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Mic Processors - Symetrix vs Eureka

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Anonymous
December 22, 2004 6:13:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.radio.broadcasting,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ok, time for some technical discussion for the Engineers here.

Setting up a new production studio, and the decision is between going
with the industry standard Symetrix 528E, or trying the Presonus Eureka
instead.

Anyone here tried the Eureka yet?

They are offering the $200 digital output card for free if you buy the
Eureka before the end of the month, and having digital out as well as
analog is something I need anyway, so it can go directly into the DAW
for voice-over production work.

Since the 528E doesn't have digital out, this would have been an easy
decision, but the 528E has a downward expander that is sort of like a
gate to get rid of any studio noise when no one is talking into the mic.

There doesn't seem to be any gating control of any kind on the Eureka,
so I need to know if this is a problem for anyone using it in a
broadcast studio. I can't seem to find anyone that has used the
Eureka yet that I can get some comments from, perhaps some radio
engineers here have installed one.

Any experience with this unit that can be shared will be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 6:13:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.radio.broadcasting,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Carl the Engineer" <Carl123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41C8E67A.24044468@yahoo.com...
> Ok, time for some technical discussion for the Engineers here.
>
> Setting up a new production studio, and the decision is between going
> with the industry standard Symetrix 528E, or trying the Presonus Eureka
> instead.
>
> Anyone here tried the Eureka yet?

I find the dbx286A does an adequate job for broadcasting at an affordable
price.

for a more demanding situation try a FMR RNP & RNC combination.

Aphex is comming out a new processor http://aphex.com/230.htm that they say
will be in the $800 range.
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 9:52:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.radio.broadcasting,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Without even hearing the Presonus, I wager the money be better spent
on the Symetrix... the older model, even better.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com



"Carl the Engineer" <Carl123@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:41C8E67A.24044468@yahoo.com...
> Ok, time for some technical discussion for the Engineers here.
>
> Setting up a new production studio, and the decision is between going
> with the industry standard Symetrix 528E, or trying the Presonus Eureka
> instead.
>
> Anyone here tried the Eureka yet?
Related resources
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 12:14:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hey Carl,

I would go for the better sounding one (to you, of course)
and use an external gate on the inserts.

Kind Regards
Nudge


Carl the Engineer wrote:
> Ok, time for some technical discussion for the Engineers here.
>
> Setting up a new production studio, and the decision is between going
> with the industry standard Symetrix 528E, or trying the Presonus Eureka
> instead.
>
> Anyone here tried the Eureka yet?
>
> They are offering the $200 digital output card for free if you buy the
> Eureka before the end of the month, and having digital out as well as
> analog is something I need anyway, so it can go directly into the DAW
> for voice-over production work.
>
> Since the 528E doesn't have digital out, this would have been an easy
> decision, but the 528E has a downward expander that is sort of like a
> gate to get rid of any studio noise when no one is talking into the mic.
>
> There doesn't seem to be any gating control of any kind on the Eureka,
> so I need to know if this is a problem for anyone using it in a
> broadcast studio. I can't seem to find anyone that has used the
> Eureka yet that I can get some comments from, perhaps some radio
> engineers here have installed one.
>
> Any experience with this unit that can be shared will be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de
December 22, 2004 6:54:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.radio.broadcasting,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Get a Behringer and pocket the difference.

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:13:01 GMT, Carl the Engineer
<Carl123@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Ok, time for some technical discussion for the Engineers here.
>
>Setting up a new production studio, and the decision is between going
>with the industry standard Symetrix 528E, or trying the Presonus Eureka
>instead.
>
>Anyone here tried the Eureka yet?
>
>They are offering the $200 digital output card for free if you buy the
>Eureka before the end of the month, and having digital out as well as
>analog is something I need anyway, so it can go directly into the DAW
>for voice-over production work.
>
>Since the 528E doesn't have digital out, this would have been an easy
>decision, but the 528E has a downward expander that is sort of like a
>gate to get rid of any studio noise when no one is talking into the mic.
>
>There doesn't seem to be any gating control of any kind on the Eureka,
>so I need to know if this is a problem for anyone using it in a
>broadcast studio. I can't seem to find anyone that has used the
>Eureka yet that I can get some comments from, perhaps some radio
>engineers here have installed one.
>
>Any experience with this unit that can be shared will be greatly
>appreciated.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
December 22, 2004 11:10:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Hey Carl,
>
> I would go for the better sounding one (to you, of course)
> and use an external gate on the inserts.

Who sells just an external gate that could be used as you suggest? How
much would it cost?
December 23, 2004 12:02:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> > > I would go for the better sounding one (to you, of course)
> > > and use an external gate on the inserts.
> >
> > Who sells just an external gate that could be used as you suggest? How
> > much would it cost?
>
> There's hardly anyone in the MI business that manufactures rack gear
> that doesn't have a gate in the product line.

The start of this thread was the fact that the Eureka did not, but had many other
features over the Symetrix, like digital outs.

Can you name just ONE mic processor that has both analog AND digital outputs that
has some sort of gating or downward expansion that is around $500?

> Downward expansion, built into the Symetrix 528, has many advantages
> over hard gating.

I agree. But it doesn't have digital out. If it did, I would go for the
Symetrix over the Eureka.
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 1:22:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.radio.broadcasting,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Carl the Engineer <Carl123@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Ok, time for some technical discussion for the Engineers here.
>
>Setting up a new production studio, and the decision is between going
>with the industry standard Symetrix 528E, or trying the Presonus Eureka
>instead.
>
>Anyone here tried the Eureka yet?
>
>They are offering the $200 digital output card for free if you buy the
>Eureka before the end of the month, and having digital out as well as
>analog is something I need anyway, so it can go directly into the DAW
>for voice-over production work.

For who? You got voice talent that need lots of AVC, or you just need
more limiting than gainriding? What kind of sound are you going for?

>Since the 528E doesn't have digital out, this would have been an easy
>decision, but the 528E has a downward expander that is sort of like a
>gate to get rid of any studio noise when no one is talking into the mic.

I find the effect of this to be really annoying, unless it's in a studio
where it is already so quiet that it's not needed. There are a very narrow
range of noise levels where this will work transparently.

>There doesn't seem to be any gating control of any kind on the Eureka,
>so I need to know if this is a problem for anyone using it in a
>broadcast studio. I can't seem to find anyone that has used the
>Eureka yet that I can get some comments from, perhaps some radio
>engineers here have installed one.

I cannot stand gating on voices. But then, I always disabled the damn
gate on the Orban Optimods too. Some people really like it, especially
the AOR guys for some reason.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 10:17:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> > > > I would go for the better sounding one (to you, of course)
> > > > and use an external gate on the inserts.
> > >
> > > Who sells just an external gate that could be used as you suggest?
How
> > > much would it cost?
> >
> > There's hardly anyone in the MI business that manufactures rack gear
> > that doesn't have a gate in the product line.
>
> The start of this thread was the fact that the Eureka did not, but had
many other
> features over the Symetrix, like digital outs.
>
> Can you name just ONE mic processor that has both analog AND digital
outputs that
> has some sort of gating or downward expansion that is around $500?

He was implying that nearly every company makes a gate unit, and that it
shouldn't be a requisite feature in a vocal processor, and I agree.

> > Downward expansion, built into the Symetrix 528, has many advantages
> > over hard gating.
>
> I agree. But it doesn't have digital out. If it did, I would go for
the
> Symetrix over the Eureka.

There is no affordable stand-alone A/D converter that compares to that in
the Eureka, but the expansion feature of the Symmetrix is easily
supplemented to the Eureka. On a feature-basis, the Eureka would seem to be
the better choice.
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 10:19:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.radio.broadcasting,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Get a Behringer and pocket the difference.

The difference would be the loss of all his clients that demand a
professional result. They won't fit in his pocket.
December 24, 2004 6:07:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.radio.broadcasting,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

''Professional result''??

What a snob.

http://www.behringer.com/VX2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:19:54 -0500, "Sugarite" <nobody@home.com>
wrote:

>> Get a Behringer and pocket the difference.
>
>The difference would be the loss of all his clients that demand a
>professional result. They won't fit in his pocket.
>
>
December 27, 2004 4:43:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.radio.broadcasting,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Without even hearing the Presonus, I wager the money be better spent
> on the Symetrix... the older model, even better.

And why would you say that? The specs are much better on the Presonus.
December 27, 2004 4:45:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.radio.broadcasting,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> > Setting up a new production studio, and the decision is between going
> > with the industry standard Symetrix 528E, or trying the Presonus Eureka
> > instead.
> >
> > Anyone here tried the Eureka yet?
>
> I find the dbx286A does an adequate job for broadcasting at an affordable
> price.

Ah, but that was not one of the options.

> Aphex is comming out a new processor http://aphex.com/230.htm that they say
> will be in the $800 range.

What was asked, was which of the two $500 processors was a better choice.
Listing other units that cost more and are much better than both is easy for
anyone to do, but not what was asked.
December 27, 2004 4:53:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> > > > > I would go for the better sounding one (to you, of course)
> > > > > and use an external gate on the inserts.
> > > >
> > > > Who sells just an external gate that could be used as you suggest?
> How
> > > > much would it cost?

No answer.

> > Can you name just ONE mic processor that has both analog AND digital
> outputs that
> > has some sort of gating or downward expansion that is around $500?
>
> He was implying that nearly every company makes a gate unit, and that it
> shouldn't be a requisite feature in a vocal processor, and I agree.

Again no answer to the question.

> > > Downward expansion, built into the Symetrix 528, has many advantages
> > > over hard gating.
> >
> > I agree. But it doesn't have digital out. If it did, I would go for
> the
> > Symetrix over the Eureka.
>
> the expansion feature of the Symmetrix is easily
> supplemented to the Eureka.

How so?

> On a feature-basis, the Eureka would seem to be
> the better choice.

Yes, except for the fact that it does not have gating or downward expansion,
which was something that was needed, and important to the decision between the
two units, as was being able to have digital out, thus the hard decision.
December 29, 2004 7:42:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.radio.broadcasting,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> > > Without even hearing the Presonus, I wager the money be better spent
> > > on the Symetrix... the older model, even better.
>
> > And why would you say that? The specs are much better on the Presonus.
>
> I try not to pay much attention to 'specs'... but rather use my ears.

Yet, you say above, "without even HEARING the Presonus"... so you don't go by
your ears OR by specs, how are you making the decision then?

> After that, I'll add in the experiences I've had with the manufacturer's
> products.

The Presonus is a class A amp, has distortion rated at 0.005% while the Symetrix
boasts 0.05%

Since both cost the same price, seems the Presonus engineers know how to design a
better quality product for the same costs.

> Presonus gear that I've used (even purchased for people due to the
> price range) has not impressed me nor held up well to heavy usage.

But you don't get impressed by listening to the products or the specs, only by
the brand name. By heavy usage, we don't even want to know what you mean. The
only way any equipment has ever failed on me, is when a station was struck by
lighting, and then everything went, including the phone system. I have
equipment from the 60s that still works. But I don't kick them or throw them
around as you probably do.

> I have Symetrix gear that is 15+ years old that is still singing right
> along... sounds and works as good today as when new.

I should hope so! Why would any gear only 15 years old just stop working?

I have radios 80 years old and older that still work. With original tubes yet
too! Nothing replaced, fixed or modified.

> The 528 (or 528E) is a multi-featured and highly flexible pre...

It sure is, and one of the most popular in use at radio stations. Yet too bad
it doesn't have an option for digital out, like the Presonus has. And too bad
the Presonus doesn't have a gate.

> one can often see either of them on e-Bay for 1/2 of the OP's budget.

Very rare. Most of the time, items on Ebay for scratched and used items without
warranties and manuals go for more than I can get them for at retail cost.
Sometimes you can save $100, but when you deduct for cosmetic damage, no manual,
no warranty, and pay for high Ebay shipping costs, you really are not saving
anything at all.
December 29, 2004 11:19:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Truth wrote:


> Anyone using tubes today is a quack.

I guess somebody just forgot to tell Doug Fearn, Eve Anna Manley, & Tim de
Paravacini.

--<snip>--


>> > The Presonus is a class A amp, has distortion rated at 0.005% while
>> > the Symetrix boasts 0.05%
>>
>> 'Specs' again.... The above means absolutely zero, nothing, zip,
>> zilch, nanda,
>
> That must be why every amp in the world lists the specs, because they mean
> absolutely
> nothing. They mean nothing to you, because you don't understand them.

Mostly, they list the specs with no indication of how the testing was done.
Usually they list them because they know clueless wankers like you will be
impressed by them.


>> > The only way any equipment has ever failed on me, is when a station was
>> > struck by lighting, and then everything went, including the phone
>> > system.
>>
>> <joke> Sounds like a grounding problem to me. </joke>
>
> Your insane. Without ground, lighting would not strike to begin with.
> Lightning LIKES grounded things.

The vast majority of all lightning strikes are from one cloud to another.
Look it up.


>> > I have equipment from the 60s that still works. But I don't kick
>> > them or throw them around as you probably do.
>>
>> You're funny. Are you trying to hurt my feelings?
>
> What feelings?
>
>> I'll hurl one of my 528s into a wall and you hurl your Eureka into the
>> same wall, and we'll come back and tell the OP which one survived
>> with the least damage.
>
> So the durability of the case is more important than the specs of the
> circuitry. Are you not embarrassed to make such statements?

Somebody who bothers to build quality equipment will usually care enough
about it to put it in a quality case. There are exceptions, on both sides.


> Let's judge a better bottle of wine by throwing both against brick walls
> too and see which one holds up better.

Now that's just dumb.

--<another snip>--

>> It seems we both see the OPs dilemma.
>
> No idea who the hell OP is.

Original Poster. New to usenet?


>> > > one can often see either of them on e-Bay for 1/2 of the OP's budget.
>
> Again, no one knows what you are talking about, but if you want to play
> code, then two can play at that game.
>
>> > Very rare. Most of the time, items on Ebay for scratched and used
>> > items without warranties and manuals go for more than I can get them
>> > for at retail cost. Sometimes you can save $100, but when you deduct
>> > for cosmetic damage, no manual, no warranty, and pay for high Ebay
>> > shipping costs, you really are not saving anything at all.
>>
>> You are also jumping at the first available item and not dealing with
>> more specific auctions and sellers that meet your standards.
>
> No, over the past decade, not ONCE has a Shure SM-7 ever sold on Ebay for
> less than
> retail price. Even without a windscreen, banged up and damaged, morons
> always end up
> paying more than retail for them.

That's hard to believe. Why would anybody go to Ebay & pay more than
retail when Markertek, Full Compass, & even AMS sells them every day for
substantially less than retail?


> Because Ebay is an AUCTION site.
>
> Do you know what an AUCTION is??
>
> An auction is a contest in which people compete to see who can pay the
> MOST for an item.
>
>> The 'no manual,'
>> 'cosmetic damage' scenarios are specific to individual auction items.
>
> What about what the XQs contribute?
>
>> No
>> one should recommend buying the first item you see that you may want,
>> from a seller that has a bad rep, abused gear, or doesn't have manuals.
>
> So then you agree that the DXZs are the real reason then. Good.
>
>> I only replied because my luck with Presonus gear has been less than
>> optimal,
>
> And you completely ignore the reviews in which more than one reviewer who
> were not big fans of Presonus were really impressed with the Eureka and
> couldn't rave enough about it.

Reviews in magazines that get advertizing revenue from Presonus?


>> and my experience with Symetrix has been superbly positive.
>
> Interesting that no one in the recording industry uses them, only in
> broadcast. The specs are good enough for broadcast, and it is designed
> to hold up in areas with strong RF fields, and things the recording
> industry doesn't really need.

Have you ever actually met anybody in the recording industry? Where do you
get these ideas?
December 29, 2004 11:40:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.radio.broadcasting,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I think he answered his own question with the first post.
> Most places use the Symetrix 528e

Most RADIO STATIONS. I never seen any recording studio use a Symetrix 528E!

> There's a reason for that.

Yes, it is made for the broadcast environment, has more protection against RF, and doesn't
need the high specs the recording industry needs.
December 29, 2004 11:43:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I cannot stand gating on voices. But then, I always disabled the damn
> gate on the Orban Optimods too.

Why? So long as the audio is above the threshold, it would never be used
anyway. Only when there is dead air, and then it is a good thing to have that
gate.

> Some people really like it, especially
> the AOR guys for some reason.

That is not a good argument for you. Now if you said it was something the
CHR people liked, THEN you might have a point.
Anonymous
December 30, 2004 8:42:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Have a nice day.
!