Fahrenheit 9/11

I just saw it today. It was really good. It was a lot different from Bowling For Columbine, a lot less of Michael Moore. It was mostly news footage of varying events with Moore narrating, tying it all together. Some of the things he revealed were just scary, and just got me asking to myself, "How could this have happened in America?"

Unless you take the entirity of this documentary as lies, it is very hard to come away from it without thinking that this war is all about money. I always thought this in the first place, but after this film it really gives more evidence to support that thought. Being that most of this documentary is backed with seemingly solid evidence, as well as video/news footage of the subjects, it is hard to say that Moore is just lying or skewing the facts.

Regardless of your political affiliation, I think you should go see it. Unlike Bowling For Columbine, most of what this film says comes from the mouths of those in the Bush administration, the government, or soldiers, or regular citizens, and not from stunts from Moore. Moore only had 2 stunts that I can recall in this movie, but all were just done for comedic value rather than to try and make a point (like what Moore was criticized for in Bowling For Columbine).

Of course Moore puts in several things to make fun of Bush and his cronies, but it is not done in a way that skews the facts, but just to make fun of them so the audience can laugh. Whether or not you call that manipulation is up to those watching it, but I thought it was a nice touch.

Did anyone else see it, and if so, what are your thoughts or criticisms on it?

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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>

I have a couple friends seeing this movie right now. It's not going to change any minds from what I've heard but it's a nice pat on the back to all the Bush haters.

<b><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> </font color=red>AMERICA

Well I'm gonna check it out tomorrow I think (gotta go to the other ends of the city to watch it (only 3 screens this week, 7 more next week).

I don't expect much, but it's always worth a laugh. As for Bush haters, well why not, Bush Haters, Clinton Haters, it's what American politics is about isn't it?


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

Maybe you should see it and maybe it would change your mind.

Even if it doesn't change your mind, it should be entertaining, so it wouldn't be a total waste of money.

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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>

was it worth going to see in the theatre or just rent it?

maybe it is a waste if you could save to see it in your home,


lol i dont know to many "special effects" that could be in this movie that could be optomized at home.

"Never underestimate the predictability of Stupidity."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Messianic Maniac.}=-</A>
<font color=green>{FLM}</font color=green>

doesnt suprise me, lol. i will prolly check it out when iit comes out on video.

"Never underestimate the predictability of Stupidity."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Messianic Maniac.}=-</A>
<font color=green>{FLM}</font color=green>

About the Saudi's leaving... Actually, the Saudi ambassador went on Larry King Live after the attacks and said that he felt that many prominent Saudi's and 24 members of Bin Ladens family were in America, and it would be unfair for them to come to any harm because of who they are, so he asked people high up in the government to allow them to leave. They didn't sneak through, they left with permission from higher-ups in Bush's administration. If I remember right, Bush himself okayed it.

Moore never says that Bush was "out of it" during the actual strikes. He does bring the situation up, but takes a different approach to it. He finds it strange that Bush still went ahead with the photo-op when he was informed of the first plan crashing into the WTC. He then says it is even stranger that for 7 minutes after Bush was informed of the 2nd plane crashing, Bush stayed in the chair reading with the children. Don't you think that he should instantly know we were under an attack and find it necessary to leave the school in order to find out more of what's going on, and do his job as president to protect us further from any more attacks?

I don't see what is propoganda about this?

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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>

THIS IS A FLAT OUT LIE!

They left 3 days after the attacks when there was no restrictions by the FAA anymore.

<b><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> </font color=red>AMERICA

I would think it appropriate that after he was informed of the second plane strike for Bush to stand up, give a statement saying that his immediate attention is needed in matters of national security, and leave the school. I would think the whole point would be to leave immediately so he could atlease be given the intelligence... Why is that somehow unrealistic or inappropriate?

You're right, it didn't show Saddam torturing people. It didn't even mention it actually. Maybe Moore should have described it, but there is no video of that, and that was also not supposed to be the main point of this war.

He did show innocent Iraqis picking up the dead bodies of their children and vowing revenge on the United States, though. Blowing the people of Iraq up is not the way to win their hearts and bring them to our side...

There are more than just connections to the oil industry. Like I said, unless you think Moore is totally lying (which is unlikely), the connections drawn are startling. I don't think he is lying.

Is it coincidence that in the 90's the Taliban was invited to Houston to talk with the oil company Bush was on the board of to talk about building an oil pipeline through Afghanistan? No pipleine deal was ever struck, until the US overthrew the Taliban and installed a new leader of its choice? Does it only look bad, and truly is just a harmless coincidence?

You criticize everyone for believing what Moore has to say, yet you believe nothing he has to say without even hearing what he has to say... Is that not hypocritical? Is it fair to say he is automatically lying because he has a differing opinion from your own?

Nothing about his documentary was glaringly false. Of course it was slanted to paint Bush in a poor light, that was the point of this movie. As I'm sure you know, Moore does not have to lie in order to do that...

Moore is going for everyone. Sure the young crowd would be a target, because they are the most liberal demographic that votes in the lowest numbers. Michael Moore does have an agenda to push, of course. But, that does not mean he is lying, especially considering most of this movie is not his footage!

Considering Britney Spears is a Bush supporter, I don't think Moore would be going after her fans...

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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>

He was given info while there.

<b><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> </font color=red>AMERICA

That is not true either. It's an urban legend.

<b><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> </font color=red>AMERICA

Look it up. It's an urban legend.

Moore mixes facts with fiction.

<b><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> </font color=red>AMERICA

<A HREF="http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm" target="_new">http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm</A>
Pretty fair assessment of the facts.

<b><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> <font color=red>AMERICA<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by dhlucke on 06/26/04 06:46 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

<A HREF="http://www.moorelies.com/" target="_new">http://www.moorelies.com/</A>

Just like Fox pisses me off with stupid stuff about the moon landings etc, Michael Moore pisses me off. He's not a good person. He's not honest or objective.

<b><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> <font color=red>AMERICA

Moore ONLY quotes people who serve HIS purposes. ONE FBI AGENT, ONE CONGRESSMAN.

His assertions that no congressmen read the patriot act are lies as well.

The guy is a liar.

<b><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> <font color=red>AMERICA

<b><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> <font color=red>AMERICA

Here is some more information.

Special Agent John Iannarelli, the FBI's spokesman on counterterrorism activities told Vanity Fair "I can say unequivocally that the FBI had no role in facilitating these flights one way or another," when asked about the bin Ladens leaving.

Clarke testified at one point, "I was making or coordinating a lot of the decisions on 9-11 in the days immediately after. And I would love to be able to tell you who did it, who brought this proposal to me, but I don’t know. The two — since you press me, the two possibilities that are most likely are either the Department of State or the White House chief of staff’s office." He later said that he made the decision on his own.

Moore never asserted that no congressmen read the PATRIOT Act. A congressman he interviewed said that a lot of representatives don't read most of the stuff. Call them lies if you want...

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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>

So to denounce Moore's wacko-leftist liberalism, you post a "news article" containing wack-right wing conspiracies about those Moore interviewed? Does it really make sense to you to denounce everything Moore has to say as lies, yet you post this story to apparantly be solid fact? Come on...

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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>

You just posted a quote from VANITY FAIR!!!

Let's just stop this. Moore is a fat idiot and you're better than him and shouldn't defend his stupidity and one sided propaghanda.

Keeping it to the facts is fun. Blatent propaghanda is just lame.

<b><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> <font color=red>AMERICA

Just don't want this important item to get buryed in this thread!



<b> ...more people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol - W.C. Fields </b>

I posted Vanity Fair because it was Vanity Fair that Clarke told he made the decision to let the Bin Ladens go on his own... I'm not that familiar with that publication, so you tell me what's the problem with it?

I don't think dismissing Moore as a fat idiot is appropriate. I listen to what he has to say, and based on my own judgement what he says is not far-fetched and seems to always be backed by sources or evidence. I don't think he is just a wacko liar.

Of course I always want to learn more, and learn the truth. The issue about who really okayed the departure of Bin Ladens family is interesting. Moore, or more appropriately the FBI agent he interviewed, could be wrong about that.

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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>

Moore telling us that the Bush family has been in the oil business is pretty stupid. We know that. Trying to connect him to a saudi family...where EVERYONE is in the oil business is even lamer.

<b><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> <font color=red>AMERICA

It's very easy to dismiss a bafoon who still thinks Gore won the election and who spent untold minutes of that movie showing goofy footage of bush as if that makes a good film.

I'm sorry, but I just talked to my friends and they are all for Moore. Questioning the film leaves them bewildered and flustered. How can they possibly NOT believe what Michael Moore says? Anyone that reads can quickly debunk moore though. He's a one sided bush hater.

<b><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> <font color=red>AMERICA

Bush is the president of the USA and no matter what he does it's going to make his friends money. Think about that for a second. He would have to literally ban oil for his "friends" to not make money.

<b><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> <font color=red>AMERICA

Bush is the president, but not just Moore thinks the election was rigged and stolen from Gore, because it's pretty hard to ignore the evidence that suggests so. Moore does discuss this in the intro to this movie. But that shouldn't mean his friends should make MORE money than they normally would. I don't think it's far fetched to say that money and oil were motivators for this war.

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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>