Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

appropriate speaker size for low tuning nu-metal guitar so..

Last response: in Home Audio
Share
December 29, 2004 10:34:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

im my opinion
when we tune standard 6th string from standard "E" note to drop "Bb"
the fundamental frequency also will be downed.but I am afrid that the
speaker unit,which by nature can play down to certain frequency,can't
play the lower frequency of guitar
I am now using Marshall Vs230 combo amp,which have 2X10" speaker
i don't know what frequency or note the 10" speaker can play down to
well, when I tune down for low tuning nu-metal or hardcore


but may be 12" unit may play more low frequency than 10"
thouth I don't know exactly what frequency 10" and 12" can play
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 12:24:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

bj wrote:
> im my opinion
> when we tune standard 6th string from standard "E" note to drop "Bb"
> the fundamental frequency also will be downed.but I am afrid that the
> speaker unit,which by nature can play down to certain frequency,can't
> play the lower frequency of guitar
> I am now using Marshall Vs230 combo amp,which have 2X10" speaker
> i don't know what frequency or note the 10" speaker can play down to
> well, when I tune down for low tuning nu-metal or hardcore
>
>
> but may be 12" unit may play more low frequency than 10"
> thouth I don't know exactly what frequency 10" and 12" can play

In a sealed cabinet, the 10's will work well.
(think SVT !)
Open back - I would expect to need at least 12's.
Better yet, use a 4x12 closed back Marshall 1960
which is the standard metal/hard rock guitar cab.

RD
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 1:44:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

bj <bluesjeon@hotmail.com> wrote:
>im my opinion
>when we tune standard 6th string from standard "E" note to drop "Bb"
>the fundamental frequency also will be downed.but I am afrid that the
>speaker unit,which by nature can play down to certain frequency,can't
>play the lower frequency of guitar
>I am now using Marshall Vs230 combo amp,which have 2X10" speaker
>i don't know what frequency or note the 10" speaker can play down to
>well, when I tune down for low tuning nu-metal or hardcore
>
>
> but may be 12" unit may play more low frequency than 10"
> thouth I don't know exactly what frequency 10" and 12" can play

Hint: most of that stuff doesn't _have_ to reproduce the fundamental at
all to sound low.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Related resources
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 5:08:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Try adding a 1 x 15 extension speaker cabinet to your amp. Low tuning
is hard on guitar speakers, so you might want to upgrade to more heavy
duty models that are will handle more power if you are playing very
loud.

Al

On 29 Dec 2004 07:34:40 -0800, bluesjeon@hotmail.com (bj) wrote:

>im my opinion
>when we tune standard 6th string from standard "E" note to drop "Bb"
>the fundamental frequency also will be downed.but I am afrid that the
>speaker unit,which by nature can play down to certain frequency,can't
>play the lower frequency of guitar
>I am now using Marshall Vs230 combo amp,which have 2X10" speaker
>i don't know what frequency or note the 10" speaker can play down to
>well, when I tune down for low tuning nu-metal or hardcore
>
>
> but may be 12" unit may play more low frequency than 10"
> thouth I don't know exactly what frequency 10" and 12" can play
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 7:16:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> bj wrote:
> >im my opinion
> >when we tune standard 6th string from standard "E" note to drop "Bb"
> >the fundamental frequency also will be downed.but I am afrid that the
> >speaker unit,which by nature can play down to certain frequency,can't
> >play the lower frequency of guitar
> >I am now using Marshall Vs230 combo amp,which have 2X10" speaker
> >i don't know what frequency or note the 10" speaker can play down to
> >well, when I tune down for low tuning nu-metal or hardcore


> > but may be 12" unit may play more low frequency than 10"
> > thouth I don't know exactly what frequency 10" and 12" can play

> Hint: most of that stuff doesn't _have_ to reproduce the fundamental at
> all to sound low.

And the chances of the guitar actually producing the alleged fundamental
are slim to none.

--
ha
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 7:44:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> but may be 12" unit may play more low frequency than 10"
> thouth I don't know exactly what frequency 10" and 12" can play

Something to consider if you're thinking along those lines...good headphones
can reproduce 24 Hz signals without much trouble.

IOW, your 10-inchers can probably reproduce your low Bb, but at a lower SPL
than the 12-inch driver...ALL other things being equal.

-John O
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 7:55:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"bj" <bluesjeon@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1c7c168a.0412290734.496034cf@posting.google.com...
> im my opinion
> when we tune standard 6th string from standard "E" note to drop "Bb"
> the fundamental frequency also will be downed.but I am afrid that the
> speaker unit,which by nature can play down to certain frequency,can't
> play the lower frequency of guitar
> I am now using Marshall Vs230 combo amp,which have 2X10" speaker
> i don't know what frequency or note the 10" speaker can play down to
> well, when I tune down for low tuning nu-metal or hardcore
>
>
> but may be 12" unit may play more low frequency than 10"
> thouth I don't know exactly what frequency 10" and 12" can play

If you're using an open-backed cabinet (I'm not familiar with that
particular Marshall) then the cabinet, not the driver, is probably the
limiting factor on low frequency response. But as the others have noted, it
probably won't make a huge difference. On the other hand, you might try
playing through a good tubed bass amp and seeing what you hear.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 8:56:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

bj wrote:
> when we tune standard 6th string from standard "E" note to drop "Bb"
> the fundamental frequency also will be downed.but I am afrid that the
> speaker unit,which by nature can play down to certain frequency,can't
> play the lower frequency of guitar

It can't reproduce your E (which is 81 Hz) at the same level either.
Look at the frequency curve of the Celestion Vintage 30 [1].

> I am now using Marshall Vs230 combo amp,which have 2X10" speaker
> i don't know what frequency or note the 10" speaker can play down to
> well, when I tune down for low tuning nu-metal or hardcore

What is your bassist for btw?

> but may be 12" unit may play more low frequency than 10"
> thouth I don't know exactly what frequency 10" and 12" can play

If you're looking to replace your bassist, try some of the digital
modelling stuff and see how their cabinet models affect bass response
(if at all).

[1]
<http://professional.celestion.com/products/guitar/class...;

Johann
--
Dennoch gibt es einen gewaltigen Unterschied, ob ich mit Linux oder mit
Windows herunterfahre...d.h. mit Windows egal von welcher Version
passiert das nicht wie mit Linux <g>
("Merlinux" in <3D47918F.4070307@yahoo.de>)
December 29, 2004 8:59:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Strings instruments produces armonics over the fundamental frequency.
Nice saturations on the electrical signal (provided by tube guitar
amplifiers for sample) enhance the armonics too.
The auditive neural system (hear + brain) can figure out the fundamental
frequency using just the armonics, even it is not present at all.
A big fat guitar need the lower frequencies to "drive" armonics, but in
the mixing process these freq are sometimes totally discarded.
For this reason the guitar amplifiers and cabinets are NOT designed to
fully reproduce the fundamentals.
Simply you don't need it.
The lower extension is not only a matter of size of the speakers, but is
a complex mix of air volume and shape of the cabinet, speaker kind and
size and thousands of other variables!
Probably you will need a multi-way cabinet with an apposite section
designed to reproduce frequencies in the range of 90-120Hz to fully
accomplish this need.
--
ale
Anonymous
December 30, 2004 7:20:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

x-no-archive: yes

bj wrote:

> im my opinion
> when we tune standard 6th string from standard "E" note to drop "Bb"
> the fundamental frequency also will be downed.but I am afrid that the
> speaker unit,which by nature can play down to certain frequency,can't
> play the lower frequency of guitar
> I am now using Marshall Vs230 combo amp,which have 2X10" speaker
> i don't know what frequency or note the 10" speaker can play down to
> well, when I tune down for low tuning nu-metal or hardcore
>
>
> but may be 12" unit may play more low frequency than 10"
> thouth I don't know exactly what frequency 10" and 12" can play

10" can get lower than 12" and vice versa. Note that bass players
are known to use 10" speakers on a regular basis. The reference
standard SVT is eight (8) 10" speakers.

Anything below about 100Hz on any electric guitar really needs to
not be there anymore. Stuff below 200Hz has to explain why it
needs to be there.

--
Les Cargill
Anonymous
January 2, 2005 5:26:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> im my opinion
> when we tune standard 6th string from standard "E" note to drop "Bb"
> the fundamental frequency also will be downed.but I am afrid that the
> speaker unit,which by nature can play down to certain frequency,can't
> play the lower frequency of guitar
> I am now using Marshall Vs230 combo amp,which have 2X10" speaker
> i don't know what frequency or note the 10" speaker can play down to
> well, when I tune down for low tuning nu-metal or hardcore
>
> but may be 12" unit may play more low frequency than 10"
> thouth I don't know exactly what frequency 10" and 12" can play

10's are generally just plain bad for guitar, especially in an open-back
config. Electric guitars, amps, and speakers are all comprimised systems
that counteract each other's flaws. It's critical that the speaker boost or
attenuate certain freq ranges to compensate for certain aspects of electric
guitars and amps. 12's not only deliver the desired low midrange to
overcome the lack of proper acoustic loading in an open-back config, but
also cut off at the right high-midrange region with a steep slope to avoid
treble, which is very dirty and fatiguing. 10's don't fill out enough and
let too much trashy treble through.

There is no real bass or treble to an electric guitar sound. You can
generally safely turn 80Hz bass and 12kHz treble knobs all the way down on
mixers in both live and studio settings, and it sometimes helps on a loud
stage. The critical frequency ranges are 250Hz body, 1kHz voice, and 3kHz
rip. Get those three ranges balanced and you're 90% of the way to a good
guitar tone. Far too many live sound engineers do not appreciate how widely
those ranges can vary from room to room. In some situations it's not
uncommon to run out of EQ in both directions (ie 250Hz -15dB, 3kHz +15dB).
January 3, 2005 6:22:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

when we tune standard 6th string from standard "E" note to drop "Bb"

get yourself a horn section, they would love to play in Bb. could be
cool.
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 5:31:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"db" <deanbowlus@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1104751335.453388.306940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> when we tune standard 6th string from standard "E" note to drop "Bb"
>
> get yourself a horn section, they would love to play in Bb. could be
> cool.

LOL! A numetal horn section - I dunno about "cool", but it'd sure be
different!
They could call themselves "Tower of Power Chords"

Neil Henderson
January 3, 2005 10:15:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Yeah it would be cool. Horns love to play in those flat keys, I think
Bb has a lot of open stops for them. Need at least a couple of trumpets
and a trombone to build balanced chords. With the guitars tuned down,
there would be an incredible balance of brightness from the horns, the
vocal could slip right into the pocket in the middle.
Dean
Anonymous
January 4, 2005 9:07:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Sugarite wrote:

> 10's are generally just plain bad for guitar, especially in an open-back
> config. Electric guitars, amps, and speakers are all comprimised systems
> that counteract each other's flaws. It's critical that the speaker boost or
> attenuate certain freq ranges to compensate for certain aspects of electric
> guitars and amps. 12's not only deliver the desired low midrange to
> overcome the lack of proper acoustic loading in an open-back config, but
> also cut off at the right high-midrange region with a steep slope to avoid
> treble, which is very dirty and fatiguing. 10's don't fill out enough and
> let too much trashy treble through.

This is unbelieveable nonsense, unworthy of detailed rebuttal.

> There is no real bass or treble to an electric guitar sound. You can
> generally safely turn 80Hz bass and 12kHz treble knobs all the way down on
> mixers in both live and studio settings, and it sometimes helps on a loud
> stage. The critical frequency ranges are 250Hz body, 1kHz voice, and 3kHz
> rip. Get those three ranges balanced and you're 90% of the way to a good
> guitar tone. Far too many live sound engineers do not appreciate how widely
> those ranges can vary from room to room. In some situations it's not
> uncommon to run out of EQ in both directions (ie 250Hz -15dB, 3kHz +15dB).

Ditto.

--
ha
!