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phantom power?? mic preamp??

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Anonymous
December 28, 2004 9:41:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ok. I've been reading posts here and am confused by xlr and 1/4" jacks.The
only xlr microphones I was familiar with was a couple of old electovoice
studio mics and worked fine in an old compatible PA system.When we upgraded
back in the eighties eveyting wanted 1/4" jacks. These were low impedance
microphones and needed line transformers to boost the power for these newer
amplifiers. All our high impedence mics with 1/4" jacks worked fine.
Most condenser mics require phantom power.Does a mic preamp supply
phantom power? My recording unit wants 1/4" jacks. Would xlr to 1/4" line
transformer suffice?
I stopped in at Long & McQuade and if I could purchase a couple of those md
421's listing for $499.00 Can. I wouldn't be asking these questions. I am
not sure that I can get enough gain on my mt-400 to even satisfy the 200 ohm
impedence rating of even these.
I am recording a choir accompanied by a keyboard, piano, 6 & 12 string
guitars and bass track added later. I have two cheap dynamics and would like
to add a large diaphram condenser such as marshall 770, apex 430 or oktava
319 in a decca tree config.Can this be done with reasonable results for
around $200.00.
December 28, 2004 12:51:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jake Kalyta wrote:

> Ok. I've been reading posts here and am confused by xlr and 1/4" jacks.The
> only xlr microphones I was familiar with was a couple of old electovoice
> studio mics and worked fine in an old compatible PA system.When we
> upgraded back in the eighties eveyting wanted 1/4" jacks. These were low
> impedance microphones and needed line transformers to boost the power for
> these newer amplifiers. All our high impedence mics with 1/4" jacks worked
> fine.

That might not have really been much of an upgrade. There were a lot of
those PA "heads" around in the 80s (and 70s & 60s). Sometime in the 80s
you started seeing both XLR & HiZ 1/4" inputs. While not truly "Pro"
units, they got the job done. Many are still in service, like my PV
XR-400b, which still sees regular use.


> Most condenser mics require phantom power.Does a mic preamp supply
> phantom power?

Many condenser mics require phantom power, and most decent ones do.
Phantom usually comes from the preamp (or the built-in preamp on the mixer
channel), but there are stand alone power units if the preamp doesn't have
phantom, or doesn't provide enough voltage or current.


> My recording unit wants 1/4" jacks. Would xlr to 1/4" line
> transformer suffice?

Depends on the recorder. You need to check the manual. Some cassette
decks & older reel-to-reel units have 1/4" mic inputs, but my guess is
you're looking at 1/4" TRS line inputs. If that's the case, you need a
preamp between the mics & recorder.


> I stopped in at Long & McQuade and if I could purchase a couple of those
> md 421's listing for $499.00 Can. I wouldn't be asking these questions.


Markertek has them for $319. Full Compass is probably a little cheaper.
They're nice mics, but I'm not sure how you think they would be the answer
to all your questions.

> I am not sure that I can get enough gain on my mt-400 to even satisfy the
> 200 ohm impedence rating of even these.

I'm not sure what a mt-400 is. Gain & mic impedence aren't directly
related.


> I am recording a choir accompanied by a keyboard, piano, 6 & 12 string
> guitars and bass track added later. I have two cheap dynamics and would
> like to add a large diaphram condenser such as marshall 770, apex 430 or
> oktava 319 in a decca tree config.Can this be done with reasonable results
> for around $200.00.

Can what be done for around $200? Recording a choir, keys, guitars & bass?
Probably. Buying a decent large diaphragm condenser? Probably not.
Getting a good recording od a choir & varoius instruments with two cheap
dynamics & a cheap large condenser on a Decca tree? Maybe, but it wouldn't
be my preferred approach.

Good luck. It might help if you could clarify your questions just a bit.
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 3:19:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Say hi to agent 99 for me. But, back to my question. First though a little
clarification. This recording is strictly a hobby and the recording is for
posterity. Prior to my joining the group the recording was done on your
regular ghetto blaster with internal electret mic. I borrowed a tape, put on
headphones and thought I'd give it a listen. Ouch!!!!! It sounded like
someone recording heavy machinery at work. There was also some voices in the
background but not distinguishable. so, I brought in my Yamaha mt-400
multitraker with two cheap dynamics and that was a giant leap forward. So
much so that two other groups have expressed interest in being recorded. I
would like to improve clarity and detail and was leaning towards a condenser
studio mic. I would like to continue using my porta studio for live
recordings but my microphones need to be upgraded. Should I move toward
better dynamic mics or toward condenser? Would a pair of sm-58's do the job?


"agent86" <maxwellsmart@control.gov> wrote in message
news:AieAd.37$657.0@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> Can what be done for around $200? Recording a choir, keys, guitars &
> bass?
> Probably. Buying a decent large diaphragm condenser? Probably not.
> Getting a good recording od a choir & varoius instruments with two cheap
> dynamics & a cheap large condenser on a Decca tree? Maybe, but it
> wouldn't
> be my preferred approach.
>
> Good luck. It might help if you could clarify your questions just a bit.
>
Related resources
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 3:49:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jake Kalyta <kalyta@mts.net> wrote:
>Ok. I've been reading posts here and am confused by xlr and 1/4" jacks.The
>only xlr microphones I was familiar with was a couple of old electovoice
>studio mics and worked fine in an old compatible PA system.When we upgraded
>back in the eighties eveyting wanted 1/4" jacks. These were low impedance
>microphones and needed line transformers to boost the power for these newer
>amplifiers. All our high impedence mics with 1/4" jacks worked fine.

That sure doesn't sound like an upgrade to me. That definitely sounds like
downgrading to cheap consumer gear.

> Most condenser mics require phantom power.Does a mic preamp supply
>phantom power? My recording unit wants 1/4" jacks. Would xlr to 1/4" line
>transformer suffice?

Most preamps today will supply phantom power. If your mike requires phantom
power and your preamp does not supply it, you can buy an external phantom
supply. If your input is high-Z, you will also need a step-up transformer.

>I stopped in at Long & McQuade and if I could purchase a couple of those md
>421's listing for $499.00 Can. I wouldn't be asking these questions. I am
>not sure that I can get enough gain on my mt-400 to even satisfy the 200 ohm
>impedence rating of even these.

They are not condenser microphones, and therefore do not need phantom power.
You will need a step-up transformer to drive a high-Z consumer input from
the 200 ohm source.

In the seventies, Sennheiser made a mike that used an element similar to
the 421 with a step-up transformer inside for a high-Z output. It was very
popular for ham radio operators in Europe but I have not seen one in years.

>I am recording a choir accompanied by a keyboard, piano, 6 & 12 string
>guitars and bass track added later. I have two cheap dynamics and would like
>to add a large diaphram condenser such as marshall 770, apex 430 or oktava
>319 in a decca tree config.Can this be done with reasonable results for
>around $200.00.

Well, none of these mikes will work in a Decca tree configuration. Why do
you want a Decca tree to begin with? Why do you want large diaphragm mikes
for a choir? Are you willing to buy a real preamp with normal XLR inputs?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
December 29, 2004 1:55:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jake Kalyta wrote:

>
> Wow... now you're talking my lingo. This is great info and gives me some
> direction without having to dump a few grand into recording equipment. Not
> that it would break me but would definately put me in the doghouse.(wife
> wants new floors in the house) .

Talk her into hardwood. Make her think it was her idea. Don't tell her
how great hardwood sounds under acoustic strings, grand pianos, & drums.
December 29, 2004 7:56:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Ok. I've been reading posts here and am confused by xlr and 1/4" jacks.The
> only xlr microphones I was familiar with was a couple of old electovoice
> studio mics and worked fine in an old compatible PA system.

I have never seen any microphone without XLR. How would you even have a 1/4
plug on the butt end of a microphone? How would you connect a mic cable to
it?

Unless you are referring to old tape recorder microphones that cost around $5,
it is puzzling where you find mics without XLR connections on them.

> When we upgraded
> back in the eighties eveyting wanted 1/4" jacks. These were low impedance
> microphones and needed line transformers to boost the power for these newer
> amplifiers.

"low impedance" does not mean it puts out less "power" than high impedance
microphones, it just means the IMPEDANCE is lower, which is a good thing.
Thus why you don't see any professional "high impedance" microphones anywhere.

> Most condenser mics require phantom power.Does a mic preamp supply
> phantom power? My recording unit wants 1/4" jacks.

How the hell are you going to get phantom power with a 1/4 jack? (considering
you are probably talking about 2 conductor 1/4 jacks here anyway)

> I am recording a choir

Why doesn't this surprise us?

> guitars and bass track added later. I have two cheap dynamics and would like
> to add a large diaphram condenser such as marshall 770, apex 430 or oktava
> 319 in a decca tree config.Can this be done with reasonable results for
> around $200.00.

To record a choir, you don't need more than a $10 tape recorder with a free mic
included.
!