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Anonymous
December 24, 2004 11:33:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello...

I have been holding back on asking questions (I always like to lurk
for a while in a newsgroup to get a feel for it...), and was wondering
if it is permissable to ask a series of newbie questions...or will I
get treated like the proverbial "skunk at a garden party"?

I am a mid-50's musician who is helping his son get set up with a
decent PA setup...purchasing equipment as the funds will allow. I
recently purchased a Peavey MB-II 16-channel mixing board, and want to
purchase a 400-600 watt power amp, but I know virtully nothing about
them other than how to connect a very low output power amp to send a
signal to the speakers and to set up a different power amp to power
the monitors.

I know nothing about the various power rating schemes...especially
when they refer to bridged output. Is there some place online to do
some serious reading about this or is there someone who frequents this
newsgroup that would be willing to answer a series of what will appear
to be inane questions from this middle-aged newbie.

Thanks...

Doug
Anonymous
December 24, 2004 11:33:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

w989531 wrote:
> Hello...
>
> I have been holding back on asking questions (I always like to lurk
> for a while in a newsgroup to get a feel for it...), and was
wondering
> if it is permissable to ask a series of newbie questions...or will I
> get treated like the proverbial "skunk at a garden party"?

> Doug


The vast majority of regulars on this groups are very poilte,
friendly, and knowledgeable people. There are a few frequent trolls
just looking for someone to mess with but you can easily ignore that
element. Fire away with your questions.

Oh, and buy your son a copy of The Yamaha Sound Reinforcement
Handbook. For any any aspect of audio it's probably the best $35 you'll
ever spend.
December 24, 2004 11:43:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Start here.... Then ask away.
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/ampins.htm

Jack

<w989531> wrote in message
news:6ujps0p4gn2nqqvgi54v16mbhndviekv8n@4ax.com...
>
> Hello...
>
> I have been holding back on asking questions (I always like to lurk
> for a while in a newsgroup to get a feel for it...), and was wondering
> if it is permissable to ask a series of newbie questions...or will I
> get treated like the proverbial "skunk at a garden party"?
>
> I am a mid-50's musician who is helping his son get set up with a
> decent PA setup...purchasing equipment as the funds will allow. I
> recently purchased a Peavey MB-II 16-channel mixing board, and want to
> purchase a 400-600 watt power amp, but I know virtully nothing about
> them other than how to connect a very low output power amp to send a
> signal to the speakers and to set up a different power amp to power
> the monitors.
>
> I know nothing about the various power rating schemes...especially
> when they refer to bridged output. Is there some place online to do
> some serious reading about this or is there someone who frequents this
> newsgroup that would be willing to answer a series of what will appear
> to be inane questions from this middle-aged newbie.
>
> Thanks...
>
> Doug
>
Related resources
Anonymous
December 24, 2004 11:47:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<w989531> wrote in message
news:6ujps0p4gn2nqqvgi54v16mbhndviekv8n@4ax.com...
>
> Hello...
>
> I have been holding back on asking questions (I always like to lurk
> for a while in a newsgroup to get a feel for it...), and was wondering
> if it is permissable to ask a series of newbie questions...or will I
> get treated like the proverbial "skunk at a garden party"?
>
> I am a mid-50's musician who is helping his son get set up with a
> decent PA setup...purchasing equipment as the funds will allow. I
> recently purchased a Peavey MB-II 16-channel mixing board, and want to
> purchase a 400-600 watt power amp, but I know virtully nothing about
> them other than how to connect a very low output power amp to send a
> signal to the speakers and to set up a different power amp to power
> the monitors.
>
> I know nothing about the various power rating schemes...especially
> when they refer to bridged output. Is there some place online to do
> some serious reading about this or is there someone who frequents this
> newsgroup that would be willing to answer a series of what will appear
> to be inane questions from this middle-aged newbie.
>
> Thanks...
>
> Doug

Welcome aboard. Sure, it's okay to ask elementary questions here.
Unfortunately, I'm not the guy to answer your questions. Others will be
more qualified and will chime in no doubt. However, I think that there are
other news groups that may be a better fit for PA systems. Something,
something, live sound seems to ring a bell.

Steve King
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 2:05:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<w989531@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I am a mid-50's musician who is helping his son get set up with a
>decent PA setup...purchasing equipment as the funds will allow. I
>recently purchased a Peavey MB-II 16-channel mixing board, and want to
>purchase a 400-600 watt power amp, but I know virtully nothing about
>them other than how to connect a very low output power amp to send a
>signal to the speakers and to set up a different power amp to power
>the monitors.

That's pretty much all you need to know.

>I know nothing about the various power rating schemes...especially
>when they refer to bridged output. Is there some place online to do
>some serious reading about this or is there someone who frequents this
>newsgroup that would be willing to answer a series of what will appear
>to be inane questions from this middle-aged newbie.

Most of the rating schemes are basically giving you meaningless numbers.
They are often VERY strongly fudged.

Pick something that is rated for about the power level the speakers claim
to want, into the load the speaker has.

If you bridge a stereo amplifier, you can turn it into a mono amplifier
with twice the voltage output. This means you can drive more power into
high impedance loads, but you can't drive low impedance loads very well.
If you aren't running the amp in bridged mode, ignore the numbers.

>Thanks...

Look at the QSC RMX-series amps. They are pretty bulletproof and don't have
anything fancy in them. They sound good and just keep working.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 2:40:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Doug wrote ...
> I have been holding back on asking questions (I always like to lurk
> for a while in a newsgroup to get a feel for it...), and was wondering
> if it is permissable to ask a series of newbie questions...or will I
> get treated like the proverbial "skunk at a garden party"?
>
> I am a mid-50's musician who is helping his son get set up with a
> decent PA setup...

Microphones and mixers are a regular topic of discussion here in
news:rec.audio.pro However, discussion about the amplifiers and
speakers used for reinforcement (PA) would be a better fit in a news-
group specifically chartered for reinforcement issues, namely:
news:alt.audio.pro.live-sound
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 6:26:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:33:27 -0600, w989531 wrote:

>I know nothing about the various power rating schemes...

One thing that must seem very strange and counter-intuitive
is that the number is very misleading. This happens for two
reasons; first, our hearing is logarithmic but our natural
inclinations are linear.

IOW, 100 *must* be twice as good as 200, right? ...But our
hearing grades loudness on a very steep curve. This is good
because it allows us to hear over a volume range of 10
to the power of 14 to one. Way, way beyond the other senses.

Second, there's another gotcha in amplifier power output numbers:
they're only related to acoustic power through the
intermediary of the loudspeaker. The loudspeaker's efficiency
in "transducing" electrical current into air pressure
variations can be different by several orders of magnitude.

Bottom line, "power output" alone is totally insignificant
and is also not an indicator of quality. NASA warns against the
dangers of designing to a "figure of merit fallacy". Nowhere
in audio work is this more apparent than here, methinks.

Good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 6:30:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 03:26:36 GMT, Chris Hornbeck
<chrishornbeckremovethis@att.net> wrote:

>IOW, 100 *must* be twice as good as 200, right? ...

This guy's an idiot. Who wrote this?

Merry, merry,

Chris Hornbeck
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 6:32:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I have been holding back on asking questions (I always like to lurk
> for a while in a newsgroup to get a feel for it...), and was wondering
> if it is permissable to ask a series of newbie questions...or will I
> get treated like the proverbial "skunk at a garden party"?

I think the people here are a bit nicer, but you can also ask at
alt.audio.pro.live-sound for guys who deal mostly in live sound.
Rec.audio.pro guys tend more towards recording and production. Expect a few
behringer recommendations though, as there are some there who promote it
with religious fervor. I haven't ever tried their power amps, so don't ask
me.
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 7:54:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:33:27 -0600, w989531 wrote:

>
>Hello...
>
>I have been holding back on asking questions (I always like to lurk
>for a while in a newsgroup to get a feel for it...), and was wondering
>if it is permissable to ask a series of newbie questions...or will I
>get treated like the proverbial "skunk at a garden party"?

Since you're wanting to be careful about asking questions, you
might want to read the FAQ for the group at:

http://www.recaudiopro.net

and then ask questions that aren't already answered in the FAQ.

>...

>Thanks...
>
>Doug

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 1:57:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:33:27 -0600, w989531 wrote:

>
>Hello...
>
>I have been holding back on asking questions (I always like to lurk
>for a while in a newsgroup to get a feel for it...), and was wondering
>if it is permissable to ask a series of newbie questions...or will I
>get treated like the proverbial "skunk at a garden party"?
>
>I am a mid-50's musician who is helping his son get set up with a
>decent PA setup...purchasing equipment as the funds will allow. I
>recently purchased a Peavey MB-II 16-channel mixing board, and want to
>purchase a 400-600 watt power amp, but I know virtully nothing about
>them other than how to connect a very low output power amp to send a
>signal to the speakers and to set up a different power amp to power
>the monitors.

get a Tannhauser.

>
>I know nothing about the various power rating schemes...especially
>when they refer to bridged output. Is there some place online to do
>some serious reading about this or is there someone who frequents this
>newsgroup that would be willing to answer a series of what will appear
>to be inane questions from this middle-aged newbie.
>
>Thanks...
>
>Doug
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 4:00:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<w989531> wrote in message news:6ujps0p4gn2nqqvgi54v16mbhndviekv8n@4ax.com...


> I know nothing about the various power rating schemes...

Niether do most of us, since "schemes" is a pretty good description
much of the time. There are various ways of measuring amplifier power,
and while they will always tell you the number of watts, they rarely
tell you how it was measured. There are ways to measure the same
amplifier that will get you numbers ranging over a few hundred
percent. Best thing you can do is stick with a reputable brand that
specializes in amplifiers for live sound and use an amplifier that's
rated just a bit higher than your speakers are rated (and hope that
the speaker rating is as valid as the amplifier rating).

> especially when they refer to bridged output.

That's pretty easy. In bridged mode (and not all amplifiers can
accommodate this) the two channels are essentially wired in series,
raising the available power, but also raising the minimum load
(speaker) impedance. But because of the way that power works, you can
usually get more power into a speaker (however it's mesasured) from an
amplifier in bridge mode than in dual channel mode. But then you have
only one channel. In your situation, I'd ignore bridging and look for
a reasonably hefty two channel amplifier. Use one channel for the
mains and the other for monitors. When you want to expand the system,
then you can consider other configurations.

> Is there some place online to do
> some serious reading about this

On-line isn't always the best way to read about fundamentals. I'd
recommend getting a copy of the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook.
It covers a lot of ground, but it's well written and will be a good
reference as you learn more and need more.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 1:14:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<marketing@mistral.net> wrote:

> get a Tannhauser

That's a contender for a fine example of a completely useless response
to a request for information about amplifiers. Which model Tannhauser do
you suggest, and why? Are you a marketing human for those?

--
ha
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 1:14:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

hank alrich wrote:

>>get a Tannhauser
>
>
> That's a contender for a fine example of a completely useless response
> to a request for information about amplifiers. Which model Tannhauser do
> you suggest, and why? Are you a marketing human for those?

What the hell is a Tannhauser?
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 1:14:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Joe Sensor wrote:
> Not from direct experience, but, I have heard that the large power
amps,
> while maybe not sounding the best, are quite robust. Even after many
> decades of hard use.

You heard correctly. As someone that did a lot of touring with bands
for about five years (1995-2000) one of the few consistantly reliable
things I could expect is that an old Peavey CS-400 or CS-800 would
simply never die. I have seen a _lot_ of those amps in small clubs and
bars all over North America. Many of them looked decades old or
appeared to have been dropped off a tall building. But they always
worked. Some would say that they sound bad, but with most small bars
and clubs there's so much other awful stuff in the signal path that I
don't see how anyone could tell. So I won't try to blame the typically
bad PA in most clubs on one Peavey product. Ultimately they got the job
done.
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 1:57:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Joe Sensor wrote:

> What the hell is a Tannhauser?

Could be the exact opposite of a Palehauser. Might become big in
Seattle.

--
ha
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 2:15:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:33:27 -0600, w989531 wrote:

>
>Hello...
>
>I have been holding back on asking questions (I always like to lurk
>for a while in a newsgroup to get a feel for it...), and was wondering
>if it is permissable to ask a series of newbie questions...or will I
>get treated like the proverbial "skunk at a garden party"?
>
>I am a mid-50's musician who is helping his son get set up with a
>decent PA setup...purchasing equipment as the funds will allow. I
>recently purchased a Peavey MB-II 16-channel mixing board, and want to
>purchase a 400-600 watt power amp, but I know virtully nothing about
>them other than how to connect a very low output power amp to send a
>signal to the speakers and to set up a different power amp to power
>the monitors.

Peavey?...Yuck! In fact, double yuck! Did some sales guy at a local music store
sell you that saying "it was the best mixer in the world"?...Or even in his
store?
You'll have to excuse me but most everyone in this group talks about
professional equipment and I've not even wanted to use a Peavey in years. As
some have already said most of us here are recording guys but do or have done
some Live Sound Reinforcement.
If you feel happy with the Peavey line of gear then that's your gig but I would
say never buy it again and start getting better quality gear one piece at a
time. At least look at a Soundcraft GigRac 600 for front end, QSC and Crown
make darn good power amps to.
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 2:15:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Raymond wrote:

> Peavey?...Yuck! In fact, double yuck! Did some sales guy at a local music store

Not from direct experience, but, I have heard that the large power amps,
while maybe not sounding the best, are quite robust. Even after many
decades of hard use.
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 3:17:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Joe Sensor wrote:

> Raymond wrote:

> > Peavey?...Yuck! In fact, double yuck! Did some sales guy at a local
>> music store

> Not from direct experience, but, I have heard that the large power amps,
> while maybe not sounding the best, are quite robust. Even after many
> decades of hard use.

Yep, and the VMP2 tube mic pre and VCL2 tube compressor are fine units.
Maybe we could try to help the guy with his real needs, instead of
suggesting he get rid of everything he's already bought in support of
his kid's music.

--
ha
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 4:24:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 25 Dec 2004 23:15:09 GMT, bruwhaha58097238@aol.com (Raymond) wrote:

>Peavey?...Yuck! In fact, double yuck!

The highlight of my SR gig this season was doing sound for
Leo Kottke, who's feet do not touch the Earth, IMHO. His rider
included one possibly humorous line "No Peavey gear!".

Our theater has several generations of old PA equipment
stored and forgotten, including a 1970's looking Peavey
mixer/amp and pair of matching speakers. Very retro
looking, complete with chrome paint pinstripes and shiny
bullet tweeters, maybe integrated into the front panels (?).

The TD and I got the bright idea of setting this contraption
up in Leo's dressing room to greet him before soundcheck.
Fortunately or not, we chickened out. He turned out to be
such a wonderful gentleman and such a pro that he probably
would have enjoyed the joke.

FWIW, I work with lots of equipment that gets maligned by
folks who's opinions I respect. But if I don't turn it up too
loud, I can make it all work together. The OP likely will too.

Good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
"They'd meet at the Tout Va Bien."
-JLG, _Bande a part_, 1964
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 12:37:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1gpck0e.1po7gd41vuryj8N%walkinay@thegrid.net> walkinay@thegrid.net writes:

> > get a Tannhauser
>
> That's a contender for a fine example of a completely useless response
> to a request for information about amplifiers.

I agree. I thought a Tannhauser was some breed of dog.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 2:42:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1104027967k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>In article <1gpck0e.1po7gd41vuryj8N%walkinay@thegrid.net> walkinay@thegrid.net writes:
>
>> > get a Tannhauser
>>
>> That's a contender for a fine example of a completely useless response
>> to a request for information about amplifiers.
>
>I agree. I thought a Tannhauser was some breed of dog.

It's got a great overture, but I don't like the ending.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 5:26:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Questions, even stupid ones, will get a helpful answer if you have
done your homework. Read the FAQs, and do a Google search or two on
your question (learn how to use the Google groups search to search
newsgroups like this one. Chances are the question has been asked and
answered before. Read some recommended books. Then, when you do ask a
question, you will know what to ask, and what relevant information to
provide to get the most helpful answer.

Example: "What is the best mic for under $200?" will not get you a
really useful answer. "I am trying to mic an acoustic steel stringed
guitar played by a folk singer who tends to pound chords pretty hard
in a small church" will get you some recommendations (and probably a
few more questions about what you are trying to do.

Doing your homework will make your questions a lot more intelligent.
Plus the members of the group will appreciate thay you are not just
being lazy and having them do you work for you.

On 25 Dec 2004 23:15:09 GMT, bruwhaha58097238@aol.com (Raymond) wrote:

>On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:33:27 -0600, w989531 wrote:
>
>>I have been holding back on asking questions (I always like to lurk
>>for a while in a newsgroup to get a feel for it...), and was wondering
>>if it is permissable to ask a series of newbie questions...or will I
>>get treated like the proverbial "skunk at a garden party"?
Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 9:28:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Paul Thomas wrote:

> As someone that did a lot of touring with bands
> for about five years (1995-2000) one of the few consistantly reliable
> things I could expect is that an old Peavey CS-400 or CS-800 would
> simply never die. I have seen a _lot_ of those amps in small clubs and
> bars all over North America. Many of them looked decades old or
> appeared to have been dropped off a tall building. But they always
> worked. Some would say that they sound bad, but with most small bars
> and clubs there's so much other awful stuff in the signal path that I
> don't see how anyone could tell.

Firstly, they often sound bad because they're driving Peavey speakers,
and secondly, I know they don't have to sound bad because Sandy Bull was
using a CS-800 to drive a pair of Tannoy Gold 10's w/Mastering Lab
crossovers for mix mons, and the stuff he played me sounded wonderful.

--
ha
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 10:31:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:26:15 GMT, wkyee@bestweb.netttttttttttttttt
(Willie K.Yee, M.D.) wrote:

>Questions, even stupid ones, will get a helpful answer if you have
>done your homework. Read the FAQs, and do a Google search or two on
>your question (learn how to use the Google groups search to search
>newsgroups like this one. Chances are the question has been asked and
>answered before. Read some recommended books. Then, when you do ask a
>question, you will know what to ask, and what relevant information to
>provide to get the most helpful answer.
>
>Example: "What is the best mic for under $200?" will not get you a
>really useful answer. "I am trying to mic an acoustic steel stringed
>guitar played by a folk singer who tends to pound chords pretty hard
>in a small church" will get you some recommendations (and probably a
>few more questions about what you are trying to do.
>
>Doing your homework will make your questions a lot more intelligent.
>Plus the members of the group will appreciate thay you are not just
>being lazy and having them do you work for you.
>
>On 25 Dec 2004 23:15:09 GMT, bruwhaha58097238@aol.com (Raymond) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:33:27 -0600, w989531 wrote:
>>
>>>I have been holding back on asking questions (I always like to lurk
>>>for a while in a newsgroup to get a feel for it...), and was wondering
>>>if it is permissable to ask a series of newbie questions...or will I
>>>get treated like the proverbial "skunk at a garden party"?
>Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
>Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
>Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

Thanks for the information. Just to qualify my question, I have done
extensive Google searches and have found some sites that have a wealth
of information, such as companies selling audio snakes. I have never
had the pleasure of setting up a PA using a snake, and although I
realize that all it is is a connecting device running a pre-defined
distance between the microphones and monitors and the console, I have
not had a chance to "muck about" with one. So, buying something like a
16-connector snake is in order when the household finances deem it
possible. What I don't understand here is "what purpose the return
lines for the monitors (if I read the web page properly) serve".
Another reason to want to play around with this stuff.

I have ordered 3 books through Amazon, one of which is the Yamaha
Sound Reinforcement Book. I shall eagerly devour the contents of the
books and will most certainly come out with more knowledge than when
going in.

I always do my homework before asking a bunch of questions. I agree
that it is most aggravating to have someone want you to read the
manual and then regurgitate the information to them in spurts.

Thanks again for your input...

Doug
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 5:32:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I always do my homework before asking a bunch of questions. I agree
> that it is most aggravating to have someone want you to read the
> manual and then regurgitate the information to them in spurts.
>
> Thanks again for your input...
>
> Doug

Doug if your around CNY I will take you out and teach you first hand all
about live sound rigs, and pay you to learn as well
george
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 6:45:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<w989531> wrote:

> What I don't understand here is "what purpose the return
> lines for the monitors (if I read the web page properly) serve".
> Another reason to want to play around with this stuff.

Those are how you send signal(s) back to the stage to feed the house or
monitor speaker system(s).

--
ha
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 8:27:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Doug wrote
Thanks for the information. Just to qualify my question, I have done
extensive Google searches and have found some sites that have a wealth
of information, such as companies selling audio snakes. I have never
had the pleasure of setting up a PA using a snake, and although I
realize that all it is is a connecting device running a pre-defined
distance between the microphones and monitors and the console, I have
not had a chance to "muck about" with one. So, buying something like a
16-connector snake is in order when the household finances deem it
possible. What I don't understand here is "what purpose the return
lines for the monitors (if I read the web page properly) serve".
Another reason to want to play around with this stuff.

I have ordered 3 books through Amazon, one of which is the Yamaha
Sound Reinforcement Book. I shall eagerly devour the contents of the
books and will most certainly come out with more knowledge than when
going in.

I always do my homework before asking a bunch of questions. I agree
that it is most aggravating to have someone want you to read the
manual and then regurgitate the information to them in spurts.>




What you buy is only determined by what your needs are, if you need a snake
then you buy a snake, if your playing in small places and you don't need a
snake don't buy a snake.
The books will help but you have to also know what it is your doing and exactly
what you need to do your shows. For example...If your a one man guitar and
singer act it would be a huge waist to use a 40 channel console. You see what I
mean?
I would say for your to go to your local (or nearest) SR (sound) company and
see if he can hook you up with a system. There's a good chance they may have a
small (or large) PA that has low mileage and worth the cost, you will also gain
a friend that will help you with any questions you'll have with it.
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 10:08:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <c130t0508irk2j2nqtdbjlc5orcv0tsfal@4ax.com> w989531@hotmail.com writes:

> Thanks for the information. Just to qualify my question, I have done
> extensive Google searches and have found some sites that have a wealth
> of information, such as companies selling audio snakes.

With the Internet, it's possible to have too much information. Wires
are wires and they serve the same purpose whether they're bundled
together or run separately.

> What I don't understand here is "what purpose the return
> lines for the monitors (if I read the web page properly) serve".

What you may not understand is how signals are fed to monitors. The
assumption, when using a snake like this, is that there's a separate
power amplifier (or powered speaker) at the stage end dedicated to the
monitors. You send this amplifier a mix that comes from a different
output of the console than the main PA speakers. At minimum, this
gives you a separate volume control (from the console) of the monitor
level, and typically, it allows you to have a somewhat different mix
in the monitors than what the audience hears from the main speakers.
The reason why you'd want this is that a singer may not need to hear
the guitar at full volume, but wants to hear his own voice, or another
singer with whom he's harmonizing, clearly and loud.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 11:50:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>
>Doug if your around CNY I will take you out and teach you first hand all
>about live sound rigs, and pay you to learn as well
>george

Thank you (and the others who have been so gracious in replying). The
information that I have received so far has been invaluable. I have
received confirmation from Amazon that the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement
book is on the way.

Thanks for the most generous offer, George, but I live half a
continent away in Manitoba, Canada. We do have a music store which is
part of the Long & McQuade chain that is well known for renting PA
gear. Plus, a friend of mine started working in the store recently, so
that gives me one more source of answers.

I do believe that I will wait until I finish the Yamaha book before
firing off some more questions.

Thanks again to all who answered...and have taken some of the ??? out
of the return lines on the snake.

Regards,

Doug
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 11:21:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

While you're cruising the web, don't forget the RANE website... some
outstanding technical notes there, too. Rane note 110 for example,
will help you through a myriad of wiring and interfacing issues.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com



<w989531> wrote in message news:c130t0508irk2j2nqtdbjlc5orcv0tsfal@4ax.com...

> Thanks for the information. Just to qualify my question, I have done
> extensive Google searches and have found some sites that have a wealth
> of information
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 12:10:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 08:21:07 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
<mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote:

>While you're cruising the web, don't forget the RANE website... some
>outstanding technical notes there, too. Rane note 110 for example,
>will help you through a myriad of wiring and interfacing issues.


Thanks very much for providing the information regarding the RANES
site. It has been bookmarked for viewing later on today.

Regards,

Doug
Anonymous
December 31, 2004 10:22:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2004-12-26, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:

> Peavey is a funny company.

You got that right. I've known several guitarists who absolutely loved
their Peavey guitars. And I have a Peavey MIDI controller that I'd be
lost without. I believe someone mentioned Peavey gear that "lasts for
decades." The thing to consider about that, is that was the stuff they
made then -- decades ago -- when they were on top of the game.
Anonymous
January 2, 2005 10:54:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

w989531 wrote:
> Hello...
>
> I have been holding back on asking questions (I always like to lurk
> for a while in a newsgroup to get a feel for it...), and was
wondering
> if it is permissable to ask a series of newbie questions...or will I
> get treated like the proverbial "skunk at a garden party"?

> Doug


The vast majority of regulars on this groups are very poilte,
friendly, and knowledgeable people. There are a few frequent trolls
just looking for someone to mess with but you can easily ignore that
element. Fire away with your questions.

Oh, and buy your son a copy of The Yamaha Sound Reinforcement
Handbook. For any any aspect of audio it's probably the best $35 you'll
ever spend.
Anonymous
January 2, 2005 11:09:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

the best thing to do is to ask very specific questions. and also don't
try to cram a thousand general ideas into one giant question. and if
it's a buying question, mention budget.

for example:
(bad question): what's a good microphone?
(good question): my son is doing a basement rock band thing. he needs
a microphone for his rehearsals. what's a good vocal mic for about
$100 to fill this need?
it's easier for people to respond to things that way.
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 11:56:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1104725385.741250.65890@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> genericaudioperson@hotmail.com writes:

> the best thing to do is to ask very specific questions. and also don't
> try to cram a thousand general ideas into one giant question. and if
> it's a buying question, mention budget.
>
> for example:
> (bad question): what's a good microphone?
> (good question): my son is doing a basement rock band thing. he needs
> a microphone for his rehearsals. what's a good vocal mic for about
> $100 to fill this need?

A "good" question like that will prompt a whole string of replies
like:

What kind of music?
What other equipment are you using?
Will you be using it for recording or PA or both?
Why limit yourself to $100?
What mics have you already tried?
Why don't you go to a music store and try some out on your own voice?


and so on, prompting further off-topic discussion

But the real answer is "Shure SM58."


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 9:02:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2005-01-02 6ujps0p4gn2nqqvgi54v16mbhndviekv8n@4ax.com said:
>the best thing to do is to ask very specific questions. and also
>don't try to cram a thousand general ideas into one giant question.
>and if it's a buying question, mention budget.

THe faq for this newsgroup puts it quite well and I quote:

Q1.4 - I need to ask the group for help with selecting a piece of
equipment. What information should I provide in my message?
If you are going to post a request for advice on buying
equipment, please provide the following information.

Your application for the equipment
What other equipment you will be using it with
Your budget for the equipment
Any specific requirements the equipment should have
There is nothing worse than messages like "Can anyone recommend a
DAT machine for me to buy?" Sure we can. But what do you want
to _do_ with it? We can recommend DAT machines for $400 or for
$14,000.

sOme of us out here still don't google as we're on text terminals etc.
IF you're one of those make sure you've downloaded and read the faq
and provided us useful information to help you. A well framed
question is sure to generate a response which will steer you to
sources of information.




Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--
January 4, 2005 12:30:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1104757873k@trad...
>
> In article <1104725385.741250.65890@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
> genericaudioperson@hotmail.com writes:
>
>> the best thing to do is to ask very specific questions. and also don't
>> try to cram a thousand general ideas into one giant question. and if
>> it's a buying question, mention budget.
>>
>> for example:
>> (bad question): what's a good microphone?
>> (good question): my son is doing a basement rock band thing. he needs
>> a microphone for his rehearsals. what's a good vocal mic for about
>> $100 to fill this need?
>
> A "good" question like that will prompt a whole string of replies
> like:
>
> What kind of music?
> What other equipment are you using?
> Will you be using it for recording or PA or both?
> Why limit yourself to $100?
> What mics have you already tried?
> Why don't you go to a music store and try some out on your own voice?
>
>
> and so on, prompting further off-topic discussion
>
> But the real answer is "Shure SM58."

Dang, and to think I've wasted all this time lurking here when THAT was the
answer.....DANG!

dave
;-)

>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
!