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Guitar: I want to tune the 6th string from standard e to l..

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Anonymous
December 27, 2004 9:45:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I want to tune the 6th string from standard E to low Bb tuning in
6string guitar
therefore, the pickup which i have to buy must pick up from e to low
Bb frequency(maybe 40~80hz,isn't it?)
what pickup or guitar or something is fit to me?
and the pickup or guitar have good sound and no problem?


as far as i am concerned, a new pickup (which have low cut switch
selector(according to the low down tuning) might be made in the
future...
December 27, 2004 1:09:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

bluesjeon wrote:

> I want to tune the 6th string from standard E to low Bb tuning in
> 6string guitar
> therefore, the pickup which i have to buy must pick up from e to low
> Bb frequency(maybe 40~80hz,isn't it?)
> what pickup or guitar or something is fit to me?
> and the pickup or guitar have good sound and no problem?
>
>
> as far as i am concerned, a new pickup (which have low cut switch
> selector(according to the low down tuning) might be made in the
> future...


Whatever pickup you already have will be fine.
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 6:51:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"bluesjeon" <bluesjeon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8b8dc964.0412270645.3c73e68b@posting.google.com...
> I want to tune the 6th string from standard E to low Bb tuning in
> 6string guitar
> therefore, the pickup which i have to buy must pick up from e to low
> Bb frequency(maybe 40~80hz,isn't it?)
> what pickup or guitar or something is fit to me?
> and the pickup or guitar have good sound and no problem?
>
>
> as far as i am concerned, a new pickup (which have low cut switch
> selector(according to the low down tuning) might be made in the
> future..

The pickup isn't the problem, it will be the guitar. Most standard scale
length guitars B is just too low for the string tension, you need a baritone
guitar.

Lance McCollum.
Related resources
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 7:05:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

bluesjeon wrote:

> I want to tune the 6th string from standard E to low Bb tuning in
> 6string guitar
> therefore, the pickup which i have to buy must pick up from e to low
> Bb frequency(maybe 40~80hz,isn't it?)
> what pickup or guitar or something is fit to me?
> and the pickup or guitar have good sound and no problem?

Have you tried that yet? You'll find that:

1. You'll need a really fat string to offer something other than mush to
your fingers, not to mention avoiding significant string-to-fret rattle.
I use a .056 on the bottom of my electric, and that's nowhere near fat
enough for low Bb.

2. That fat string will require that you alter the nut and maybe the
saddle, too, to accomodate it, and readjust the action of the guitar.

> as far as i am concerned, a new pickup (which have low cut switch
> selector(according to the low down tuning) might be made in the
> future...

Any decent pickup will work.

--
ha
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 8:58:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< you need a baritone
guitar. >>



Or a seven string guitar.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 11:49:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:51:57 GMT, "McCollum"
<mccollum@mccollumguitars.com> wrote:

>
>"bluesjeon" <bluesjeon@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:8b8dc964.0412270645.3c73e68b@posting.google.com...
>> I want to tune the 6th string from standard E to low Bb tuning in
>> 6string guitar
>> therefore, the pickup which i have to buy must pick up from e to low
>> Bb frequency(maybe 40~80hz,isn't it?)
>> what pickup or guitar or something is fit to me?
>> and the pickup or guitar have good sound and no problem?
>>
>>
>> as far as i am concerned, a new pickup (which have low cut switch
>> selector(according to the low down tuning) might be made in the
>> future..
>
>The pickup isn't the problem, it will be the guitar. Most standard scale
>length guitars B is just too low for the string tension, you need a baritone
>guitar.
>
>Lance McCollum.

It ought to work OK if he uses a Fender-scale guitar and puts a
heavier guage on the low E, like a .58 or so.

Al
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 12:02:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"bluesjeon" <bluesjeon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8b8dc964.0412270645.3c73e68b@posting.google.com...
> I want to tune the 6th string from standard E to low Bb tuning in
> 6string guitar


Sorry friend , but no way . There are 8 string electrics but that's a
whole new game with a huge learning curve.
--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 12:46:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

bluesjeon wrote:
> I want to tune the 6th string from standard E to low Bb
> tuning in 6string guitar

If the rest of the guitar is tuned to standard 'E',
then doesn't that make the Bb a 'flatted fifth' ?
i.e. the 'evil' note (tri-tone)
Just curious what style of music you might be playing,
Black Sabbath, Goth Rock, etc. ?

RD
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 1:53:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:02:20 GMT, "Edward Bridge"
<edbridge@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Sorry friend , but no way . There are 8 string electrics but that's a
>whole new game with a huge learning curve.

Those who use 7string guitars say the learning curve is not all that
great, esp. if the 7th string is tuned to A -- all the fingerings from
the regular A string can be easily relocated.

>--
>Peace,
>Ed Bridge
>Brooklyn N.Y.
>http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
>
>

Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 2:13:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Willie K.Yee, M.D. wrote:

> Those who use 7string guitars say the learning curve is not all that
> great, esp. if the 7th string is tuned to A -- all the fingerings
from
> the regular A string can be easily relocated.

Seems to me that if you're adding a low 7th string on a guitar, you'd
want it tuned to B natural. That way it's consistent with the fourth
intervals that make up (most of) guitar standard tuning. You may not
have an immediate grasp of the *notes* on the new string, but the
intervals will feel right.

For example, the open 7th string will give you the 5th of an E chord
(similar to how the open 6th string is the 5th of an A chord), and you
can get an alternating bass on a G chord by moving between 6th
string/3rd fret and 7th string/3rd fret.

Dave
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 2:43:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"RD Jones" <annonn@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1104212782.877257.246380@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> bluesjeon wrote:
> > I want to tune the 6th string from standard E to low Bb
> > tuning in 6string guitar
>
> If the rest of the guitar is tuned to standard 'E',
> then doesn't that make the Bb a 'flatted fifth' ?
> i.e. the 'evil' note (tri-tone)

I think you are missing the point. he probably wants to tune the guitar to
an open Bb CHORD, or some tuning related to a Bb tonic, not only the bass
string to Bb.

Julian
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 6:23:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Willie K.Yee, M.D." <wkyee@bestweb.netttttttttttttttt> wrote in message
news:41d0922f.67878502@nntp.bestweb.net...
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:02:20 GMT, "Edward Bridge"
> <edbridge@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Sorry friend , but no way . There are 8 string electrics but that's a
> >whole new game with a huge learning curve.
>
> Those who use 7string guitars say the learning curve is not all that
> great, esp. if the 7th string is tuned to A -- all the fingerings from
> the regular A string can be easily relocated.


I agree, on my eight string , I have the 7th =D and 8th = A for the same
reasons as you said. The hard part for me is my right hand and the
spacing of the strings.
Questions: those on a 7 string steel guitar , can they play Bb ? My "A" on
the 8 th string sounds a littel too "relax."

--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 10:46:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< Seems to me that if you're adding a low 7th string on a guitar, you'd
want it tuned to B natural. >>



I bet he's tuned down a half step, the 'Hendrix tuning'.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 2:18:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 27 Dec 2004 06:45:51 -0800, bluesjeon@gmail.com (bluesjeon) wrote:

>I want to tune the 6th string from standard E to low Bb tuning in
>6string guitar
>therefore, the pickup which i have to buy must pick up from e to low
>Bb frequency(maybe 40~80hz,isn't it?)
>what pickup or guitar or something is fit to me?
>and the pickup or guitar have good sound and no problem?
>
>
>as far as i am concerned, a new pickup (which have low cut switch
>selector(according to the low down tuning) might be made in the
>future...


Your present pickup will cope fine. The guitar probably won't.
Have you tried?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 4:41:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ucp1t0da770ge6mrtuma9oealsrtsjplqu@4ax.com> playonAT@comcast.net writes:

> >The pickup isn't the problem, it will be the guitar. Most standard scale
> >length guitars B is just too low for the string tension, you need a baritone
> >guitar.

> It ought to work OK if he uses a Fender-scale guitar and puts a
> heavier guage on the low E, like a .58 or so.

I have an acoustic 12-string guitar that I have tuned down so that the
E strings are B. I think I'm using a 0.069" string for the low string.
It's a little floppy but matches the rest of the strings pretty well
(which are pretty much medium-light standard gages moved over one
string).

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 4:41:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1104217995.509313.269500@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> davebro@sbcglobal.net writes:

> Seems to me that if you're adding a low 7th string on a guitar, you'd
> want it tuned to B natural. That way it's consistent with the fourth
> intervals that make up (most of) guitar standard tuning.

> For example, the open 7th string will give you the 5th of an E chord
> (similar to how the open 6th string is the 5th of an A chord), and you
> can get an alternating bass on a G chord by moving between 6th
> string/3rd fret and 7th string/3rd fret.

Most people who play "extra string" guitars are playing jazz, where
they play in the flat keys pretty often. If you're playing in E-flat
or B-flat, it's probably nice to have an open bass string you can use
when you have your hand up the neck. I knew someone who had a harp
guitar with about six "down there" strings that didn't even have a
fretboard under them. He would tune them to be convenient bass notes
for the key in which he was playing.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 1:19:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" wrote:
> Most people who play "extra string" guitars are playing jazz, where
> they play in the flat keys pretty often. If you're playing in E-flat
> or B-flat

And there are the kids out there today who are playing Korn, etc.. with no
idea of what flats are (not all of them). I think I remember teaching
someone a Korn song with the 7th string B tuned to Bb. (Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb,
Bb, Eb). I think some of the bands are tuning down to C now. Pretty soon
we'll be taking the strings off of the guitar and banging the pickups for
sound.....

--litepipe
December 29, 2004 3:31:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Here's a whacked out tuning that is totally conventional.

Place the hi E string on the low E string tune to the same hi E.
Place the B string on the A string..tune to A
Place the G string on the D string tune to D
PLace the D string on the G srting tune to G
PLace the A string on the B String tune to B
Place the low E string on the Hi E tune to E

It requires some minor filing on an acoustic bridge to get the strings
to fit.
It requires no new knowledge to play chords, the same finger stops
exists, except
now you have different inversions on chords. Pretty wild.
Dean
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 4:15:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

playon <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:51:57 GMT, "McCollum"
> <mccollum@mccollumguitars.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"bluesjeon" <bluesjeon@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:8b8dc964.0412270645.3c73e68b@posting.google.com...
> >> I want to tune the 6th string from standard E to low Bb tuning in
> >> 6string guitar
> >> therefore, the pickup which i have to buy must pick up from e to low
> >> Bb frequency(maybe 40~80hz,isn't it?)
> >> what pickup or guitar or something is fit to me?
> >> and the pickup or guitar have good sound and no problem?
> >>
> >>
> >> as far as i am concerned, a new pickup (which have low cut switch
> >> selector(according to the low down tuning) might be made in the
> >> future..
> >
> >The pickup isn't the problem, it will be the guitar. Most standard scale
> >length guitars B is just too low for the string tension, you need a baritone
> >guitar.
> >
> >Lance McCollum.
>
> It ought to work OK if he uses a Fender-scale guitar and puts a
> heavier guage on the low E, like a .58 or so.

My Ibanez Musician has a .56 on the bottom; another couple thousandths
wouldn't put enough meat on that string to get down to Bb usefully. Odds
might be good that by the time the string is fat enough to offer
sufficient physical resistance not to flop around, its
thickness-to-chord length ratio will be suboptimal for useful tone
generation.

--
ha
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 4:15:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 01:15:02 GMT, walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich)
wrote:

>playon <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:51:57 GMT, "McCollum"
>> <mccollum@mccollumguitars.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"bluesjeon" <bluesjeon@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:8b8dc964.0412270645.3c73e68b@posting.google.com...
>> >> I want to tune the 6th string from standard E to low Bb tuning in
>> >> 6string guitar
>> >> therefore, the pickup which i have to buy must pick up from e to low
>> >> Bb frequency(maybe 40~80hz,isn't it?)
>> >> what pickup or guitar or something is fit to me?
>> >> and the pickup or guitar have good sound and no problem?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> as far as i am concerned, a new pickup (which have low cut switch
>> >> selector(according to the low down tuning) might be made in the
>> >> future..
>> >
>> >The pickup isn't the problem, it will be the guitar. Most standard scale
>> >length guitars B is just too low for the string tension, you need a baritone
>> >guitar.
>> >
>> >Lance McCollum.
>>
>> It ought to work OK if he uses a Fender-scale guitar and puts a
>> heavier guage on the low E, like a .58 or so.
>
>My Ibanez Musician has a .56 on the bottom; another couple thousandths
>wouldn't put enough meat on that string to get down to Bb usefully. Odds
>might be good that by the time the string is fat enough to offer
>sufficient physical resistance not to flop around, its
>thickness-to-chord length ratio will be suboptimal for useful tone
>generation.

Well, here in the home of grunge, guys were tuning their Les Pauls
down to C, and they weren't using bass strings on them. It works if
you set the guitar up right, and use a very light touch.

Al
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 10:06:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< I think some of the bands are tuning down to C now. >>



That was Leadbelly's tuning.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 2:16:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'd be concerned about the effect of such a changeover on the guitar over
time. Such things will throw even a nice neck out and there goes the
guitar.

Much better to buy the right guitar. A 7 string isn't that expensive and it
already goes to B.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
news:1gpg083.1ackux7nr0fgmN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
> bluesjeon wrote:
>
> > I want to tune the 6th string from standard E to low Bb tuning in
> > 6string guitar
> > therefore, the pickup which i have to buy must pick up from e to low
> > Bb frequency(maybe 40~80hz,isn't it?)
> > what pickup or guitar or something is fit to me?
> > and the pickup or guitar have good sound and no problem?
>
> Have you tried that yet? You'll find that:
>
> 1. You'll need a really fat string to offer something other than mush to
> your fingers, not to mention avoiding significant string-to-fret rattle.
> I use a .056 on the bottom of my electric, and that's nowhere near fat
> enough for low Bb.
>
> 2. That fat string will require that you alter the nut and maybe the
> saddle, too, to accomodate it, and readjust the action of the guitar.
>
> > as far as i am concerned, a new pickup (which have low cut switch
> > selector(according to the low down tuning) might be made in the
> > future...
>
> Any decent pickup will work.
>
> --
> ha
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 2:18:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Which is great if you only have a bass and drums playing with you. It's a
bare on a rock piano player! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"ScotFraser" <scotfraser@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041228024644.06040.00001646@mb-m19.aol.com...
> << Seems to me that if you're adding a low 7th string on a guitar, you'd
> want it tuned to B natural. >>


>
> I bet he's tuned down a half step, the 'Hendrix tuning'.
>
> Scott Fraser
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 2:20:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Personally tuning down seems to blow the natural resonance of a guitar and
while, if you're writing a song for that particular tuning it may work out,
it's not really the best thing to do. Ever watch really nice meters on a
detuned guitar track? They go all over the place at the wrong times with
odd order harmonics that drive meters mad.

But what do I know?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

<litepipe@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:B8ednWVyHvfTv0_cRVn-3g@adelphia.com...
>
> "Mike Rivers" wrote:
> > Most people who play "extra string" guitars are playing jazz, where
> > they play in the flat keys pretty often. If you're playing in E-flat
> > or B-flat
>
> And there are the kids out there today who are playing Korn, etc.. with
no
> idea of what flats are (not all of them). I think I remember teaching
> someone a Korn song with the 7th string B tuned to Bb. (Bb, Eb, Ab, Db,
Gb,
> Bb, Eb). I think some of the bands are tuning down to C now. Pretty soon
> we'll be taking the strings off of the guitar and banging the pickups for
> sound.....
>
> --litepipe
>
>
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 4:59:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 29 Dec 2004 07:06:41 GMT, scotfraser@aol.com (ScotFraser) wrote:

><< I think some of the bands are tuning down to C now. >>


>
>That was Leadbelly's tuning.
>
>Scott Fraser

Yeah but that's normal for a 12-string guitar... a proper 12 string
has a longer scale than a regular guitar (27") and even with a normal
scale it is standard to tune a 12 string down to C or C# because of
the increased string tension from the added 6 strings. A lot of
people don't know this and that's why you see a lot of old 12 strings
with warped necks & other problems.

AL
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 5:02:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:20:56 -0500, "Roger W. Norman"
<rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:

>Personally tuning down seems to blow the natural resonance of a guitar

I strongly disagree -- on acoustic guitars, many sound more resonant
with lowered tunings. With electrics it doesn't really matter, it's
whatever the amp can take.

Remember that guitar scale lenght evolved from older instruments that
used gut strings. Steel strings are more capable of holding different
tensions.

and
>while, if you're writing a song for that particular tuning it may work out,
>it's not really the best thing to do. Ever watch really nice meters on a
>detuned guitar track? They go all over the place at the wrong times with
>odd order harmonics that drive meters mad.

Who cares about the meters... it's the music we are after.

Al
Anonymous
December 30, 2004 12:46:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <uLGdnRY9ucU7RU_cRVn-tg@rcn.net> rnorman@starpower.net writes:

> Personally tuning down seems to blow the natural resonance of a guitar

This particular guitar is just a little on the large-bodied side, so
it can take the lower tuning just fine. Leadbelly played a fairly
small bodied Stella 12 string, and I guess he just tuned it down to
save the guitar and match his voice.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
December 30, 2004 2:12:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 29 Dec 2004 21:46:01 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

>
>In article <uLGdnRY9ucU7RU_cRVn-tg@rcn.net> rnorman@starpower.net writes:
>
>> Personally tuning down seems to blow the natural resonance of a guitar
>
>This particular guitar is just a little on the large-bodied side, so
>it can take the lower tuning just fine. Leadbelly played a fairly
>small bodied Stella 12 string, and I guess he just tuned it down to
>save the guitar and match his voice.

His Stella 12 string had a long 27" scale and was meant to be tuned
low, the scale lenght has much more to do with it than the size of the
box.

Al
!