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KOTOR2: Cut out ending (spoilers)

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February 16, 2005 10:26:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

[ I posted this by mistake to the strategic forum, reposting
here. ]

This was posted to the Obsidian forums. Someone dug through the
data files and found that there was an ending very similar to
PST, and there was a romantic death for Atton which looks quite
cool. Too bad Obsidian dropped the ball and cut it out at the
end. It would have made the game a real masterpiece:

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29764...
Related resources
Anonymous
February 16, 2005 6:04:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> The "writer" of that article blames Lucas Arts which is
> stupid. Blame the developer. They are the ones signing up for the
> short time line and not delivering in time.

Of course. Because a developper always knows how much time
a game will take to develop....


-Moa Dragon
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 4:01:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:59:58 GMT, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
wrote:

>On 2005-02-16, Mils Michael <mickmils@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29764...

>> More on this...

>> http://www.gamespy.com/articles/588/588057p1.html?fromi...

>> A shame, a real shame.

>The "writer" of that article blames Lucas Arts which is
>stupid. Blame the developer. They are the ones signing up for the
>short time line and not delivering in time.

As essentially a new company did Obsidian have much of a choice? I've
also heard some rumours that the project timeline may have originally
been longer but LA pushed it up.
February 17, 2005 4:01:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-02-17, Ian Galbraith <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:59:58 GMT, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 2005-02-16, Mils Michael <mickmils@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29764...
>
>>> More on this...
>
>>> http://www.gamespy.com/articles/588/588057p1.html?fromi...
>
>>> A shame, a real shame.
>
>>The "writer" of that article blames Lucas Arts which is
>>stupid. Blame the developer. They are the ones signing up for the
>>short time line and not delivering in time.
>
> As essentially a new company did Obsidian have much of a choice? I've
> also heard some rumours that the project timeline may have originally
> been longer but LA pushed it up.
>

Before Troika released VTM: Bloodlines they claimed they had
everything done and were fixing minor bugs. If you don't believe
me check out the Gamespot coverage on that game.

VTM: Bloodlines was released with MAJOR typos after about half
way through the game. It ran for about 20% of the population. The
patch fixed about 10% of the issues with the game.

Do you really believe that these developers had no time to
complete their game? It's not the publisher.

THE PUBLISHER DOESN'T DEVELOP THE GAME AND SIGN A CONTRACT WITH
THE DATE OF DELIVERABLES ON IT

A contract is a contract is a contract.

Check the development diaries at kotor2.com and tell me the game
wasn't rushed. OE dropped the ball. I'm not buying NWN2. I
suggest you do the same. It's time these renegades got dragged
back into a company with proper project management.

I hope and pray that OE runs out of funding like Troika. I really
do. That way talented people with proper time management skills
(i.e Bioware) get the RPG work.
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 4:01:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> I hope and pray that OE runs out of funding like Troika. I really
> do. That way talented people with proper time management skills
> (i.e Bioware) get the RPG work.

Are you related to Thrasher ?

-Moa Dragon
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 9:24:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Ian Galbraith" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:ckl7119p958n53m9pumid06d5duetb32t5@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:59:58 GMT, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 2005-02-16, Mils Michael <mickmils@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29764...
>
>>> More on this...
>
>>> http://www.gamespy.com/articles/588/588057p1.html?fromi...
>
>>> A shame, a real shame.
>
>>The "writer" of that article blames Lucas Arts which is
>>stupid. Blame the developer. They are the ones signing up for the
>>short time line and not delivering in time.
>
> As essentially a new company did Obsidian have much of a choice? I've
> also heard some rumours that the project timeline may have originally
> been longer but LA pushed it up.
>
>
SPOILER
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a) It seems like the story was built for the Dark Side and a rush job on the
Light Side

b) I knew Mandalore was Canderous, but they never revealed him

c) I never gave an order whether to blow up Malachor V or not

d) I never got a scene in which I met that black droid or was even hinted
at. I was simply given that evil black droid on the ship... I was 'huh?
where did he come from all of a sudden?'


Jonah Falcon
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 6:56:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> >
> >
> SPOILER
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> a) It seems like the story was built for the Dark Side and a rush job on
the
> Light Side
>




Actually, its the other way around, Light side makes a lot more sense (even
the npc's are a lot easier to influence, hence you get a lot of backround
info out of them)

-Tomi
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 7:04:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Tomi Heteaho" <tomi.heteaho@kkkkolumbus.fi> wrote in message
news:cv4s4u$b4q$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
>
>> >
>> >
>> SPOILER
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
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>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
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>> .
>> .
>> a) It seems like the story was built for the Dark Side and a rush job on
> the
>> Light Side
>>
>
>
>
>
> Actually, its the other way around, Light side makes a lot more sense
> (even
> the npc's are a lot easier to influence, hence you get a lot of backround
> info out of them)

That's not exactly true. Just talk to gain their influence by lying. Your
actions speak louder than words. Eventually, new dialogue pops up to
influence them. Remember, gotta make them hate and fear -- that leads them
down the dark path.

Jonah Falcon
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 7:09:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:kmoRd.235$Ba3.195@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Tomi Heteaho" <tomi.heteaho@kkkkolumbus.fi> wrote in message
> news:cv4s4u$b4q$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> SPOILER
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
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>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> a) It seems like the story was built for the Dark Side and a rush job on
>> the
>>> Light Side
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually, its the other way around, Light side makes a lot more sense
>> (even
>> the npc's are a lot easier to influence, hence you get a lot of backround
>> info out of them)
>
> That's not exactly true. Just talk to gain their influence by lying. Your
> actions speak louder than words. Eventually, new dialogue pops up to
> influence them. Remember, gotta make them hate and fear -- that leads them
> down the dark path.
>
> Jonah Falcon

By the way, was there a POINT to Mira being on Malachor V? Just to fight
Hannhar? Hello? She fights him... and... nothing. No more reference to her.

Jonah Falcon
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 7:18:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> writes:
>By the way, was there a POINT to Mira being on Malachor V? Just to fight
>Hannhar? Hello? She fights him... and... nothing. No more reference to her.

There was a lot of stuff dropped from the endgame for time considerations,
it looks like -- there's a thread on the Obsidian forums and an article at
Gamespy that talk about what was originally intended and how it got lost;
if Obsidian had been given another 6 months to work on the game, I have the
feeling _everyone_ would have been a lot happier.

--
Chas Blackwell <Black Isis> CITES Systems Management Group
<cblkwell@uiuc.edu>
I don't even know what CITES stands
for, so I don't speak for them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"As we were forged we shall return, perhaps some day. | VNV Nation,
I will remember you and wonder who we were." | "Further"
February 18, 2005 7:22:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-02-18, Jonah Falcon <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote:

> By the way, was there a POINT to Mira being on Malachor V? Just to fight
> Hannhar? Hello? She fights him... and... nothing. No more reference to her.

Yes. In the cut out ending all your characters make choices (dark
or light), and some of them get killed (Scion killing Atton "And
I get the fool. I will remake you in my image and then you will
die.")

It would have made sense if they all had their trials on Malachor
V and then confronted Kreia or Atis? We can't be sure.
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 8:40:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd1c5j3.1s9u.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
> On 2005-02-18, Jonah Falcon <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> By the way, was there a POINT to Mira being on Malachor V? Just to fight
>> Hannhar? Hello? She fights him... and... nothing. No more reference to
>> her.
>
> Yes. In the cut out ending all your characters make choices (dark
> or light), and some of them get killed (Scion killing Atton "And
> I get the fool. I will remake you in my image and then you will
> die.")
>
> It would have made sense if they all had their trials on Malachor
> V and then confronted Kreia or Atis? We can't be sure.

They sort of foreshadowed in the Cave that you would be forced to choose
between Traya/Kreia and your friends, remember?

I was never given a chance to accept or reject Traya/Kreia.

Jonah Falcon
February 18, 2005 8:53:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-02-18, Jonah Falcon <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote:

> They sort of foreshadowed in the Cave that you would be forced to choose
> between Traya/Kreia and your friends, remember?

Did you ever try not going with anyone? They all turn around and
say "Apathy is death." I almost soiled my self from sheer
terror. That was the creepiest scene since I first saw a Haunt in
the Thief series.

> I was never given a chance to accept or reject Traya/Kreia.

Right, it was cut out from the end. I'm still mad at Obsidian for
doing that. Evidently their developers spend more time in the
NWN2 forums now and haven't posted once to their own KOTOR2
forums since the games launch. I don't think we'll even see a
proper patch get released.
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 10:26:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd1cat3.1sfv.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
> On 2005-02-18, Jonah Falcon <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> They sort of foreshadowed in the Cave that you would be forced to choose
>> between Traya/Kreia and your friends, remember?
>
> Did you ever try not going with anyone? They all turn around and
> say "Apathy is death." I almost soiled my self from sheer
> terror. That was the creepiest scene since I first saw a Haunt in
> the Thief series.
>
>> I was never given a chance to accept or reject Traya/Kreia.
>
> Right, it was cut out from the end. I'm still mad at Obsidian for
> doing that. Evidently their developers spend more time in the
> NWN2 forums now and haven't posted once to their own KOTOR2
> forums since the games launch. I don't think we'll even see a
> proper patch get released.
>

I'm hoping Jade Empire will be complete. It is KOTOR moral choices on
steroids.

Jonah Falcon
!