
>
> Ciao
> Max
>
>
>
>
>
> "Gantt Kushner" <gizmo@his.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:41BD9A88.BE9AA9A3@his.com...
>
>>I think I'd use the AT4033/3035 on the horn and the MD421 on the bass.
>>Your horns'll sound better and I think you'll get better isolation on
>>the bass,
>>which is always an issue /w drums in the same room...
>>
>>Gantt
>>
>>Nudge wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello there,
>>>
>>>my next recording session is for a 4 pieze jazz band:
>>>- drum
>>>- upright bass
>>>- e-piano
>>>- saxophone/clarinet (front)
>>>
>>>They want a very roomy sound that ties them together
>>>and the sessions they made until now very too clearly
>>>separated and too much studio-like, as they said.
>>>
>>>My plans are:
>>>- front guy: MD 421 horizontal for both instruments
>>>- piano: line-out
>>>- drum: 2x AKG C1000S OH, SM57 snare, Shure 52 basedrum ???
>>>- upright bass: large condenser like AT4033/3035 ???
>>>
>>>How would you record the upright bass?
>>>What mic fits best as a stereo room mic in front of
>>>the whole band? Or should I leave them out and use
>>>reverb FX since my room acoustics are not the best?
>>>
>>>Kind Regards
>>>Nudge
>>>
>>>--
>>>Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
>>>http://studio.lieber-media.de
>>
>
>
>

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 2:24:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:00:53 +0100, "Eberhard Sengpiel"
<esengpiel@t-online.de> wrote:

>What is a basedrum?
>Bass drum I know. <snip>

Better yet, what's a "pieze?" Piezotweeter I know.

dB
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 3:12:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Having the keyboards go direct isn't going to help the vibe.

Al

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:18:01 +0100, Nudge <big-chief@gmx.de> wrote:

>Hello there,
>
>my next recording session is for a 4 pieze jazz band:
>- drum
>- upright bass
>- e-piano
>- saxophone/clarinet (front)
>
>They want a very roomy sound that ties them together
>and the sessions they made until now very too clearly
>separated and too much studio-like, as they said.
>
>My plans are:
>- front guy: MD 421 horizontal for both instruments
>- piano: line-out
>- drum: 2x AKG C1000S OH, SM57 snare, Shure 52 basedrum ???
>- upright bass: large condenser like AT4033/3035 ???
>
>How would you record the upright bass?
>What mic fits best as a stereo room mic in front of
>the whole band? Or should I leave them out and use
>reverb FX since my room acoustics are not the best?
>
>Kind Regards
>Nudge
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 3:13:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:18:01 +0100, Nudge <big-chief@gmx.de> wrote:

>I would like to record the
>direct signal from the piano's line-out though,
>it's the clearest of the whole band then.

Yeah, which is why it will probably sound totally out of place mixed
with the other instruments that were actually recorded in a room.

Al
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 11:54:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <m28tr0hs8mcf4hqhidulaf5ufk7e02cqic@4ax.com> playonAT@comcast.net writes:

> Having the keyboards go direct isn't going to help the vibe.

The "vibe" will come from the monitor for the keyboard which the band
already uses. Splitting the keyboard output to the recording and the
monitor (typically with a direct box) will keep other instruments from
leaking into the keyboard track. But there will probably still be
leakage from the keyboard monitor into other tracks to add to the
"vibe."


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 1:10:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

playon wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:18:01 +0100, Nudge <big-chief@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>
>>I would like to record the
>>direct signal from the piano's line-out though,
>>it's the clearest of the whole band then.
>
>
> Yeah, which is why it will probably sound totally out of place mixed
> with the other instruments that were actually recorded in a room.
>

OK, got your point.
Thanks. I will try to record the monitor signal.

Kind Regards
Nudge

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 1:55:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Gee, I thought he was talking about a "pieze of azz"!
Tom


"DeserTBoB" <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote in message
news:185tr05u4vvee1mkpanomikuft4prqcpp3@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:00:53 +0100, "Eberhard Sengpiel"
> <esengpiel@t-online.de> wrote:
>
> >What is a basedrum?
> >Bass drum I know. <snip>
>
> Better yet, what's a "pieze?" Piezotweeter I know.
>
> dB
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 2:37:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Nudge <big-chief@gmx.de> laid this on me:

> Hello there,
>
> my next recording session is for a 4 pieze jazz band:
> - drum
> - upright bass
> - e-piano
> - saxophone/clarinet (front)
>
> They want a very roomy sound that ties them together
> and the sessions they made until now very too clearly
> separated and too much studio-like, as they said.
>
> My plans are:
> - front guy: MD 421 horizontal for both instruments
> - piano: line-out
> - drum: 2x AKG C1000S OH, SM57 snare, Shure 52 basedrum ???
> - upright bass: large condenser like AT4033/3035 ???
>
> How would you record the upright bass?

Well, disregarding various non-mentioned factors and acknowledging
that I am not the sole or best opinion on this, firstly I would take a
pickup line from the bass and blend it with the mic to taste/situation. You
may not need it all the time, but it may save your ass at one point.
(compressing the beejeesus out of it and laying it in there very lightly,
and playing with getting it in phase with the mic track, 1ms per foot, are
other old tricks worth exploring. Sometimes track delay on the direct works,
sometimes you need to move the mic around to get it right) Of course,
knowing mic patterns/response will help a lot with positioning. If you could
use other mics than the C1000s on OH, it may save you a lot of hassle. (I
can think many cheap-ish mics that would do the same thing much better.) The
4033 is not a disaster on upright, not my favorite, but if that's what ya
got, then it's the best. (depending on your pre, the 421 could be a better
choice...) My advice as far as positioning with the bass mic, don't be
afraid to drop it lower down than the standard 4-5 feet up I see a lot. It
sometimes gets a better sound lower down (1 foot or so above the floor), and
you also may get it more out of the way from the sax/clarinet.
I also assume you will do this, but I thought I'd mention it, find a
couple good sounding bass recordings in the style you are looking at, run
them though the system, give yourself a baseline to gun for rather than
shoot blind.

> What mic fits best as a stereo room mic in front of
> the whole band? Or should I leave them out and use
> reverb FX since my room acoustics are not the best?

Reverb is supposed to simulate rooms, but on the level of equipment I
am reasoning you are using, I have never heard one that makes me think "hey,
that sounds like a room". I think "that sounds like a reverb". Which is OK,
but they are different and have different effects on the listener. If you
want a room sound, get the room sound as good as you can, set up a good X/Y,
and try to make that work. If you can't get the room sound to work, then try
the reverb.
Good luck.

Sean

> Kind Regards
> Nudge
--
There is an old saying that if a million monkeys
typed on a million keyboards for a million years,
eventually all the works of Shakespeare would be produced.
Now, thanks to Usenet, we know this is not true.

seans_at_efn.org
http://www.efn.org/~seans
July 13, 2009 11:00:17 PM

for bass a AKG D12 if you dont have access to one use a D112 at the F-hole and a AT4050 or comporable center of fingerboard
July 16, 2009 4:24:53 PM

docgreene said:
for bass a AKG D12 if you dont have access to one use a D112 at the F-hole and a AT4050 or comporable center of fingerboard


I like large Diaphragms for upright. One a foot or so infront of the bass and then one right near the fingerboard.

With lower frequency instruments, if you want to capture those lower frequencies I always put the mic back a ways to give the frequencies more time to develop before they enter the mic.
!