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problems with Crown PZM 10 for speech recognition

Last response: in Home Audio
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December 29, 2004 2:32:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello,

I hooked up a Crown PZM11LL
(http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/136455.pdf) to a phantom power
module (Art phantom III 48v power supply) and it works great. I can
do speech recognition from 20 feet away.

Next, to save money I bought a Crown PZM 10
(http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/136932.pdf) and the art micromix
(http://artproaudio.com/downloads/specsheet/ARTcs_Specs0...)
I believe the micromix is supposed to convert mic level to line level,
but it seems the output of the micromix is not high enough. The PZM
10 barely works if I yell into it with my mouth an inch a away and the
gain turned all the way up. I plugged the PZM 10 directly into the
XLR input on the micromix. I also made sure the phantom power button
on the micromix was pressed in. I connected the unbalanced headphone
jack on the micromix into the mic input on my computer.

Does anyone have any suggestions for troubleshooting? My guess is the
level output on the micromix is not high enough and I need to buy a
microphone level to line level amplifier.

Thanks,
Jeff


Here are some specs if you don't want to d/l those pdf's:

Crown PZM 10:
--------------------------
- Impedance: 240 ohms,balanced.
- Open circuit sensitivity: 2.5 mV/Pa*(-52 dBV/Pa)

art micromix:
--------------------------
- Balanced/low-impedance XLR Input
- Unbalanced 1/4 Line Input
- Balanced XLR Line Output and Unbalanced 1/4 Line/Headphone
Output
- +36 volt, Phantom Power for the XLR input with Power On/Off
button
- Gain control
- Input Impedance: 10K Ohms balanced and unbalanced
- Max. Input Level: 0dBV balanced (XLR), +10dBV unbalanced (1/4")
- Max. Gain: 50dB XLR, 44dB 1/4
- Phase Shift: less than 10 degrees 20Hz - 20kHz
- EIN: less than 0.01%
- IMD (SMPTE): less than 0.01%

Crown PZM 11LL:
--------------------------
Impedance: 75 ohms,balanced.
Open circuit sensitivity: 1.4V/Pa*(+3 dB re 1V/Pa).
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
December 29, 2004 6:08:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jeff wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I hooked up a Crown PZM11LL
> (http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/136455.pdf) to a phantom power
> module (Art phantom III 48v power supply) and it works great. I can
> do speech recognition from 20 feet away.
>
> Next, to save money I bought a Crown PZM 10
> (http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/136932.pdf) and the art micromix
>
(http://artproaudio.com/downloads/specsheet/ARTcs_Specs0...)
> I believe the micromix is supposed to convert mic level to line
level,
> but it seems the output of the micromix is not high enough. The PZM
> 10 barely works if I yell into it with my mouth an inch a away and
the
> gain turned all the way up. I plugged the PZM 10 directly into the
> XLR input on the micromix. I also made sure the phantom power button
> on the micromix was pressed in. I connected the unbalanced headphone
> jack on the micromix into the mic input on my computer.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for troubleshooting? My guess is
the
> level output on the micromix is not high enough and I need to buy a
> microphone level to line level amplifier.

Looks to me like the Art Micromix is already itself a mic level to line
level amplifier.

If I had to troubleshoot this application, first thing I''d do is plug
in a pair of headphones and see if I get an audible signal in one
channel while stimulating the PZM-10. If this fails, the redoing the
same test with the PZM-11LL would be the next logical step.

The most likely sources of error with the Micromix would be failing to
apply power (is the power light on?), failing to turn on the phantom
power source, and failing to properly set the gain control.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
December 31, 2004 8:40:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< Jeff jeff__==remove--_@theintelligenthome.com>>

<< I hooked up a Crown PZM11LL
(http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/136455.pdf) to a phantom power
module (Art phantom III 48v power supply) and it works great. I can
do speech recognition from 20 feet away. >>

The mic just needs phantom to put out a line level signal. Ok.

<< Next, to save money I bought a Crown PZM 10
(http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/136932.pdf) and the art micromix
(http://artproaudio.com/downloads/specsheet/ARTcs_Specs0...)
I believe the micromix is supposed to convert mic level to line level,
but it seems the output of the micromix is not high enough. The PZM
10 barely works if I yell into it with my mouth an inch a away and the
gain turned all the way up. I plugged the PZM 10 directly into the
XLR input on the micromix. I also made sure the phantom power button
on the micromix was pressed in. I connected the unbalanced headphone
jack on the micromix into the mic input on my computer.

Does anyone have any suggestions for troubleshooting? My guess is the level
output on the micromix is not high enough and I need to buy a microphone level
to line level amplifier. >>


Jeff, the Micromic IS a mic to line level amplifier with 50db of gain.
Troubleshooting 101 would be to try a known to be good mic into the new micpre
(ART Micromix) to check if it is actually working. Best done with an ordinary
handheld mic like a Shure SM58, the PZM11LL has a Line level output so if you
HAVE to use that mic you don't want to add gain, you just want to see if it is
passing a decent signal level. It may be the Micromix is DOA, but have you
tried different mic cables? Listen to the headphone output of the Micromix
directly with headphones, to eliminate that being your patchpoint plugged into
your computer as being the problem. You should be patched from the line out
of the Micromix into a line input of the computer, really.

And if you are really using a mic input into your computer, what do you
have the gain in *your computer* set at?




Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Audio Guy / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
February 3, 2005 4:56:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

FYI in case someone else encounters this problem:

The solution is just as I suspected. I needed more gain. I bought
this micromixer, with 70dB of gain instead of 50dB, and now the mic
works perfect.

ART Tube MP OPL Microphone Preamp
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ARTTMPOPL

Jeff wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I hooked up a Crown PZM11LL
> (http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/136455.pdf) to a phantom power
> module (Art phantom III 48v power supply) and it works great. I can
> do speech recognition from 20 feet away.
>
> Next, to save money I bought a Crown PZM 10
> (http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/136932.pdf) and the art micromix
>
(http://artproaudio.com/downloads/specsheet/ARTcs_Specs0...)
> I believe the micromix is supposed to convert mic level to line
level,
> but it seems the output of the micromix is not high enough. The PZM
> 10 barely works if I yell into it with my mouth an inch a away and
the
> gain turned all the way up. I plugged the PZM 10 directly into the
> XLR input on the micromix. I also made sure the phantom power button
> on the micromix was pressed in. I connected the unbalanced headphone
> jack on the micromix into the mic input on my computer.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for troubleshooting? My guess is
the
> level output on the micromix is not high enough and I need to buy a
> microphone level to line level amplifier.
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>
>
> Here are some specs if you don't want to d/l those pdf's:
>
> Crown PZM 10:
> --------------------------
> - Impedance: 240 ohms,balanced.
> - Open circuit sensitivity: 2.5 mV/Pa*(-52 dBV/Pa)
>
> art micromix:
> --------------------------
> - Balanced/low-impedance XLR Input
> - Unbalanced 1/4 Line Input
> - Balanced XLR Line Output and Unbalanced 1/4 Line/Headphone
> Output
> - +36 volt, Phantom Power for the XLR input with Power On/Off
> button
> - Gain control
> - Input Impedance: 10K Ohms balanced and unbalanced
> - Max. Input Level: 0dBV balanced (XLR), +10dBV unbalanced (1/4")
> - Max. Gain: 50dB XLR, 44dB 1/4
> - Phase Shift: less than 10 degrees 20Hz - 20kHz
> - EIN: less than 0.01%
> - IMD (SMPTE): less than 0.01%
>
> Crown PZM 11LL:
> --------------------------
> Impedance: 75 ohms,balanced.
> Open circuit sensitivity: 1.4V/Pa*(+3 dB re 1V/Pa).
!