Confessions of an EVE Online Scammer

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"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns960BBC76A6819knight37m@130.133.1.4...
> This is an excellent read, by an excellent writer, who just so happens to
> also be a scumbag.
>
> http://static.circa1984.com/the-big-scam.html
>
> --
>
> Knight37
>
> The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

I though all excellent writers were scumbags.
 
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"Grackle" <nowhere@lalaland.ca> once tried to test me with:

> "Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns960BBC76A6819knight37m@130.133.1.4...
>> This is an excellent read, by an excellent writer, who just so
>> happens to also be a scumbag.
>>
>> http://static.circa1984.com/the-big-scam.html
>>
>> --
>>
>> Knight37
>>
>> The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
>
> I though all excellent writers were scumbags.

Just the ones who write pr0n.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
 
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> Excellent read. =)

Fiction always is (well most of the time). There is things in his story that
doesnt add up, things that people that been playing EVE for a good while
would spot ;-)
 
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"Erland Andreassen" <wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> once tried to test me
with:

>
>> Excellent read. =)
>
> Fiction always is (well most of the time). There is things in his
> story that doesnt add up, things that people that been playing EVE for
> a good while would spot ;-)

Like what things?

It sounded to me like EVE would be a griefer's paradise from reading his
story.

But these idiots he scammed truely were moronic.

I mean, why not demand to at least meet the investors and the other members
of his corporation IN THE GAME?

I'd be surprised anyone is really that stupid. Ok wait, what am I thinking?
People sent money to Jim Baker. AFTER he got caught!


--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
 
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> Like what things?

Like fire missiles from a ship that doesnt have any launcher hardpoints,
thus no ability to actually fire missiles. Just a small thing, but still ;-)
And they dont actually remove characters from the game world unless they get
DELETED by the user, and none of the names in the story actually can be
found in the game. The scam described I never read about on the EVE forums
and I been playing EVE since like forever. When major scams happen it goes
onto the forums and explode in big threads per usual.

> It sounded to me like EVE would be a griefer's paradise from reading his
> story.

People that fall victim to their own greed isnt griefing. EVE is divided up
in security sectors, and you decide yourself how safe you want to be. The
economics is player driven and you decide yourself whether you buy things
and at what prices. Getting killed in a low security sector isnt griefing
its PVP, and you knew the risk enter such a low sec sector.

As with most online games there is scammers of some degree, but it all comes
down to a players greed and how blue eyed he/she is. Social engineering
plays a high factor with any scams.
 
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Erland Andreassen wrote:

>>Like what things?
>
>
> Like fire missiles from a ship that doesnt have any launcher hardpoints,
> thus no ability to actually fire missiles. Just a small thing, but still ;-)
> And they dont actually remove characters from the game world unless they get
> DELETED by the user, and none of the names in the story actually can be
> found in the game. The scam described I never read about on the EVE forums
> and I been playing EVE since like forever. When major scams happen it goes
> onto the forums and explode in big threads per usual.
>
>
>>It sounded to me like EVE would be a griefer's paradise from reading his
>>story.
>
>
> People that fall victim to their own greed isnt griefing. EVE is divided up
> in security sectors, and you decide yourself how safe you want to be. The
> economics is player driven and you decide yourself whether you buy things
> and at what prices. Getting killed in a low security sector isnt griefing
> its PVP, and you knew the risk enter such a low sec sector.
>
> As with most online games there is scammers of some degree, but it all comes
> down to a players greed and how blue eyed he/she is. Social engineering
> plays a high factor with any scams.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like EVE is just Trade Wars for
2005???
 
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"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns960BBC76A6819knight37m@130.133.1.4...
> This is an excellent read, by an excellent writer, who just so happens to
> also be a scumbag.
>
> http://static.circa1984.com/the-big-scam.html
>
> --
>
> Knight37
>
> The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

This was posted here several months ago, it's originally from the Something
Awful forums if memory serves. My impression of it then was that it was
loosely based on something the author briefly fantasized about doing.
There's little doubt in my mind that it's embellished substantially, and the
actual scam is probably invented entirely. There is no hard eveidence or
corroborating accounts of any of the more dramatic elements of it, nor of
any real scam whatsoever. And parts of the story ring hollow. The library
thing, for instance, is 100% unbelievable (a library with a phone sitting
around that has a dedicated number rather than an extension?). The ending
feels more like a literary device than realistic as well. In real life any
non-sociopath would have felt a strong urge to give the money back (since he
had no use for it), but that wouldn't have made a good ending to the story,
so he gives it to some random player instead.
 
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> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like EVE is just Trade Wars for
> 2005???

Dont know what trade wars is. Check www.eve-online.com for info about EVE.
Trade is just a small part of EVE. Biggest part is player interaction and
PVP. But if you dont like PVP you can do PVE and trade and other professions
as well.
 
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Erland Andreassen wrote:
>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like EVE is just Trade Wars for
>>2005???
>
>
> Dont know what trade wars is. Check www.eve-online.com for info about EVE.
> Trade is just a small part of EVE. Biggest part is player interaction and
> PVP. But if you dont like PVP you can do PVE and trade and other professions
> as well.

Tradewars (http://www.eisonline.com/TradeWars/) is an old BBS game that
was quite fun (and semi-graphical...sorta...ok...not really). You
traded, took over planets, mined, fought enemies, and could become a
Star Fleet Captian or a high ranking pirate! It was quite fun and it
have PVP and PVE elements as well and some pretty fleshed out (for the
time) game play mechanics.
 
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Erland Andreassen wrote:

>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like EVE is just Trade Wars for
>>2005???
>
>
> Dont know what trade wars is. Check www.eve-online.com for info about EVE.
> Trade is just a small part of EVE. Biggest part is player interaction and
> PVP. But if you dont like PVP you can do PVE and trade and other professions
> as well.

Having looked at the uber cool screen shots. What would you folks rate
EVE? It looks and sounds cool, but how does it play? How does it
compare to other online games?
 
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In article <k33Vd.206$ai7.4186@news2.e.nsc.no>, Erland Andreassen wrote:
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like EVE is just Trade
>> Wars for 2005???
>
> Dont know what trade wars is. Check www.eve-online.com for info
> about EVE. Trade is just a small part of EVE. Biggest part is
> player interaction and PVP. But if you dont like PVP you can do
> PVE and trade and other professions as well.

Hook me UP for the 2 hour travel sessions, and especially the
watching little pebbles float to my ship.

Oh! And the part about getting up at 6:30 AM so that it's
possible to make a profit.

Yes!

Of course, that could all be bull. Still, I enjoyed the little
creep's story.

--
Neil Cerutti
Not only is he ambidextrous, he can throw with either hand.
--Duff Daugherty
 
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James Garvin <jgarvin2004@comcast.net> writes:
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like EVE is just Trade Wars for
>2005???

You'd like to think so. But it's not. The trading mechanics, especially
with regard supply and demand, are primitive compared to Tradewars, and
combat (at least when I was playing it, 6 months after release) was
insanely short (ships were commonly destroyed before their computer had
even loaded the area where the stargate was, which was exceedingly lame).
Plus, in Tradewars, generally there were less annoying idiots and you
could always find another game if you found the old one getting full of
annoying people. I could go on for a while with why I was disappointed
in Eve after making the same assumption you did, but unless things have
changed dramatically, it's just not worth 15 bucks a month.

--
Chas Blackwell <Black Isis> CITES Systems Management Group
<cblkwell@uiuc.edu>
I don't even know what CITES stands
for, so I don't speak for them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"As we were forged we shall return, perhaps some day. | VNV Nation,
I will remember you and wonder who we were." | "Further"
 
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Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>"Erland Andreassen" <wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> once tried to test me
>with:
>
>>
>>> Excellent read. =)
>>
>> Fiction always is (well most of the time). There is things in his
>> story that doesnt add up, things that people that been playing EVE for
>> a good while would spot ;-)
>
>Like what things?
>
>It sounded to me like EVE would be a griefer's paradise from reading his
>story.
>
>But these idiots he scammed truely were moronic.
>
>I mean, why not demand to at least meet the investors and the other members
>of his corporation IN THE GAME?
>
>I'd be surprised anyone is really that stupid. Ok wait, what am I thinking?
>People sent money to Jim Baker. AFTER he got caught!

Who is Jim Baker?
 
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> Hook me UP for the 2 hour travel sessions, and especially the
> watching little pebbles float to my ship.
>
> Oh! And the part about getting up at 6:30 AM so that it's
> possible to make a profit.
>
> Yes!
>
> Of course, that could all be bull. Still, I enjoyed the little
> creep's story.

Bullocks.

Trade NPC trade goods is just a small part of the game. And trade goods get
spawned at random and prices deppends on demand and availability on the
market, you need to read the market and keep an eye on it to be able to do
trading with trade goods profitable.

You can do missions, mining, npc hunting, research(blueprint copying),
building/selling etc for profit as well. PVP isnt profitable (unless the
people you kill drop some good gear).
 
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">> Dont know what trade wars is. Check www.eve-online.com for info about
EVE.
>> Trade is just a small part of EVE. Biggest part is player interaction and
>> PVP. But if you dont like PVP you can do PVE and trade and other
>> professions as well.

> Having looked at the uber cool screen shots. What would you folks rate
> EVE? It looks and sounds cool, but how does it play? How does it compare
> to other online games?

EVE is skill based. You dont gain experience to build your character from
killing mobs or doing missions. Skill training takes real time, and you
train skills whether you are online or not. All skills have a rank, higher
the rank the longer time it takes to train. All skills have 5 levels. Skills
can unlock other skills, give certain bonus's or add attributes to your
character. Higher attributes means shorter training time for skills.

Example of a skill that gives bonus can be "Operation of large projectile
turret. 5% Bonus to large projectile turret damage". That bonus is pr level
of the skill, so at level 5 (which would take a long time to train you would
have 25% dmg bonus to large projectile turrets"

At current time I got 153 different skills and about 21 mill skillpoints.
Have played since July of 2003.
You can ask yourself how you can catch up to the old players, the trut is
you can't! However, these days its much easier to make a profit and build
your characters assets than back then. You also got advanced learning skills
to build your characters attributes up, and implants that also affect your
attributes. You will never catch up skillwise but to go from level 1 to
level 4 in a skill takes not much time compared to the long treks of 20+
days for level 5 skills that many of the older players trains.

If you dont like PVP you can do other things such as missions/PVE, mining,
building, researching, or simple trading. There is several thousand star
systems in eve. Ranging for 1.0 security systems to 0.0 security systems.
Where 0.4-0.0 is basically lawless and you enter at own risk and 1.0-0.5 is
protected by Concorde police forces. If you are in a corperation or an
alliance that have a legal sanctioned war going on you wont be safe anywhere
though.

If you are a bit industrious as a new player, you try join a good player
corperation. You will get aided with gear and how to play the game. New
players are not useless, if you dont like PVP much you can easily train up
fast to use a hauler (Industrial ship), to help in mining operations, do
trade runs etc while build up your skills. If you are more combat oriented
you can do PVE as a new player, but with low level NPC's. If you want do to
PVP you would be usefull as a tackler. That could be described as cannon
fodder ;-) However its like pilot a fast ship with scramblers on to disable
the target long enough so the rest of your mates can bring it down.

There is 4 main factions in EVE. Caldari, Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar.
Doesn't really matter what faction you start with, unless you are into
roleplay. Yes, there is many players who roleplay in EVE as well. Especially
Amarr and Minmatar. Amarr being evil slave keepers and well Minmatar's the
ex-enslaved. So called Minmatar Freedom fighters and Amarr corp's have
running fights all the time.
Ships and weapons are faction based, but nothing keep you from training the
required skills needed to fly another factions ships and to use their
weapons. Amarr's use lasers, Caldari missiles and rails, Gallente being more
blasters and drones while Minmatar use projectile weapons.

EVE is not sharded, it runs on one server. Some 55k subscribers or so atm I
think. At peak hours there is about 10-12k players online at once. Its hard
to tell someone how great and good eve is, you need to experience it
yourself and then just try it. Either you like it or you dont.

There is a 14 day buddy program available. If you know someone who plays EVE
they can refer you and you get a 14 days access pass. Only thing you need to
do then is to download the EVE client from
http://www.eve-online.com/download/ (about 450 mb).

If someone want me to refer them, I can do that, but you would need to email
me a valid email address that the 14 day pass get sent too.
 

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On 2005-03-01, Erland Andreassen <wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> wrote:

> EVE is not sharded, it runs on one server. Some 55k subscribers or so atm I
> think. At peak hours there is about 10-12k players online at once. Its hard
> to tell someone how great and good eve is, you need to experience it
> yourself and then just try it. Either you like it or you dont.

That's not a very big player base which is why they only have one
server.

I liked Eve for about 6 weeks. Then they released their second
update which essentially said "if you're not in a corp with other
players you will never get a chance to get to this content." I
quit, and Eve has the distinction of keeping its 55k subscribers
and nobody new because of the way the skill system is setup. I
cannot play catchup. It's all time based. Why bother?
 
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>> EVE is not sharded, it runs on one server. Some 55k subscribers or so atm
>> I
>> think. At peak hours there is about 10-12k players online at once. Its
>> hard
>> to tell someone how great and good eve is, you need to experience it
>> yourself and then just try it. Either you like it or you dont.

> That's not a very big player base which is why they only have one
> server.

That is actually quite a lot for a unsharded game such as EVE. And their
intention was never to run several shards in the first place, they wanted
everything in one gaming universe on one server.

> I liked Eve for about 6 weeks. Then they released their second
> update which essentially said "if you're not in a corp with other
> players you will never get a chance to get to this content." I
> quit, and Eve has the distinction of keeping its 55k subscribers
> and nobody new because of the way the skill system is setup. I
> cannot play catchup. It's all time based. Why bother?

I see new players all the time, and CCP doesnt have any massive marketing
around their game. I get the impression most of the players who join does so
because of knowning someone who already play EVE, or heard about it through
newsgroups, or on the net otherwise.

EVE is a multiplayer game, and as such you are not supposed to do everything
in the game alone. You need some social skills and actually learn how to
work with other players to be able to perfom certain tasks in the game. If
you are not prepared to do so, then why play a MMORPG in the first place?

The skill system is good as it is. You are not supposed to play catch up
with everyone else, because thats not the issue, the issue is to grow your
own character and train him/her the way you want, and become the character
you want it to be. There is afaik over 200 different skills in the game at
current time, no one is able to train up all those skills, at least not all
to be fully usefull. "Its not like become level 55 warrior with big ass axe
to crush any skulls" like thousands of others. When I started play EVE there
was players that had played for a good half a year already, I didnt sit down
and cry about them having a head start, thats just stupid.
 
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"human" <worldie@dieli.com> once tried to test me with:

>
> "Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns960BBC76A6819knight37m@130.133.1.4...
>> This is an excellent read, by an excellent writer, who just so
>> happens to also be a scumbag.
>>
>> http://static.circa1984.com/the-big-scam.html
>>
>> --
>>
>> Knight37
>>
>> The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
>
> This was posted here several months ago, it's originally from the
> Something Awful forums if memory serves. My impression of it then was
> that it was loosely based on something the author briefly fantasized
> about doing. There's little doubt in my mind that it's embellished
> substantially, and the actual scam is probably invented entirely.
> There is no hard eveidence or corroborating accounts of any of the
> more dramatic elements of it, nor of any real scam whatsoever. And
> parts of the story ring hollow. The library thing, for instance, is
> 100% unbelievable (a library with a phone sitting around that has a
> dedicated number rather than an extension?). The ending feels more
> like a literary device than realistic as well. In real life any
> non-sociopath would have felt a strong urge to give the money back
> (since he had no use for it), but that wouldn't have made a good
> ending to the story, so he gives it to some random player instead.

I agree with your point up to the last part.

Sadly, there are a LOT of closet-sociopaths who play MMORPGs. I wouldn't at
all be surprised if someone just threw the money away (either to another
player or just deleted it) before giving it back to the people he
successfully griefed. Griefing is the entire point of what they do, they
get cheap thrills by making other people miserable.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
 

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On 2005-03-01, Erland Andreassen <wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> wrote:

> I see new players all the time, and CCP doesnt have any massive marketing
> around their game. I get the impression most of the players who join does so
> because of knowning someone who already play EVE, or heard about it through
> newsgroups, or on the net otherwise.

When E&B closed its doors those players were offered Eve
subscriptions. Almost every MMO site has a Eve free trial
banner. They've got plenty of marketting.

> EVE is a multiplayer game, and as such you are not supposed to do everything
> in the game alone. You need some social skills and actually learn how to
> work with other players to be able to perfom certain tasks in the game. If
> you are not prepared to do so, then why play a MMORPG in the first place?

That's fine and dandy but it requires way too much player
interaction to get anything done other than running PvE missions
solo (which gets repetitive fast).

> The skill system is good as it is. You are not supposed to play catch up
> with everyone else, because thats not the issue, the issue is to grow your
> own character and train him/her the way you want, and become the character
> you want it to be.

I'm not paying for 6 months and waiting those 6 months to have a
character that is better than everyone who joined within those 6
months. It's a scam by CCP.
 
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On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 22:20:03 +0100, "Erland Andreassen"
<wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> wrote:

>If someone want me to refer them, I can do that, but you would need to email
>me a valid email address that the 14 day pass get sent too.

I've just emailed you. :)

--

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
 
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James Garvin wrote:

> Erland Andreassen wrote:
>
> > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like EVE is just Trade Wars for
> > > 2005???
> >
> >
> > Dont know what trade wars is. Check www.eve-online.com for info about EVE.
> > Trade is just a small part of EVE. Biggest part is player interaction and
> > PVP. But if you dont like PVP you can do PVE and trade and other
> > professions as well.
>
> Having looked at the uber cool screen shots. What would you folks rate EVE?
> It looks and sounds cool, but how does it play? How does it compare to other
> online games?
<end quote>

Well, the screenshot may look cool, however I'll rate it as "King of grinder".
All skilling in the game require real world hours to raise - they could get to
days to improve one point in a high rank skill (like in the story in the link,
copying the blue print will take 6 days - 6 actual days in real world time. And
if you decided to go the miner way, let me tell you what I experianced: my
tiny-weenie beginner ship with only 60 cargo space, will take around 20 minute
to mine a full load, which after processing will only net me a couple thousand
isk (the currency of EVE), 3k at the best. An industrial ship will cost some
where 800k (a (funtionally) very limited one) to over millions, I've met one
guy (actually he is the one recommend me to try the game - I met him in some
other MMORPG) who have a decent Industrial ship and, to ge a full load with 4
large mining laser, it will take him 5~6 hours - real world hours. You can't do
much other than chatting viewing the *very* *huge* galaxy map and maybe plan
your trade route when you have got the capital to do trade route, while waiting
for the cargo hold to be filled. You could park your industrial mining ship in
a 0.9 or 1.0 sector and go for a nap, a movie and some games in the arcade and
back to your computer and you still might need to wait another 10 to 20 minutes
to travel to the nearest mining station.

As for battle and navigation, it's simply
point-click-and-get-to-your-destination(tm), during battle all you can do is
cycle your target and issue what weapon to be fired. I'd actually reinstall
Freelancer if I want any *real* space adventure and *fun* space battle.

My conclusion is: play this game if you would reach ecstacy by staring at some
nice space screenies (actually almost *ALL* space games have that kinda
screenies) and you have lots of time to waste, and so much extra money to pay
for your skill and mine grinding.


I stopped playing in the first week of the 14 days trial. I simply don't have
so much time to waste. Besides, a half decent Korean MMORPG would be much fun
then this game, at least that's how it appear to me.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
"Aaaaah yourself!.....Uh, oh-o!"
-Serious 'Second Encounter' Sam-
-------------------------------------------------------------
 
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"Erland Andreassen" <wsg@-nospam-lways.online.no> wrote in
news:8yRUd.103$ai7.2026@news2.e.nsc.no:

>
>> Excellent read. =)
>
> Fiction always is (well most of the time). There is things in his
> story that doesnt add up, things that people that been playing EVE for
> a good while would spot ;-)
>

Erm... you'd say that, but that didn't stop Morbor scamming millions of ISK
from people :)


--
Andy @ ZRN
"Jesus Saves, Allah Preserves, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a good
sandwich!"
 
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>> I see new players all the time, and CCP doesnt have any massive marketing
>> around their game. I get the impression most of the players who join does
>> so
>> because of knowning someone who already play EVE, or heard about it
>> through
>> newsgroups, or on the net otherwise.

> When E&B closed its doors those players were offered Eve
> subscriptions. Almost every MMO site has a Eve free trial
> banner. They've got plenty of marketting.

Marketing online at certain websites, compared to marketing out in the real
world like they had for WOW is 2 different things.

>> EVE is a multiplayer game, and as such you are not supposed to do
>> everything
>> in the game alone. You need some social skills and actually learn how to
>> work with other players to be able to perfom certain tasks in the game.
>> If
>> you are not prepared to do so, then why play a MMORPG in the first place?

> That's fine and dandy but it requires way too much player
> interaction to get anything done other than running PvE missions
> solo (which gets repetitive fast).

No it doesn't. And as you don't want to do PVE it seems, then PVP is left,
and you need to be more than 1 to actually do PVP ;-)
You need to be at least 2 people for that to happen.

>> The skill system is good as it is. You are not supposed to play catch up
>> with everyone else, because thats not the issue, the issue is to grow
>> your
>> own character and train him/her the way you want, and become the
>> character
>> you want it to be.

> I'm not paying for 6 months and waiting those 6 months to have a
> character that is better than everyone who joined within those 6
> months. It's a scam by CCP.

Why are you waiting 6 months? You are supposed to play the game, regardless
of your skills, skills get trained as you progress with the game.
Skills cost ISK (cash) to buy , and you need to actually play the game to
aquire that, so you can buy new skills. Tbh, you seem like a cry baby that
rather should keep to singel player games. ;-)