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Realistic Drums Tracks for a Demo

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December 15, 2004 7:29:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi,

Drummer sick. Urgently need demo - have guitars, vocals, everything
laid out in Audition. Drums created in Fruity Loops sound fake,
especially 2 or more hi-hats or toms hit close together. Snare sounds
like a machinegun, for example, even though it's a nice DM5 snare
sample that I otherwise like. I tried randomizing pitches and accents
slighly on close rolls, but it doesn't help.

Is there a way to "humanize" a drum machine a little more to make at
least drums FILLS sound a little more human?

Thanks



MY
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 11:57:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 15 Dec 2004 16:29:18 -0800, "Mia" <maxvalery@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Drummer sick. Urgently need demo - have guitars, vocals, everything
>laid out in Audition. Drums created in Fruity Loops sound fake,

Did you telegraph this in ?

"It is not the "perfect" time of the drum machine that is primarily
responsible for its mechanical sound. It is a lack of accenting that
will most obviously distinguish a machine from a live drummer,"

Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10
@/
December 16, 2004 1:00:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

www.nskit.com

Very real live sampled kit.

Download soundfont and use the free 'sfz' soundfont player.

Sequence drums. Keep velocities varied. If you sequence on Cubase or
Nuendo, insert the track FX/control plugin on the midi track. Then set
poition to vary by +10/-10 or to taste...

this is the best id supose u cud do barring playing a triggered kit.
Sidhu
Related resources
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 1:04:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mia" <maxvalery@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103156958.016926.108310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> Drummer sick. Urgently need demo - have guitars, vocals, everything
> laid out in Audition. Drums created in Fruity Loops sound fake,
> especially 2 or more hi-hats or toms hit close together. Snare sounds
> like a machinegun, for example, even though it's a nice DM5 snare
> sample that I otherwise like. I tried randomizing pitches and accents
> slighly on close rolls, but it doesn't help.
>
> Is there a way to "humanize" a drum machine a little more to make at
> least drums FILLS sound a little more human?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> MY

I'd offer to help but my studio is somewhat ' down' at the moment. If you
could post or send me some audio samples of what your mixes sound like, I
and others here could probably give you more specific advice as to what to
do.

Also, when do you need to have it done? ( and I hope your drummer gets
better soon! )

Best of luck!

John L Rice
Drummer@ImJohn.com
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 3:37:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Rent a trigger pad and steal your sick drummer's sticks. Record
your own fills.

;-)



"Mia" <maxvalery@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1103156958.016926.108310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> Drummer sick. Urgently need demo - have guitars, vocals, everything
> laid out in Audition. Drums created in Fruity Loops sound fake,
> especially 2 or more hi-hats or toms hit close together. Snare sounds
> like a machinegun, for example, even though it's a nice DM5 snare
> sample that I otherwise like. I tried randomizing pitches and accents
> slighly on close rolls, but it doesn't help.
>
> Is there a way to "humanize" a drum machine a little more to make at
> least drums FILLS sound a little more human?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> MY
>
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 4:16:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mia" wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Drummer sick. Urgently need demo - have guitars, vocals, everything
> laid out in Audition. Drums created in Fruity Loops sound fake,
> especially 2 or more hi-hats or toms hit close together. Snare sounds
> like a machinegun, for example, even though it's a nice DM5 snare
> sample that I otherwise like. I tried randomizing pitches and accents
> slighly on close rolls, but it doesn't help.
>
> Is there a way to "humanize" a drum machine a little more to make at
> least drums FILLS sound a little more human?
>

I dunno about how to humanize a drum machine, but one way might be to use a
drummer.

I've never used any of these people, and can't say anything about any of
them, but it's probably worth checking them out and seeing if any of them
are: a. good at the kind of music you're doing b. inexpensive enough c. able
to record good sounding clips:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=drum+tracks+online

-jw
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 5:10:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mia" <maxvalery@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103156958.016926.108310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> Drummer sick. Urgently need demo - have guitars, vocals, everything
> laid out in Audition. Drums created in Fruity Loops sound fake,
> especially 2 or more hi-hats or toms hit close together. Snare sounds
> like a machinegun, for example, even though it's a nice DM5 snare
> sample that I otherwise like. I tried randomizing pitches and accents
> slighly on close rolls, but it doesn't help.
>
> Is there a way to "humanize" a drum machine a little more to make at
> least drums FILLS sound a little more human?

There are some programs that can do a pretty good job of simulating stuff.
"Band in a Box" actually does a pretty decent job for a lot of stuff. You
can get "humanizing" plugins but their success totally depends on what
you've already programmed. There's quite a few good drummers for hire over
the net that you can send an MP3/WAV (either by mail or net) and they'll do
the tracks for you as either audio, MIDI, or both.
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 7:50:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi all,
Apologies if this post is a little long/dry (winter cold coming on).
Hope it helps someone though...

Humanizing a drum machine is pretty difficult.
In the context of this problem you've got:
Changes in the velocities of hits.
Changes in timbre that happen (when a snare for instance is struck)
with differing velocities.
Changes in the placing of notes.

You may get lucky randomizing pitch (to simulate changes in timbre),
and the velocity of hits but its true that the relationship between
velocity/timbre is the opposite of random!
Also, in the context of a song, velocity doesnt change randomly: the
first downbeat in a chorus for example may naturally be played
louder/or if a drummer is late with one hit it may be louder or quiter.
+ It is more than just pitch that changes with velocity.

In terms of timing/velocity, even the most 'in the pocket' drummer will
move in groups of four bars (Weve had groups of four bars here in
Europe since the 14th Century! (And weve got two legs that lead to us
feeling music in two's/fours etc....)) Also the phrasing of fills will
vary depending on lots of things> the emotional content of the song
etc...

You mention that two hihat or tom hits close together sound fake - this
suggests a timing problem. If your DAW has the capabilities, chop up
those individual hits and try moving them in line with other
notes/chords happening at that time.
Something that may help (although doesnt tally with what Ive put
above!) is for verse/chorus grooves edit a 7or 15 bar loop and copy
that over so there is some movement in relation to other parts...

Other options are:
Getting a drummer (like Mr Rice above!) to record the part for you.
Getting a multisampled kit patch where (for instance, the snare) is
sampled at different velocities and play fills in on velocity sensitive
midi controller.
Or any of the other suggestions above.

After that, there may be much you can do in the mix. Does the loop
sound obviously sampled? is it sonically very diffrent to the rest of
the parts? Can you alter that to make it seem more natural?

good luck!
December 16, 2004 11:21:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Awesome advice! Haven't even though about it - I'll just record kicks,
snares, hats etc separately while playing to the sampled track! Damn
good idea :) 

Any advice for mic'ing guitar amp? I ran it straight through on this
demo because every time I'd mic the amp, the guitar would sound like
it's got too much hi/lo with weird middle, and eq'ing didn't really
help. I built padded isolation box that I throw in the closet and hear
it through monitors.

Thanks,

MY



Nudge wrote:
> How about cutting the high frequencies off those midi samples?
> Should give you a more natural sound, too, even if not very
> defined.
>
> Also, you could record the drums fills yourself.
> Use simple overdubs: Play snare first, then
> do another track for the bass drum, the toms and so on.
> Should be fairly easy for someone who is musical and knows
> what the drummer usually plays (e.g. the bass player?).
>
> Kind Regards
> Nudge
>
>
> Mia wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Drummer sick. Urgently need demo - have guitars, vocals,
everything
> > laid out in Audition. Drums created in Fruity Loops sound fake,
> > especially 2 or more hi-hats or toms hit close together. Snare
sounds
> > like a machinegun, for example, even though it's a nice DM5 snare
> > sample that I otherwise like. I tried randomizing pitches and
accents
> > slighly on close rolls, but it doesn't help.
> >
> > Is there a way to "humanize" a drum machine a little more to make
at
> > least drums FILLS sound a little more human?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> > MY
> >
>
> --
> Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
> http://studio.lieber-media.de
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 7:51:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

How about cutting the high frequencies off those midi samples?
Should give you a more natural sound, too, even if not very
defined.

Also, you could record the drums fills yourself.
Use simple overdubs: Play snare first, then
do another track for the bass drum, the toms and so on.
Should be fairly easy for someone who is musical and knows
what the drummer usually plays (e.g. the bass player?).

Kind Regards
Nudge


Mia wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Drummer sick. Urgently need demo - have guitars, vocals, everything
> laid out in Audition. Drums created in Fruity Loops sound fake,
> especially 2 or more hi-hats or toms hit close together. Snare sounds
> like a machinegun, for example, even though it's a nice DM5 snare
> sample that I otherwise like. I tried randomizing pitches and accents
> slighly on close rolls, but it doesn't help.
>
> Is there a way to "humanize" a drum machine a little more to make at
> least drums FILLS sound a little more human?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> MY
>

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de
Anonymous
December 17, 2004 3:29:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi Mia,

While I agree with Nudge's suggestion, keep in mind that drum stick
technique, drum striking technique and hand conditioning / endurance etc are
as important as knowing when and what to hit. I'm not trying to make you
avoid the idea ( you may well be pleasantly surprised with the results ), I
just want you to be aware that you may be trading one set of frustrating
problems for another.

Best of luck!

John L Rice
Drummer@ImJohn.com

"Mia" <maxvalery@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103214093.716934.298300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Awesome advice! Haven't even though about it - I'll just record kicks,
> snares, hats etc separately while playing to the sampled track! Damn
> good idea :) 
>
> Any advice for mic'ing guitar amp? I ran it straight through on this
> demo because every time I'd mic the amp, the guitar would sound like
> it's got too much hi/lo with weird middle, and eq'ing didn't really
> help. I built padded isolation box that I throw in the closet and hear
> it through monitors.
>
> Thanks,
>
> MY
>
>
>
> Nudge wrote:
> > How about cutting the high frequencies off those midi samples?
> > Should give you a more natural sound, too, even if not very
> > defined.
> >
> > Also, you could record the drums fills yourself.
> > Use simple overdubs: Play snare first, then
> > do another track for the bass drum, the toms and so on.
> > Should be fairly easy for someone who is musical and knows
> > what the drummer usually plays (e.g. the bass player?).
> >
> > Kind Regards
> > Nudge
> >
> >
> > Mia wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Drummer sick. Urgently need demo - have guitars, vocals,
> everything
> > > laid out in Audition. Drums created in Fruity Loops sound fake,
> > > especially 2 or more hi-hats or toms hit close together. Snare
> sounds
> > > like a machinegun, for example, even though it's a nice DM5 snare
> > > sample that I otherwise like. I tried randomizing pitches and
> accents
> > > slighly on close rolls, but it doesn't help.
> > >
> > > Is there a way to "humanize" a drum machine a little more to make
> at
> > > least drums FILLS sound a little more human?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > MY
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
> > http://studio.lieber-media.de
>
!