WOW Stop charging and selling Games

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As a WOW addict I love playing the game but the problems with lag server
crashes and other tech problems if anything in my opinion are getting worse
not better. Blizzard in my eyes anyway has been a very reputable company
but they are now getting just like all the rest. The game is too far along
to be given a pass that it is new and going through growing pains which I
don't believe in in the first place. the idea they didn't know it was going
to be so popular is preposterous. Beta testing applications and sales
orders are made far in advance of actually arriving on shelves they know and
they know what their hardware and software can handle. In terms of too many
people the solution is simple stop selling games and stop charging monthly
fees until you get it right. Don't fix it on our nickels.
On top of that there seems to be no control or limit that they allow on
servers so the new people often get brand new less crowded servers while the
original supporters of the game get stuck on crowded ones because they have
been around the longest. I love this games gameplay but it's graphics were
designed so more low end computers could play it and it would graphically be
less "stressful" on internet play. There are no lovely vistas or long term
clear views in WOW like EQor EQ2 because of this. You can't see very far
ahead and if you do its fog. Not a complaint and with the cartoony choice
of graphics it goes ok but if making that compromise doesn't make in run
nicely then it matters.
Many people are really getting fedup as the problems continue and the
new patch for many has made things worse. Right now till resolved they
should cut off new members on crowded servers. Offer those on crowed
servers the right to move with all their stuff to new servers. Stop charging
or discount monthly fees. And bight the bullet and stop selling new games
till it is running properly. Retail or wholesaling of a product you know is
defective has ramifications. I suspect there is fundamental problems with
the coding as this is there first venture into online gaming hell as good as
they usually are. If not and it;s just too many people playing then they
have only themselves to blame.


--
The people who can smile when things go wrong have found someone else to
blame

Bunboy
 
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maybe they're doing it on purpose so people play less and can't get to
max level in 2 weeks :)
 

Shadows

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On 2005-03-03, luong <BLuong@onlinesupplier.com> wrote:

> Oh, and don't exaggerate. I never said, "oh, all MMOs don't work." I said,
> all MMO's have problems. It's common.

No it's not. That's why people are upset at Blizzard. It's not
common to have continous issues three months after release. Why
do you say its common if you only played EQ and EQ2 for one day?
 
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What nonsense about Blizzard being new at this it's now three months in and
surely they had the money ability to hire people that were not new at this
type of game. Of course they knew of these problems in beta they had too yet
put it out and let us pay while they learn to fix it. I also love the one
about be man and quit if you don't like what you paid for not working don't
complain. All of the problem's are being resolved on the customers time and
money not Blizzard's. Nice work if you can get it.



"shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd2clsb.90m.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
> On 2005-03-03, luong <BLuong@onlinesupplier.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh, and don't exaggerate. I never said, "oh, all MMOs don't work." I
>> said,
>> all MMO's have problems. It's common.
>
> No it's not. That's why people are upset at Blizzard. It's not
> common to have continous issues three months after release. Why
> do you say its common if you only played EQ and EQ2 for one day?
 
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"bunboy" <bunboy@cox.net> once tried to test me with:

> On top of that there seems to be no control or limit that they
> allow on
> servers so the new people often get brand new less crowded servers
> while the original supporters of the game get stuck on crowded ones
> because they have been around the longest. I love this games
> gameplay but it's graphics were designed so more low end computers
> could play it and it would graphically be less "stressful" on internet
> play. There are no lovely vistas or long term clear views in WOW like
> EQor EQ2 because of this. You can't see very far ahead and if you do
> its fog. Not a complaint and with the cartoony choice of graphics it
> goes ok but if making that compromise doesn't make in run nicely then
> it matters.

Have you gone in and played with the video settings? I can see a damn long
way away in WoW, but I wasn't seeing this until I changed my settings in
the video options.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
 
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On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 10:54:19 -0800, "bunboy" <bunboy@cox.net> wrote:

>As a WOW addict I love playing the game but the problems with lag server
>crashes and other tech problems if anything in my opinion are getting worse
>not better. Blizzard in my eyes anyway has been a very reputable company
>but they are now getting just like all the rest. The game is too far along
>to be given a pass that it is new and going through growing pains which I
>don't believe in in the first place. the idea they didn't know it was going
>to be so popular is preposterous. Beta testing applications and sales
>orders are made far in advance of actually arriving on shelves they know and
>they know what their hardware and software can handle. In terms of too many
>people the solution is simple stop selling games and stop charging monthly
>fees until you get it right. Don't fix it on our nickels.

.... rest of rant deleted.....

Blizzard is deliberately limiting shipments of Wow
in countries already on-line, and delaying the release
elsewhere until they have dealt with the issues of server-
capacity and lag.

Maybe you are unlucky where you are. Two of my sons
play Wow enjoy it greatly, and have little trouble - DSL/ West
coast US.

As for the graphics - Blizzard made the right choices
with regard to polygon count, depth of view etc, so that
you did not need dual 6800GTs to run it. And the graphics
( as they are ) are quite pretty, and definitely serve
the game-play just fine. Blizzard always has the future
opportunity to update graphics in line with the future
bulk of gaming PCs, just as Turbine is planning to
do with the venerable but still quite popular AC1.

John Lewis
 
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>Blizzard is deliberately limiting shipments of Wow
>in countries already on-line, and delaying the release
>elsewhere until they have dealt with the issues of server-
>capacity and lag.

So how come they released it in the UK? UK customers have all the
problems the US ones are complaining about. Seems to me they didn't
fix it at all but choose to release it anyway.
 
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On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:16:29 -0800, bunboy wrote:

> What nonsense about Blizzard being new at this it's now three months in and
> surely they had the money ability to hire people that were not new at this
> type of game. Of course they knew of these problems in beta they had too yet
> put it out and let us pay while they learn to fix it. I also love the one
> about be man and quit if you don't like what you paid for not working don't
> complain. All of the problem's are being resolved on the customers time and
> money not Blizzard's. Nice work if you can get it.

Not to mention that they should have learned *something* from battle.net.
I'm presuming now the only thing they learned from that is if you let
duping and cheating become rampant you'll lose customers. They'd better
wake up pretty quick to the fact that if you don't solve the technical
issues that that will lose you customers just as easily.
--
RJB
3/3/2005 9:00:29 AM

The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
lead all his customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores
the fact that it was he who by peddling second-hand, second-rate
technology, led them all into it in the first place.
--Douglas Adams Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
 
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Because I've played other MMORPGs before. Lag is a common problem.
Downtime is a common problem. Maybe some have more downtime then other,
it's still common. My roommate has played EQ1 for about...five years now I
believe. I occassionally hear about lag from her. She's currently playing
EQ2 now. I occassionally hear about lag from her too. She's also, now
playing WoW with me, my boyfriend, and some real life friends. The point
is, you can't please everyone.

And believe me, I will cancel my account if I feel Blizzard isn't improving.
But right now, I don't feel that way. I'm paying for a game that I enjoy to
play. When I want to play, I don't have a problem getting on. So
everything is all good and dandy with the world.


"shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd2clsb.90m.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
> On 2005-03-03, luong <BLuong@onlinesupplier.com> wrote:
>
> > Oh, and don't exaggerate. I never said, "oh, all MMOs don't work." I
said,
> > all MMO's have problems. It's common.
>
> No it's not. That's why people are upset at Blizzard. It's not
> common to have continous issues three months after release. Why
> do you say its common if you only played EQ and EQ2 for one day?
 
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That's it Luong as long as things are ok with you who cares about others
haveing problems you have no responsibility to your fellow gamers. People
at Blizzard and in the industry count on people like you.


"luong" <BLuong@onlinesupplier.com> wrote in message
news:LiuVd.5835$2s.5682@lakeread06...
> Because I've played other MMORPGs before. Lag is a common problem.
> Downtime is a common problem. Maybe some have more downtime then other,
> it's still common. My roommate has played EQ1 for about...five years now
> I
> believe. I occassionally hear about lag from her. She's currently
> playing
> EQ2 now. I occassionally hear about lag from her too. She's also, now
> playing WoW with me, my boyfriend, and some real life friends. The point
> is, you can't please everyone.
>
> And believe me, I will cancel my account if I feel Blizzard isn't
> improving.
> But right now, I don't feel that way. I'm paying for a game that I enjoy
> to
> play. When I want to play, I don't have a problem getting on. So
> everything is all good and dandy with the world.
>
>
> "shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnd2clsb.90m.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
>> On 2005-03-03, luong <BLuong@onlinesupplier.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Oh, and don't exaggerate. I never said, "oh, all MMOs don't work." I
> said,
>> > all MMO's have problems. It's common.
>>
>> No it's not. That's why people are upset at Blizzard. It's not
>> common to have continous issues three months after release. Why
>> do you say its common if you only played EQ and EQ2 for one day?
>
>
 
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I got in a car accident and broke an arm or two last week. So I can't work
and pay my rent now. Since you're a fellow human being, wanna send some
money my way? Just to show that you care?

No? I really didn't think so. I don't know you, you don't know me. My
problem isn't your problem, and vice versa.

"bunboy" <bunboy@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ruuVd.1957$8k2.1435@fed1read03...
> That's it Luong as long as things are ok with you who cares about others
> haveing problems you have no responsibility to your fellow gamers.
People
> at Blizzard and in the industry count on people like you.
>
>
> "luong" <BLuong@onlinesupplier.com> wrote in message
> news:LiuVd.5835$2s.5682@lakeread06...
> > Because I've played other MMORPGs before. Lag is a common problem.
> > Downtime is a common problem. Maybe some have more downtime then other,
> > it's still common. My roommate has played EQ1 for about...five years
now
> > I
> > believe. I occassionally hear about lag from her. She's currently
> > playing
> > EQ2 now. I occassionally hear about lag from her too. She's also, now
> > playing WoW with me, my boyfriend, and some real life friends. The
point
> > is, you can't please everyone.
> >
> > And believe me, I will cancel my account if I feel Blizzard isn't
> > improving.
> > But right now, I don't feel that way. I'm paying for a game that I
enjoy
> > to
> > play. When I want to play, I don't have a problem getting on. So
> > everything is all good and dandy with the world.
> >
> >
> > "shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
> > news:slrnd2clsb.90m.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
> >> On 2005-03-03, luong <BLuong@onlinesupplier.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Oh, and don't exaggerate. I never said, "oh, all MMOs don't work."
I
> > said,
> >> > all MMO's have problems. It's common.
> >>
> >> No it's not. That's why people are upset at Blizzard. It's not
> >> common to have continous issues three months after release. Why
> >> do you say its common if you only played EQ and EQ2 for one day?
> >
> >
>
>
 

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On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 04:29:44 -0800, "luong" <BLuong@onlinesupplier.com>
wrote:

>I don't understand people who keep comparing WoW with EQ. If that's the
>case then obviously WoW isn't the MMORPG for you (and vice versa.)

True.

> Another thing I dont understand is people complaining
>about content. WoW launched not too long ago, you know. Expansions haven't
>came out yet!

Er... OK, you lost me here. If people are complaining about lack of
content in an online game that came out TWO MONTHS ago, that's not
because they are impatient, it's because there is a lack of content.

And that's bad. Lack of content means you expect eachother to
entertain themselves with online social features. And as we've seen
with other games, that doesn't work. The social features need a
context or it's just an internet chat room. There has to be an
activity, a goal, something fun that people are doing while they
socialize.

>I don't even expect it to come out until beginning of summer
>or late spring.

Again... that's a problem. If you expect an expansion to fix a lack of
content I suspect you will be dissappointed. Just as a matter of
curiosity, what kind of "lack of conent" are we talking about? The
Dark Age of Camelot unfinished game thing, or teh Ultima Online/SWG
"there's not much game there" thing?

>Yes, I do get annoyed with the downtime. But it's to be expected.
>Considering this is Blizzard's FIRST MMORPG, it's pretty good. In fact, the
>game is awesome. And that's my personal opinion.

I'm glad you like it. I recall the last time I liked on MMORPG, with
Everquest. It's a good feeling. I felt that way about DAoC for a few
weeks, but my high hopes for it made me even more discouraged when I
saw how shallow and flawed it was.

>EQ2 was built from EQ1

Actually, it was built from Star Wars Galaxies. The claim that it's
based on Everquest is a lie. There's no Everquest in that game.

>by the same company, so they have something to reference themselves back to.

A company with the same name, anyway :p

The code is from SWG. The designers are from SWG. The programmers are
from SWG. The Everquest folks quit and moved on about the time
development began on SWG. It seems a pretty safe assumption that a
change in direction was made at that point in time, and the Everquest
folks didn't like it. So they left.

And then SOW, realizing the mistake they had made with SWG, makes a
fantasy SWG called "Everquest 2" and pretends it's based on the game
made by those former employees, when it's actually based on the game
made by current employees, the game that's a turkey.

I call that sleazy. A blatant rip-off.

Pray that doesn't happen to your favorite Blizzard product. And it
may. Because, you know, Blizzard lost it's founding members last
summer. I don't know who made WOW, but I know who didn't. The guys who
made Warcraft et al, Diablo I & 2, Starcraft, etc didn't.
 
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Thanks for the info about the history of EQ1 and EQ2. I really don't care
about either games, so any information I have is just general stuff I read
here and there. =)

And no, I don't expect expansions to be a fix for lack of content.
Personally, I am -not- seeing any lack of contents at all. Level 58 Priest
and I'm still having fun. I mentioned expansions because -other- people
whined about lack of content. The majority whining about it are people from
EQ (Keyword: majority, for the people who wants to tell me that they are
from CoH or DAoC). They are so use to one game and cannot accept other
games for what it is. EQ, FFXI, etc involves a lot of grinding. People who
don't have the time to do this can't enjoy the game much. That's why they
go with WoW. WoW is for everyone, casual gamers and high end gamers.

You just cannot please everyone. It's all a matter of preference. You
either like it or you don't. WoW was a HUGE launched. They had to -double-
the size of their servers to accomodate the population. With that kind of
launched, did people really think there's only going to be a handful of
people who wants to complain? I think not.


"Thrasher" <spectre911@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3iae211ifutisd332uddms119fvm0hnmln@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 04:29:44 -0800, "luong" <BLuong@onlinesupplier.com>
> wrote:
> Er... OK, you lost me here. If people are complaining about lack of
> content in an online game that came out TWO MONTHS ago, that's not
> because they are impatient, it's because there is a lack of content.
>
> And that's bad. Lack of content means you expect eachother to
> entertain themselves with online social features. And as we've seen
> with other games, that doesn't work. The social features need a
> context or it's just an internet chat room. There has to be an
> activity, a goal, something fun that people are doing while they
> socialize.
>
> Again... that's a problem. If you expect an expansion to fix a lack of
> content I suspect you will be dissappointed. Just as a matter of
> curiosity, what kind of "lack of conent" are we talking about? The
> Dark Age of Camelot unfinished game thing, or teh Ultima Online/SWG
> "there's not much game there" thing?
>
> I'm glad you like it. I recall the last time I liked on MMORPG, with
> Everquest. It's a good feeling. I felt that way about DAoC for a few
> weeks, but my high hopes for it made me even more discouraged when I
> saw how shallow and flawed it was.
>
> >EQ2 was built from EQ1
>
> Actually, it was built from Star Wars Galaxies. The claim that it's
> based on Everquest is a lie. There's no Everquest in that game.
>
> >by the same company, so they have something to reference themselves back
to.
>
> A company with the same name, anyway :p
>
> The code is from SWG. The designers are from SWG. The programmers are
> from SWG. The Everquest folks quit and moved on about the time
> development began on SWG. It seems a pretty safe assumption that a
> change in direction was made at that point in time, and the Everquest
> folks didn't like it. So they left.
>
> And then SOW, realizing the mistake they had made with SWG, makes a
> fantasy SWG called "Everquest 2" and pretends it's based on the game
> made by those former employees, when it's actually based on the game
> made by current employees, the game that's a turkey.
>
> I call that sleazy. A blatant rip-off.
>
> Pray that doesn't happen to your favorite Blizzard product. And it
> may. Because, you know, Blizzard lost it's founding members last
> summer. I don't know who made WOW, but I know who didn't. The guys who
> made Warcraft et al, Diablo I & 2, Starcraft, etc didn't.
>
 
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It is if we drive the same type of car and the brakes failed because they
were defective on yours even though mine may be working fine right now
though.
"luong" <bluong@onlinesupplier.com> wrote in message
news:jWJVd.610$Ru.267@okepread06...
>I got in a car accident and broke an arm or two last week. So I can't work
> and pay my rent now. Since you're a fellow human being, wanna send some
> money my way? Just to show that you care?
>
> No? I really didn't think so. I don't know you, you don't know me. My
> problem isn't your problem, and vice versa.
>
> "bunboy" <bunboy@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:ruuVd.1957$8k2.1435@fed1read03...
>> That's it Luong as long as things are ok with you who cares about others
>> haveing problems you have no responsibility to your fellow gamers.
> People
>> at Blizzard and in the industry count on people like you.
>>
>>
>> "luong" <BLuong@onlinesupplier.com> wrote in message
>> news:LiuVd.5835$2s.5682@lakeread06...
>> > Because I've played other MMORPGs before. Lag is a common problem.
>> > Downtime is a common problem. Maybe some have more downtime then
>> > other,
>> > it's still common. My roommate has played EQ1 for about...five years
> now
>> > I
>> > believe. I occassionally hear about lag from her. She's currently
>> > playing
>> > EQ2 now. I occassionally hear about lag from her too. She's also, now
>> > playing WoW with me, my boyfriend, and some real life friends. The
> point
>> > is, you can't please everyone.
>> >
>> > And believe me, I will cancel my account if I feel Blizzard isn't
>> > improving.
>> > But right now, I don't feel that way. I'm paying for a game that I
> enjoy
>> > to
>> > play. When I want to play, I don't have a problem getting on. So
>> > everything is all good and dandy with the world.
>> >
>> >
>> > "shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
>> > news:slrnd2clsb.90m.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
>> >> On 2005-03-03, luong <BLuong@onlinesupplier.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Oh, and don't exaggerate. I never said, "oh, all MMOs don't work."
> I
>> > said,
>> >> > all MMO's have problems. It's common.
>> >>
>> >> No it's not. That's why people are upset at Blizzard. It's not
>> >> common to have continous issues three months after release. Why
>> >> do you say its common if you only played EQ and EQ2 for one day?
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
 
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JUst wanted to add the last few nights the game has crashed more than I have
ever seen it and I have owned it since Christmas. this after a major patch
about a week ago!

Sq2Wd.62$qf7.43@fed1read03...
> It is if we drive the same type of car and the brakes failed because they
> were defective on yours even though mine may be working fine right now
> though.
> "luong" <bluong@onlinesupplier.com> wrote in message
> news:jWJVd.610$Ru.267@okepread06...
>>I got in a car accident and broke an arm or two last week. So I can't
>>work
>> and pay my rent now. Since you're a fellow human being, wanna send some
>> money my way? Just to show that you care?
>>
>> No? I really didn't think so. I don't know you, you don't know me. My
>> problem isn't your problem, and vice versa.
>>
>> "bunboy" <bunboy@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:ruuVd.1957$8k2.1435@fed1read03...
>>> That's it Luong as long as things are ok with you who cares about others
>>> haveing problems you have no responsibility to your fellow gamers.
>> People
>>> at Blizzard and in the industry count on people like you.
>>>
>>>
>>> "luong" <BLuong@onlinesupplier.com> wrote in message
>>> news:LiuVd.5835$2s.5682@lakeread06...
>>> > Because I've played other MMORPGs before. Lag is a common problem.
>>> > Downtime is a common problem. Maybe some have more downtime then
>>> > other,
>>> > it's still common. My roommate has played EQ1 for about...five years
>> now
>>> > I
>>> > believe. I occassionally hear about lag from her. She's currently
>>> > playing
>>> > EQ2 now. I occassionally hear about lag from her too. She's also,
>>> > now
>>> > playing WoW with me, my boyfriend, and some real life friends. The
>> point
>>> > is, you can't please everyone.
>>> >
>>> > And believe me, I will cancel my account if I feel Blizzard isn't
>>> > improving.
>>> > But right now, I don't feel that way. I'm paying for a game that I
>> enjoy
>>> > to
>>> > play. When I want to play, I don't have a problem getting on. So
>>> > everything is all good and dandy with the world.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
>>> > news:slrnd2clsb.90m.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
>>> >> On 2005-03-03, luong <BLuong@onlinesupplier.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > Oh, and don't exaggerate. I never said, "oh, all MMOs don't work."
>> I
>>> > said,
>>> >> > all MMO's have problems. It's common.
>>> >>
>>> >> No it's not. That's why people are upset at Blizzard. It's not
>>> >> common to have continous issues three months after release. Why
>>> >> do you say its common if you only played EQ and EQ2 for one day?
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
 
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"bunboy" <bunboy@cox.net> once tried to test me with:

> JUst wanted to add the last few nights the game has crashed more than
> I have ever seen it and I have owned it since Christmas. this after a
> major patch about a week ago!

We were just talking about you.

What server are you on?

--

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The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
 
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In news:comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, "bunboy" <bunboy@cox.net> posted on Wed,
2 Mar 2005 10:54:19 -0800:

> Many people are really getting fedup as the problems continue and the
> new patch for many has made things worse. Right now till resolved they
> should cut off new members on crowded servers. Offer those on crowed
> servers the right to move with all their stuff to new servers. Stop charging
> or discount monthly fees.

I don't play WoW, but I do play Final Fantasy XI. I know that on the
Square-Enix servers, only so many people are allowed on at a time. So far
I've never been disallowed a chance to play. I'm guessing they probably
shoot for about 80% capacity and assume that of all the people assigned to
a server, only 80% of them will be on at a time, max.

I wouldn't want to even try to play a game where there are no limitations
on how many people can log on to a server. And I'd rather pay a higher
monthly fee if I have to, for quality game play and play time whenever I
want it, not just when server traffic allows it.
--
Final Fantasy XI
Windblade of Windurst on the Odin server
Level 18 Elvaan Warrior
Level 13 Elvaan Thief
Level 11 Elvaan White Mage
Level 07 Elvaan Black Mage
Level 08 Elvaan Red Mage
 
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i own a yacht wrote:
> eq2 has some of the ugliest models i have ever seen,
> and the animations are even worse.

EQ2 models are plastic dolls, WoW models are cartoons: I don't think
either are really anything to write home about.

Mark
 
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"Thrasher" <spectre911@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3iae211ifutisd332uddms119fvm0hnmln@4ax.com...

> The Everquest folks quit and moved on about the time
> development began on SWG. It seems a pretty safe assumption that a
> change in direction was made at that point in time, and the Everquest
> folks didn't like it. So they left.

Maybe. Or maybe it's just that Brad and company sold their hot franchise to
Sony and got rich in the process and then decided to go build their own game
with some fresh ideas. When something like that happens, the founders
usually make out like bandits and the rest of the team doesn't share in the
rewards. So some of them leave with the founders hoping that they can get in
on the ground floor and be early shareholders of The Next Big Thing, and in
some cases just because they want to follow good leaders. In my experience,
whenever anyone says that they left a company because of a "change of
direction", that's not the real reason.

> And then SOW, realizing the mistake they had made with SWG, makes a
> fantasy SWG called "Everquest 2" and pretends it's based on the game
> made by those former employees, when it's actually based on the game
> made by current employees, the game that's a turkey.
> I call that sleazy. A blatant rip-off.

EQ2 definitely doesn't operate anything at all like EQ1 from a gameplay
standpoint, that's for sure. But to call it a sleazy, blatant rip-off is way
too harsh. They've said again and again that EQ2 is NOT EQ1, they've made
this point abundantly clear in articulated communications like forums and
dev chats and even the teaser movies made before release. True,
advertisements have been built on the theme that EQ2 is the successor to EQ1
and the implication is there that this is more of the same game. So, what
else is new? Movies like Matrix III or The Phantom Menace share this same
characteristic with EQ2, they're all built around a fictional world of
characters and stories that continues in the sequels, presented vastly
differently. Ultimately it's the lore and the legend that lives on, not the
presentation, plot or gameplay. In my opinion this is not only a legitimate
use of an existing license, it's preferred.

I enjoyed playing the original EverQuest and I drooled over the thought of a
new manifestation of the game with updated graphics and new solutions to old
problems of classic MMOG design, but based on the original lore, locations
and history of the familiar game world. I think game companies should be
rewarded when they attempt this by taking a new cut on old problems, when
they veer off the safer path of replicating old designs with nothing more to
add than a pretty new face. Attacking this behavior only encourages
stagnation and safe, formulaic approaches, like Westwood's relentless
milking of the Command & Conquer franchise for years and years with so many
clones of the same game I lost track of them. When a game company instead
*tries* to do something different (omg, you can DIE while crafting?) feel
free to criticize the effort for failing in its mission to be fun and
entertaining, but please don't encourage them to stop trying.

> Pray that doesn't happen to your favorite Blizzard product. And it
> may. Because, you know, Blizzard lost it's founding members last
> summer. I don't know who made WOW, but I know who didn't. The guys who
> made Warcraft et al, Diablo I & 2, Starcraft, etc didn't.

The Brevick Brothers (code), Max Schaefer (art) and Bill Roper (producer)
all left Blizzard to form ArenaNet. The Brevick guys were from Blizzard
North and were responsible for all things Diablo. Bill Roper was based in
SoCal with the main Blizzard corporate offices and was the guy responsible
for transforming Brevick's original turn-based Diablo design into a
real-time action game. I think many of the original Diablo heads went with
them, but I believe most of the real-time guys who had built Starcraft and
Warcraft stuck around for WCIII and then went on to build WoW, but I could
be wrong about this part of the story, feel free to chime in with any
details you know. It's hard to say how much of Blizzard's overall success is
attributable to the guys that left, since the Starcraft and Warcraft teams
have certainly contributed HUGE components of that success and are doing it
again more than ever now with WoW. Part of this is the good leadership that
guys like Roper provided. One of the ways I measure a good manager is that
things still get done when he's out of the office or on vacation. I suspect
that Roper and friends left behind a pretty good corporate culture that will
endure in their absence.

--
Bob Perez

"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they
quit playing."
- Oliver Wendell Holmes
 
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In article <112up64ak6da26d@news.supernews.com>,
"Bob Perez" <myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:

> "Thrasher" <spectre911@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3iae211ifutisd332uddms119fvm0hnmln@4ax.com...
> >
> > Pray that doesn't happen to your favorite Blizzard product. And it
> > may. Because, you know, Blizzard lost it's founding members last
> > summer. I don't know who made WOW, but I know who didn't. The guys who
> > made Warcraft et al, Diablo I & 2, Starcraft, etc didn't.
>
> The Brevick Brothers (code), Max Schaefer (art) and Bill Roper (producer)
> all left Blizzard to form ArenaNet. The Brevick guys were from Blizzard
> North and were responsible for all things Diablo. Bill Roper was based in
> SoCal with the main Blizzard corporate offices and was the guy responsible
> for transforming Brevick's original turn-based Diablo design into a
> real-time action game. I think many of the original Diablo heads went with
> them, but I believe most of the real-time guys who had built Starcraft and
> Warcraft stuck around for WCIII and then went on to build WoW, but I could
> be wrong about this part of the story, feel free to chime in with any
> details you know.

The departures you note from Blizzard North (Breviks, Schaefer, Roper),
went on to form Flagship Studios, not ArenaNet.

The fellows who left Blizzard to form ArenaNet were Pat Wyatt, Mike
O'Brien and Jeff Strain (iirc), I think that was around 2000-2001.

Blizzard North is alive and well and very busy :)

just some modest corrections for you-
Rob
 
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"Rob Barris" <rbarris@mac.com> wrote in message
news:rbarris-0CA43A.21541316032005@news.newsguy.com...

> The departures you note from Blizzard North (Breviks, Schaefer, Roper),
> went on to form Flagship Studios, not ArenaNet.

Wow, was I wrong about that, thanks for the significant correction. All this
time I had wondered how these talented guys who had created Diablo wound up
with something as uninteresting (to me) as Guild Wars. I'm not sure where I
was misinformed but I'm glad to learn that they're not involved with GW,
this renews my faith in them. ;-)

The one thing that does concern me is that the Flagship guys don't have much
info on their site about their new game but they do list NAMCO as their
publishing partner. Isn't NAMCO primarily a *console* publisher?

> Blizzard North is alive and well and very busy :)

So we hear. I eagerly look forward to your next product. Good luck, and keep
doing it right.

--
Bob Perez

"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they
quit playing."
- Oliver Wendell Holmes