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Baldur's Gate II or Icewind Dale compilation?

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Anonymous
February 23, 2005 12:21:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Just wondering which of these two games you guys would recommend?

I've been away from the Pc games market since Baldur's Gate I. Just got a
new computer and am looking at 5+ years of software.

This is what I like:

- Turn based fighting
- High replayability value.
- Heavy emphasis on level building

Before my Pentium 133 (32 mg ram) forced me out of the market I really
liked Baldurs gate and Diablo and HOMM3(sorry for the strategy props).

I'm considering both BG 2 and Icewind Dale, but I am curious about
Neverwinter Nights.

I've heard that Icewind Dale let's you build your entire party which
reminds of Bard's tale (the original which I loved).

I could (and have) read magazines and links, but I thought I would check
with the experts.

Nobody knows games, like gamers.

Cheers,

Kris
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 1:20:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Hawklan wrote:

> Just wondering which of these two games you guys would recommend?
>
> I've been away from the Pc games market since Baldur's Gate I. Just got a
> new computer and am looking at 5+ years of software.
>
> This is what I like:
>
> - Turn based fighting
> - High replayability value.
> - Heavy emphasis on level building
>
> Before my Pentium 133 (32 mg ram) forced me out of the market I really
> liked Baldurs gate and Diablo and HOMM3(sorry for the strategy props).
>
> I'm considering both BG 2 and Icewind Dale, but I am curious about
> Neverwinter Nights.
>
> I've heard that Icewind Dale let's you build your entire party which
> reminds of Bard's tale (the original which I loved).
>
> I could (and have) read magazines and links, but I thought I would check
> with the experts.
>
> Nobody knows games, like gamers.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kris
>
>
>
>

HoMM4 or 5. Really. I've been obsessively playing HoMM4 recently. Lots
of fighting and level building. Not only that, you can COMPLETELY ignore
the poorly written stories and just fight and explore.

I liked Icewind Dale 2 better than Icewind Dale. This comes from liking
the 3.0 rules better than the 2.x rules.

From what I hear, Temple of Elemental Evil is turn based. I have it on
my desk but I haven't played it yet.

Avoid the new Pool of Radiance. I played through it, but only because I
was home sick for a month. Otherwise, I would have had no patience for
such an extremely dull dungeon crawl.

CH
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 2:13:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Augustus wrote:
> First, can you even find a copy of Planescape Torment anywhere?
This
> game rarely ever even appears in the used games bin (maybe once a
year at my
> local EB, and even then its usually gone in a day). I thought MM9
was ok,
> but I liked MM6-8 better (but MM9 looked alot better)


http://search.ebay.com/planescape-torment_W0QQfkrZ1QQfr...

Seems to be available on ebay.
Related resources
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 2:15:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

I loved Homm3,

I've heard some pretty mixed reviews on Homm4 though. Frankly I agree, the
story really on set up the campaigns. The draw in the series was the city
building and combat options.

Outside of the series I know (diablo's,Homm, BG) I am a bit lost.

PS:T sounds just downright off the wall.

I mean the story sounds intriguing but what is the gameplay like? I like
the notion of having to solve mysteries/puzzles but I like a good dose of
hack and slash too! From what I've heard I'm not sure this game provides
much of the later(and I don't arcadie hack and slash(DOOM), I mean RPG
dungeon building)

And yes, I did miss Fallout 1 & 2. Please forgive my ignorance but when I
was playing games graphics cards were and option.

Cheers,

An excited gamer overwhelmed by years of good software - coming home.
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 2:32:38 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:21:52 -0500, "Hawklan"
<kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> wrote:

>Just wondering which of these two games you guys would recommend?

Baldur's Gate II is one of the very best CRPGs ever released. Only a
few rate higher. Alt.games.baldurs-gate is a newsgroup dedicated to
the BG games, and to a lesser extent, all of the infinity engine
games, including Icewind Dale.
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 3:13:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Hawklan wrote:
> Great that helps,
>
> Some posts have really talked up Planescape: Torment saying that the
story
> is quite good. Just wondering is it any good? I am kind of torn
between it
> and Might and Magic IX (a series I know and liked).
>
> Essentially I want to get one bird's eye view game and 1 traditional
3d
> perspective game.
>
> I think I'll give BG 2 a try though.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kris


The Baldurs Gate 2 compilation hands down. One of the best RPGS of all
time. Stay away from Might and Magic IX. I liked the series too
but it's very, very tired at this point.
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 5:47:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Baldur's Gate 2 is far superior to IWD (IMO) and with the Throne of Bhaal
expansion you can hit level 40. There is an enourmous wealth of mods out
there to add to your gaming experience - its easily the most in-depth and
huge RPG on the PC. IWD I didn't take to at all. NWN is a bit linear and
the storytelling is comparatively poor. The two expansion packs add a fair
amount to gameplay but you'll get the most out of it if you have a decent
net connection to play multiplayer - this is where it shines.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:21:52 -0500, Hawklan <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca>
wrote:

> Just wondering which of these two games you guys would recommend?
>
> I've been away from the Pc games market since Baldur's Gate I. Just got a
> new computer and am looking at 5+ years of software.
>
> This is what I like:
>
> - Turn based fighting
> - High replayability value.
> - Heavy emphasis on level building
>
> Before my Pentium 133 (32 mg ram) forced me out of the market I really
> liked Baldurs gate and Diablo and HOMM3(sorry for the strategy props).
>
> I'm considering both BG 2 and Icewind Dale, but I am curious about
> Neverwinter Nights.
>
> I've heard that Icewind Dale let's you build your entire party which
> reminds of Bard's tale (the original which I loved).
>
> I could (and have) read magazines and links, but I thought I would check
> with the experts.
>
> Nobody knows games, like gamers.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kris
>
>
>
>



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 5:47:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Great that helps,

Some posts have really talked up Planescape: Torment saying that the story
is quite good. Just wondering is it any good? I am kind of torn between it
and Might and Magic IX (a series I know and liked).

Essentially I want to get one bird's eye view game and 1 traditional 3d
perspective game.

I think I'll give BG 2 a try though.

Cheers,

Kris
February 23, 2005 5:47:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> wrote in message
news:6256ae0ce1f4f04afb5a12a054f9d719@localhost.talkaboutcomputing.com...
> Great that helps,
>
> Some posts have really talked up Planescape: Torment saying that the story
> is quite good. Just wondering is it any good? I am kind of torn between it
> and Might and Magic IX (a series I know and liked).
>
> Essentially I want to get one bird's eye view game and 1 traditional 3d
> perspective game.
>
> I think I'll give BG 2 a try though.

For the choice between BG2 and IWD games:
I'd say get them both... they're going to set you back something like
$10-15 each, no? So might as well get them both and just put one aside for
now or play them both at the same time.

For the choice between Planescape and MM9:
First, can you even find a copy of Planescape Torment anywhere? This
game rarely ever even appears in the used games bin (maybe once a year at my
local EB, and even then its usually gone in a day). I thought MM9 was ok,
but I liked MM6-8 better (but MM9 looked alot better)
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 5:47:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

For the choice between Planescape and MM9:
First, can you even find a copy of Planescape Torment anywhere? This
game rarely ever even appears in the used games bin (maybe once a year at
my
local EB, and even then its usually gone in a day). I thought MM9 was
ok,
but I liked MM6-8 better (but MM9 looked alot better)

Your right I've found Planescape hard to find!
I am interested as to why MM6-8 were better than MM9. Please keep in mind
the last one I played was World of Xeen (I think that was IV & V).

I've heard people say that MM6 & 7 were better than 9 but I can't figure
out why. I mean that is a lot of unused technology if MM9 could not outdo
its predecessors. Although in many ways MM1 was better than IV & V.

In the end with games this old, I may just scoop up what I can at EB. But
I know I can get BG2 with the new compendium.

Thanks,
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 5:47:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Hawklan wrote:

>
> PS:T sounds just downright off the wall.
>
> I mean the story sounds intriguing but what is the gameplay like? I like
> the notion of having to solve mysteries/puzzles but I like a good dose of
> hack and slash too! From what I've heard I'm not sure this game provides
> much of the later(and I don't arcadie hack and slash(DOOM), I mean RPG
> dungeon building)
>
>

Lots of people adore this one. I hated it. It bored me. I hated
recursively going back through all the conversation trees looking for a
new conversation tree that may have come up. The story that I did find
was dreadfully dull, and seemed more like dredging than discovery. I
ended up reading the faq, and finding that I failed to find about 1/3 of
the game, even after I looked for hours.

But don't let that put you off. My opinion <> truth.

CH
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 5:48:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Augustus wrote:


>
> For the choice between Planescape and MM9:
> First, can you even find a copy of Planescape Torment anywhere? This
> game rarely ever even appears in the used games bin (maybe once a year at my
> local EB, and even then its usually gone in a day). I thought MM9 was ok,
> but I liked MM6-8 better (but MM9 looked alot better)
>
>
>

I always enjoyed the MM series. They're the "beer and pretzles" RPG.
Don't think to hard. Kill stuff. Level up. Have a beer.

:) 

CH
February 23, 2005 6:05:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> wrote in message
news:8df84ced5a72c13788b741abe36f6361@localhost.talkaboutcomputing.com...
> For the choice between Planescape and MM9:
> First, can you even find a copy of Planescape Torment anywhere? This
> game rarely ever even appears in the used games bin (maybe once a year at
> my
> local EB, and even then its usually gone in a day). I thought MM9 was
> ok,
> but I liked MM6-8 better (but MM9 looked alot better)
>
> Your right I've found Planescape hard to find!
> I am interested as to why MM6-8 were better than MM9. Please keep in mind
> the last one I played was World of Xeen (I think that was IV & V).
>
> I've heard people say that MM6 & 7 were better than 9 but I can't figure
> out why. I mean that is a lot of unused technology if MM9 could not outdo
> its predecessors. Although in many ways MM1 was better than IV & V.

I never played MM1... so I can't say if MM2 was the same as MM1 or not...

MM3-5 were effectivly the same game engine, with a few minor changes between
MM3 and MM4/5.

MM6 and 7 were pretty much the same game but with different settings. There
were a few changes here and there to the system and probably the big
difference between the two was MM6 used "MEGA Dungeons" (every dungeon was
pretty much colossal in size and each was like an entire adventure in itself
to explore) while MM7 instead used ALOT of tiny dungeons.

MM8 was almost the same as MM6 and 7... it had the same sort of graphical
look and feel (although better graphics in some places) than MM6 and 7, but
was almost the same game other than that (a few tweaks to the system and the
party became more like NPCs you swapped in and out of the party)

When it came to MM9, the game was graphically more appealing, but that was
about it... the system had quite a few bugs in it and the system changes
weren't really big improvements.

This is probably what led to the eventual downfall of the series... in that
the games rarely ever seemed to change or get better in time. They would
get a new engine and use it for a few years so that by the time the final
game came out it looked quite abit out of date (If MM8 came out when MM6 was
new it would have been heralded as a landmark game of the era... but instead
it looked old and cartoony compared to what other companies were putting
out)

Personally I had a good time playing through MM9... I was just saying that
alot of other people didn't like it and generally the game didn't rate too
well amongst gamers.
February 23, 2005 6:20:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> I think I'll give BG 2 a try though.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kris


I had fun playing through bg2. some of the fights got a little tough though.
I got stuck on the expansion and just uninstalled the game.

I would suggest torment over everything
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 6:26:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:04:32 -0500, "Hawklan"
<kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> wrote:

>Great that helps,
>
>Some posts have really talked up Planescape: Torment saying that the story
>is quite good. Just wondering is it any good? I am kind of torn between it
>and Might and Magic IX (a series I know and liked).
>
>Essentially I want to get one bird's eye view game and 1 traditional 3d
>perspective game.
>
>I think I'll give BG 2 a try though.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Kris

did you miss out on Fallout 2?

if so, that's another one to add to the pile.
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 9:40:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article <bcf9b76ccfb48977182030b756ee25fb@localhost.talkaboutcomputing.com>, Hawklan wrote:
> Just wondering which of these two games you guys would recommend?
>
> I've been away from the Pc games market since Baldur's Gate I. Just got a
> new computer and am looking at 5+ years of software.
>
> This is what I like:
>
> - Turn based fighting

Well that leaves out both of your options, sadly. Icewind Dale
and Baldur's Gate are both hit-the-space-bar-over-and-over based.

> - High replayability value.
> - Heavy emphasis on level building

They've both got those covered.

> Before my Pentium 133 (32 mg ram) forced me out of the market I
> really liked Baldurs gate and Diablo and HOMM3(sorry for the
> strategy props).
>
> I'm considering both BG 2 and Icewind Dale, but I am curious
> about Neverwinter Nights.
>
> I've heard that Icewind Dale let's you build your entire party
> which reminds of Bard's tale (the original which I loved).
>
> I could (and have) read magazines and links, but I thought I
> would check with the experts.
>
> Nobody knows games, like gamers.

Given your love of Bard's Tale, et al, I highly recommend you
check out Wizardry 8. You'll have to hope it has not bugs with
your current video card (some people have had problems) but it's
an awesome party-based, turn-based, old-skul RPG.

--
Neil Cerutti
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 9:40:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Actually W8 was the last game I got to work on my old system.

I loved it at first but after playing it about halfway through I got bored
(I prefer the medieval period and when the sci-fi storyline played a
bigger role I abandoned ship, that it was running pretty slowly)

Your right of course, BG1 & 2 aren't really true turn-based. Although I
don't mind the spacebar compromise.

I was hoping to find a new series that would rival Black Isle but it looks
like until ES:o blivion comes out I'll just catch up with BG2.


Thanks to all of you who gave me some good advice regarding worthwhile
titles that have come out since 1997(I know there are countless more, but
I've got to stop talking and start playing). I was leaning towards ID 2
but I'll play it safe with the tried and true BG2.

Thanks,

Kris
February 23, 2005 10:14:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Neil Cerutti" <neil.cerutti@tds.net> wrote in message
news:38410iF5jgrl4U1@individual.net...

> Well that leaves out both of your options, sadly. Icewind Dale
> and Baldur's Gate are both hit-the-space-bar-over-and-over based.

you can set BG2 to pause at various times, including "end of turn", making
it prettymuch turn-based.
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 10:15:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> I liked Icewind Dale 2 better than Icewind Dale. This comes from liking
> the 3.0 rules better than the 2.x rules.
>
And I liked ID better than ID2. But I liked Bg2 better than both. I played
ID finished in two mounts, but used half of the year in Bg2. And really
enjoyed myself. Bernt E
February 23, 2005 10:27:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> wrote in message
news:bcf9b76ccfb48977182030b756ee25fb@localhost.talkaboutcomputing.com...
> Just wondering which of these two games you guys would recommend?
>
> I've been away from the Pc games market since Baldur's Gate I. Just got a
> new computer and am looking at 5+ years of software.
>
> This is what I like:
>
> - Turn based fighting


BG2 and IWD are both real-time with a pause feature. You can pause and give
orders at any time, making it better than turn-based (imho). You can also
set the game to pause after each round.


> - High replayability value.


BG2 has scores of NPC's and optional quests. In fact, you'll need to play it
a few times to see everything. Once you play IWD, well, that's about it.


> - Heavy emphasis on level building


Both games have this is spades.


>
> Before my Pentium 133 (32 mg ram) forced me out of the market I really
> liked Baldurs gate and Diablo and HOMM3(sorry for the strategy props).
>
> I'm considering both BG 2 and Icewind Dale, but I am curious about
> Neverwinter Nights.


IMHO, NWN is ok, but doesn't compare to BG2.


>
> I've heard that Icewind Dale let's you build your entire party which
> reminds of Bard's tale (the original which I loved).

IWD does let you build your entire party, but the downside is, they have no
personality whatsoever. Where BG2 has plenty of NPC's (enough to satisfy any
party mixture you can think of) with loads of personality. NPC's will argue,
fight, fall in love with your PC, have their own quests, etc etc.

The NPC's make BG2 the best game ever, imho. I'm playing it now for what
must be the tenth time.
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 10:27:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

JWB wrote:

>
>
> IWD does let you build your entire party, but the downside is, they have no
> personality whatsoever. Where BG2 has plenty of NPC's (enough to satisfy any
> party mixture you can think of) with loads of personality. NPC's will argue,
> fight, fall in love with your PC, have their own quests, etc etc.
>
> The NPC's make BG2 the best game ever, imho. I'm playing it now for what
> must be the tenth time.
>
>

NPC's with personality is a big turn-off for me. I've always had fun
inventing my own personalities for my characters. I don't like it when
the game designers do it for me. Needless to say, I found BG irksom, and
BG2 more so.

CH
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 11:09:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Clawhound wrote:
> JWB wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> IWD does let you build your entire party, but the downside is, they
>> have no personality whatsoever. Where BG2 has plenty of NPC's
>> (enough to satisfy any party mixture you can think of) with loads of
>> personality. NPC's will argue, fight, fall in love with your PC,
>> have their own quests, etc etc.
>>
>> The NPC's make BG2 the best game ever, imho. I'm playing it now for
>> what must be the tenth time.
>>
>>
>
> NPC's with personality is a big turn-off for me. I've always had fun
> inventing my own personalities for my characters. I don't like it when
> the game designers do it for me. Needless to say, I found BG irksom,
> and BG2 more so.

Given that it's incredibly easy to run a full built-from-scratch customised
party in either of them, that seems like a rather weak objection.

--
Mark.
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 11:19:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article
<6dda3b98baf0c1bba5d499aef53fa2ac@localhost.talkaboutcomputing.com>,
Hawklan wrote:
> Actually W8 was the last game I got to work on my old system.
>
> I loved it at first but after playing it about halfway through
> I got bored (I prefer the medieval period and when the sci-fi
> storyline played a bigger role I abandoned ship, that it was
> running pretty slowly)

I didn't mind the setting at all, since your own characters
can be considered complete outsiders from entirely different
realms.

Two of my favorite parties were: a copy of the sample party from
Bard's Tale, including Brian the Fist, El Cid, et al (I
originally completed it with the sample party minus the useless
thief plus a Monk); and an approximation of six of the main
recruitable NPCs from Ultima 4, including Shamino, Dupre, etc.

Those without brain damage might not have found those things fun,
though.

I don't recommend plowing through Wizardry 8 with your first
party. Designing and building new party concepts was what
eventually hooked me on the game, although the first few reboots
were required 'cause I was so gimp.

--
Neil Cerutti
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 11:32:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly "Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> Spake Unto All:

>Great that helps,
>
>Some posts have really talked up Planescape: Torment saying that the story
>is quite good. Just wondering is it any good?

It is very, very, good. It is however a very unorthodox rpg, with a
lot of story, so it's not to everyones tastes. Me, I love it, and
occasionally accuse it of being art.

Today the graphics are of course quite dated.

>I am kind of torn between it
>and Might and Magic IX (a series I know and liked).

I saw it but never played it - AFAIK it was pretty universally panned.

>Essentially I want to get one bird's eye view game and 1 traditional 3d
>perspective game.
>
>I think I'll give BG 2 a try though.

A good game too; for me it's not as good as Planescape, Fallout2, and
Gothic2, but not at all bad. Many hold it in very high regard.

If you're a hardcore RPG'er who play for the interesting worlds and
interaction, I'd suggest PS:T and Gothic2 (which, btw, has nothing at
all to do with gothic-the-subculture).

If you want good but more conventional RPG's, then my advice would be
Knights of the Old Republic and Baldurs Gate 2.

All of them are outstanding games.

If you want something that is a quick blast to play coop with friends,
then Diablo2 would be my suggestion, it's shallow but really very fun.
Perhaps also Neverwinter Nights (me, I hated neverwinter nights but I
never tried coop or any of the user made mods).

Finally there's Morrowind. It's another unorthodox rpg, in that it's
open-ended: it doesn't really have a story, or an end - it's basically
just a big game-world to explore. I was fascinated by Morrowind for
about two months, before I started to feel that the world was dead and
static. Still, two months fascination isn't bad for a game, and some
don't seem to ever grow tired of it.

>Kris

--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 11:51:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly "Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> Spake Unto All:

>PS:T sounds just downright off the wall.

It is. Very different game. There is actually a learning curve,
because the normal assumptions about how to play RPG's don't hold.
There is no need to powerplay or be tactical in PS:T; my advice is to
role-play it, and make your choices based on what you feel is right.

>I mean the story sounds intriguing but what is the gameplay like? I like
>the notion of having to solve mysteries/puzzles but I like a good dose of
>hack and slash too! From what I've heard I'm not sure this game provides
>much of the later(and I don't arcadie hack and slash(DOOM), I mean RPG
>dungeon building)

Weeeeell.... There is a fair bit of combat, and it's actually not bad,
but the meat of the game is interaction and the story. It's about a
bunch of broken existences banding together, united by guilt and
remorse; the theme is suffering and atonement - but also forgiveness,
and like all good tragedies it's also uplifting.

Hey, I told you it was art.

>An excited gamer overwhelmed by years of good software - coming home.

Well, you have some very good games ahead of you.


--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 12:03:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Augustus wrote:
> For the choice between Planescape and MM9:
> First, can you even find a copy of Planescape Torment anywhere? This
> game rarely ever even appears in the used games bin (maybe once a year at my
> local EB, and even then its usually gone in a day). I thought MM9 was ok,
> but I liked MM6-8 better (but MM9 looked alot better)
>

Last year Best Buy was selling it in a small, jewel case sized
box, packaged together with Soulbringer.
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 12:03:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:03:40 GMT, mrlg <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

>Augustus wrote:
>> For the choice between Planescape and MM9:
>> First, can you even find a copy of Planescape Torment anywhere? This
>> game rarely ever even appears in the used games bin (maybe once a year at my
>> local EB, and even then its usually gone in a day). I thought MM9 was ok,
>> but I liked MM6-8 better (but MM9 looked alot better)
>>
>
>Last year Best Buy was selling it in a small, jewel case sized
>box, packaged together with Soulbringer.

I just picked up that package (PS:T & Soulbringer) for $1.99 from
gogamer.com it's not a bit more expensive (it was a special) but i
think they astill have some.
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 4:39:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> once tried to test me with:

> For the choice between Planescape and MM9:
> First, can you even find a copy of Planescape Torment anywhere? This
> game rarely ever even appears in the used games bin (maybe once a year at
> my
> local EB, and even then its usually gone in a day). I thought MM9 was
> ok,
> but I liked MM6-8 better (but MM9 looked alot better)
>
> Your right I've found Planescape hard to find!

I have a copy for trade. Also have Fallout 1 & 2 and Icewind Dale 2.
And Deus Ex 2.

> I am interested as to why MM6-8 were better than MM9. Please keep in mind
> the last one I played was World of Xeen (I think that was IV & V).

MM6 was pretty good it was just way, and I mean WAY too frickin' long with
dungeons that went on FOR E VER. I never finished it.

MM7 is just about the right size and improved a lot of things that were
quirky about MM6. It's pretty much the height of the MM series IMHO. Even
though I still have a soft spot for MM4/5 and I love them more.

MM8 was just like MM7 except that you played the "dark side" ie. dark
elves, dragons (yeah, dragon), etc. It was actually a pretty damn good
game, but the graphics were severely dated when it came out and not many
people got it.

> I've heard people say that MM6 & 7 were better than 9 but I can't figure
> out why. I mean that is a lot of unused technology if MM9 could not outdo
> its predecessors. Although in many ways MM1 was better than IV & V.

Well they really truely "dumbed down" MM9 and a lot of hardcore fans didn't
appreciate that much. Also the graphics engine was not all that well suited
for an RPG. But those were minor problems. The big problem is they released
it before it was ready and it had a lot of bugs. Killer bugs. Game killing
bugs. And so it got a lot of bad word of mouth from people who got stuck
and had to restart major portions of the game because of some bug. I don't
think all of it ever got fixed, but most of the bugs are known and so you
can avoid them if you read up ahead of time what not to do.

> In the end with games this old, I may just scoop up what I can at EB. But
> I know I can get BG2 with the new compendium.

No one has yet mentioned Gothic. I highly recommend it. Gothic 2 is also
pretty cool so far but I'm early into it. I am sure someone will also chime
in for Morrowind but I didn't care for it too much.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 4:43:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Clawhound <none@nowhere.com> once tried to test me with:

> HoMM4 or 5. Really. I've been obsessively playing HoMM4 recently. Lots
> of fighting and level building. Not only that, you can COMPLETELY ignore
> the poorly written stories and just fight and explore.

HoMM 5?? When did that come out?

I knew about HoMM4. I thought it was pretty fun but a lot of people hated
it because it had pretty bad AI. They did come out with a lot of expansions
for it though. And the graphics are very nice for a strategy title.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 4:47:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> once tried to test me with:

> I loved Homm3,
>
> I've heard some pretty mixed reviews on Homm4 though. Frankly I agree,
> the story really on set up the campaigns. The draw in the series was
> the city building and combat options.
>
> Outside of the series I know (diablo's,Homm, BG) I am a bit lost.
>
> PS:T sounds just downright off the wall.

It is highly original.

> I mean the story sounds intriguing but what is the gameplay like? I
> like the notion of having to solve mysteries/puzzles but I like a good
> dose of hack and slash too! From what I've heard I'm not sure this
> game provides much of the later(and I don't arcadie hack and
> slash(DOOM), I mean RPG dungeon building)

There's definitely combat in Planescape Torment but it's not the ONLY thing
like 99% of the rest of the RPGs out there. There's actually a great story
there, and you can make MEANINGFUL choices that affect the outcome. But
yeah, you do need to kill some things that get in your way. I'd say it's
maybe 50% combat, 50% story.

> And yes, I did miss Fallout 1 & 2. Please forgive my ignorance but
> when I was playing games graphics cards were and option.

OMG. You missed 2 of the greatest RPGs ever. They are still great games, by
the way. If you like turn-based combat, I recommend them. Graphics will be
a bit dated but IMHO they're still cool, esp all the death-scenes.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 12:02:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Mark Blunden wrote:

> Clawhound wrote:
>
>>JWB wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>IWD does let you build your entire party, but the downside is, they
>>>have no personality whatsoever. Where BG2 has plenty of NPC's
>>>(enough to satisfy any party mixture you can think of) with loads of
>>>personality. NPC's will argue, fight, fall in love with your PC,
>>>have their own quests, etc etc.
>>>
>>>The NPC's make BG2 the best game ever, imho. I'm playing it now for
>>>what must be the tenth time.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>NPC's with personality is a big turn-off for me. I've always had fun
>>inventing my own personalities for my characters. I don't like it when
>>the game designers do it for me. Needless to say, I found BG irksom,
>>and BG2 more so.
>
>
> Given that it's incredibly easy to run a full built-from-scratch customised
> party in either of them, that seems like a rather weak objection.
>

I never said it was a strong objection. Irksom = weak objection.

There's a trick to running one player parties in the game. I was not
aware of this trick when I played it. I stay away from guides and faqs
as I play games, as I prefer to discover them for myself.

CH
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 12:05:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

I hear you!

When you say conversation trees I think of that damned journal from
Morrowind and cringe. Almost ruined a very good game for me(played xbox
version).
I don't know if the analogy fits, but if it does, hugh!
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 12:08:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Knight37 wrote:


>
> For the best, state-of-the-art party-based turn-based game, I'd go with
> Wizardry 8, it was a damn good "old school" RPG. Combats can take a really
> long time in it which drove some people away. Also it was hard. But you can
> download a patch/utility thingy to speed up the combats.
>

Ah, yes. That was a game. I remember fighting four groups of juggernauts
in a row, wedged into a crack in the terrain, in order to survive.

Once you learn HOW to fight in this game, you can rock through it. Until
then, you'll get clobbered.

Yeah, I'd recommend W8.

Also in that genre, Wizards and Warriors. There's mixed reviews on this
one, but I had fun with it, which is all that I really ask for.

CH
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 12:08:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Knight37 wrote:

> Clawhound <none@nowhere.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>
>>HoMM4 or 5. Really. I've been obsessively playing HoMM4 recently. Lots
>>of fighting and level building. Not only that, you can COMPLETELY ignore
>>the poorly written stories and just fight and explore.
>
>
> HoMM 5?? When did that come out?
>
> I knew about HoMM4. I thought it was pretty fun but a lot of people hated
> it because it had pretty bad AI. They did come out with a lot of expansions
> for it though. And the graphics are very nice for a strategy title.
>

HoMM5 was a brain fart. There is no HoMM5.

CH
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 12:09:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Knight37 wrote:


>
>
> OMG. You missed 2 of the greatest RPGs ever. They are still great games, by
> the way. If you like turn-based combat, I recommend them. Graphics will be
> a bit dated but IMHO they're still cool, esp all the death-scenes.
>

Very similar to the Fallouts is Arcanum.

CH
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 12:10:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Please refer back to me original post,

i.e. I have been out of the market for almost ten years. Any graphics
above EGA are outstanding.

No offense was intended to any particular games, in fact the comment was a
parody on the scale of games I have missed.

Also, It was a bit of a dig at graphic requirements that kept me from
playing all these years:p 
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 12:16:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Hey Neil,

Thanks for the advice, after your recommendation I checked the Wiz 8
website and realized what I had actually played was Wiz Gold (DSavant).

I really used to love that series and WG was good, I endured the Umpani
and T'Rang's technology but when the plot got sci-fi I lost interest.

On the site W8 shows those races again, is this another sci-fi plot.
Please no guns and swords in the same game - this isn't and arcade game.
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 12:27:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Wow gets a lot of talk,

I played Starcraft & Warcraft, is Wow the same style of game in a DND
setting. Some descriptions make it sound defferent from those titles(other
than being a MMORPG).

Is it a bird's eye view strategy game or a character based world like
Ultima online?

Cheers
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 7:14:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article <590c426472b8b7d2ae68a995576a0fae@localhost.talkaboutcomputing.com>, Hawklan wrote:
> Hey Neil,
>
> Thanks for the advice, after your recommendation I checked the
> Wiz 8 website and realized what I had actually played was Wiz
> Gold (DSavant).
>
> I really used to love that series and WG was good, I endured
> the Umpani and T'Rang's technology but when the plot got sci-fi
> I lost interest.
>
> On the site W8 shows those races again, is this another sci-fi
> plot. Please no guns and swords in the same game - this isn't
> and arcade game.

I'm afraid it *is* guns and swords. If you're the sort that
doesn't like amalgamated genres, then I guess you'll have to
regretfully skip it.

On the other hand, as I said, your own characters do not have to
actually *use* anything but swords and sorcery. The only sci-fi
based character class is Gadgeteer (a very good but annoying as
hell class anyway). You can even imagine that they hate and/or
distrust all the sci-fi trappings as much as you do.

The Umpani, Trang and Mook are present on Dominus, but they are
basically alien invaders. The world itself is standard fantasy
RPG fair. You can murder every single alien and still win the
game, and it sounds like you might like to do that.

So I think there's a chance you might like it despite the sci-fi
elements.

The game can seem impossibly hard at times. Read the non-spoiler
forums for it.

--
Neil Cerutti
It will work out, somehow. That's a hell of a duo right there,
Marbury, Crawford and Houston. --Carmelo Anthony
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 3:29:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Clawhound <none@nowhere.com> once tried to test me with:

> There's a trick to running one player parties in the game. I was not
> aware of this trick when I played it. I stay away from guides and faqs
> as I play games, as I prefer to discover them for myself.

It's not really a hard trick. I figured it out without a guide or faq or
usenet. :) 

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 3:33:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> once tried to test me with:

> I really used to love that series and WG was good, I endured the Umpani
> and T'Rang's technology but when the plot got sci-fi I lost interest.
>
> On the site W8 shows those races again, is this another sci-fi plot.
> Please no guns and swords in the same game - this isn't and arcade game.

The Wizardry series has had scifi stuff for quite a while.

Also the Might & Magic series has it.

That doesn't make it arcade. :) 

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 3:40:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> once tried to test me with:

> Wow gets a lot of talk,
>
> I played Starcraft & Warcraft, is Wow the same style of game in a DND
> setting. Some descriptions make it sound defferent from those
> titles(other than being a MMORPG).
> Is it a bird's eye view strategy game or a character based world like
> Ultima online?

WoW is not a real-time strategy game like Starcraft and Warcraft. What WoW
is is a massively multiplayer RPG game set in the Warcraft universe
(particularly, the Warcraft III universe). You have a character and the
default camera view is positioned behind the character for a "third person
view" (you can see what your character sees and you see the back of your
character as he/she runs around). You can play in first person view if you
want but it's kind of hard to tell what's going on sometimes since you have
no peripheral vision in that mode. You can easily switch in and out of
first/third person or change how far back the camera is, etc.

The game is basically a monster-smashing, stat-building game. You run
around and do quests (which are quite interesting) and you get experience
for doing them and you also usually have to kill something to accomplish
your goals and that gives some experience too. As you gain XP, you go up in
levels and your get stronger. You can find equipment to outfit your
character which can improve your abilities. You learn new skills at every
level (which you have to be taught, by a trainer, who you have to pay). You
can also do "tradeskills" which is like crafting items or gathering
resources for crafters or doing first aid or cooking or whatever. You can
also of course, and this is the best part, participate with other players
online. That's the real fun of it. If you've never played Everquest or a
game like EQ then I highly recommend trying World of Warcraft, it's
amazingly addictive.


--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 9:07:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

If I'm still on time for a suggestion:
Between BG2 and IWD... BG2 hands down
If you can get Planescape Torment, get it
Instead of MM9, I would get Wiz 8 instead, played both and Wiz8 is a
MUCH better game
Neverwinter Nights, if you're planning on playing alone, forget this
one, get BG2 better. If you want to try playing with others, then this
is a good choice
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 4:43:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Hawklan wrote:
> Hey Neil,
>
> Thanks for the advice, after your recommendation I checked the Wiz 8
> website and realized what I had actually played was Wiz Gold (DSavant).
>
> I really used to love that series and WG was good, I endured the Umpani
> and T'Rang's technology but when the plot got sci-fi I lost interest.
>
> On the site W8 shows those races again, is this another sci-fi plot.
> Please no guns and swords in the same game - this isn't and arcade game.
>
Yes, there are guns and other SF elements as well as swords, magic
and other fantasy elements in this game.

Apart from that, I think there needs to be a counterpoint to the praises
of W8: for me, it was a rather boring game with a token attempt at
storytelling that was made completely meaningless by the ridiculous
amount of combat and the overcomplicated skill system.

Werner
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 6:00:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Hawklan wrote:

> Hey Neil,
>
> Thanks for the advice, after your recommendation I checked the Wiz 8
> website and realized what I had actually played was Wiz Gold (DSavant).
>
> I really used to love that series and WG was good, I endured the Umpani
> and T'Rang's technology but when the plot got sci-fi I lost interest.
>
> On the site W8 shows those races again, is this another sci-fi plot.
> Please no guns and swords in the same game - this isn't and arcade game.
>

There are guns and swords, but it's more toned down. There's also a
class called a Gadgeteer. This time around, you'll run into bits of
technology earlier, but they won't dominate as strongly.

If you don't want that, don't play the game. No one will be offended.

CH
!