Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

XLR mic inputs/cable = less/no RFI ???

Last response: in Home Audio
Share
December 22, 2004 2:23:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello,

Is it true that when using XLR mic cables into XLR inputs on your recorder,
that it also means the chances of various noises including RFI will be much
less likely than when using a 1/4" mic cable ?

Thanks,

Daniel
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 2:28:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Is it true that when using XLR mic cables into XLR inputs on your recorder,
> that it also means the chances of various noises including RFI will be much
> less likely than when using a 1/4" mic cable ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel
>
>
Using a balanced connection is what makes the difference
most all xlr's are balanced
BUT you can get balanced on TRS as well
George
December 22, 2004 2:57:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"George Gleason" <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:vk2yd.1137920$Gx4.511371@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Daniel wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Is it true that when using XLR mic cables into XLR inputs on your
>> recorder, that it also means the chances of various noises including RFI
>> will be much less likely than when using a 1/4" mic cable ?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Daniel
> Using a balanced connection is what makes the difference
> most all xlr's are balanced
> BUT you can get balanced on TRS as well
> George

Just a couple more questions if you don't mind:

(1) When picking out a 1/4" mic cable, how do I know I'm getting the
"balanced" kind ?
(2) Aren't all 1/4" mic cables balanced ?
(3) There's something called HI-Z mic cables ... Are these anyway related to
a "balanced" mic cable ? Are Hi-Z generally recommended as mic cables ?
(4) Please 'xcuse the rather rudimentary questions but lastly, what is TSR ?

Thank you George.

~Daniel
Related resources
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 2:57:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Daniel" wrote ...
\> (1) When picking out a 1/4" mic cable, how do I know
> I'm getting the "balanced" kind ?

Define what you think "1/4-inch mic cable" is?

Almost NO balanced microphones, cables, or equipment
uses 1/4 inch connectors. Not because it can't be done, but
because it is traditional and conventional to use XLR
connectors for mic-level balanced interconnections.

> (2) Aren't all 1/4" mic cables balanced ?

Applications that use 1/4-inch phone plugs for microphones
tend to be low-end consumer equipment which is less
likely to be using balanced circuits. If they were balanced,
it would likely be using XLR.

Certainly the way to tell balanced from unbalanced 1/4-inch
connectors and/or cable is the presence of 3-conductor
(TRS = "Tip", "Ring", "Sleeve") connectors rather than
2-conductor (with only tip and sleeve).

> (3) There's something called HI-Z mic cables ... Are these anyway related
> to a "balanced" mic cable ?

There may have been a balanced, Hi-Z microphone made,
but I've never heard of one. Hi-Z is virtually synnonymous
with UN-balanced.

> Are Hi-Z generally recommended as mic cables ?

No. Lo-Z is prefered. Hi-Z mics are rare (and usually antique).

> (4) Please 'xcuse the rather rudimentary questions but lastly,
< what is TSR ?

Tip/Ring/Sleeve Identifying the three separate metal parts
of a 3-conductor phone plug. Frequently used for line-level
balanced connections, and for stereo headphones (which are
unbalanced, but stereo).
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 2:57:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 23:57:28 GMT, "Daniel" <NotReal@yahoo.com> wrote:

>(1) When picking out a 1/4" mic cable, how do I know I'm getting the
>"balanced" kind ? <snip>

You need some electronics 101.

Unbalanced circuit:

Usually low source impedance, high load impedance.
Has one "hot" connector, the other is ground.

Balanced circuit:

Has two "hot" leads, traditionally 50, 150 or 600 ohm source AND load
impedance, two conductors are terms "tip" and "ring" after telephone
jack practice for over 100 years, thus "TRS" means "tip, ring and
sleeve," sleeve always being ground.

>(2) Aren't all 1/4" mic cables balanced ? <snip>

Hell no. Most garbage equipment is unbalanced, pro gear is balanced.

>(3) There's something called HI-Z mic cables ... Are these anyway related to
>a "balanced" mic cable ? Are Hi-Z generally recommended as mic cables ? <snip>

No. "Hi-Z" is a brief for "high impedance". Usually most low quality
gear is "hi-z", as is home stereo stuff. Pro quality microphones and
line level gear is "low-z", which could be 50, 150, 600 ohm BALANCED.

>(4) Please 'xcuse the rather rudimentary questions but lastly, what is TSR ?

No, TRS...see above. You REALLY should get a book primer on the
subject of professional audio and read it cover to cover. It will
clear up many misconceptions and questions. Maybe some of the more
well verse in present-day publications could recommend a good one in
print. Everything I used to recommend is LONG gone!

dB
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 3:24:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:
> "George Gleason" <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:vk2yd.1137920$Gx4.511371@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>>Daniel wrote:
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>Is it true that when using XLR mic cables into XLR inputs on your
>>>recorder, that it also means the chances of various noises including RFI
>>>will be much less likely than when using a 1/4" mic cable ?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Daniel
>>
>>Using a balanced connection is what makes the difference
>>most all xlr's are balanced
>>BUT you can get balanced on TRS as well
>>George
>
>
> Just a couple more questions if you don't mind:
>
> (1) When picking out a 1/4" mic cable, how do I know I'm getting the
> "balanced" kind ?
> (2) Aren't all 1/4" mic cables balanced ?
> (3) There's something called HI-Z mic cables ... Are these anyway related to
> a "balanced" mic cable ? Are Hi-Z generally recommended as mic cables ?
> (4) Please 'xcuse the rather rudimentary questions but lastly, what is TSR ?
>
> Thank you George.
>
> ~Daniel
>
First Dan
i hope someone else speaks up because my writing skills are not so hot

it isn't just the cable, the jacks on both ends also have to be balanced
a balanced connection with sheil takes three wires
these wires are called
+
-
and sheild

if you examine 1/4 plugs you will see some that have a tip then one
black inuslating ring and the barrel or sleeve
this is a tip/sleeve plug aslo notated as a t/s or switchcraft 180 connector
these are not balanced

others will has the tip, a black insulating ring, a chrome connducting
ring, another black insulatuing ring then the sleeve
these usually are balanced

these need to connect to jacks(sockets0 with contact points for the tip/
ring/and sleeve connection .

I will recommend from here you go to
www.rane.com
and check out rane notes
or the FAQ of this group, sorry I have no idea where it is located
or
www.prosoundweb.com look under tutorials
Thanks
George
these are called t/r/s for tip/ring /sleeve
>
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 6:13:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 23:57:28 GMT, "Daniel" <NotReal@yahoo.com> wrote:


>Just a couple more questions if you don't mind:
>
>(1) When picking out a 1/4" mic cable, how do I know I'm getting the
>"balanced" kind ?
>(2) Aren't all 1/4" mic cables balanced ?
>(3) There's something called HI-Z mic cables ... Are these anyway related to
>a "balanced" mic cable ? Are Hi-Z generally recommended as mic cables ?
>(4) Please 'xcuse the rather rudimentary questions but lastly, what is TSR ?

Quick answer, this should answer most or all of your questions:

http://www.recaudiopro.net/faq/index.htm

>Thank you George.
>
>~Daniel

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 10:57:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <10shfbmh6ja9ic2@corp.supernews.com> rcrowley7@xprt.net writes:

> Define what you think "1/4-inch mic cable" is?

A very short mic cable, of course.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
December 22, 2004 12:58:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Well, mostly, but there's a lot of generalizations in there that might be
misleading.

Nowadays, MOST professional, balanced gear is also low Z out & hi Z in.
This is a trend going back at least twenty years. The original standard,
based on telephone practices, was matched ins & outs. It makes more
difference when you measure your cable runs in miles.

"Balanced" does not always equal "Professional". Behringer & Nady make a
LOT of balanced gear. A John Hardy or Great River preamp without the
output transformer option is unbalanced. As is a RNP.

"Low Z" does not always equal "Professional" Behringer & Nady make a LOT of
low Z gear. A Shure Green Bullet, a Gibson Les Paul, & a Marshal JCM are
all Hi Z.

But where microphones are concerned, professional gear is almost always
lowZ & balanced. The green bullet is an exception, as it is designed to be
plugged into a guitar amp, but it is no less a professional unit because of
that.
December 22, 2004 1:03:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Richard Crowley wrote:

> Almost NO balanced microphones, cables, or equipment
> uses 1/4 inch connectors. Not because it can't be done, but
> because it is traditional and conventional to use XLR
> connectors for mic-level balanced interconnections.

Where the audio signal is the only consideration, 1/4" TRS will do the same
job as XLR. The big advantage to XLR is that the signal ground can be
disconnected from the physical ground. This makes phanton power & dealing
with ground loops a lot less complicated.
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 1:03:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"agent86" wrote ...
> Richard Crowley wrote:
>
>> Almost NO balanced microphones, cables, or equipment
>> uses 1/4 inch connectors. Not because it can't be done, but
>> because it is traditional and conventional to use XLR
>> connectors for mic-level balanced interconnections.
>
> Where the audio signal is the only consideration, 1/4" TRS
> will do the same job as XLR. The big advantage to XLR is
> that the signal ground can be disconnected from the physical
> ground. This makes phanton power & dealing with ground
> loops a lot less complicated.

Certainly. But shielding, grounding, and phantom power
appeared to be quite beyond the scope and assumed level
of understanding of the OP.

(Although a frequent grounding scheme is to use the XLR
connector as the common link between circuit ground and
chassis ground.)
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 9:43:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <Pf2yd.558632$nl.407438@pd7tw3no>, Daniel <NotReal@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Is it true that when using XLR mic cables into XLR inputs on your recorder,
>that it also means the chances of various noises including RFI will be much
>less likely than when using a 1/4" mic cable ?

This is discussed extensively in the FAQ. Both the balanced line, and the
lower line impedance buy you considerable noise rejection.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
December 23, 2004 11:03:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Just wanted to let you guys know how much I appreciate the large volume of
replies and info! Your time is much appreciated!

Thanks again! :) 

~Daniel
!