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Confessions of an EVE Online Scammer

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Anonymous
March 1, 2005 3:31:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

This is an excellent read, by an excellent writer, who just so happens to
also be a scumbag.

http://static.circa1984.com/the-big-scam.html

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 3:31:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns960BBC76A6819knight37m@130.133.1.4...
> This is an excellent read, by an excellent writer, who just so happens to
> also be a scumbag.
>
> http://static.circa1984.com/the-big-scam.html
>
> --
>
> Knight37
>
> The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

I though all excellent writers were scumbags.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 3:31:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Excellent read. =)
Related resources
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 5:48:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Grackle" <nowhere@lalaland.ca> once tried to test me with:

> "Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns960BBC76A6819knight37m@130.133.1.4...
>> This is an excellent read, by an excellent writer, who just so
>> happens to also be a scumbag.
>>
>> http://static.circa1984.com/the-big-scam.html
>>
>> --
>>
>> Knight37
>>
>> The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
>
> I though all excellent writers were scumbags.

Just the ones who write pr0n.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 7:44:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> Excellent read. =)

Fiction always is (well most of the time). There is things in his story that
doesnt add up, things that people that been playing EVE for a good while
would spot ;-)
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 8:27:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Erland Andreassen" <wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> once tried to test me
with:

>
>> Excellent read. =)
>
> Fiction always is (well most of the time). There is things in his
> story that doesnt add up, things that people that been playing EVE for
> a good while would spot ;-)

Like what things?

It sounded to me like EVE would be a griefer's paradise from reading his
story.

But these idiots he scammed truely were moronic.

I mean, why not demand to at least meet the investors and the other members
of his corporation IN THE GAME?

I'd be surprised anyone is really that stupid. Ok wait, what am I thinking?
People sent money to Jim Baker. AFTER he got caught!


--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 6:24:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> Like what things?

Like fire missiles from a ship that doesnt have any launcher hardpoints,
thus no ability to actually fire missiles. Just a small thing, but still ;-)
And they dont actually remove characters from the game world unless they get
DELETED by the user, and none of the names in the story actually can be
found in the game. The scam described I never read about on the EVE forums
and I been playing EVE since like forever. When major scams happen it goes
onto the forums and explode in big threads per usual.

> It sounded to me like EVE would be a griefer's paradise from reading his
> story.

People that fall victim to their own greed isnt griefing. EVE is divided up
in security sectors, and you decide yourself how safe you want to be. The
economics is player driven and you decide yourself whether you buy things
and at what prices. Getting killed in a low security sector isnt griefing
its PVP, and you knew the risk enter such a low sec sector.

As with most online games there is scammers of some degree, but it all comes
down to a players greed and how blue eyed he/she is. Social engineering
plays a high factor with any scams.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 6:24:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Erland Andreassen wrote:

>>Like what things?
>
>
> Like fire missiles from a ship that doesnt have any launcher hardpoints,
> thus no ability to actually fire missiles. Just a small thing, but still ;-)
> And they dont actually remove characters from the game world unless they get
> DELETED by the user, and none of the names in the story actually can be
> found in the game. The scam described I never read about on the EVE forums
> and I been playing EVE since like forever. When major scams happen it goes
> onto the forums and explode in big threads per usual.
>
>
>>It sounded to me like EVE would be a griefer's paradise from reading his
>>story.
>
>
> People that fall victim to their own greed isnt griefing. EVE is divided up
> in security sectors, and you decide yourself how safe you want to be. The
> economics is player driven and you decide yourself whether you buy things
> and at what prices. Getting killed in a low security sector isnt griefing
> its PVP, and you knew the risk enter such a low sec sector.
>
> As with most online games there is scammers of some degree, but it all comes
> down to a players greed and how blue eyed he/she is. Social engineering
> plays a high factor with any scams.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like EVE is just Trade Wars for
2005???
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 7:15:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns960BBC76A6819knight37m@130.133.1.4...
> This is an excellent read, by an excellent writer, who just so happens to
> also be a scumbag.
>
> http://static.circa1984.com/the-big-scam.html
>
> --
>
> Knight37
>
> The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

This was posted here several months ago, it's originally from the Something
Awful forums if memory serves. My impression of it then was that it was
loosely based on something the author briefly fantasized about doing.
There's little doubt in my mind that it's embellished substantially, and the
actual scam is probably invented entirely. There is no hard eveidence or
corroborating accounts of any of the more dramatic elements of it, nor of
any real scam whatsoever. And parts of the story ring hollow. The library
thing, for instance, is 100% unbelievable (a library with a phone sitting
around that has a dedicated number rather than an extension?). The ending
feels more like a literary device than realistic as well. In real life any
non-sociopath would have felt a strong urge to give the money back (since he
had no use for it), but that wouldn't have made a good ending to the story,
so he gives it to some random player instead.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 11:07:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like EVE is just Trade Wars for
> 2005???

Dont know what trade wars is. Check www.eve-online.com for info about EVE.
Trade is just a small part of EVE. Biggest part is player interaction and
PVP. But if you dont like PVP you can do PVE and trade and other professions
as well.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 11:07:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Erland Andreassen wrote:
>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like EVE is just Trade Wars for
>>2005???
>
>
> Dont know what trade wars is. Check www.eve-online.com for info about EVE.
> Trade is just a small part of EVE. Biggest part is player interaction and
> PVP. But if you dont like PVP you can do PVE and trade and other professions
> as well.

Tradewars (http://www.eisonline.com/TradeWars/) is an old BBS game that
was quite fun (and semi-graphical...sorta...ok...not really). You
traded, took over planets, mined, fought enemies, and could become a
Star Fleet Captian or a high ranking pirate! It was quite fun and it
have PVP and PVE elements as well and some pretty fleshed out (for the
time) game play mechanics.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 11:07:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Erland Andreassen wrote:

>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like EVE is just Trade Wars for
>>2005???
>
>
> Dont know what trade wars is. Check www.eve-online.com for info about EVE.
> Trade is just a small part of EVE. Biggest part is player interaction and
> PVP. But if you dont like PVP you can do PVE and trade and other professions
> as well.

Having looked at the uber cool screen shots. What would you folks rate
EVE? It looks and sounds cool, but how does it play? How does it
compare to other online games?
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 11:17:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article <k33Vd.206$ai7.4186@news2.e.nsc.no>, Erland Andreassen wrote:
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like EVE is just Trade
>> Wars for 2005???
>
> Dont know what trade wars is. Check www.eve-online.com for info
> about EVE. Trade is just a small part of EVE. Biggest part is
> player interaction and PVP. But if you dont like PVP you can do
> PVE and trade and other professions as well.

Hook me UP for the 2 hour travel sessions, and especially the
watching little pebbles float to my ship.

Oh! And the part about getting up at 6:30 AM so that it's
possible to make a profit.

Yes!

Of course, that could all be bull. Still, I enjoyed the little
creep's story.

--
Neil Cerutti
Not only is he ambidextrous, he can throw with either hand.
--Duff Daugherty
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 11:23:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

James Garvin <jgarvin2004@comcast.net> writes:
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like EVE is just Trade Wars for
>2005???

You'd like to think so. But it's not. The trading mechanics, especially
with regard supply and demand, are primitive compared to Tradewars, and
combat (at least when I was playing it, 6 months after release) was
insanely short (ships were commonly destroyed before their computer had
even loaded the area where the stargate was, which was exceedingly lame).
Plus, in Tradewars, generally there were less annoying idiots and you
could always find another game if you found the old one getting full of
annoying people. I could go on for a while with why I was disappointed
in Eve after making the same assumption you did, but unless things have
changed dramatically, it's just not worth 15 bucks a month.

--
Chas Blackwell <Black Isis> CITES Systems Management Group
<cblkwell@uiuc.edu>
I don't even know what CITES stands
for, so I don't speak for them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"As we were forged we shall return, perhaps some day. | VNV Nation,
I will remember you and wonder who we were." | "Further"
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 11:55:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>"Erland Andreassen" <wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> once tried to test me
>with:
>
>>
>>> Excellent read. =)
>>
>> Fiction always is (well most of the time). There is things in his
>> story that doesnt add up, things that people that been playing EVE for
>> a good while would spot ;-)
>
>Like what things?
>
>It sounded to me like EVE would be a griefer's paradise from reading his
>story.
>
>But these idiots he scammed truely were moronic.
>
>I mean, why not demand to at least meet the investors and the other members
>of his corporation IN THE GAME?
>
>I'd be surprised anyone is really that stupid. Ok wait, what am I thinking?
>People sent money to Jim Baker. AFTER he got caught!

Who is Jim Baker?
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 12:51:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> Hook me UP for the 2 hour travel sessions, and especially the
> watching little pebbles float to my ship.
>
> Oh! And the part about getting up at 6:30 AM so that it's
> possible to make a profit.
>
> Yes!
>
> Of course, that could all be bull. Still, I enjoyed the little
> creep's story.

Bullocks.

Trade NPC trade goods is just a small part of the game. And trade goods get
spawned at random and prices deppends on demand and availability on the
market, you need to read the market and keep an eye on it to be able to do
trading with trade goods profitable.

You can do missions, mining, npc hunting, research(blueprint copying),
building/selling etc for profit as well. PVP isnt profitable (unless the
people you kill drop some good gear).
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 1:20:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

">> Dont know what trade wars is. Check www.eve-online.com for info about
EVE.
>> Trade is just a small part of EVE. Biggest part is player interaction and
>> PVP. But if you dont like PVP you can do PVE and trade and other
>> professions as well.

> Having looked at the uber cool screen shots. What would you folks rate
> EVE? It looks and sounds cool, but how does it play? How does it compare
> to other online games?

EVE is skill based. You dont gain experience to build your character from
killing mobs or doing missions. Skill training takes real time, and you
train skills whether you are online or not. All skills have a rank, higher
the rank the longer time it takes to train. All skills have 5 levels. Skills
can unlock other skills, give certain bonus's or add attributes to your
character. Higher attributes means shorter training time for skills.

Example of a skill that gives bonus can be "Operation of large projectile
turret. 5% Bonus to large projectile turret damage". That bonus is pr level
of the skill, so at level 5 (which would take a long time to train you would
have 25% dmg bonus to large projectile turrets"

At current time I got 153 different skills and about 21 mill skillpoints.
Have played since July of 2003.
You can ask yourself how you can catch up to the old players, the trut is
you can't! However, these days its much easier to make a profit and build
your characters assets than back then. You also got advanced learning skills
to build your characters attributes up, and implants that also affect your
attributes. You will never catch up skillwise but to go from level 1 to
level 4 in a skill takes not much time compared to the long treks of 20+
days for level 5 skills that many of the older players trains.

If you dont like PVP you can do other things such as missions/PVE, mining,
building, researching, or simple trading. There is several thousand star
systems in eve. Ranging for 1.0 security systems to 0.0 security systems.
Where 0.4-0.0 is basically lawless and you enter at own risk and 1.0-0.5 is
protected by Concorde police forces. If you are in a corperation or an
alliance that have a legal sanctioned war going on you wont be safe anywhere
though.

If you are a bit industrious as a new player, you try join a good player
corperation. You will get aided with gear and how to play the game. New
players are not useless, if you dont like PVP much you can easily train up
fast to use a hauler (Industrial ship), to help in mining operations, do
trade runs etc while build up your skills. If you are more combat oriented
you can do PVE as a new player, but with low level NPC's. If you want do to
PVP you would be usefull as a tackler. That could be described as cannon
fodder ;-) However its like pilot a fast ship with scramblers on to disable
the target long enough so the rest of your mates can bring it down.

There is 4 main factions in EVE. Caldari, Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar.
Doesn't really matter what faction you start with, unless you are into
roleplay. Yes, there is many players who roleplay in EVE as well. Especially
Amarr and Minmatar. Amarr being evil slave keepers and well Minmatar's the
ex-enslaved. So called Minmatar Freedom fighters and Amarr corp's have
running fights all the time.
Ships and weapons are faction based, but nothing keep you from training the
required skills needed to fly another factions ships and to use their
weapons. Amarr's use lasers, Caldari missiles and rails, Gallente being more
blasters and drones while Minmatar use projectile weapons.

EVE is not sharded, it runs on one server. Some 55k subscribers or so atm I
think. At peak hours there is about 10-12k players online at once. Its hard
to tell someone how great and good eve is, you need to experience it
yourself and then just try it. Either you like it or you dont.

There is a 14 day buddy program available. If you know someone who plays EVE
they can refer you and you get a 14 days access pass. Only thing you need to
do then is to download the EVE client from
http://www.eve-online.com/download/ (about 450 mb).

If someone want me to refer them, I can do that, but you would need to email
me a valid email address that the 14 day pass get sent too.
March 2, 2005 1:20:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-01, Erland Andreassen <wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> wrote:

> EVE is not sharded, it runs on one server. Some 55k subscribers or so atm I
> think. At peak hours there is about 10-12k players online at once. Its hard
> to tell someone how great and good eve is, you need to experience it
> yourself and then just try it. Either you like it or you dont.

That's not a very big player base which is why they only have one
server.

I liked Eve for about 6 weeks. Then they released their second
update which essentially said "if you're not in a corp with other
players you will never get a chance to get to this content." I
quit, and Eve has the distinction of keeping its 55k subscribers
and nobody new because of the way the skill system is setup. I
cannot play catchup. It's all time based. Why bother?
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 3:00:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>> EVE is not sharded, it runs on one server. Some 55k subscribers or so atm
>> I
>> think. At peak hours there is about 10-12k players online at once. Its
>> hard
>> to tell someone how great and good eve is, you need to experience it
>> yourself and then just try it. Either you like it or you dont.

> That's not a very big player base which is why they only have one
> server.

That is actually quite a lot for a unsharded game such as EVE. And their
intention was never to run several shards in the first place, they wanted
everything in one gaming universe on one server.

> I liked Eve for about 6 weeks. Then they released their second
> update which essentially said "if you're not in a corp with other
> players you will never get a chance to get to this content." I
> quit, and Eve has the distinction of keeping its 55k subscribers
> and nobody new because of the way the skill system is setup. I
> cannot play catchup. It's all time based. Why bother?

I see new players all the time, and CCP doesnt have any massive marketing
around their game. I get the impression most of the players who join does so
because of knowning someone who already play EVE, or heard about it through
newsgroups, or on the net otherwise.

EVE is a multiplayer game, and as such you are not supposed to do everything
in the game alone. You need some social skills and actually learn how to
work with other players to be able to perfom certain tasks in the game. If
you are not prepared to do so, then why play a MMORPG in the first place?

The skill system is good as it is. You are not supposed to play catch up
with everyone else, because thats not the issue, the issue is to grow your
own character and train him/her the way you want, and become the character
you want it to be. There is afaik over 200 different skills in the game at
current time, no one is able to train up all those skills, at least not all
to be fully usefull. "Its not like become level 55 warrior with big ass axe
to crush any skulls" like thousands of others. When I started play EVE there
was players that had played for a good half a year already, I didnt sit down
and cry about them having a head start, thats just stupid.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 3:09:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"human" <worldie@dieli.com> once tried to test me with:

>
> "Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns960BBC76A6819knight37m@130.133.1.4...
>> This is an excellent read, by an excellent writer, who just so
>> happens to also be a scumbag.
>>
>> http://static.circa1984.com/the-big-scam.html
>>
>> --
>>
>> Knight37
>>
>> The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
>
> This was posted here several months ago, it's originally from the
> Something Awful forums if memory serves. My impression of it then was
> that it was loosely based on something the author briefly fantasized
> about doing. There's little doubt in my mind that it's embellished
> substantially, and the actual scam is probably invented entirely.
> There is no hard eveidence or corroborating accounts of any of the
> more dramatic elements of it, nor of any real scam whatsoever. And
> parts of the story ring hollow. The library thing, for instance, is
> 100% unbelievable (a library with a phone sitting around that has a
> dedicated number rather than an extension?). The ending feels more
> like a literary device than realistic as well. In real life any
> non-sociopath would have felt a strong urge to give the money back
> (since he had no use for it), but that wouldn't have made a good
> ending to the story, so he gives it to some random player instead.

I agree with your point up to the last part.

Sadly, there are a LOT of closet-sociopaths who play MMORPGs. I wouldn't at
all be surprised if someone just threw the money away (either to another
player or just deleted it) before giving it back to the people he
successfully griefed. Griefing is the entire point of what they do, they
get cheap thrills by making other people miserable.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
March 2, 2005 10:44:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-01, Erland Andreassen <wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> wrote:

> I see new players all the time, and CCP doesnt have any massive marketing
> around their game. I get the impression most of the players who join does so
> because of knowning someone who already play EVE, or heard about it through
> newsgroups, or on the net otherwise.

When E&B closed its doors those players were offered Eve
subscriptions. Almost every MMO site has a Eve free trial
banner. They've got plenty of marketting.

> EVE is a multiplayer game, and as such you are not supposed to do everything
> in the game alone. You need some social skills and actually learn how to
> work with other players to be able to perfom certain tasks in the game. If
> you are not prepared to do so, then why play a MMORPG in the first place?

That's fine and dandy but it requires way too much player
interaction to get anything done other than running PvE missions
solo (which gets repetitive fast).

> The skill system is good as it is. You are not supposed to play catch up
> with everyone else, because thats not the issue, the issue is to grow your
> own character and train him/her the way you want, and become the character
> you want it to be.

I'm not paying for 6 months and waiting those 6 months to have a
character that is better than everyone who joined within those 6
months. It's a scam by CCP.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 10:45:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 22:20:03 +0100, "Erland Andreassen"
<wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> wrote:

>If someone want me to refer them, I can do that, but you would need to email
>me a valid email address that the 14 day pass get sent too.

I've just emailed you. :) 

--

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 1:59:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

James Garvin wrote:

> Erland Andreassen wrote:
>
> > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like EVE is just Trade Wars for
> > > 2005???
> >
> >
> > Dont know what trade wars is. Check www.eve-online.com for info about EVE.
> > Trade is just a small part of EVE. Biggest part is player interaction and
> > PVP. But if you dont like PVP you can do PVE and trade and other
> > professions as well.
>
> Having looked at the uber cool screen shots. What would you folks rate EVE?
> It looks and sounds cool, but how does it play? How does it compare to other
> online games?
<end quote>

Well, the screenshot may look cool, however I'll rate it as "King of grinder".
All skilling in the game require real world hours to raise - they could get to
days to improve one point in a high rank skill (like in the story in the link,
copying the blue print will take 6 days - 6 actual days in real world time. And
if you decided to go the miner way, let me tell you what I experianced: my
tiny-weenie beginner ship with only 60 cargo space, will take around 20 minute
to mine a full load, which after processing will only net me a couple thousand
isk (the currency of EVE), 3k at the best. An industrial ship will cost some
where 800k (a (funtionally) very limited one) to over millions, I've met one
guy (actually he is the one recommend me to try the game - I met him in some
other MMORPG) who have a decent Industrial ship and, to ge a full load with 4
large mining laser, it will take him 5~6 hours - real world hours. You can't do
much other than chatting viewing the *very* *huge* galaxy map and maybe plan
your trade route when you have got the capital to do trade route, while waiting
for the cargo hold to be filled. You could park your industrial mining ship in
a 0.9 or 1.0 sector and go for a nap, a movie and some games in the arcade and
back to your computer and you still might need to wait another 10 to 20 minutes
to travel to the nearest mining station.

As for battle and navigation, it's simply
point-click-and-get-to-your-destination(tm), during battle all you can do is
cycle your target and issue what weapon to be fired. I'd actually reinstall
Freelancer if I want any *real* space adventure and *fun* space battle.

My conclusion is: play this game if you would reach ecstacy by staring at some
nice space screenies (actually almost *ALL* space games have that kinda
screenies) and you have lots of time to waste, and so much extra money to pay
for your skill and mine grinding.


I stopped playing in the first week of the 14 days trial. I simply don't have
so much time to waste. Besides, a half decent Korean MMORPG would be much fun
then this game, at least that's how it appear to me.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
"Aaaaah yourself!.....Uh, oh-o!"
-Serious 'Second Encounter' Sam-
-------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 6:39:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Erland Andreassen" <wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> wrote in
news:8yRUd.103$ai7.2026@news2.e.nsc.no:

>
>> Excellent read. =)
>
> Fiction always is (well most of the time). There is things in his
> story that doesnt add up, things that people that been playing EVE for
> a good while would spot ;-)
>

Erm... you'd say that, but that didn't stop Morbor scamming millions of ISK
from people :) 


--
Andy @ ZRN
"Jesus Saves, Allah Preserves, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a good
sandwich!"
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 6:47:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>> I see new players all the time, and CCP doesnt have any massive marketing
>> around their game. I get the impression most of the players who join does
>> so
>> because of knowning someone who already play EVE, or heard about it
>> through
>> newsgroups, or on the net otherwise.

> When E&B closed its doors those players were offered Eve
> subscriptions. Almost every MMO site has a Eve free trial
> banner. They've got plenty of marketting.

Marketing online at certain websites, compared to marketing out in the real
world like they had for WOW is 2 different things.

>> EVE is a multiplayer game, and as such you are not supposed to do
>> everything
>> in the game alone. You need some social skills and actually learn how to
>> work with other players to be able to perfom certain tasks in the game.
>> If
>> you are not prepared to do so, then why play a MMORPG in the first place?

> That's fine and dandy but it requires way too much player
> interaction to get anything done other than running PvE missions
> solo (which gets repetitive fast).

No it doesn't. And as you don't want to do PVE it seems, then PVP is left,
and you need to be more than 1 to actually do PVP ;-)
You need to be at least 2 people for that to happen.

>> The skill system is good as it is. You are not supposed to play catch up
>> with everyone else, because thats not the issue, the issue is to grow
>> your
>> own character and train him/her the way you want, and become the
>> character
>> you want it to be.

> I'm not paying for 6 months and waiting those 6 months to have a
> character that is better than everyone who joined within those 6
> months. It's a scam by CCP.

Why are you waiting 6 months? You are supposed to play the game, regardless
of your skills, skills get trained as you progress with the game.
Skills cost ISK (cash) to buy , and you need to actually play the game to
aquire that, so you can buy new skills. Tbh, you seem like a cry baby that
rather should keep to singel player games. ;-)
March 2, 2005 6:47:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-02, Erland Andreassen <wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> wrote:

> Why are you waiting 6 months? You are supposed to play the game, regardless
> of your skills, skills get trained as you progress with the game.
> Skills cost ISK (cash) to buy , and you need to actually play the game to
> aquire that, so you can buy new skills. Tbh, you seem like a cry baby that
> rather should keep to singel player games. ;-)

Why are you trying to twist the truth? I think you realize how
much of a scam Eve really is.

Sure you need ISK to buy the skill books but it's very cheap most
of the time. The problem isn't the ISK it's waiting for the skill
to be fully learnt before you can move onto the next one.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 7:08:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>> Having looked at the uber cool screen shots. What would you folks rate
>> EVE?
>> It looks and sounds cool, but how does it play? How does it compare to
>> other
>> online games?

> Well, the screenshot may look cool, however I'll rate it as "King of
> grinder".
> All skilling in the game require real world hours to raise - they could
> get to
> days to improve one point in a high rank skill (like in the story in the
> link,
> copying the blue print will take 6 days - 6 actual days in real world
> time. And
> if you decided to go the miner way, let me tell you what I experianced: my
> tiny-weenie beginner ship with only 60 cargo space, will take around 20
> minute
> to mine a full load, which after processing will only net me a couple
> thousand
> isk (the currency of EVE), 3k at the best. An industrial ship will cost
> some
> where 800k (a (funtionally) very limited one) to over millions, I've met
> one
> guy (actually he is the one recommend me to try the game - I met him in
> some
> other MMORPG) who have a decent Industrial ship and, to ge a full load
> with 4
> large mining laser, it will take him 5~6 hours - real world hours. You
> can't do
> much other than chatting viewing the *very* *huge* galaxy map and maybe
> plan
> your trade route when you have got the capital to do trade route, while
> waiting
> for the cargo hold to be filled. You could park your industrial mining
> ship in
> a 0.9 or 1.0 sector and go for a nap, a movie and some games in the arcade
> and
> back to your computer and you still might need to wait another 10 to 20
> minutes
> to travel to the nearest mining station.

A new player that join our Corp in EVE, which have limited skills get urged
to train for a industrial ship. Ship get supplied by the Corp,
he haul for a mining op or two, and he will net about 5-10 million in that
mining op. That is enough ISK to buy a Cruiser or two.
(This in the duration of one night). Mining ops we usally do need 2 fulltime
haulers to move the ore.

We have bookmarks that makes us able to instant jumb through systems with
little travel delay. Moving about in the EVE unvirse doesn't need to take
time.

Again, EVE is a online multiplayer game, if you want to do things all by
yourself, by all means do so. But that takes a lot of time and you will
progress slowly.
Player interaction is the keyword for games such as EVE. Of course you in a
starter newbie ship can compete with a large mining barge or a battleship
fitted with
high tech mining lasers. But if you play the game, one day you will have
that stuff too. Mining consume time, but it also gain you ISK the safest
way, and the fastest
way as a new player. Also as a new player you dont have the need for
millions of ISK, your imidiate needs is to cover new skills and upgrade your
ship and equipment
acording to what your skills allow you to use. Oh and most new players who
mine, mine in systems with stations in the sytem who can do the refining of
the ore.
And it take like 2 minutes from warping from a asteroid belt to the actual
station and dock, not 20 minutes.


> As for battle and navigation, it's simply
> point-click-and-get-to-your-destination(tm), during battle all you can do
> is
> cycle your target and issue what weapon to be fired. I'd actually
> reinstall
> Freelancer if I want any *real* space adventure and *fun* space battle.

EVE isnt an FPS game. And if you regard battle as just that? *rolleyes*
There is tons of ways to fit your ship, both as a traditional gun platform
and as a electronics warfare ship. You need to consider what ship you want
to use,
how can your ship be of most use when in gang with others. What will your
role be, what to fit to suit that role. Yes its a point and click interface,
but you
cant just warp in park your ship still and cycle your guns (unless you want
to end up dead very fast).

> My conclusion is: play this game if you would reach ecstacy by staring at
> some
> nice space screenies (actually almost *ALL* space games have that kinda
> screenies) and you have lots of time to waste, and so much extra money to
> pay
> for your skill and mine grinding.

If you like to interact with other players at a social level, and want to
play a game that make use of your brains and witts
then EVE is very good. If your idea of a multiplayer game is a FPS then
rather don't touch EVE.


> I stopped playing in the first week of the 14 days trial. I simply don't
> have
> so much time to waste. Besides, a half decent Korean MMORPG would be much
> fun
> then this game, at least that's how it appear to me.

I bet in that time you hadn't ventured much out of your starter school corp,
joined a player driven corp, or even had much team work
with other players? And regarding Korean mmorpg's, Im happy EVE doesnt have
much Korean influence, they tend to be hardcore
powerplayers that wreck havoc around them :p 
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 8:02:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>> Fiction always is (well most of the time). There is things in his
>> story that doesnt add up, things that people that been playing EVE for
>> a good while would spot ;-)


> Erm... you'd say that, but that didn't stop Morbor scamming millions of
> ISK
> from people :) 

Never said there isn't scams in EVE, but thats due to peoples own greed and
other peoples
ability to excel at make use of that through social engineering.

The low life scammers in EVE that is into the nickle and dime business use
recyclable alts.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 8:27:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>> Why are you waiting 6 months? You are supposed to play the game,
>> regardless
>> of your skills, skills get trained as you progress with the game.
>> Skills cost ISK (cash) to buy , and you need to actually play the game to
>> aquire that, so you can buy new skills. Tbh, you seem like a cry baby
>> that
>> rather should keep to singel player games. ;-)

> Why are you trying to twist the truth? I think you realize how
> much of a scam Eve really is.

Twist the truth? Yes it takes time to progress in a mmorpg. No one said its
fast and easy.
But there is no idea to try catch up with others, you are there to play the
game and progress
your own character. You will never catch up with the real old timers
skillwise, but you will
become better than many other players as you play. They keyword is PLAYING.

> Sure you need ISK to buy the skill books but it's very cheap most
> of the time. The problem isn't the ISK it's waiting for the skill
> to be fully learnt before you can move onto the next one.

Its called "PLAYING THE GAME". In some games you gain experience and level
up by bash mob's, in EVE you do it by training skills. New skills get
introduced to the game all the time together with new ships, modules etc.
You play the game whether you train to get skills or you bash mobs to get
experience for a level up. By training skills regardless of what you do, you
can do whatever you want to do while your skills goes up, you are not
requried to bash mobs or do quests or whatever to do it.
March 2, 2005 8:27:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-02, Erland Andreassen <wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> wrote:
>>> Why are you waiting 6 months? You are supposed to play the game,
>>> regardless
>>> of your skills, skills get trained as you progress with the game.
>>> Skills cost ISK (cash) to buy , and you need to actually play the game to
>>> aquire that, so you can buy new skills. Tbh, you seem like a cry baby
>>> that
>>> rather should keep to singel player games. ;-)
>
>> Why are you trying to twist the truth? I think you realize how
>> much of a scam Eve really is.
>
> Twist the truth? Yes it takes time to progress in a mmorpg. No one said its
> fast and easy.

The point is in Eve it's not a meritocracy. You don't advanced
based on how much you play or how well you play. You advance
based on time spent, friends, and your ability to look at
spreadsheets (the market).

You cannot create items of higher quality. Everything is the
same.

You want to advance? Get an account, grind some missions, and set
your character to learn stuff. Wait 6 months and you're more
advanced than everyone who joined while you are playing.

It's a scam. Even the devs joked about how people get excited
over mining when its just a stored procedure in a database being
called over and over again.

There is nothing more repetitive and nothing more monotomous than
Eve. It ranks up there with Lineage only in Lineage you advanced
based on your actions and not a timer.

Twist the truth all you want. Claim mining is fun. Claim that you
need to earn money when in fact it's just repeating the same
missions over and over again. There is nothing
undiscovered. There is nothing new. Blueprints are released every
3 months and you grind missions to acquire them and you make the
same exact item over and over again.

> But there is no idea to try catch up with others, you are there to play the
> game and progress
> your own character. You will never catch up with the real old timers
> skillwise, but you will
> become better than many other players as you play. They keyword is PLAYING.

Playing what? A simple market based on demand and supply? Every
item is the exact same commodity.

> Its called "PLAYING THE GAME". In some games you gain experience and level
> up by bash mob's, in EVE you do it by training skills.

In Eve you set your character to train and WAIT. Newsflash:
THAT'S NOT PLAYING THE GAME.

> New skills get
> introduced to the game all the time together with new ships, modules etc.
> You play the game whether you train to get skills or you bash mobs to get
> experience for a level up. By training skills regardless of what you do, you
> can do whatever you want to do while your skills goes up, you are not
> requried to bash mobs or do quests or whatever to do it.

Have you wondered why they have 55k users and WoW has over 800k
in North America? Technical issues notwithstanding you can go in
and PLAY WoW instead of watch a timer while you mine the same
asteroid over and over again hoping the PvPers in 0.0 space won't
blow you away on your way back.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 8:38:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 1 Mar 2005 00:31:36 GMT, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:

>This is an excellent read, by an excellent writer, who just so happens to
>also be a scumbag.
>
>http://static.circa1984.com/the-big-scam.html

Too esoteric. I got bored within three paragraphs & quit.

-worm

"Adaptations that are too true can miss the whole damn point!"
- Brian Yuzna
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 11:57:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>> Twist the truth? Yes it takes time to progress in a mmorpg. No one said
>> its
>> fast and easy.

> The point is in Eve it's not a meritocracy. You don't advanced
> based on how much you play or how well you play. You advance
> based on time spent, friends, and your ability to look at
> spreadsheets (the market).

You advance in personal assetts and ISK deppending on how much and how good
you play.
I thought advance due to time spent and how much you play the same time?
Doh!
If you limit your game play to mining and using the market then you play
very
narrowminded in the first place.


> You cannot create items of higher quality. Everything is the
> same.

True, you cannot create items, you can however research blueprints so they
require less
resources to build items. Some items in the game is ultra rare and just a
few got them, hence valued to billions of isk.
Some rares you are only able to get through hard work, and joint team
effort, but team effort not always required.

> You want to advance? Get an account, grind some missions, and set
> your character to learn stuff. Wait 6 months and you're more
> advanced than everyone who joined while you are playing.

Well, if you go to school, you should have learned more than those that
enter same class one year after you.
There is more to the game than just wait for skills to be learned. Once you
learned the skills required to utilize
a ship or a module it doesnt matter if you skill is at level 2 or 4. Of
course higher level of the skills the better
bonus's you have, but not required to have any skill at level 5. All the
skills and the levels is there for you to
build your unique character, not for you to be like everyone else's
character.

> It's a scam. Even the devs joked about how people get excited
> over mining when its just a stored procedure in a database being
> called over and over again.

Would be nice if you actually had something to refer to, something to quote
from.

> There is nothing more repetitive and nothing more monotomous than
> Eve. It ranks up there with Lineage only in Lineage you advanced
> based on your actions and not a timer.

Again, EVE is not just about learning the different skills.

> Twist the truth all you want. Claim mining is fun. Claim that you
> need to earn money when in fact it's just repeating the same
> missions over and over again. There is nothing
> undiscovered. There is nothing new. Blueprints are released every
> 3 months and you grind missions to acquire them and you make the
> same exact item over and over again.

I dont think mining is that much fun, thats why I employ miners and pay them
to do a job I dont like.
Im a builder. I like to make a profit, play the market. Make business deals.
Blueprints are not released every 3 months, tech2 blueprints are seeded in
now and then. Tech1 blueprints
are available on the market from NPC corps's, and faction blueprint copies
avilable through mission Agents as rewards.

>> But there is no idea to try catch up with others, you are there to play
>> the
>> game and progress
>> your own character. You will never catch up with the real old timers
>> skillwise, but you will
>> become better than many other players as you play. They keyword is
>> PLAYING.

> Playing what? A simple market based on demand and supply? Every
> item is the exact same commodity.

Once again you refer to just a small part of the game.

>> Its called "PLAYING THE GAME". In some games you gain experience and
>> level
>> up by bash mob's, in EVE you do it by training skills.

> In Eve you set your character to train and WAIT. Newsflash:
> THAT'S NOT PLAYING THE GAME.

Actually I do play the game regardless of what skill Im training. Training a
new skill or waiting for a level of a current skill to go up
doesnt keep me from doing other things in the game, I dont just sit there
and twiddle my thumbs waiting. Thats just waisting your
time.

>> New skills get
>> introduced to the game all the time together with new ships, modules etc.
>> You play the game whether you train to get skills or you bash mobs to get
>> experience for a level up. By training skills regardless of what you do,
>> you
>> can do whatever you want to do while your skills goes up, you are not
>> requried to bash mobs or do quests or whatever to do it.

> Have you wondered why they have 55k users and WoW has over 800k
> in North America? Technical issues notwithstanding you can go in
> and PLAY WoW instead of watch a timer while you mine the same
> asteroid over and over again hoping the PvPers in 0.0 space won't
> blow you away on your way back.

WoW and EVE is two different things. WoW is a giant bandwagon, many people I
know who started play WoW is already bored of it.
The massive marketing for WoW compared to what marketing CCP had for EVE is
two differnet things as well. You dont have 800k players
playing WoW on the same server either. You have carebear free PVP severs and
dedicated PVE servers for WoW afaik. You apparently don't like
EVE where as I do. However there is lots of things in EVE that can take some
critics as well, but its a good game, and people should judge by themselfs
whether its fun to play or not.
March 2, 2005 11:57:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-02, Erland Andreassen <wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> wrote:

>> It's a scam. Even the devs joked about how people get excited
>> over mining when its just a stored procedure in a database being
>> called over and over again.
>
> Would be nice if you actually had something to refer to, something to quote
> from.

It was a warcry interview if I remember correctly. Go look it up.


> Again, EVE is not just about learning the different skills.

Sorry, you're right. It's about mining asteroids (see above) and
doing missions over and over and over. Then you get ISK which you
can use to buy skills and log off for days while your character
learns. It's called ProgressQuest. Look it up sometime.

>
>> Have you wondered why they have 55k users and WoW has over 800k
>> in North America? Technical issues notwithstanding you can go in
>> and PLAY WoW instead of watch a timer while you mine the same
>> asteroid over and over again hoping the PvPers in 0.0 space won't
>> blow you away on your way back.
>
> WoW and EVE is two different things. WoW is a giant bandwagon, many people I
> know who started play WoW is already bored of it.
> The massive marketing for WoW compared to what marketing CCP had for EVE is
> two differnet things as well. You dont have 800k players
> playing WoW on the same server either.

One day you'll grow a brain and realize that 800k users would
probably crash CPPs server in a second. In fact it will never
happen. More and more people will go back to EQ, EQ2, CoH, and
other games. Only an idiot would go back to Eve after realizing
he's so far behind and there's no way to catch up.

> You have carebear free PVP severs and
> dedicated PVE servers for WoW afaik. You apparently don't like
> EVE where as I do. However there is lots of things in EVE that can take some
> critics as well, but its a good game, and people should judge by themselfs
> whether its fun to play or not.

Most people don't think it's fun. That's why your playerbase is
so tiny compared to every MMO out there. Heck, CoH reported three
times as many players.

You lost :) 
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 2:33:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>> Again, EVE is not just about learning the different skills.

> Sorry, you're right. It's about mining asteroids (see above) and
> doing missions over and over and over. Then you get ISK which you
> can use to buy skills and log off for days while your character
> learns. It's called ProgressQuest. Look it up sometime.

You are a very narrowminded person with little experience from actual
playing EVE.
The more I hear from you I start doubt you even atempted to play the game at
all.
You are a borderline trollish nuttcase imho.

>> WoW and EVE is two different things. WoW is a giant bandwagon, many
>> people I
>> know who started play WoW is already bored of it.
>> The massive marketing for WoW compared to what marketing CCP had for EVE
>> is
>> two differnet things as well. You dont have 800k players
>> playing WoW on the same server either.

> One day you'll grow a brain and realize that 800k users would
> probably crash CPPs server in a second. In fact it will never
> happen. More and more people will go back to EQ, EQ2, CoH, and
> other games. Only an idiot would go back to Eve after realizing
> he's so far behind and there's no way to catch up.

Actually, we se more and more people come back to EVE after trying EQ2 etc.
And only a idiot would claim catching up is the only point playing. Oh boo
hoo, you got a level 50
character, I start with a level 1 character, how unfair... Cray me a river,
boo hoo.. doh!


>> You have carebear free PVP severs and
>> dedicated PVE servers for WoW afaik. You apparently don't like
>> EVE where as I do. However there is lots of things in EVE that can take
>> some
>> critics as well, but its a good game, and people should judge by
>> themselfs
>> whether its fun to play or not.

> Most people don't think it's fun. That's why your playerbase is
> so tiny compared to every MMO out there. Heck, CoH reported three
> times as many players.
> You lost :) 

WoW is a giant Warcraft bandwagon, thats where it gain its players from.
A game doesnt need a giant playerbase to be fun to play. I didn't think this
was a
game about winning or losing, your. You even left puberty yet? Atm there is
about 10k players
online. That would mean at least 10k people just now disagree with you.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 3:47:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Wormwood <insectfearYOURPANTIES@yahoo.com> once tried to test me with:

> On 1 Mar 2005 00:31:36 GMT, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>
>>This is an excellent read, by an excellent writer, who just so happens
>>to also be a scumbag.
>>
>>http://static.circa1984.com/the-big-scam.html
>
> Too esoteric. I got bored within three paragraphs & quit.

Yeah, it's not really for the ADD crowd.


--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 12:26:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> writes:

> The point is in Eve it's not a meritocracy. You don't advanced
> based on how much you play or how well you play.

What does "well" have to do with MMORPGs? Are you complaining you
cannot catass 24/7 to outlevel someone with a life?

> You advance based on time spent, friends, and your ability to look
> at spreadsheets (the market).

Yes, it's primary an economics sim. It's not a traditional MMORPG.

> You cannot create items of higher quality. Everything is the
> same.

Are you a "magic item whore"? Go back to fantasy land.

> It's a scam.

No, it's just a different mechanism from what you're used to.

Get over yourself, you're so gameplay conservative it's ridiculous.

> Even the devs joked about how people get excited over mining when
> its just a stored procedure in a database being called over and over
> again.

How is any other MMORPG any different? Numbers affecting other
numbers.

> There is nothing more repetitive and nothing more monotomous than
> Eve. It ranks up there with Lineage only in Lineage you advanced
> based on your actions and not a timer.

Yes, Lineage is more suited to the traditional catass.

> In Eve you set your character to train and WAIT. Newsflash:
> THAT'S NOT PLAYING THE GAME.

Why should training skills - a boring task - be part of the game? It's
not in most other games either. In WoW I can learn new powers at every
even-numbered level, but to get to that level I perform repetitive
tasks (whacking mobs). To get the power I then just click a button and
hey presto I have got it. No related gameplay or training, just the
same rat-whacking I would have done to reach other goals, like the
same-ish quests with weird item drop rates.

The difference is that someone who spends a lot of time doing those
repeptitive tasks will rise in level faster than someone who doesn't.
EVE removes that difference, making you play the game instead of
pretending that making numbers (experience, level) go up _is_ the
game.

> Have you wondered why they have 55k users and WoW has over 800k
> in North America?

Why wonder? WoW has been hyped, marketed, pushed into stores, and has
a legion of Blizzard fanboys screaming for its release. Are you saying
game companies cannot be successful unless they have the frothing
fanbase of Blizzard? 55k users is great for a small company. 55k users
would have been the death of WoW.

> Technical issues notwithstanding you can go in and PLAY WoW

Well, after waiting in queue you can move an avatar around a nice
landscape, occasionally hitting some keys to have an auto-combat take
place. Not exactly the same as playing an actual game, more like
numbers making other numbers go up or down. How is that any different
from doing it in a spaceship in EVE?

> instead of watch a timer while you mine the same asteroid over and
> over again hoping the PvPers in 0.0 space won't blow you away on
> your way back.

EVE in many way a window system with a pretty screensaver, chat and a
market mechanism. For a lot of people - but obviously not you - that
is enough to be worth playing.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 2:50:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Erland Andreassen wrote:

>
> A new player that join our Corp in EVE, which have limited skills get urged
> to train for a industrial ship. Ship get supplied by the Corp,
> he haul for a mining op or two, and he will net about 5-10 million in that
> mining op. That is enough ISK to buy a Cruiser or two.
> (This in the duration of one night). Mining ops we usally do need 2 fulltime
> haulers to move the ore.
>
> We have bookmarks that makes us able to instant jumb through systems with
> little travel delay. Moving about in the EVE unvirse doesn't need to take
> time.
>

I know, it really helps in navigation, but I was prefering I could fly freely
in the space by navigating the ship by myself. After all, *space* should for
roaming *freely*. I don't want to fell still constricted while I'm travelling
in the *space*.

> Again, EVE is a online multiplayer game, if you want to do things all by
> yourself, by all means do so. But that takes a lot of time and you will
> progress slowly.
> Player interaction is the keyword for games such as EVE. Of course you in a
> starter newbie ship can compete with a large mining barge or a battleship
> fitted with

huh? a 60 cargo holder can compete with a 8000 cargo holder? 2 small mining
lasers can compete with 4 large mining lasers? That's something that will
require either cheating or some expert playing....

> high tech mining lasers. But if you play the game, one day you will have
> that stuff too. Mining consume time, but it also gain you ISK the safest
> way, and the fastest

the problem is I don't have sooooooo much time. Life is short man, and I have
no intention to spend it staring at little pabbles floating into a ship. Eve is
best recommended to old folks that have no kids, no grand kids and no hobby. It
makes no different if they stare at the walls or they stare on the monitor
screen (and the pabble thing). Oh wait, there is difference, they got to admire
the *MAGNIFICENT* space scene.


> way as a new player. Also as a new player you dont have the need for
> millions of ISK, your imidiate needs is to cover new skills and upgrade your
> ship and equipment
> acording to what your skills allow you to use. Oh and most new players who
> mine, mine in systems with stations in the sytem who can do the refining of
> the ore.
> And it take like 2 minutes from warping from a asteroid belt to the actual
> station and dock, not 20 minutes.
>

okay, maybe i over stated the travel time, but it really felt that looooong....

>
> EVE isnt an FPS game.

Indeed, it's a spreadsheet with "beautiful" space wallpaper. rolleyes, too.

> And if you regard battle as just that? rolleyes
> There is tons of ways to fit your ship, both as a traditional gun platform
> and as a electronics warfare ship. You need to consider what ship you want
> to use,
> how can your ship be of most use when in gang with others. What will your
> role be, what to fit to suit that role. Yes its a point and click interface,
> but you
> cant just warp in park your ship still and cycle your guns (unless you want
> to end up dead very fast).
>




> > My conclusion is: play this game if you would reach ecstacy by staring at
> > some
> > nice space screenies (actually almost ALL space games have that kinda
> > screenies) and you have lots of time to waste, and so much extra money to
> > pay
> > for your skill and mine grinding.
>
> If you like to interact with other players at a social level, and want to
> play a game that make use of your brains and witts
> then EVE is very good. If your idea of a multiplayer game is a FPS then
> rather don't touch EVE.

so i stopped *touching* it. By the way, I'm not an FPS fan, I'm in between a
hardcore RPGer and some sort of a slow Action player. Having being able to
navigate my ship and fight with my ability to pilot the ship is, IMHO, more
role immersive. I live by my skill, I die by my skill.

I sincerely recommend you try Freelancer if you haven't already, for a more
interesting idea of space fight. (Well forget what I said if you would nail the
Big-G on a crusifix or do the same thing to action/FPS games/gamers).

>
> I bet in that time you hadn't ventured much out of your starter school corp,
> joined a player driven corp, or even had much team work

I did ventured quite far and got pod'd a few times in areas with 0.3 sec level
(though I managed to fry a couple of pirates - in 1-1 battles, I'm not sure
these loners are players or not, they seem very poorly equipped). I ventured to
5~6 systems serching for a good place to off load my cargo. I din't join any
corps since I decided I won't play for long....Life's short for me.


> with other players? And regarding Korean mmorpg's, Im happy EVE doesnt have
> much Korean influence, they tend to be hardcore
> powerplayers that wreck havoc around them :p 


yeah, I'm glad about the the influence too, though in reverse way. If the
Korean starts to produce spreadsheets MMORPG, the doom is near....LOL

With that all said, I was just stating what I feel about EVE when James asked
about the game. There is noway I'm anti-EVE, but just that, it's not my cup of
tea. I prefer an MMORPG that can let me have some action(to prevent me from
falling asleep while playing) and control the pace of my advancement. So far
most Korean MMORPG (even just a half decent one) fits my requirements. Lastly,
I also hate powerleveling/monster-grinding, but it's still much prefered if I
have to chose between that and time-grinding....Life's short.

Regards

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
"Aaaaah yourself!.....Uh, oh-o!"
-Serious 'Second Encounter' Sam-
-------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 2:50:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>> We have bookmarks that makes us able to instant jumb through systems with
>> little travel delay. Moving about in the EVE unvirse doesn't need to take
>> time.

> I know, it really helps in navigation, but I was prefering I could fly
> freely
> in the space by navigating the ship by myself. After all, *space* should
> for
> roaming *freely*. I don't want to fell still constricted while I'm
> travelling
> in the *space*.

You want a destination for your travels, to just roam around in open space
with no aim or goal is
not very realistic.


> huh? a 60 cargo holder can compete with a 8000 cargo holder? 2 small
> mining
> lasers can compete with 4 large mining lasers? That's something that will
> require either cheating or some expert playing....

I meant to write "Can't" It was a spelling mistake from my side.

> the problem is I don't have sooooooo much time. Life is short man, and I
> have
> no intention to spend it staring at little pabbles floating into a ship.
> Eve is
> best recommended to old folks that have no kids, no grand kids and no
> hobby. It
> makes no different if they stare at the walls or they stare on the monitor
> screen (and the pabble thing). Oh wait, there is difference, they got to
> admire
> the *MAGNIFICENT* space scene.

Eve is perfect if you dont have much time because skill training goes on
whether you are online playing or not ;-)


>> EVE isnt an FPS game.
> Indeed, it's a spreadsheet with "beautiful" space wallpaper. rolleyes,
too.

I wouldn't call PVP in EVE for looking at a spreadsheet tbh. If you taken
part in battles with 50+ on each side its a major rush.

> so i stopped *touching* it. By the way, I'm not an FPS fan, I'm in between
> a
> hardcore RPGer and some sort of a slow Action player. Having being able to
> navigate my ship and fight with my ability to pilot the ship is, IMHO,
> more
> role immersive. I live by my skill, I die by my skill.

Skills and attributes is what makes your character better in EVE, however,
without
brains and gaming experience from the players side that doesn't mean much.

> I sincerely recommend you try Freelancer if you haven't already, for a
> more
> interesting idea of space fight. (Well forget what I said if you would
> nail the
> Big-G on a crusifix or do the same thing to action/FPS games/gamers).

Freelancer is a FPS in space settings. I played it through a few times. I
spent TONS of time
to unearth and discover secrets and find rares in it. Freelancer is aimed at
singelplayers mostly
and not really a mmorpg game. Leveling in Freelancer did deppend on your
cash, not really
realistic that either ;-)
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 7:17:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Erland Andreassen wrote:


>
> You want a destination for your travels, to just roam around in open space
> with no aim or goal is
> not very realistic.

That's called *EXPLORATION*, and I'm adventurous :) 

EVE prevent exploration because it has nothing to offer for the adventurous
players. You can't fly off course to some far hidden corner to discover a rich
cache of what-ever-ium ore or a hidden pirate base and such....so I'd said, EVE
is not my cup of tea and I was just stating my opinion. So, please stop trying
to argue or convincing me EVE is the best thing ever happened to the Online
Game community. Eve may be that "best thing" for some, so let it be. Eve is not
what I like, so let it be. I really looking to play an MMORPG that allow free
exploration. (8-}

> I meant to write "Can't" It was a spelling mistake from my side.

Okay. noted. :-)


> Eve is perfect if you dont have much time because skill training goes on
> whether you are online playing or not ;-)

well maybe our defination of "playing" a game is different where I belive i
should be gaining fun in every bit of time I'm engaged in the game world, while
you don't mind issuing some command and leave it to run by itself and then turn
on to other things while waiting fot the command to be complete. I admit that
I'm always a single tasking machine, multitasking is never my prefered
style....;-P


> I wouldn't call PVP in EVE for looking at a spreadsheet tbh. If you taken
> part in battles with 50+ on each side its a major rush.

Ahh... but I'd prefer a huge battlefield that my playing experiance couple with
my (though limited) nimbleness (or lacking) to be my reason of victory (or
defeat). Eve do not offer that kinda play style for me, too bad.

....guese I'm leaning more toward Action after all....


> Skills and attributes is what makes your character better in EVE, however,
> without
> brains and gaming experience from the players side that doesn't mean much.

agreed.

but fighting in an FPS game (or Freelancer, in this case) dosen't mean
experiance in previous battle is not appliable, and brain power is not needed.
By learning from previous battles, and put in some brain juice in the battle
could let you win the battle more gloriously than a mindles-button-bashing FPS
buff, though.

> Freelancer is a FPS in space settings. I played it through a few times. I
> spent TONS of time
> to unearth and discover secrets and find rares in it. Freelancer is aimed at
> singelplayers mostly
> and not really a mmorpg game. Leveling in Freelancer did deppend on your
> cash, not really
> realistic that either ;-)

ever hoped that there will be a Freelancer Online?

I sure do.

<end quote>

Well, as I said, it's pointless for us to try convicing or argue with each
other, since we ar on different path in our online gaming preferance, I won't
be commenting anything further in any "Mine are better than yours" or
"No...that's wrong, you should appreciate it like this..." kinda conversation.
You may conclude your point in the next post and we just leave the issue
peacefully, agree? (heh heh, I think I kinda make the conversation felt like
something seriously hostile....:-))




--
-------------------------------------------------------------
"Aaaaah yourself!.....Uh, oh-o!"
-Serious 'Second Encounter' Sam-
-------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 12:54:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Erland Andreassen wrote:


> Huge battlefield? what is a huge battlefield for you then?

Well, I'm currently close-beta testing a game in Taiwan where the game itself
is also in Open Beta in Korea. It's called RF Online (I heard the full name is
called Rising Force) which I belive is targeted to release in US like Lineage 2
did. This game got a mining area for resource war (yeah, mining again...brrr).
although currently there are only 2 tribes (supposed to have 3) available in
the Beta I'm playing, a battle will involve around 3~400 players and even small
skirmishes would invlove around 70~80 players, assuming the amount is equally
divided among players, that's 40 vs 40.

In the 3rd stage of the Closed Beta, I'd figure there will be ~1000 players
involved in a grand battle while skirmishes may involve ~200 players.

This is what i called huge (or at least big) battle (okay, I was originally
meant battle not battlefield... but the mining area of RF is still considered
big...it should be able to accomodate ~3000 players before lagginess kiced in
and spoil the fun)

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
"Aaaaah yourself!.....Uh, oh-o!"
-Serious 'Second Encounter' Sam-
-------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 5:30:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns960BBC76A6819knight37m@130.133.1.4...

> This is an excellent read, by an excellent writer, who just so happens to
> also be a scumbag.

Fascinating story. After reading through the rest of this thread (you KNEW
it would start an MMOG war, right?) I suspect it's mostly fictional, but
you're right, it sure was inspired writing.

Thanks for an enjoyable read!

--
Bob Perez

"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they
quit playing."
- Oliver Wendell Holmes
!