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Opinions on these personal monitor mixing systems?

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Anonymous
a b C Monitor
December 27, 2004 5:22:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Environment is live band with 8 musicians. Mixing console has 4 pre-fader
Aux Sends which are currently used to feed a 4 in/8 out headphone amplifier.
Each person has a Shure body pack with which to control the volume to their
own in-ear monitors. The end goal is to have each of the 8 musicians be able
to create their own personal mixes of the 4 Aux Sends from the board.

The first thing I found when researching this was there appears to be very
few complete systems for this purpose. I was able to find four and was
hoping that someone had some experience with one or more of them. All of
these support at least 4 inputs and output to up to 8 personal mixers.

1.) Furman HDS-6 and HR-6 system
http://www.furmansound.com/pdfdata/HDS-6-HR-6.pdf
I like this system because the HDS-6 and each of the HR-6 personal mixers
connect using standard CAT5 network cable, either daisy-chained or by using
a standard Ethernet patch panel for hub/spoke topology. Downside is no EQ or
limiting at all on the personal mixers. I have some Furman power
conditioning units that work OK but have never used anything else by them.
Have a 16 input version as well that is similar but includes EQ and
limiting, as well as a closed-circuit communication channel to the console
and to each of the personal mixers, which none of the other systems have.

2.) Rolls HM series system
Discontinued product by Rolls but still available online. Review at Harmony
Central below:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Events/WNAMM00/Rolls/HM-...
Uses standard DB25 cables to connect the HM58/HM59 personal mixers to the
central HM57/HM60 unit. Not as convenient as using network cables but
because they are not proprietary it's not that big of a deal. The HM58 and
HM59 personal mixers both have EQ and limiting features which is nice. Have
never used any Rolls/Bellari products but have heard mixed reviews about
their stuff.

3.) Aviom Distributed Audio Networks Personal Monitoring System
http://www.aviom.com/products.html#A-16
Similar to the Furman in that the units interconnect with standard network
cabling, but supports up to 16 inputs and personal mixers (Furman makes a 16
channel version of the one above as well, it's just really more than we
need). Digital interface where you select the input source to modify with a
toggle button and then set the values instead of using knobs and sliders.
Includes EQ and limiting features. I am not at all familiar with this
company.

4.) Hear Technologies Hear Back System
http://www.heartechnologies.com/hb/hearbacksystem.htm
Uses proprietary DB25 to 8 1/4 cable jacks to connect the console to the
central unit, which I do not like at all. Outside of that seems comparable
to the 16 channel Furman and Aviom systems. Not at all familiar with this
company either.

-Ben
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
December 27, 2004 11:22:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have used the Furman HDS6 system you mention. Didn't like it too much. It
lacked headroom and just sounded sort of strained overall. I can't even
imagine using this onstage. I was going to buy a Mytek Private Q system but
never could find one in stock and I needed to do something fast and couldn't
wait. While I was frantically trying to find one in stock somewhere, I
happened to have a chance to audition the Furman HDS 16 system. It does has
considerably more gain structure/headroom than the smaller Furman system and
has a host of other really useful features like talkback and FX
sends/returns on the individual remote mixers. It's not quite as expensive
as the Mytek, but a helluva lot more expensive than the others you are
mentioning. It would work nicely for a live situation however.

Doug Joyce
Animix Productions
Durango, CO
"Ben Hanson" <transparency_76@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41d06549$1@mustang.speedfactory.net...
> Environment is live band with 8 musicians. Mixing console has 4 pre-fader
> Aux Sends which are currently used to feed a 4 in/8 out headphone
amplifier.
> Each person has a Shure body pack with which to control the volume to
their
> own in-ear monitors. The end goal is to have each of the 8 musicians be
able
> to create their own personal mixes of the 4 Aux Sends from the board.
>
> The first thing I found when researching this was there appears to be very
> few complete systems for this purpose. I was able to find four and was
> hoping that someone had some experience with one or more of them. All of
> these support at least 4 inputs and output to up to 8 personal mixers.
>
> 1.) Furman HDS-6 and HR-6 system
> http://www.furmansound.com/pdfdata/HDS-6-HR-6.pdf
> I like this system because the HDS-6 and each of the HR-6 personal mixers
> connect using standard CAT5 network cable, either daisy-chained or by
using
> a standard Ethernet patch panel for hub/spoke topology. Downside is no EQ
or
> limiting at all on the personal mixers. I have some Furman power
> conditioning units that work OK but have never used anything else by them.
> Have a 16 input version as well that is similar but includes EQ and
> limiting, as well as a closed-circuit communication channel to the console
> and to each of the personal mixers, which none of the other systems have.
>
> 2.) Rolls HM series system
> Discontinued product by Rolls but still available online. Review at
Harmony
> Central below:
> http://www.harmony-central.com/Events/WNAMM00/Rolls/HM-...
> Uses standard DB25 cables to connect the HM58/HM59 personal mixers to the
> central HM57/HM60 unit. Not as convenient as using network cables but
> because they are not proprietary it's not that big of a deal. The HM58 and
> HM59 personal mixers both have EQ and limiting features which is nice.
Have
> never used any Rolls/Bellari products but have heard mixed reviews about
> their stuff.
>
> 3.) Aviom Distributed Audio Networks Personal Monitoring System
> http://www.aviom.com/products.html#A-16
> Similar to the Furman in that the units interconnect with standard network
> cabling, but supports up to 16 inputs and personal mixers (Furman makes a
16
> channel version of the one above as well, it's just really more than we
> need). Digital interface where you select the input source to modify with
a
> toggle button and then set the values instead of using knobs and sliders.
> Includes EQ and limiting features. I am not at all familiar with this
> company.
>
> 4.) Hear Technologies Hear Back System
> http://www.heartechnologies.com/hb/hearbacksystem.htm
> Uses proprietary DB25 to 8 1/4 cable jacks to connect the console to the
> central unit, which I do not like at all. Outside of that seems comparable
> to the 16 channel Furman and Aviom systems. Not at all familiar with this
> company either.
>
> -Ben
>
>
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
December 28, 2004 3:16:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <41d06549$1@mustang.speedfactory.net>, transparency_76
@hotmail.com says...
>
> 1.) Furman HDS-6 and HR-6 system

I have this. Decent enough for the cost, but CAT-5 is not very
flexible, and there's very little headroom in this thing, and there's no
way to pan the mono channels - and no master level.

The 16-channel version looks interesting, and addresses the headroom and
panning issues, but I think it might be a bit intimidating for a
musician, and the cable length and lack of star-network topology might
be limiting. And I can't believe they put the audio connectors on the
front...


--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?
Related resources
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
December 28, 2004 7:58:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< I have used the Furman HDS6 system you mention. Didn't like it too much. It
lacked headroom and just sounded sort of strained overall. I can't even
imagine using this onstage. >>



The Kronos Quartet has used this system (which I've slightly modified) for
several hundred concerts over the last few years. It works, & has saved
countless hours of sound check frustration & resulted in major improvements in
stage sound quality by virtue of losing the wedges on stage. It's also working
in my studio well. Only disadvantage I run across is not enough inputs, so I'll
eventually have to swap it out for one of the other units.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
December 28, 2004 10:46:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hey Jay. From what I am reading, both the smaller and the bigger Furman
units can be set up in a star/hub-spoke topology if you get an Ethernet
punchdown block. You could get one for the blue cables (audio data) and
another to terminate the grey cables (+/- 22 V power).

One thing almost everyone has mentinoed is the headroom issue. Wish I had
one to test before we bought it. I think it will be plenty loud enough
because we have zero stage volume at all (even the guitar amps are connected
direct), and we are all standing behind the mains.

I really, really wish it had the limiting and the EQ though. I just don't
know that price-wise we can swing the bigger unit right now...

-Ben

"Jay Levitt" <jay+news@jay.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c3ab628d3426e7c98985b@news-east.giganews.com...
> In article <41d06549$1@mustang.speedfactory.net>, transparency_76
> @hotmail.com says...
> >
> > 1.) Furman HDS-6 and HR-6 system
>
> I have this. Decent enough for the cost, but CAT-5 is not very
> flexible, and there's very little headroom in this thing, and there's no
> way to pan the mono channels - and no master level.
>
> The 16-channel version looks interesting, and addresses the headroom and
> panning issues, but I think it might be a bit intimidating for a
> musician, and the cable length and lack of star-network topology might
> be limiting. And I can't believe they put the audio connectors on the
> front...
>
>
> --
> Jay Levitt |
> Wellesley, MA | Hi!
> Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
> http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
December 28, 2004 12:44:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <41d06549$1@mustang.speedfactory.net>,
"Ben Hanson" <transparency_76@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Environment is live band with 8 musicians. Mixing console has 4 pre-fader
> Aux Sends which are currently used to feed a 4 in/8 out headphone amplifier.
> Each person has a Shure body pack with which to control the volume to their
> own in-ear monitors. The end goal is to have each of the 8 musicians be able
> to create their own personal mixes of the 4 Aux Sends from the board.
>
> The first thing I found when researching this was there appears to be very
> few complete systems for this purpose. I was able to find four and was
> hoping that someone had some experience with one or more of them. All of
> these support at least 4 inputs and output to up to 8 personal mixers.

> 3.) Aviom Distributed Audio Networks Personal Monitoring System
> http://www.aviom.com/products.html#A-16
> Similar to the Furman in that the units interconnect with standard network
> cabling, but supports up to 16 inputs and personal mixers (Furman makes a 16
> channel version of the one above as well, it's just really more than we
> need). Digital interface where you select the input source to modify with a
> toggle button and then set the values instead of using knobs and sliders.
> Includes EQ and limiting features. I am not at all familiar with this
> company.

I specify the Aviom in sound systems for churches, and it has held up
very well. You don't mention how many inputs you use (total) with your
band. Given that the Aviom has 16 inputs, you might want to take
individual channels, in addition or as a replacement for some of the aux
mixes. That should provide some freedom (for you) from tweeking aux
mixes during sound check or performance.

Aviom, the company, is very R&D oriented, and supports their products
through the rep network and directly.

I expect them to be around for the long haul.

And FWIW, I would rather push digital audio around the stage on Cat 5,
than using multipair and DB25 connectors.
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
December 28, 2004 4:05:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

We use 13 channels on the mixing console, and 4 Auxes. So with 8 people in
the band, we do have to each pair up on the Aux Sends, which is a bit of a
drag, but as long as you pair peopl eup intelligently (not the drums and the
violin for example) it seems to work out OK. I would love to get the 16
channel one, come out fo the Insert jacks on each mixer channel as direct
outs to the inputs of the monitoring system and do it that way, but we are
feeding our Delta 1010 recording systems with the Insert jacks that way. I
suppose I could split the signal with a Y cable...

The main thing is just that the 16 channel versions are a lot more money
than we were wanting to spend right now I think, but I am checking on prices
around town as I speak...

-Ben

"Hannibul Artese" <waxurcarot@normendy.com> wrote in message
news:waxurcarot-85C24F.09440028122004@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article <41d06549$1@mustang.speedfactory.net>,
> "Ben Hanson" <transparency_76@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Environment is live band with 8 musicians. Mixing console has 4
pre-fader
> > Aux Sends which are currently used to feed a 4 in/8 out headphone
amplifier.
> > Each person has a Shure body pack with which to control the volume to
their
> > own in-ear monitors. The end goal is to have each of the 8 musicians be
able
> > to create their own personal mixes of the 4 Aux Sends from the board.
> >
> > The first thing I found when researching this was there appears to be
very
> > few complete systems for this purpose. I was able to find four and was
> > hoping that someone had some experience with one or more of them. All of
> > these support at least 4 inputs and output to up to 8 personal mixers.
>
> > 3.) Aviom Distributed Audio Networks Personal Monitoring System
> > http://www.aviom.com/products.html#A-16
> > Similar to the Furman in that the units interconnect with standard
network
> > cabling, but supports up to 16 inputs and personal mixers (Furman makes
a 16
> > channel version of the one above as well, it's just really more than we
> > need). Digital interface where you select the input source to modify
with a
> > toggle button and then set the values instead of using knobs and
sliders.
> > Includes EQ and limiting features. I am not at all familiar with this
> > company.
>
> I specify the Aviom in sound systems for churches, and it has held up
> very well. You don't mention how many inputs you use (total) with your
> band. Given that the Aviom has 16 inputs, you might want to take
> individual channels, in addition or as a replacement for some of the aux
> mixes. That should provide some freedom (for you) from tweeking aux
> mixes during sound check or performance.
>
> Aviom, the company, is very R&D oriented, and supports their products
> through the rep network and directly.
>
> I expect them to be around for the long haul.
>
> And FWIW, I would rather push digital audio around the stage on Cat 5,
> than using multipair and DB25 connectors.
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
December 29, 2004 10:01:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< From what I am reading, both the smaller and the bigger Furman
units can be set up in a star/hub-spoke topology if you get an Ethernet
punchdown block. You could get one for the blue cables (audio data) and
another to terminate the grey cables (+/- 22 V power). >>



Furman makes a breakout box for the dual Cat5 wiring. I think it's 1 in by 6
out.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
December 29, 2004 11:44:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I saw those. But in one of those engineering decisions the bigger picture
got lost because the hub supports up to 8 remote units...why they would not
have made a 1x8 fully bridged box instead of a 1x5 I do not know.

"ScotFraser" <scotfraser@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041229020135.06367.00001671@mb-m26.aol.com...
> << From what I am reading, both the smaller and the bigger Furman
> units can be set up in a star/hub-spoke topology if you get an Ethernet
> punchdown block. You could get one for the blue cables (audio data) and
> another to terminate the grey cables (+/- 22 V power). >>


>
> Furman makes a breakout box for the dual Cat5 wiring. I think it's 1 in by
6
> out.
>
> Scott Fraser
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
January 2, 2005 11:04:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< I saw those. But in one of those engineering decisions the bigger picture
got lost because the hub supports up to 8 remote units...why they would not
have made a 1x8 fully bridged box instead of a 1x5 I do not know. >>



Science can't explain it!


Scott Fraser
January 3, 2005 5:17:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

The Shure Auxpander is a 8X8 matrix mixer made specifically for this
purpose... I don't have one, but I'm seriously looking at getting one.
January 3, 2005 5:21:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Vinny wrote:
> The Shure Auxpander is a 8X8 matrix mixer made specifically for this
> purpose... I don't have one, but I'm seriously looking at getting one.
>
>
>
And I'm pretty sure all the Shure in-ear body packs have built-in
limiting - We use the PSM400 and the bottom end PSM200 (wireless) and
they both have it.
!