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How to manage a post-fader line input and live mics?

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Anonymous
December 21, 2004 6:17:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I recently recorded a live concert and the soundman gave me a
post-fader stereo line signal, the same signal going to the mains. I
requested pre-fader, but I took what I could get and that sig was
usually too hot and processed. The MOTU 828MKII could not attenuate
enough, so the results were generally blotched. I also had two ambient
mics above the crowd, but a bit far from the stage. However, the times
when the board sig was decent, this sig/mic combo sounds great. It
wasn't a paid gig, more like an experimental gig.

So, next time at any club I want to be prepared. I'm thinking of
patching an RNC between the board outputs and the MOTU to attenuate and
compress. Will that work? I'll also put the ambient mics closer to the
stage. Will this set-up work? I don't want to pack in a lot of gear.
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 8:55:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

nah, that's way too much trouble. for what these bands want and on
their budgets, splitting mic lines, bringing in a dozen preamps with
snakes, and working with a clueless soundman won't happen. i've done
paid gigs before where the employer set everything up beforehand but
when i got there the soundman had no clue. i also know companies that
record live and bypass the soundman altogether and work only with the
band, bringing in their own mics and stuff. either way, big or small,
the main thing is to leave the soundman alone as much as possible.

speaking of which, a lot of bands, especially electronic ones, do
pre-mixes and have a pre-mixing technician as part of their team. the
band's technician provides the generic soundman with two outputs and
all he does all night is move the house volume fader.

> To be truly prepared either you have to advance the gig to be sure
you
> have a prefade send available
> or carry a splitter for the snake and your own desk
> George
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 11:46:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1103671059.560238.122150@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> bayareamusician@hotmail.com writes:

> I recently recorded a live concert and the soundman gave me a
> post-fader stereo line signal, the same signal going to the mains. I
> requested pre-fader, but I took what I could get and that sig was
> usually too hot and processed. The MOTU 828MKII could not attenuate
> enough

In-line attenuators and adapters for all sort of connectors, and maybe
some in-line transformers are your friends when you walk up to a PA
console and ask for "a feed." Scott Dorsey travels with a large
fishing tackle box full.

> So, next time at any club I want to be prepared. I'm thinking of
> patching an RNC between the board outputs and the MOTU to attenuate and
> compress. Will that work?

Well, yeah, but you probably won't be able to make a good judgement of
what the compressor is doing. If you think this will be an automatic
volume control, it won't. You need to do that yourself.

Put an adequate attenuator in line so that you won't overload your A/D
converter input, and let it roll. You can even out volume changes
later.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
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Anonymous
December 22, 2004 2:21:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

bayareamusician@hotmail.com wrote:
> I recently recorded a live concert and the soundman gave me a
> post-fader stereo line signal, the same signal going to the mains. I
> requested pre-fader, but I took what I could get and that sig was
> usually too hot and processed. The MOTU 828MKII could not attenuate
> enough, so the results were generally blotched. I also had two ambient
> mics above the crowd, but a bit far from the stage. However, the times
> when the board sig was decent, this sig/mic combo sounds great. It
> wasn't a paid gig, more like an experimental gig.
>
> So, next time at any club I want to be prepared. I'm thinking of
> patching an RNC between the board outputs and the MOTU to attenuate and
> compress. Will that work? I'll also put the ambient mics closer to the
> stage. Will this set-up work? I don't want to pack in a lot of gear.
>

To be truly prepared either you have to advance the gig to be sure you
have a prefade send available
or carry a splitter for the snake and your own desk
George
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 5:13:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

bayareamusician@hotmail.com wrote:
> nah, that's way too much trouble. for what these bands want and on
> their budgets, splitting mic lines, bringing in a dozen preamps with
> snakes, and working with a clueless soundman won't happen. i've done
> paid gigs before where the employer set everything up beforehand but
> when i got there the soundman had no clue. i also know companies that
> record live and bypass the soundman altogether and work only with the
> band, bringing in their own mics and stuff. either way, big or small,
> the main thing is to leave the soundman alone as much as possible.
>
> speaking of which, a lot of bands, especially electronic ones, do
> pre-mixes and have a pre-mixing technician as part of their team. the
> band's technician provides the generic soundman with two outputs and
> all he does all night is move the house volume fader.
>
>
>>To be truly prepared either you have to advance the gig to be sure
>
> you
>
>>have a prefade send available
>>or carry a splitter for the snake and your own desk
>>George
>
>


You must work different types of work than I do
When my company is hired to do production nothing happens with the
signal chain unless my employees(or more usually myself) both knows and
is in ultimate control

the only time I conceded on that was when working a Presidential speech
WHCA of course had the ultimate control
George
Anonymous
December 24, 2004 5:24:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I recently recorded a live concert and the soundman gave me a
> post-fader stereo line signal, the same signal going to the mains. I
> requested pre-fader, but I took what I could get and that sig was
> usually too hot and processed. The MOTU 828MKII could not attenuate
> enough, so the results were generally blotched. I also had two ambient
> mics above the crowd, but a bit far from the stage. However, the times
> when the board sig was decent, this sig/mic combo sounds great. It
> wasn't a paid gig, more like an experimental gig.
>
> So, next time at any club I want to be prepared. I'm thinking of
> patching an RNC between the board outputs and the MOTU to attenuate and
> compress. Will that work? I'll also put the ambient mics closer to the
> stage. Will this set-up work? I don't want to pack in a lot of gear.

I've done as much of this sort of work as anyone here, and I'll tell you
this much:

You can get paid reasonably for simple live recordings
You can get good results relying on others to do their job
You can keep your gear to a minimum
You just can't count on all three at the same time!

Nowadays I don't record unless I'm driving the FOH board, and I won't drive
the board without reasonable gear to do so, and I won't even stick around in
any music venue with a band playing unless the gear and room are suitably
configured. If the show isn't worth listening to it isn't worth recording.
BUT when things are in order, there's no need for a board tap at all, and
that's the only way it really works. You can't fix mixing or configuration
errors in post.

So you might consider brushing up on sound reinforcement, find a decent
small venue that's paying too much for some outfit to supply a tech and rent
a bunch of superfluous gear, make them an offer they can't refuse to do
sound, and make up the rest doing recordings. Then you don't have to lift
squat, and you're in complete command. If you develop a rep then you can
hit the road and call the shots.
!