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Finalizing a CD

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Anonymous
January 3, 2005 2:34:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

If a CD fails to FINALIZE is there anyway for a computer to complete
the index? I'm using a stand-alone Philips CD Recorder. The
finalization is failing.

Also, on Windows, how do I simply retrieve the raw data? Does hard
disk software work on CD ROMS?

More about : finalizing

January 3, 2005 9:48:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I had this happen when I tried multiple burning sessions for some .jpg
files, adding to the CD-R over a period of months. Each time I read the
CD all I saw was the last session. I assumed that when I finally
finalized the CD all would show up. WRONG ! I ended up using a program
called ISO Buster to read the files and transfer them back to my HD then
burned them all on to a CD at once selecting the finalize option before
burning.
Good luck.
JD

Tom Penharston wrote:

> If a CD fails to FINALIZE is there anyway for a computer to complete
> the index? I'm using a stand-alone Philips CD Recorder. The
> finalization is failing.
>
> Also, on Windows, how do I simply retrieve the raw data? Does hard
> disk software work on CD ROMS?
Anonymous
January 4, 2005 12:36:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Tom,

The outcome will depend on the kind of finalization failure you had. If
there is still a pre-TOC on the disc, then IsoBuster can recover the
data as one or more WAV files. If not, then you would have to force a
pre-TOC to be written, and then IsoBuster could read until it hits
unrecorded sectors, resulting in one big WAV file (which you could then
subdivide into tracks if you like).

I had what might be a similar situation this past summer when I was
making a series of recordings on CD-Rs on a Philips standalone recorder
(model CDR560). I was trying to use Maxell blanks, which I have since
learned is a no-no (according to Philips tech support). Because the
events that I was recording were more or less continuous, I had to
eject each disc as soon as it was full and go on to the next one
without finalizing. I assumed that I could go back later, re-insert
each disc and finalize it then--a procedure I had done a hundred times
before. But about half the discs failed OPC when I re-inserted them to
finalize them.

Fortunately the format of the "pre-TOC" (the temporary data structure
recorded on the disc which contains the track and index addresses) is
standardized and does not depend on which brand or model of recorder
you use. Another recorder, or a computer-based CD-R burner, could very
well read the existing pre-TOC on a disc and finalize it.

IsoBuster is great software--very useful for many cases of CD recovery.
But it requires a readable pre-TOC at least, or it won't attempt to
read anything from the sectors of a disc. So I had to fake it by
"burning" a four-second track at the beginning of each unreadable disc
but not closing or finalizing it. This allowed IsoBuster to access the
sectors of the disc--not only the initial four seconds but the entire
recorded portion of the disc. In that way I recovered all the audio
except for those initial four seconds per CD.
Related resources
Anonymous
January 5, 2005 12:58:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I had a similar problem on my Phillips C-R burner/copier. I got fixed
by removing the CD-R, thurning the machine off, then back on, and
re-inserting the disk. The CD-R version of the three finger salute.

On 3 Jan 2005 11:34:02 -0800, "Tom Penharston"
<thinkpersuasion@netscape.net> wrote:

>
>If a CD fails to FINALIZE is there anyway for a computer to complete
>the index? I'm using a stand-alone Philips CD Recorder. The
>finalization is failing.
>
>Also, on Windows, how do I simply retrieve the raw data? Does hard
>disk software work on CD ROMS?
>

Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 7:13:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David,

Your trick of burning a 4 second track without closing or finalizing
looks very promising. I don't have IsoBuster. Instead I'm using the
RTT R-Tools R-Studio demo software. The purchased version performed
very well in the past on one particular hard disk recovery. In this
case, R-Studio shows nothing on the CD. I'm wondering if your fake
would be enough to allow R-Studio to read the data. At this point it
would just be for track 1; I'm finally reading the other tracks.

Fortunately, I just tried a third computer and the TOC showed up. With
Roxio EZ CD Creator I'm simply extracting the tracks to 16 bit stereo
wav files. Track 1 will not extract but Tracks 2 through 12 are enough
to call this project a remarkable recovery.

My Philips CDR880 has its moments. For healthy, brand new TDK discs it
can take 4 or 5 tries to get past OPC fail. Once a disc starts
recording my success rate is about 98%.

Of note, blank TDK music disks on a black spindle will not pass the
optical test. Only the discs sold on a grey spindle seem to work on
the CDR880.

-Tom
January 6, 2005 9:56:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Another thing you can try on some machines like the CDR560, is to put a
"good" CD in the machine and let it read the TOC. Then carefully pry
the door open and swap CDs. The machine won't "know" that you chaned
CDs and will try toplay it per the TOC of the previous disc. If this
works, you can make up a CD with a one big track TOC so that you can
recover stuff off a CD without a TOC.

In the future, it may be usefull to "prime" the blanks by recording a 4
second track and letting the machine create the pre TOC and make sure
it works, then use these primed CDs for the "gig". If something goes
worng during the gig the pre TOC will already be on the CD.

This works even better form MD's where you can "format" the MD by
recording an entire 74 minute blank track and letting the machine write
the TOC for that before the gig. Then if you loose power or whatever
during the gig, the material can be recovered because the TOC has
already been written before hand.

Yeah, its a whole new set of problems to overcome in the digital era.
At least the audio is good if you can get it back. ;-)

Mark
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 4:45:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 4 Jan 2005 09:36:19 -0800, "David Satz" <DSatz@msn.com> wrote:

>Tom,

>...

>IsoBuster is great software--very useful for many cases of CD recovery.
>But it requires a readable pre-TOC at least, or it won't attempt to
>read anything from the sectors of a disc.

That's interesting, I didn't know that. I've used ISObuster in
cases where EAC wouldn't recognize the disc (power was lost to the CDR
recorder), but it did have more than one track on it.

>So I had to fake it by
>"burning" a four-second track at the beginning of each unreadable disc
>but not closing or finalizing it. This allowed IsoBuster to access the
>sectors of the disc--not only the initial four seconds but the entire
>recorded portion of the disc. In that way I recovered all the audio
>except for those initial four seconds per CD.

I don't like the idea of writing to a CDR that's (using traditional
methods) unreadable. Any recorded info it may have is already there,
and writing to the disc seems like risking writing over the data
that's already recorded. I'd much rather find something that will copy
what's there to hard disc where I can then read it in as a .wav or
worst-case "raw" data, then edit and save it as I like. I thought this
was what ISObuster did. Is there a program that does this?

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 4:00:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 6 Jan 2005 18:56:05 -0800, "Mark" <makolber@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Another thing you can try on some machines like the CDR560, is to put a
>"good" CD in the machine and let it read the TOC. Then carefully pry
>the door open and swap CDs. The machine won't "know" that you chaned
>CDs and will try toplay it per the TOC of the previous disc. If this
>works, you can make up a CD with a one big track TOC so that you can
>recover stuff off a CD without a TOC.

Unfortunately more recent Philips/Marantz CD recorders do no longer
support this trick, as it can be used to read the ATIP of a audio
CD and then insert a computer CD.

>This works even better form MD's where you can "format" the MD by
>recording an entire 74 minute blank track and letting the machine write
>the TOC for that before the gig. Then if you loose power or whatever
>during the gig, the material can be recovered because the TOC has
>already been written before hand.

Loosing power shouldn't be a big problem as (at least my Philips
CDR-770) has a power failure recovery procedure. When the power
is lost and returns do not eject the disk but enter the power
failure procedure. The recorder then tries to read the CD as far
it is readable and adds those tracks not yet present in the pre-TOC.
Actually, it adds a huge track. It had that happen only once and I
decided to immediately finalize the CD: Only the last 4 seconds of
the recording were lost.

Most of the time I have a DAT recorder connected in parallel to the
CD recorder as the loss on a tape is less than on CDr.

Did you get any error code when finalizing failed?
What happens when you insert the unfinalized CD again in the recorder?
Is it playable?
What message does the recorder show when you eject the CD again?

Norbert
!