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My vote for all-time worst recording of a holiday song

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December 26, 2004 12:34:04 AM

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Have Yourself A Merry Christmas by the Pretenders. I don't know when this
was released but I just noticed it this year on our local station that's
playing holiday music 24/7 through Christmas. Good god, this chick couldn't
hit a pitch with a truck, sounds like it was recorded in a karaoke bar. It's
so bad it's hilarious.
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 12:34:05 AM

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Doc wrote:
>
> Have Yourself A Merry Christmas by the Pretenders. I don't know when this
> was released but I just noticed it this year on our local station that's
> playing holiday music 24/7 through Christmas. Good god, this chick couldn't
> hit a pitch with a truck, sounds like it was recorded in a karaoke bar. It's
> so bad it's hilarious.


I like it. The first time I ever heard it was on the charity album "A
Very Special Christmas" in 1988 or so.

I heard it on XM earlier today.
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 12:34:05 AM

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Doc wrote:
> Have Yourself A Merry Christmas by the Pretenders. I don't know when
this
> was released but I just noticed it this year on our local station
that's
> playing holiday music 24/7 through Christmas. Good god, this chick
couldn't
> hit a pitch with a truck, sounds like it was recorded in a karaoke
bar. It's
> so bad it's hilarious.


She was on some special singing with the Black Boys of Alabama I think
it was yesterday. Man she was really ruining that song. I mean, she
did some good tunes back when, but you gotta know what you can't do.
Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 1:03:53 AM

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"Doc" <docsavage20@Xhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:g1lzd.1392$qf5.511@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Have Yourself A Merry Christmas by the Pretenders. I don't know when this
> was released but I just noticed it this year on our local station that's
> playing holiday music 24/7 through Christmas. Good god, this chick
couldn't
> hit a pitch with a truck, sounds like it was recorded in a karaoke bar.
It's
> so bad it's hilarious.
>

I keep watching this thread and so far I've been pleased that the sort of
death metal version of Jingle Bells my band mate Tim McCarthy put together
( that I listed in another thread ) hasn't been mentioned yet. ;-)

John L Rice
Drummer@ImJohn.com
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 5:11:49 AM

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On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 21:34:04 GMT, "Doc" <docsavage20@Xhotmail.com>
wrote:

>Have Yourself A Merry Christmas by the Pretenders. I don't know when this
>was released but I just noticed it this year on our local station that's
>playing holiday music 24/7 through Christmas. Good god, this chick couldn't
>hit a pitch with a truck, sounds like it was recorded in a karaoke bar. It's
>so bad it's hilarious.

How dare you post this right after posting your own mp3! :)  Though
I enjoyed hearing a good and never-before-heard rendition of a
well-worn tune.

There's this song I heard too many times this year, with a female
voice singing "hurry down the chimmney tonight" [trying not to
speculate on the meaning], but it sounds like the same singer and era
as "I want a hippopotamus for Christmas" which I always thought was
cute and amusing, but didn't hear this year.

On to something else, earlier this week I saw a very talented and
experienced singer (exact place, date and names intentionally obscured
to protect the innocent) I had heard before, singing a lovely and
traditional Christmas song, but the horror was that she forgot a
couple of the lines. I felt so bad for her...

As far as your original post, I hear enough popular renditions of
Christmas songs that if I don't immediately like something, I turn the
station or turn it off, so if I ever heard the Pretenders singing
that, I probably wouldn't remember.

OTOH, there's Bob Rivers' Twisted Christmas...

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 5:11:50 AM

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Ben Bradley wrote:

> As far as your original post, I hear enough popular renditions of
> Christmas songs that if I don't immediately like something, I turn the
> station or turn it off, so if I ever heard the Pretenders singing
> that, I probably wouldn't remember.

Nothing wrong with it. Chrissie Hynde has a very unique voice which some
find appealing and I am sure some don't. Doesn't mean she can't hold a
tune. At least, unlike most of the new crop of "singers", she sings it,
no autotune or "guide tracks".
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 5:11:50 AM

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On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 02:11:49 GMT, Ben Bradley
<ben_nospam_bradley@mindspring.com> wrote:

> OTOH, there's Bob Rivers' Twisted Christmas... <snip>

THE best roasting Tchiakovski ever had!

"Buttcracker Suite":

'See the big bear man go chinka chink...chinka chink...chinka
chink...working on the sink!'

<bending way down lowwwww....>

'See the big tool belt go slippy slip...slippy slip...slippy
slip...sliding down his hip..."

<say it isn't soooooo....>

'See the real cleavage go peekaboo...peekaboo...peekaboo...cheeky
sneaking through...'

'See the plumber...whatta bummer...call another...hire someone else!'
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 6:00:04 AM

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Ben Bradley: > There's this song I heard too many times this year, with a
female
>voice singing "hurry down the chimmney tonight" [trying not to
>speculate on the meaning],

This song is called "Santa Baby" and the most notorious version is by the
notorious Eartha Kitt (the Cat Woman from the Batman series). I used to like
the song until I was at a party and the daughter of a freind of mine, the most
despicable Princess I've ever known, played the song over and over and over
again proclaiming it to be her favorite Xmas song. If you know all the words
to the song, you will know why I now cringe when I hear it!
December 27, 2004 2:19:38 AM

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"Jim Kollens" <jimkollens@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041225220004.21648.00002282@mb-m11.aol.com...

> I used to like
> the song until I was at a party and the daughter of a freind of mine, the
most
> despicable Princess I've ever known, played the song over and over and
over
> again proclaiming it to be her favorite Xmas song. If you know all the
words
> to the song, you will know why I now cringe when I hear it!

This song is the gold-diggers anthem, ain't it? I have some video of Epcot's
American Vybe vocal group doing it, and the girl who sings it is built like
a Barbie Doll. She pulls a guy who's a Santa look-alike out of the audience
and puts a santa hat on him and sings to him. I actually think they scoured
the crowd outside of the American Adventure Rotunda where they performed
back then ahead of time to "recruit" a Santa plant for each set.
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 2:33:50 AM

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Doc wrote:
Thank god. Crosby and Sinatra were two of the most over-rated singers
of all

Seeing as you are on such a critic's rampage, I hope you won't mind me
saying your karaoke horn blowin' ain't exactly to die for. I'll do you a
favor and abstain from commenting on the vocal.
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 3:58:32 AM

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"Doc" <docsavage20@Xhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:g1lzd.1392$qf5.511@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Have Yourself A Merry Christmas by the Pretenders. I don't know when this
> was released but I just noticed it this year on our local station that's
> playing holiday music 24/7 through Christmas. Good god, this chick
couldn't
> hit a pitch with a truck, sounds like it was recorded in a karaoke bar.
It's
> so bad it's hilarious.


Welllll.... yea, her pitch is not great. I don't care. I really enjoy the
song. I am happy it was recorded pre autotune where some idiot would have
"fixed" everything and turned it into Celene Dion.

That said, I'm not really a fan of her... I don't like all that many of her
tunes. I think that song is one of her best moments.
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 8:23:30 AM

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Robin Chandler wrote:

> Karen Carpenter sings like a bird, she needed better material and more
> food.

Amen.

--
ha
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 8:26:11 AM

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> Crosby and Sinatra were two of the most over-rated singers of all
> time and that recording deserves none of the popularity it's enjoyed.
> Sinatra's chops were mediocre at best and folded completely by 1955.

Nobody ever had to _tell_ me what a great singer Frank Sinatra was. He reached
his peak in the '50s and early '60s, after which he went into an obvious
decline, his voice losing much of its beauty and control.

No one -- NO ONE -- has ever interpreted popular song as well as Sinatra.

Next you'll be telling us Fred Astaire was an over-rated dancer.

PS: Regardless of what you think of Bing Crosby, he had a profound influence on
the popular songs were sung.
December 27, 2004 1:56:36 PM

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"Joe Sensor" <crabcakes@emagic.net> wrote in message
news:339l5uF3rrq2kU1@individual.net...
> Doc wrote:
> Thank god. Crosby and Sinatra were two of the most over-rated singers
> of all
>
> Seeing as you are on such a critic's rampage, I hope you won't mind me
> saying your karaoke horn blowin' ain't exactly to die for. I'll do you a
> favor and abstain from commenting on the vocal.

Nope, don't mind a bit. What my hobbyist website sounds like doesn't alter
that Crosby and Sinatra were overrated hacks with less than favorable
tendencies as human beings.

:-)
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 7:05:17 PM

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Mike Rivers wrote:

> slinky_silkworm writes:

> > Nobody can sing White Xmas like Bing.

> Ernest Tubb (who recorded it before Bing)

Whatever Ernest sang, nobody could sing it like him. <g>

--
ha
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 10:08:26 PM

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In article <10t03blop0ork63@corp.supernews.com> williams@nwlink.com writes:

> PS: Regardless of what you think of Bing Crosby, he had a profound influence on
> the popular songs were sung.

Not only that, but his money (and interest in being able to record his
live radio shows for later broadcast) went a long way toward bringing
tape recording technology out of the lab and into the studio.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
December 28, 2004 12:44:20 AM

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"William Sommerwerck" <williams@nwlink.com> wrote in message
news:10t03blop0ork63@corp.supernews.com...
..
>
> No one -- NO ONE -- has ever interpreted popular song as well as Sinatra.

Well, that must be it. Now we all know that Sinatra was the pinnacle, the
end-all, be-all of all history when it comes to popular song.

Can you say misguided hyperbole boys and girls?

His fellow Rat-Packer Sammy Davis had more singing talent in his glass eye
than Sinatra ever dreamed of. No doubt you're going to come back with some
quote from Sammy about how "Sinatra taught me everything I know" or some
similar politically motivated statement he might have made, that didn't
actually happen to be true.

>Next you'll be telling us Fred Astaire was an over-rated dancer.

Dunno about that but I think he was overrated as a singer.

Sorry, I've never gotten excited about Sinatra, even in his so-called prime.
Anything after about the mid 50's I find unlistenable. He was the most
slickly packaged singer of his era but far from the most talented. Ray
Eberle, Ed Ames, Dick Haymes, Dino, Billy Eckstine, Jack Jones, Sammy Davis,
Vaughn Monroe, the young Tony Bennett before his pipes turned to leather,
among others were all far better singers. As is always the case, I have no
doubt there were legions of unheralded coulda-beens that never garnered
great fame who were also better. Sinatra had at best a passable timbre
without much power when he was very young and when that was gone, he had
nothing left but mob connections, good marketing, hype and excellent bands
full of musicians he was mostly qualified to serve coffee to, to keep his
name alive.

Well, let me modify that. I do think he had talent as an actor. I enjoy him
far more in movies than as a singer.
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 12:44:21 AM

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>> No one -- NO ONE -- has ever interpreted popular song as well as Sinatra.

> Well, that must be it. Now we all know that Sinatra was the pinnacle,
> the end-all, be-all of all history when it comes to popular song.

> Can you say misguided hyperbole boys and girls?

My opinion is based simply on listening to Sinatra. No one else -- except
perhaps Ella Fitzgerald -- has ever gotten "inside" a lyric the way he did. What
can I say if you don't hear this? It should be "obvious" to anyone. (Shouldn't
it?)


>> Next you'll be telling us Fred Astaire was an over-rated dancer.

> Dunno about that, but I think he was overrated as a singer.

Not by the people who wrote his songs. Despite his having an untrained and
slightly "croaky" voice, they loved the way he delivered them.


> Sorry, I've never gotten excited about Sinatra, even in his so-called prime.
> Anything after about the mid 50's I find unlistenable. He was the most
> slickly packaged singer of his era but far from the most talented. Ray
> Eberle, Ed Ames, Dick Haymes, Dino, Billy Eckstine, Jack Jones, Sammy
> Davis, Vaughn Monroe, the young Tony Bennett before his pipes turned to
leather,

Vaughn Monroe? Robert Goulet's godfather? "Watch as I drop this RCA radio in its
shatterproof case from the top of this ladder..."


> among others were all far better singers. As is always the case, I have no
> doubt there were legions of unheralded coulda-beens that never garnered
> great fame who were also better. Sinatra had at best a passable timbre
> without much power when he was very young and when that was gone,
> he had nothing left but mob connections, good marketing, hype and
> excellent bands full of musicians he was mostly qualified to serve coffee to,
> to keep his name alive.

I think your problem is that you don't like Sinatra as a person, and I can't
blame you for that.


> Well, let me modify that. I do think he had talent as an actor. I enjoy him
> far more in movies than as a singer.

No argument. At his best he was a highly convincing actor.
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 4:21:31 PM

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I think the highlight of that type of singing, is the Nelson Riddle albums,
if Sinatra sounded like a frog,
they would still be great!
Fred Astaire was not a singer, and he could deliver a song! I love Ella for
her pitch, but not as much for her delivery, and then there's Billy Holiday.
Oh yeah, I forgot, no punch-ins allowed!
And then there's Rod Stewart..........lol.
Tom






"William Sommerwerck" <williams@nwlink.com> wrote in message
news:10t12jm59bj2g93@corp.supernews.com...
> >> No one -- NO ONE -- has ever interpreted popular song as well as
Sinatra.
>
> > Well, that must be it. Now we all know that Sinatra was the pinnacle,
> > the end-all, be-all of all history when it comes to popular song.
>
> > Can you say misguided hyperbole boys and girls?
>
> My opinion is based simply on listening to Sinatra. No one else -- except
> perhaps Ella Fitzgerald -- has ever gotten "inside" a lyric the way he
did. What
> can I say if you don't hear this? It should be "obvious" to anyone.
(Shouldn't
> it?)
>
>
> >> Next you'll be telling us Fred Astaire was an over-rated dancer.
>
> > Dunno about that, but I think he was overrated as a singer.
>
> Not by the people who wrote his songs. Despite his having an untrained and
> slightly "croaky" voice, they loved the way he delivered them.
>
>
> > Sorry, I've never gotten excited about Sinatra, even in his so-called
prime.
> > Anything after about the mid 50's I find unlistenable. He was the most
> > slickly packaged singer of his era but far from the most talented. Ray
> > Eberle, Ed Ames, Dick Haymes, Dino, Billy Eckstine, Jack Jones, Sammy
> > Davis, Vaughn Monroe, the young Tony Bennett before his pipes turned to
> leather,
>
> Vaughn Monroe? Robert Goulet's godfather? "Watch as I drop this RCA radio
in its
> shatterproof case from the top of this ladder..."
>
>
> > among others were all far better singers. As is always the case, I have
no
> > doubt there were legions of unheralded coulda-beens that never garnered
> > great fame who were also better. Sinatra had at best a passable timbre
> > without much power when he was very young and when that was gone,
> > he had nothing left but mob connections, good marketing, hype and
> > excellent bands full of musicians he was mostly qualified to serve
coffee to,
> > to keep his name alive.
>
> I think your problem is that you don't like Sinatra as a person, and I
can't
> blame you for that.
>
>
> > Well, let me modify that. I do think he had talent as an actor. I enjoy
him
> > far more in movies than as a singer.
>
> No argument. At his best he was a highly convincing actor.
>
December 28, 2004 6:59:54 PM

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"Tommy B" <mrtomm@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:v5dAd.513$Cc.388@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

> And then there's Rod Stewart..........lol.

Okay, there's someone I prefer Sinatra to. Isn't there some law against
doing what Stewart did to the standards?
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 6:59:55 PM

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Doc wrote:

> Okay, there's someone I prefer Sinatra to. Isn't there some law against
> doing what Stewart did to the standards?
>
>

Nah. As long as they be payin', he be singin'.
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 10:01:45 PM

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I like this one:

Our Unabashed Dictionary defines "Fanny: in the U.S. to be the
hindmost part. In England, however, it's the part most Hynde."
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 4:15:14 AM

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Doc wrote:

> Yeah, Goulet recorded a lot of schlock and I've heard could be a horse's
> ass, but he had a formidable vocal instrument. "If Ever I Would Leave You"
> was a gem. Haven't heard him in a long time, don't know what kind of shape
> his pipes are in these days.

He could not swing his way into a wet paper shopping bag. You seem
oblivious to the implications of phrasing.

--
ha
December 29, 2004 9:10:10 AM

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"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
news:1gpijfs.al2epo1ro5u5fN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
> Doc wrote:
>
> > Yeah, Goulet recorded a lot of schlock and I've heard could be a horse's
> > ass, but he had a formidable vocal instrument.

> He could not swing his way into a wet paper shopping bag.

Whether that's true or not, as a vocalist he was in a class Sinatra couldn't
even dream of aspiring to. As were any of the others I noted.

> You seem
> oblivious to the implications of phrasing.

The "implications" of phrasing? Holy inappropriate word usage Batman! I
assume you mean the technique of phrasing. Or simply "phrasing".

Having played lead trumpet in a number of big bands and having done some
arranging and songwriting, I'm reasonably familiar with concepts such as
swing, phrasing etc.

I've found that when people say "he's got great phrasing" it often means
their vocal chops are shot.

If you think Sinatra was great, knock yerself out and enjoy. I won't be
joining you in your adulation.
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 1:44:02 PM

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On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:44:20 GMT, "Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com>
wrote:

>His fellow Rat-Packer Sammy Davis had more singing talent in his glass eye
>than Sinatra ever dreamed of. <snip>

Agreed.

>Dunno about that but I think he was overrated as a singer. <snip>

Even Astaire said he couldn't sing!

>Sorry, I've never gotten excited about Sinatra, even in his so-called prime.
>Anything after about the mid 50's I find unlistenable. He was the most
>slickly packaged singer of his era but far from the most talented. <snip>

Well, to be fair, his Dorsey days showed he COULD sell a song, as
witnessed by the mobs at the Brooklyn Paramount would attest, but by
'49 or so, he was more interested in screwing Ava Gardner than he was
in singing.

>Ray
>Eberle, Ed Ames, Dick Haymes, Dino, Billy Eckstine, Jack Jones, Sammy Davis,
>Vaughn Monroe, the young Tony Bennett before his pipes turned to leather,
>among others were all far better singers. <snip>

Dick Haymes was probably one of the most underrated male vocalists of
all time. Vaughn Monroe really held his own in the late '40s (he was
EVERYWHERE on radio) but there's only so much you can do with a
baritone in pop music...but a great set of pipes and a superior
talent.

>As is always the case, I have no
>doubt there were legions of unheralded coulda-beens that never garnered
>great fame who were also better. Sinatra had at best a passable timbre
>without much power when he was very young and when that was gone, he had
>nothing left but mob connections, good marketing, hype and excellent bands
>full of musicians he was mostly qualified to serve coffee to, to keep his
>name alive. <snip>

Sinatra always had a weak voice...no power, limited range...Sammy
could sing rings around him in the rat pack days. What he DID have
was 1.) interpretive ability, which someone like a Vaughn Monroe
completely lacked, 2.) a very unusual timbre that emerged making his
voice, as weak as it was, instantly recognizable (as was Crosby's),
and as you said, 3.) Lucky Luciano and his pals. The Feebs under
Hoover tried desperately to indict Sinatra and amassed the biggest FBI
file ever kept on an entertainer http://foia.fbi.gov/sinatra.htm , but
Sinatra wisely had friends in very high places, like JFK and later,
Ronnie RayGun, himself a crook.

You have to look at Sinatra as an entire package, not just as a
vocalist. Public fascination with the mob, the glitter of Vegas and
his self-described "ring-a-ding" attitude all combined to offset his
vocal failings. I have to agree that anything he did after "Come Fly
With Me" in '57 was pretty marginal, altough I must admit I listen to
these albums probably more to hear the likes of Billy May, Nelson
Riddle (a genius with a score), Don Costa and others...those were some
SUPERB charts played by some SUPERB guys, and as well engineered as
any recordings ever have been...thus, propping Sinatra up all the
more.
>
>Well, let me modify that. I do think he had talent as an actor. I enjoy him
>far more in movies than as a singer. <snip>

Like I said, Sinatra was a total package...he could "sorta sing," but
it wasn't the vocal quality, it was the same interpretive abilities
probably brought about by his life's experience that made him a
powerful figure in the mind of the public. It was that same
experience that gave him such powerful credibility as an actor.

dB
December 30, 2004 3:42:20 AM

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"DeserTBoB" <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote in message
news:q6v5t0d5foklf1j9a9395p4efndjcopk8j@4ax.com...

Excellent post, interesting background stuff.

> The movie supposedly didn't play well in the South (hmmmm...those
> pesky red states again!) and also angered many WW II and Korean War
> vets, knowing that Sinatra had dodged the bullet in WW II and had a
> pretty cushy life on the home front...sort of like our current
> president!

Bob Hope apparently conned his way into avoiding a similar label with his
USO touring. His being "too old" was a somewhat weak excuse. I looked into
this a while back. If he had been just one year younger he would have been
legally required to register for the draft. He was a former boxer and avid
golfer, certainly seemed physically fit enough. If he had genuinely wanted
to pull some strings and get in, I imagine he could have. Jimmy Stewart who
was only about 4 years younger than Hope was labeled 4-F and told to hit the
road because of his weight, but said "screw that", gained weight and saw
combat as a bomber pilot. Accounts I've seen indicated he was an excellent
airman and officer. I imagine he was motivated by machismo as much as by
patriotism, not wanting to be remembered as having been too scrawny for
military duty. No doubt it didn't hurt his career in the long run to have
stepped up to the plate like that when he didn't have to.

> The prejudice angle had been played to the hilt a year
> earlier in '57 with "Sayonara" and seemed to play universally well,
> probably because it didn't involve a black player.

Somewhat humorous that though it was about a white woman who had married a
black man, they managed to go through the whole flick without a black face
ever being shown.
Anonymous
December 31, 2004 12:55:28 PM

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"Robin Chandler" <slinky_silkworm@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:silus0ptvcoet1ebnhei25m0j2dts03dm0@4ax.com...

> Whoever told Gloria Estefan she could sing?

Isn't that great at giving bj's either...

> Great band though!

They agree with me...
Anonymous
December 31, 2004 4:07:54 PM

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In article <km9Bd.4273$JC2.3969@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> brassplyer@nospamyahoo.com writes:

> > Whoever told Gloria Estefan she could sing?
>
> Isn't that great at giving bj's either...

And just how do you know this?

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 1, 2005 1:08:38 AM

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"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1104497782k@trad...
>
> In article <km9Bd.4273$JC2.3969@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
brassplyer@nospamyahoo.com writes:
>
> > > Whoever told Gloria Estefan she could sing?
> >
> > Isn't that great at giving bj's either...
>
> And just how do you know this?

Um, that of course being the point of the joke...

Actually I think she has a nice voice. Not my absolute favorite but on some
things she really shines. One of my complaints is that while she's done some
great tunes, she's also done a number of weaker tunes with these wandering,
scalar, painfully uninspired melodies.
Anonymous
January 1, 2005 1:08:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 22:08:38 GMT, "HiC" <brassplyer@nospamyahoo.com>
wrote:

>Actually I think she has a nice voice. Not my absolute favorite but on some
>things she really shines. One of my complaints is that while she's done some
>great tunes, she's also done a number of weaker tunes with these wandering,
>scalar, painfully uninspired melodies. <snip>

Eh....J-Lo's got a bigger ass, though.

dB
!