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cheap s.d. condenser mics compared?

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Anonymous
January 1, 2005 11:28:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have an Oktava MK-01 I bought a couple of years ago (specifically for
recording banjo), and I like it.

Now looking for another mic or two, and find the choice in inexpensive
small-diaphragm condenser mics has grown!

Any opinions out there on how some of the more recent models compare
with the MK-01, especially for recording banjo, ukulele,steel-strung
acoustic guitar, etc. :

CAD gxl1200
Behringer b-5
Nady cm90, cm95
MXL 993
or anything else out there....?

Also, are there any of the multitude of low-$ large-diaphragm mics you
like for those sorts of instruments?

TIA

Dan
Anonymous
January 1, 2005 3:34:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Dan Gellert <dgellert@skyenet.net> wrote:
>
>CAD gxl1200
>Behringer b-5
>Nady cm90, cm95
>MXL 993
>or anything else out there....?

I'm not going to comment in any detail here, but I _will_ say that some
of these microphones are actually the same mike with different labels.

>Also, are there any of the multitude of low-$ large-diaphragm mics you
>like for those sorts of instruments?

I think it's worth saving up for an AT-4051 or the Josephson Series 4,
personally.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
January 1, 2005 11:40:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1104596927.858265.313060@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> dgellert@skyenet.net writes:

> I have an Oktava MK-01 I bought a couple of years ago (specifically for
> recording banjo), and I like it.

> Any opinions out there on how some of the more recent models compare
> with the MK-01, especially for recording banjo, ukulele,steel-strung
> acoustic guitar, etc. :
>
> CAD gxl1200
> Behringer b-5
> Nady cm90, cm95
> MXL 993
> or anything else out there....?

There are a lot more brands, but the same guts gets used in several of
them. I tend to trust the companies who have been in that side of the
business for a while - MXL and Studio Projects to name a couple -
because they seem to have the quality issues pretty much under
control. Also, they don't tend to compete with themselves to sell an
even cheaper mic than than they did last year.

I think you'd be happier saving up a bit longer and getting a step up
in quality rather than something different but similar to what you
have now. If you have a good preamp with plenty of quiet gain, you
might keep your eyes open for a used Beyer M260 (ribbon). That's a
nice, old timey sounding mic. And if you can find one cheap that
doesn't work, you can get an RCA 77DX ribbon put in it for around $100
and have something really special.

Or look around for a used Electro Voice RE-20 at a civilized price.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Related resources
January 2, 2005 12:04:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 1 Jan 2005 08:28:47 -0800, "Dan Gellert" <dgellert@skyenet.net>
wrote:

>I have an Oktava MK-01 I bought a couple of years ago (specifically for
>recording banjo), and I like it.
>
>Now looking for another mic or two, and find the choice in inexpensive
>small-diaphragm condenser mics has grown!
>
>Any opinions out there on how some of the more recent models compare
>with the MK-01, especially for recording banjo, ukulele,steel-strung
>acoustic guitar, etc. :
>
>CAD gxl1200
>Behringer b-5
>Nady cm90, cm95
>MXL 993
>or anything else out there....?
>
>Also, are there any of the multitude of low-$ large-diaphragm mics you
>like for those sorts of instruments?
>
>TIA
>
>Dan

Why condenser only?
Anonymous
January 2, 2005 4:17:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Check out reviews for the MK012, MXL 603 and Studio Projects C4.....if you
have the money to spend, you can't beat Neumann KM184's.......whatever you
decide for stereo recording, get a well matched pair (watch out for quality
control on the Oktavas)

as fas as LDC's for the same purpose, I've heard great things about the AT
4060 though never tried it myself

--

Jonny Durango

"Patrick was a saint. I ain't."

http://www.jdurango.com



"Dan Gellert" <dgellert@skyenet.net> wrote in message
news:1104596927.858265.313060@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I have an Oktava MK-01 I bought a couple of years ago (specifically for
> recording banjo), and I like it.
>
> Now looking for another mic or two, and find the choice in inexpensive
> small-diaphragm condenser mics has grown!
>
> Any opinions out there on how some of the more recent models compare
> with the MK-01, especially for recording banjo, ukulele,steel-strung
> acoustic guitar, etc. :
>
> CAD gxl1200
> Behringer b-5
> Nady cm90, cm95
> MXL 993
> or anything else out there....?
>
> Also, are there any of the multitude of low-$ large-diaphragm mics you
> like for those sorts of instruments?
>
> TIA
>
> Dan
>
Anonymous
January 2, 2005 4:17:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>as fas as LDC's for the same purpose, I've heard great things about the AT
4060 though never tried it myself

I had never used 4060's until week before last when I was loaned a pair and
used them for overheads on a drum kit. I'm sure they work nicely for other
applications as well, but I was extemely pleased with them on the OH's. I'm
going to have to get myself a matched pair I guess. Somehow I think these
are going to permanently supplant my KM 184's

Doug Joyce
Animix Productions
Durango, CO

"Jonny Durango" <jonnybush_from_officedurango1@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:xYHBd.738675$mD.507744@attbi_s02...
> Check out reviews for the MK012, MXL 603 and Studio Projects C4.....if you
> have the money to spend, you can't beat Neumann KM184's.......whatever you
> decide for stereo recording, get a well matched pair (watch out for
quality
> control on the Oktavas)
>
> as fas as LDC's for the same purpose, I've heard great things about the AT
> 4060 though never tried it myself
>
> --
>
> Jonny Durango
>
> "Patrick was a saint. I ain't."
>
> http://www.jdurango.com
>
>
>
> "Dan Gellert" <dgellert@skyenet.net> wrote in message
> news:1104596927.858265.313060@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > I have an Oktava MK-01 I bought a couple of years ago (specifically for
> > recording banjo), and I like it.
> >
> > Now looking for another mic or two, and find the choice in inexpensive
> > small-diaphragm condenser mics has grown!
> >
> > Any opinions out there on how some of the more recent models compare
> > with the MK-01, especially for recording banjo, ukulele,steel-strung
> > acoustic guitar, etc. :
> >
> > CAD gxl1200
> > Behringer b-5
> > Nady cm90, cm95
> > MXL 993
> > or anything else out there....?
> >
> > Also, are there any of the multitude of low-$ large-diaphragm mics you
> > like for those sorts of instruments?
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > Dan
> >
>
>
Anonymous
January 2, 2005 4:17:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Animix wrote:
>> as fas as LDC's for the same purpose, I've heard great things about the AT
>> 4060 though never tried it myself
>
> I had never used 4060's until week before last when I was loaned a pair and
> used them for overheads on a drum kit. I'm sure they work nicely for other
> applications as well, but I was extemely pleased with them on the OH's. I'm
> going to have to get myself a matched pair I guess. Somehow I think these
> are going to permanently supplant my KM 184's


I'm guessing you borrowed a pair of the small DPA's and not large diaphragm Audio Technica tube mics?
Anonymous
January 2, 2005 5:25:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 1 Jan 2005 08:28:47 -0800, "Dan Gellert" <dgellert@skyenet.net>
wrote:

>I have an Oktava MK-01 I bought a couple of years ago (specifically for
>recording banjo), and I like it.
>
>Now looking for another mic or two, and find the choice in inexpensive
>small-diaphragm condenser mics has grown!
>
>Any opinions out there on how some of the more recent models compare
>with the MK-01, especially for recording banjo, ukulele,steel-strung
>acoustic guitar, etc. :
>
>CAD gxl1200
>Behringer b-5
>Nady cm90, cm95
>MXL 993
>or anything else out there....?
>
>Also, are there any of the multitude of low-$ large-diaphragm mics you
>like for those sorts of instruments?
>
>TIA
>
>Dan
Rode NT-5, $400/pair
Audio-Technica AT3031, $170 each
In my opinion, these are both a level above the cheap SD condensers in
quality, reliability and consistency.
Most of the cheap SD condensers are inconsistent. It's difficult to
find a matched pair. Many of them have an excessively hyped HF
response ... kind of like a parody of a KM184.
Mike T.
January 2, 2005 7:32:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

We've been testing out and using almost 50 pairs of SDC's over the last
couple of years. IMO, an Oktava MC012 in good working order is about as
good a mic as you'll get in that price range. The new Peluso CEMC6's
offers the sonic performance of some of the higher-end mics for under
$300 a piece.

For the money, I think you'll find better performance in budget LDC's
rather than low-budget SDC's. A great little mic that only runs $79 and
sounds excellent as a workhorse mic for acoustic instruments is the
Studio Projects B1.

Some other great mics are the mid-sized Groove Tubes GT 33 [ now $99
each @ GC ] and the GT44 tube mic [ now $199 @ GC ]. They've been
drastically reduced in price [ I guess GC is using them as a loss
leader like they were with the Oktavas ] are the best bargain on the
market at the moment. They also have omni and super-cardioid caps
options available.

Depends on your budget, Dan. If you wanna stay under $100 for a mic -
either the SP B1 or the GT33 would be my recommendation.


--
Dot
Anonymous
January 2, 2005 10:18:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

First off, thanks to all for lots to think about!



(Dot wrote:) 
> A great little mic that only runs $79 and
>sounds excellent as a workhorse mic for acoustic instruments is >the
Studio Projects B1.

I have one of them, and like it real well on fiddle and voice-- never
thought of it as "little", though.... Was thinking of getting another
of them, too.

Who is selling it for $79 ???


Dan
Anonymous
January 2, 2005 11:05:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Dot" <Dot.1i7wfm@news.audiobanter.com> wrote in message
news:D ot.1i7wfm@news.audiobanter.com...
>
> We've been testing out and using almost 50 pairs of SDC's over the last
> couple of years. IMO, an Oktava MC012 in good working order is about as
> good a mic as you'll get in that price range. The new Peluso CEMC6's
> offers the sonic performance of some of the higher-end mics for under
> $300 a piece.
>
> For the money, I think you'll find better performance in budget LDC's
> rather than low-budget SDC's. A great little mic that only runs $79 and
> sounds excellent as a workhorse mic for acoustic instruments is the
> Studio Projects B1.
>
> Some other great mics are the mid-sized Groove Tubes GT 33 [ now $99
> each @ GC ] and the GT44 tube mic [ now $199 @ GC ]. They've been
> drastically reduced in price [ I guess GC is using them as a loss
> leader like they were with the Oktavas ] are the best bargain on the
> market at the moment. They also have omni and super-cardioid caps
> options available.
>
> Depends on your budget, Dan. If you wanna stay under $100 for a mic -
> either the SP B1 or the GT33 would be my recommendation.

Personally, while I thought the GT33 was a decent mic, it was also
(sonically) close to a clone of the Shure SM81, and that's not a mic I would
recommend on most banjos, although it's nice on a lot of steel-string
guitars. As for the Beyer M260 Mike Rivers mentioned, it can be very nice on
a lot of banjos and ukes, but I have yet to find a guitar on which it sounds
good, as its large amount of proximity effect makes the guitar sound very
boomy and muffled -- yes, even an old, small guitar.

The GT44 is a lot sweeter than the GT33. Frankly, though, in that price
range I'd go for a good Oktava MC012 from the Sound Room. It'll work
decently on many guitars, particularly small ones, and it likes Gibsons.
Spring for the multi-capsule set; I've found the hyper capsules sound nicer
on some steel-strung banjos.

Or save up for something pricier.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
January 2, 2005 1:03:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 11:28:47 -0500, Dan Gellert wrote
(in article <1104596927.858265.313060@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>):

> I have an Oktava MK-01 I bought a couple of years ago (specifically for
> recording banjo), and I like it.
>
> Now looking for another mic or two, and find the choice in inexpensive
> small-diaphragm condenser mics has grown!
>
> Any opinions out there on how some of the more recent models compare
> with the MK-01, especially for recording banjo, ukulele,steel-strung
> acoustic guitar, etc. :
>
> CAD gxl1200
> Behringer b-5
> Nady cm90, cm95
> MXL 993
> or anything else out there....?
>
> Also, are there any of the multitude of low-$ large-diaphragm mics you
> like for those sorts of instruments?
>
> TIA
>
> Dan
>

Dan,

I have a lot of mic reviews in the articles archive on my site. Help
yourself.

Smiles,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
January 2, 2005 2:50:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Dot wrote:

> For the money, I think you'll find better performance in budget LDC's
> rather than low-budget SDC's.

Where'd you get that idea? The musician's Friend catalog?


> A great little mic that only runs $79 and
> sounds excellent as a workhorse mic for acoustic instruments is the
> Studio Projects B1.
>
> Some other great mics are the mid-sized Groove Tubes GT 33 [ now $99
> each @ GC ] and the GT44 tube mic [ now $199 @ GC ]. They've been
> drastically reduced in price [ I guess GC is using them as a loss
> leader like they were with the Oktavas ] are the best bargain on the
> market at the moment. They also have omni and super-cardioid caps
> options available.
>
> Depends on your budget, Dan. If you wanna stay under $100 for a mic -
> either the SP B1 or the GT33 would be my recommendation.

If you already have a few good mics & just want to spend another $100,
fine. If you really need a good mic under $100, then you won't do better
than an SM57 or an EV 635a.
Anonymous
January 2, 2005 8:53:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

support@mistral.net wrote:
> On 1 Jan 2005 08:28:47 -0800, "Dan Gellert" <dgellert@skyenet.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I have an Oktava MK-01 I bought a couple of years ago (specifically
for
> >recording banjo), and I like it.
> >
> >Now looking for another mic or two, and find the choice in
inexpensive
> >small-diaphragm condenser mics has grown!
> >
> >Any opinions out there on how some of the more recent models compare
> >with the MK-01, especially for recording banjo, ukulele,steel-strung
> >acoustic guitar, etc. :
> >
> >CAD gxl1200
> >Behringer b-5
> >Nady cm90, cm95
> >MXL 993
> >or anything else out there....?
> >
> >Also, are there any of the multitude of low-$ large-diaphragm mics
you
> >like for those sorts of instruments?
> >
> >TIA
> >
> >Dan
>
> Why condenser only?

Exactly ...
At this point I would say BeyerDynamic M201
If you look at used ones , make sure you get the more
recent version with XLR connector or you will need the
Tuchel to XLR adapter cable.
The new ones should all have XLR.

RD
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 3:56:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

support@mistral.net wrote:

> Why condenser only?

My guess would be that for those instruments he wants some
HF in the signal.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
January 4, 2005 12:04:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Cain at arcane@arcanemethods.com wrote on 1/3/05 3:56 PM:

>
>
> support@mistral.net wrote:
>
>> Why condenser only?
>
> My guess would be that for those instruments he wants some
> HF in the signal.
>

You know, I had the same reponse to that question at first, and with my
own hamfisted playing I think I still prefer condenser mic's.....

But I just started experimenting a bit with close-mic recording my
wife's guitar playing. She plays a concert-sized c.1930 Gibson flattop,
using a light-gauge pick (YOU try to tell her to use a heavier one...)

Anyway, the Oktava MK-012 which sounds great on my banjos (not at all
scratchy or harsh) didn't want to pick up much except pick noise from
that guitar no matter where I put it.

Mike Rivers suggested a RE-20... Well I don't have one of those, but I
do have one that kind of looks like it...:)  ( A beat-to-hell old PL-10
I got at a junk shop cause it was way cheap and never figured out what
to do with. ) Turns out that a lack of HF response is exactly what
that instrument seems to want. Smoothed things right out! A PL-80 I
got at the same time (and also have never used) sounded even better.

A S.P. B-1 sounds good, but I wouldn't call it better than either of
those old dynamics; just different. And I think it could use just a bit
of the top end cut.

That's what I like about this group.. If you pose a question, you get
even better questions!

thanks

Dan
Anonymous
January 4, 2005 11:17:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <crcbi801vol@enews2.newsguy.com> arcane@arcanemethods.com writes:

> > Why condenser only?
>
> My guess would be that for those instruments he wants some
> HF in the signal.

Also, they're quiet instruments, and a mic with a higher sensitivity
would be desirable, all other things being equal (which of course they
aren't).

Us plunky banjo recordists need a good $100/channel mic preamp with
about 75 dB of quiet gain.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 4, 2005 3:51:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1104811798.569501.211110@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> dgellert@skyenet.net writes:

> Mike Rivers suggested a RE-20... Well I don't have one of those, but I
> do have one that kind of looks like it...:)  ( A beat-to-hell old PL-10

It only kind of looks like it. The PL-10 is the RE-10 marketed through
music store and installed sound channels. It does have some of the EV
dynamic mic characteristics of the RE-20 (which sounds nice on small
guitars) so I'm not surprised that it worked out well for you.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 4, 2005 4:07:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1104845629k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>In article <1104811798.569501.211110@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> dgellert@skyenet.net writes:
>
>> Mike Rivers suggested a RE-20... Well I don't have one of those, but I
>> do have one that kind of looks like it...:)  ( A beat-to-hell old PL-10
>
>It only kind of looks like it. The PL-10 is the RE-10 marketed through
>music store and installed sound channels. It does have some of the EV
>dynamic mic characteristics of the RE-20 (which sounds nice on small
>guitars) so I'm not surprised that it worked out well for you.

No, the PL-10 is very different than the RE-10. The PL-10 is a weird thing
that looks like a miniature RE-20. It has the variable-D arrangement, but
the pattern is so extremely wide that it isn't really needed anyway. I mean,
amazingly wide. It's practically omni it's so wide.

It's a great mike for acoustic guitar if you can live with the leakage, though.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
January 4, 2005 11:36:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <crem0q$smn$1@panix2.panix.com> kludge@panix.com writes:

> No, the PL-10 is very different than the RE-10. The PL-10 is a weird thing
> that looks like a miniature RE-20.

Oh, THAT PL-10. Maybe the wide pattern is why it sounds good on a
guitar.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 5, 2005 8:06:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Most of the Electro-Voice mics in the Pro-Line had an equivalent in the
standard line.
For example:
pl5 = 635a
pl9 = re55 (short shaft)
pl20 = re20
pl76 = 1776a
(I was an ElectroVoice dealer throughout the 80's)

The pl10 was a ProLine orphan with no standard line sibling and not a
big seller,
possibly due to issues like Scott points out and the fact that it was
marketed as
a drum mic but didn't really sound any better than a 57 but was more
expensive.

rd
Anonymous
January 5, 2005 11:30:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

RD Jones wrote:
> Most of the Electro-Voice mics in the Pro-Line had an equivalent in the
> standard line.
> For example:
> pl5 = 635a
> pl9 = re55 (short shaft)
> pl20 = re20
> pl76 = 1776a
> (I was an ElectroVoice dealer throughout the 80's)
>
> The pl10 was a ProLine orphan with no standard line sibling and not a
> big seller,
> possibly due to issues like Scott points out and the fact that it was
> marketed as
> a drum mic but didn't really sound any better than a 57 but was more
> expensive.


RE11 = PL11
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