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Obsidian Entertainment turning its back on KOTOR2

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March 2, 2005 9:36:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

This is really sad. Yesterday Feargus Urquhart announced that
they planned on closing down their forums. The few responses from
Obsidian on their own forums with regards to the chopped ending
in KOTOR2 were not helpful. In fact their graphics programmer
bordered on hostile on the NWN2 forums when he replied to people
complaining about KOTOR2.

I saw one quoted email from Mr. Urquhart who pretty much said
they've moved onto other projects.

Then OE removed the threads discussing the cut ending from their
spoiler forums.

This isn't right. In their first project they killed a good
franchise, told off their customers, and removed any discussion
about the cut material so as to remove controvesy.


I've sent the following email to OE:

To: bizdev@obsidianent.com
Subject: KOTOR 2: Cut ending

Hi,

I saw the way you handled the KOTOR2 discussion regarding the cut
ending on your forums. I'd like to let you know that I'm very
disappointed and let down by the way you handled this matter. I
looked forward to your games when I first heard about Obsidian
Entertainment.

As a result of the way you handled our requests for the ending to
KOTOR2 to be restored I have decided to no longer purchase any
games developed by you. I hope this e-mail and others will
eventually persuade you to give some attention to KOTOR2.

I hope you understand that by destroying the community following
your games you're essentially cutting into your own revenue.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 4:23:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:

> Then OE removed the threads discussing the cut ending from their
> spoiler forums.
>
> This isn't right. In their first project they killed a good
> franchise, told off their customers, and removed any discussion
> about the cut material so as to remove controvesy.

It's their forums. Don't like it, don't go there.

> I've sent the following email to OE:
>
> To: bizdev@obsidianent.com
> Subject: KOTOR 2: Cut ending

Maybe you can get 20 or 30 other people to do the same thing.

That'll show 'em.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 4:23:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns960DC53BC835Aknight37m@130.133.1.4...
> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>
> > Then OE removed the threads discussing the cut ending from their
> > spoiler forums.
> >
> > This isn't right. In their first project they killed a good
> > franchise, told off their customers, and removed any discussion
> > about the cut material so as to remove controvesy.
>
> It's their forums. Don't like it, don't go there.
>
> > I've sent the following email to OE:
> >
> > To: bizdev@obsidianent.com
> > Subject: KOTOR 2: Cut ending
>
> Maybe you can get 20 or 30 other people to do the same thing.
>
> That'll show 'em.
>


No, that won't show em anything, but it DEFINITELY will get their attention
if there is a PETITIONONLINE started!
Related resources
March 3, 2005 4:23:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-03, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>> Then OE removed the threads discussing the cut ending from their
>> spoiler forums.
>>
>> This isn't right. In their first project they killed a good
>> franchise, told off their customers, and removed any discussion
>> about the cut material so as to remove controvesy.
>
> It's their forums. Don't like it, don't go there.

Between "newspapers are irrelevant" and this comment, you're not
acting in a very rational manner. Those forums were setup for a
reason. To foster a community that they could cater to. Otherwise
what's the point?
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 4:31:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Knight37 wrote:
> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>
>>Then OE removed the threads discussing the cut ending from their
>>spoiler forums.
>>
>>This isn't right. In their first project they killed a good
>>franchise, told off their customers, and removed any discussion
>>about the cut material so as to remove controvesy.
>
>
> It's their forums. Don't like it, don't go there.

What? They have NOTHING to gain by cutting threads like the cut material
one. This kind of censoring only shows to people what their attitude is
like to free speech. 3D Realms was caught doing the same thing before.
This is a horrible example of PR.

>
>
>>I've sent the following email to OE:
>>
>>To: bizdev@obsidianent.com
>>Subject: KOTOR 2: Cut ending
>
>
> Maybe you can get 20 or 30 other people to do the same thing.
>
> That'll show 'em.
>

It doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. People will now be avoiding
Obsidian in droves if they act like this.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 4:34:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

GFree <nickt4001@yahoo.com.au> once tried to test me with:

> It doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. People will now be avoiding
> Obsidian in droves if they act like this.

The fanboys who tend to follow forums and then get all upset would like to
think that, but realistically, it isn't going to make a hill beans of
difference.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:19:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Knight37 wrote:
> GFree <nickt4001@yahoo.com.au> once tried to test me with:
>
>
>>It doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. People will now be avoiding
>>Obsidian in droves if they act like this.
>
>
> The fanboys who tend to follow forums and then get all upset would like to
> think that, but realistically, it isn't going to make a hill beans of
> difference.
>

Perhaps not, but maybe word of mouth?

Either that or the company will die a horrable Trokia-style death if the
quality of their products doesn't improve.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:27:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows in <slrnd2cn12.90m.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>:

> Then OE removed the threads discussing the cut ending from their
> spoiler forums.

Huh? I haven't noticed any threads gone AWOL - even the mega thread is
still there: http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29764

It has been locked, though, so no more free Gizkas now.
March 3, 2005 5:27:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-03, Darth Gizka <sherlog@t-online.de> wrote:
> shadows in <slrnd2cn12.90m.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>:
>
>> Then OE removed the threads discussing the cut ending from their
>> spoiler forums.
>
> Huh? I haven't noticed any threads gone AWOL - even the mega thread is
> still there: http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29764
>
> It has been locked, though, so no more free Gizkas now.

I couldn't get to it from the front page. I guess it was put all
the way at the end. The petition guy started a new thread.

Still, them doing this isn't good.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 9:18:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd2cn12.90m.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
> This is really sad. Yesterday Feargus Urquhart announced that
> they planned on closing down their forums. The few responses from
> Obsidian on their own forums with regards to the chopped ending
> in KOTOR2 were not helpful. In fact their graphics programmer
> bordered on hostile on the NWN2 forums when he replied to people
> complaining about KOTOR2.

Without giving away any spoilers, what exactly is the deal with the ending?
The one in the game is unsatisfactory, someone discovered code relating to a
different, maybe longer?, ending, and now people want the original ending?
Explain what's going on for people that haven't played 2 yet.

Tom
March 3, 2005 11:08:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-03, Tom Meyer <fake@email.address> wrote:
> "shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnd2cn12.90m.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
>> This is really sad. Yesterday Feargus Urquhart announced that
>> they planned on closing down their forums. The few responses from
>> Obsidian on their own forums with regards to the chopped ending
>> in KOTOR2 were not helpful. In fact their graphics programmer
>> bordered on hostile on the NWN2 forums when he replied to people
>> complaining about KOTOR2.
>
> Without giving away any spoilers, what exactly is the deal with the ending?
> The one in the game is unsatisfactory, someone discovered code relating to a
> different, maybe longer?, ending, and now people want the original ending?
> Explain what's going on for people that haven't played 2 yet.

The ending, according to anyone who played the game, even most of
the fanboys, is abrupt, and leaves a lot of questions
unanswered. Some players dug through the data files and found
dialog, and notes by the designers for a much more elaborate
ending that explained a LOT of things.

Also there's an entire planet that was removed which would have
explained another part of the main plot.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 12:20:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:15:00 -0600, Melketh wrote:

> "Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns960DC53BC835Aknight37m@130.133.1.4...
>> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>>
>>> Then OE removed the threads discussing the cut ending from their
>>> spoiler forums.
>>>
>>> This isn't right. In their first project they killed a good
>>> franchise, told off their customers, and removed any discussion
>>> about the cut material so as to remove controvesy.
>>
>> It's their forums. Don't like it, don't go there.
>>
>>> I've sent the following email to OE:
>>>
>>> To: bizdev@obsidianent.com
>>> Subject: KOTOR 2: Cut ending
>>
>> Maybe you can get 20 or 30 other people to do the same thing.
>>
>> That'll show 'em.
>>
>
> No, that won't show em anything, but it DEFINITELY will get their attention
> if there is a PETITIONONLINE started!

Yeah, Valve is quaking in their boots. Get it? Quaking... hahahaha!
--
RJB
3/3/2005 9:20:32 AM

Sometimes the need to mess with their heads outweighs the millstone of
humiliation.
--Fox Mulder (X-Files)
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 12:22:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 08:08:04 -0600, shadows wrote:

> On 2005-03-03, Tom Meyer <fake@email.address> wrote:
>> "shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
>> news:slrnd2cn12.90m.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
>>> This is really sad. Yesterday Feargus Urquhart announced that
>>> they planned on closing down their forums. The few responses from
>>> Obsidian on their own forums with regards to the chopped ending
>>> in KOTOR2 were not helpful. In fact their graphics programmer
>>> bordered on hostile on the NWN2 forums when he replied to people
>>> complaining about KOTOR2.
>>
>> Without giving away any spoilers, what exactly is the deal with the ending?
>> The one in the game is unsatisfactory, someone discovered code relating to a
>> different, maybe longer?, ending, and now people want the original ending?
>> Explain what's going on for people that haven't played 2 yet.
>
> The ending, according to anyone who played the game, even most of
> the fanboys, is abrupt, and leaves a lot of questions
> unanswered. Some players dug through the data files and found
> dialog, and notes by the designers for a much more elaborate
> ending that explained a LOT of things.
Prepping for KOTOR3 possibly? The movies did the same thing. Between
Episode 1 and 2 there were unanswered questions.

> Also there's an entire planet that was removed which would have
> explained another part of the main plot.
See above.

--
RJB
3/3/2005 9:21:55 AM

The moon unit will be divided into two divisions: Moon Unit Alpha and Moon
Unit Zappa.
--Dr. Evil
March 3, 2005 12:22:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-03, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:

> Prepping for KOTOR3 possibly? The movies did the same thing. Between
> Episode 1 and 2 there were unanswered questions.

Not really. They have a dialog between you and another character
that very quickly tells you some of these things instead of the
art/animation/cut scenes in the dialog files (along with the
voice acting).

It was cut due to time. There's a comment by a dev in the files
saying as much. Something along the lines of: we'll get to this
if we have the time.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 1:01:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Tom Meyer wrote:
> "shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnd2cn12.90m.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
>
>>This is really sad. Yesterday Feargus Urquhart announced that
>>they planned on closing down their forums. The few responses from
>>Obsidian on their own forums with regards to the chopped ending
>>in KOTOR2 were not helpful. In fact their graphics programmer
>>bordered on hostile on the NWN2 forums when he replied to people
>>complaining about KOTOR2.
>
>
> Without giving away any spoilers, what exactly is the deal with the ending?
> The one in the game is unsatisfactory, someone discovered code relating to a
> different, maybe longer?, ending, and now people want the original ending?
> Explain what's going on for people that haven't played 2 yet.
>
> Tom
>
>

Sort of. Look for the thread called
KOTOR2: Cut out ending (spoilers)

or this link seems to be spoiler-free
http://www.gamespy.com/articles/588/588057p1.html?fromi...
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 1:53:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> This isn't right. In their first project they killed a good
> franchise, told off their customers, and removed any discussion
> about the cut material so as to remove controvesy.

Sadly, I don't think OE can do anything without LA's approval.
They're the one funding it all. If LA gives them money to fix
the ending, so they will. They don't, they won't.

OE's reaction is sadly perfectly understandable from a company
point of view. It's better not to recognize there has been mistakes,
than recognize them and then say they won't fix them.

-Moa Dragon
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 1:53:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Mils Michael" <mickmils@hotmail.com> wrote in news:D 06mri$iv3$1
@news.tiscali.fr:

> Sadly, I don't think OE can do anything without LA's approval.
> They're the one funding it all. If LA gives them money to fix
> the ending, so they will. They don't, they won't.
>

Obsidian has asked Lucas Arts about doing a content patch. On the still-
existing Obsidian KOTOR II forum, a message from Chris Avellone:

"It's a bug fix patch. We haven't heard back from LucasArts on doing a
content patch. We asked some time ago, but they've been busy with the
Episode III game, so no surprise there.

More info as we get it,

Chris"


It's at http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=31125
March 3, 2005 1:53:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-03, Graeme Lindsell <graeme.lindsell@yahoo.com.au> wrote:


> Obsidian has asked Lucas Arts about doing a content patch. On the still-
> existing Obsidian KOTOR II forum, a message from Chris Avellone:
>
> "It's a bug fix patch. We haven't heard back from LucasArts on doing a
> content patch. We asked some time ago, but they've been busy with the
> Episode III game, so no surprise there.
>
> More info as we get it,
>
> Chris"
>
>
> It's at http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=31125

Good to know, that was posted two days ago. Apparently the fan
outcry is having some effect. I hadn't seen this thread. Thanks.
March 3, 2005 6:12:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 18:36:34 -0600, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
wrote:

>This is really sad. Yesterday Feargus Urquhart announced that
>they planned on closing down their forums. The few responses from
>Obsidian on their own forums with regards to the chopped ending
>in KOTOR2 were not helpful. In fact their graphics programmer
>bordered on hostile on the NWN2 forums when he replied to people
>complaining about KOTOR2.

Yeah, that's right Shadows... complain about the only RPG made in a
year, and tell the company who made it that you won't buy any more
games from them. You go, boy.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 7:12:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"RJB" <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:g88zefr279vy.dlg@ID-221573.user.individual.net...
> On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:15:00 -0600, Melketh wrote:
>
> > "Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns960DC53BC835Aknight37m@130.133.1.4...
> >> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
> >>
> >>> Then OE removed the threads discussing the cut ending from their
> >>> spoiler forums.
> >>>
> >>> This isn't right. In their first project they killed a good
> >>> franchise, told off their customers, and removed any discussion
> >>> about the cut material so as to remove controvesy.
> >>
> >> It's their forums. Don't like it, don't go there.
> >>
> >>> I've sent the following email to OE:
> >>>
> >>> To: bizdev@obsidianent.com
> >>> Subject: KOTOR 2: Cut ending
> >>
> >> Maybe you can get 20 or 30 other people to do the same thing.
> >>
> >> That'll show 'em.
> >>
> >
> > No, that won't show em anything, but it DEFINITELY will get their
attention
> > if there is a PETITIONONLINE started!
>
> Yeah, Valve is quaking in their boots. Get it? Quaking... hahahaha!
> --

yep, it's UNREAL.

nyuk nyuk!
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 12:48:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 3 Mar 2005 01:34:52 GMT, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:

>GFree <nickt4001@yahoo.com.au> once tried to test me with:
>
>> It doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. People will now be avoiding
>> Obsidian in droves if they act like this.
>
>The fanboys who tend to follow forums and then get all upset would like to
>think that, but realistically, it isn't going to make a hill beans of
>difference.

"So tell me, Knight -- or should I call you Mr 37 -- what brought you to
the Obsidian forums?"

"My entertainment. I came to the forums for the flame wars."

"Flame wars? We're a moderated bulletin board."

"I was misinformed."


--
Hong Ooi | "COUNTERSRTIKE IS AN REAL-TIME
hong@zipworld.com.au | STRATEGY GAME!!!"
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | -- RR
Sydney, Australia |
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 3:40:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 01:31:56 GMT, GFree <nickt4001@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

>one. This kind of censoring only shows to people what their attitude is
>like to free speech.

You have no right to free speech on someone else's forums. No more
than I have a right to free speech in your living room.

--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 6:48:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows wrote:

> Well they haven't removed new threads on the subject but their
> announcement of shutting down the forums still remains. I think
> they're just overwhelmed by people figured out the ending was cut
> in KOTOR2.
>

Sorry; the idea of threads being removed was made by the OP.

So, they're overwhelmed with the fact that there are quite a lot of
smart people out there that can find out these things because the
developers were too cocky to remove the redundant data from the game files?
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 4:38:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 15:12:47 GMT, Thrasher <spectre911@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 18:36:34 -0600, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
>wrote:
>
>>This is really sad. Yesterday Feargus Urquhart announced that
>>they planned on closing down their forums. The few responses from
>>Obsidian on their own forums with regards to the chopped ending
>>in KOTOR2 were not helpful. In fact their graphics programmer
>>bordered on hostile on the NWN2 forums when he replied to people
>>complaining about KOTOR2.
>
>Yeah, that's right Shadows... complain about the only RPG made in a
>year, and tell the company who made it that you won't buy any more
>games from them. You go, boy.
>

So we should accept anything, no matter the quality and just be
grateful to get something? I thought you were the one railing against
bad quality CRPGs and threatening to pull out of the hobby all
together?

Lynley
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 5:09:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote:
>This is really sad. Yesterday Feargus Urquhart announced that
>they planned on closing down their forums. The few responses from
>Obsidian on their own forums with regards to the chopped ending
>in KOTOR2 were not helpful. In fact their graphics programmer
>bordered on hostile on the NWN2 forums when he replied to people
>complaining about KOTOR2.
>
>I saw one quoted email from Mr. Urquhart who pretty much said
>they've moved onto other projects.
>
>Then OE removed the threads discussing the cut ending from their
>spoiler forums.
>
>This isn't right. In their first project they killed a good
>franchise, told off their customers, and removed any discussion
>about the cut material so as to remove controvesy.
>
>
>I've sent the following email to OE:
>
>To: bizdev@obsidianent.com
>Subject: KOTOR 2: Cut ending
>
>Hi,
>
>I saw the way you handled the KOTOR2 discussion regarding the cut
>ending on your forums. I'd like to let you know that I'm very
>disappointed and let down by the way you handled this matter. I
>looked forward to your games when I first heard about Obsidian
>Entertainment.
>
>As a result of the way you handled our requests for the ending to
>KOTOR2 to be restored I have decided to no longer purchase any
>games developed by you. I hope this e-mail and others will
>eventually persuade you to give some attention to KOTOR2.
>
>I hope you understand that by destroying the community following
>your games you're essentially cutting into your own revenue.

No, wasting money on making new endings would cut into their own
revenue.
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 5:09:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> No, wasting money on making new endings would cut into their own
> revenue.

True, but it would affect the sales of their future games (and I don't think
you can dispute this, quality does sell beforehand)
As it is, Kotor3 now has the stigma of "wait for reviews". You think that
won't affect sales?


-Tomi
March 4, 2005 5:09:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-04, Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote:

> No, wasting money on making new endings would cut into their own
> revenue.

It's not a new ending. All the art assets are still in the data
file. They just need to script and test.
March 4, 2005 6:45:38 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-04, Johnny Bravo <baawa_knight@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Because they can. Their forums, their rules. It is up to them and
> them alone to determine what content they will allow. As for why the
> forums are there, plenty of other people find other things to talk
> about rather than trying to slam the company on their dollar.

Most of the discussion has been quite civilized but try posting
for a whole a month on their forums, including the "(self help)
technical support)" forum and not see a single reply. Not one
during all of February. Not a single reply after the PC release
to any of the issues that were brought up by paying customers.

Finally the CEO of OE replies and nicely states that LA has moved
onto other projects and OE has as well. They claim they've learnt
from their mistakes and won't make them with NWN2.

Translation: too bad KOTOR2 barely works for some people and has
a lot of content cut out of it so that it barely makes sense in
the end, but please buy NWN2 when it comes out! We won't screw
you again!

I think after that some people just *snapped*. We don't have many
good CRPG franchises left. OE pissed on the KOTOR series just
like Troika buried VTM.
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 5:36:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Melketh" <abcdef@ghijk.com> once tried to test me with:

>> > To: bizdev@obsidianent.com
>> > Subject: KOTOR 2: Cut ending
>>
>> Maybe you can get 20 or 30 other people to do the same thing.
>>
>> That'll show 'em.
>>
>
>
> No, that won't show em anything, but it DEFINITELY will get their
> attention if there is a PETITIONONLINE started!

LOL.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 5:38:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Melketh" <abcdef@ghijk.com> once tried to test me with:

>
> "RJB" <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:g88zefr279vy.dlg@ID-221573.user.individual.net...
>> On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:15:00 -0600, Melketh wrote:
>>
>> > "Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
>> > news:Xns960DC53BC835Aknight37m@130.133.1.4...
>> >> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>> >>
>> >>> Then OE removed the threads discussing the cut ending from their
>> >>> spoiler forums.
>> >>>
>> >>> This isn't right. In their first project they killed a good
>> >>> franchise, told off their customers, and removed any discussion
>> >>> about the cut material so as to remove controvesy.
>> >>
>> >> It's their forums. Don't like it, don't go there.
>> >>
>> >>> I've sent the following email to OE:
>> >>>
>> >>> To: bizdev@obsidianent.com
>> >>> Subject: KOTOR 2: Cut ending
>> >>
>> >> Maybe you can get 20 or 30 other people to do the same thing.
>> >>
>> >> That'll show 'em.
>> >>
>> >
>> > No, that won't show em anything, but it DEFINITELY will get their
> attention
>> > if there is a PETITIONONLINE started!
>>
>> Yeah, Valve is quaking in their boots. Get it? Quaking... hahahaha!
>> --
>
> yep, it's UNREAL.

I think you Myst the whole point.


--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 5:39:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:

>> It's their forums. Don't like it, don't go there.
>
> Between "newspapers are irrelevant" and this comment, you're not
> acting in a very rational manner. Those forums were setup for a
> reason. To foster a community that they could cater to. Otherwise
> what's the point?

The point is to make lots of money. If the forums are costing them sales,
they go down.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 5:40:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:

> On 2005-03-03, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Prepping for KOTOR3 possibly? The movies did the same thing. Between
>> Episode 1 and 2 there were unanswered questions.
>
> Not really. They have a dialog between you and another character
> that very quickly tells you some of these things instead of the
> art/animation/cut scenes in the dialog files (along with the
> voice acting).
>
> It was cut due to time. There's a comment by a dev in the files
> saying as much. Something along the lines of: we'll get to this
> if we have the time.

The really important thing is...


Are you still going to watch Episode 3?



--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 5:40:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Knight37 wrote:

> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>
>>On 2005-03-03, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Prepping for KOTOR3 possibly? The movies did the same thing. Between
>>>Episode 1 and 2 there were unanswered questions.
>>
>>Not really. They have a dialog between you and another character
>>that very quickly tells you some of these things instead of the
>>art/animation/cut scenes in the dialog files (along with the
>>voice acting).
>>
>>It was cut due to time. There's a comment by a dev in the files
>>saying as much. Something along the lines of: we'll get to this
>>if we have the time.
>
>
> The really important thing is...
>
>
> Are you still going to watch Episode 3?

I'm gonna watch it and be hugely disappointed by it! WOOOOO!!
March 5, 2005 5:40:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-05, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:

> The really important thing is...
>
>
> Are you still going to watch Episode 3?

When it's out on DVD yeah. I'm not stupid enough to show up at
the theatre for it.
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 5:40:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows wrote:

> On 2005-03-05, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The really important thing is...
>>
>>
>>Are you still going to watch Episode 3?
>
>
> When it's out on DVD yeah. I'm not stupid enough to show up at
> the theatre for it.

Sadly, I am. I'm going to go to the theater and wonder what happened to
the Star Wars I loved.
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 5:42:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Hong Ooi <hong@zipworld.com.au> once tried to test me with:

> "So tell me, Knight -- or should I call you Mr 37 -- what brought you to
> the Obsidian forums?"
>
> "My entertainment. I came to the forums for the flame wars."
>
> "Flame wars? We're a moderated bulletin board."
>
> "I was misinformed."

WHy would i need to got toe the formes wehn i kan post to this here blog?

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 6:44:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:

> On 2005-03-05, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>
>> The really important thing is...
>>
>>
>> Are you still going to watch Episode 3?
>
> When it's out on DVD yeah. I'm not stupid enough to show up at
> the theatre for it.

Guess that makes me stupid then.


I figure it's ONLY worth watching on the big screen. Big huge kick ass
special effects spectacular on the biggest fuggin' screen they got.

And as long as it looks cool, I'm hoping I can close my ears when the
cheesy love story dialogue starts and go "la la la la la".

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 6:44:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Knight37 wrote:

> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>
>>On 2005-03-05, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The really important thing is...
>>>
>>>
>>>Are you still going to watch Episode 3?
>>
>>When it's out on DVD yeah. I'm not stupid enough to show up at
>>the theatre for it.
>
>
> Guess that makes me stupid then.
>
>
> I figure it's ONLY worth watching on the big screen. Big huge kick ass
> special effects spectacular on the biggest fuggin' screen they got.
>
> And as long as it looks cool, I'm hoping I can close my ears when the
> cheesy love story dialogue starts and go "la la la la la".

But Ani I love you so
Oh Padi, you are my forbidden love and the force grows strong in my pants!!

*smootch*

BLECH!!!!
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 10:05:31 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

James Garvin <jgarvin2004@comcast.net> once tried to test me with:

> But Ani I love you so
> Oh Padi, you are my forbidden love and the force grows strong in my
> pants!!
>
>

Is that a light sabre in your pants, or... yeah, I guess that *IS* a light
sabre in your pants.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
March 5, 2005 11:14:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-05, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>> On 2005-03-05, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The really important thing is...
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you still going to watch Episode 3?
>>
>> When it's out on DVD yeah. I'm not stupid enough to show up at
>> the theatre for it.
>
> Guess that makes me stupid then.
>
>
> I figure it's ONLY worth watching on the big screen. Big huge kick ass
> special effects spectacular on the biggest fuggin' screen they got.
>
> And as long as it looks cool, I'm hoping I can close my ears when the
> cheesy love story dialogue starts and go "la la la la la".

Perhaps the screen size at home is adequate for action flicks and
I can always hit forward.
Anonymous
March 6, 2005 1:33:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article <slrnd2gqph.b8p.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>,
shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote:
>On 2005-03-04, Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote:
>
>> No, wasting money on making new endings would cut into their own
>> revenue.
>
>It's not a new ending. All the art assets are still in the data
>file. They just need to script and test.

Did they do the voice recordings that would be needed for the extended
ending? If not, that would raise the difficulty of a new content patch.

It's also worth noting that OE likely doesn't have scripters sitting
around doing nothing; they'll be working on NWN2. Taking those people
off NWN2 will slip the schedule for that project, and there are
repurcussions there too. They may have a legal obligation to deliver
NWN2 by some fixed date, and if the NWN2 schedule can't absorb the slip
from transferring resources back to KOTOR2, well...

I don't know the internal details of OE's staffing and project management.
I'd like to see an improved ending to KOTOR2. But there are real
tradeoffs involved. If their scripters spend time extending the KOTOR2
ending, but that slips NWN2 enough that they have to cut corners to make
*that* ship date, have they really gained anything? Or will people like
you just complain that they "obviously" didn't learn anything from the
KOTOR2 problems, and refuse to buy whatever their next game is?

--
Kyle Haight
Anonymous
March 6, 2005 2:12:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article <Xns960FD1FEF1E4Eknight37m@130.133.1.4>, knight37m@email.com
says...
> "Melketh" <abcdef@ghijk.com> once tried to test me with:
>
> >
> > "RJB" <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:g88zefr279vy.dlg@ID-221573.user.individual.net...
> >> On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:15:00 -0600, Melketh wrote:
> >>
> >> > "Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:Xns960DC53BC835Aknight37m@130.133.1.4...
> >> >> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > No, that won't show em anything, but it DEFINITELY will get their
> > attention
> >> > if there is a PETITIONONLINE started!
> >>
> >> Yeah, Valve is quaking in their boots. Get it? Quaking... hahahaha!
> >> --
> >
> > yep, it's UNREAL.
>
> I think you Myst the whole point.
>
>
Well, then, it's certain Doom.
March 6, 2005 2:27:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-06, Kyle Haight <khaight@lefDELETEtistME.org> wrote:
> In article <slrnd2gqph.b8p.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>,
> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote:
>>On 2005-03-04, Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote:
>>
>>> No, wasting money on making new endings would cut into their own
>>> revenue.
>>
>>It's not a new ending. All the art assets are still in the data
>>file. They just need to script and test.
>
> Did they do the voice recordings that would be needed for the extended
> ending? If not, that would raise the difficulty of a new content patch.

Yes. Follow the links. People even posted mp3s of the dialogs
being spoken by the actors. It's all there. It also makes the
endings in PST pale in comparison. Chris Avellone out did himself
this time around but we're left with all the art assets in place
and no animations or scripting.

> It's also worth noting that OE likely doesn't have scripters sitting
> around doing nothing; they'll be working on NWN2. Taking those people
> off NWN2 will slip the schedule for that project, and there are
> repurcussions there too. They may have a legal obligation to deliver
> NWN2 by some fixed date, and if the NWN2 schedule can't absorb the slip
> from transferring resources back to KOTOR2, well...

If you play KOTOR2 it becomes painfully obvious about 2/3rds in
that EVERYTHING is rushed. I saw a couple of glaring typos. I
experienced at least three subplots that were never resolved
because the game just went straight to credits shortly after.

> I don't know the internal details of OE's staffing and project management.
> I'd like to see an improved ending to KOTOR2. But there are real
> tradeoffs involved. If their scripters spend time extending the KOTOR2
> ending, but that slips NWN2 enough that they have to cut corners to make
> *that* ship date, have they really gained anything? Or will people like
> you just complain that they "obviously" didn't learn anything from the
> KOTOR2 problems, and refuse to buy whatever their next game is?

Kyle, when people complain about "suits" ruining games I usually
don't pay attention. Greed drives business.

However, in this case the business sense in releasing such an
incomplete product is simply misguided. They completely screwed
the KOTOR franchise. There's no way you can begin KOTOR3 and not
be completely confused unless it's a prequel.

Have you played VTM: Bloodlines? The plot in that game came full
circle. Albeit it wasn't particularly brain shattering but at
least the game gave you closure. KOTOR2 does not do this. The
ending is essentially a novelist stopping midway and writing:
"..." as the last three symbols at the end of the novel.
Anonymous
March 6, 2005 5:58:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:

> Perhaps the screen size at home is adequate for action flicks and
> I can always hit forward.

Nothing matches seeing a special-effects flick at the mega huge kick ass
digital theater at Grauman's Chinese Theater in Hollywood.

(Not that I get out to Hollywood that much)

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
March 6, 2005 6:51:39 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-06, Kyle Haight <khaight@lefDELETEtistME.org> wrote:

> Now, you want them to take resources away from NWN2 to fill in some of
> the holes in KOTOR2. If they do this, it will have some impact on NWN2.
> The project schedule calls for people to be writing scripts, testing
> content, etc. for NWN2; if those people are instead spending their time
> on fixing KOTOR2, NWN2 will suffer. That isn't fixing the problem, it's
> just moving it around; we'd likely wind up with a fixed KOTOR2 and a
> broken NWN2, and we'll be having this same conversation a few years
> down the line.

Not with me. I never bought NWN or even glanced at it. Fantasy
D&D bores me.

That being said it's their problem. They should make their
environment more productive to meet both goals otherwise there
already is press coverage on how they screwed up their first
game. Not a good thing when your customer base isn't that
mainstream to begin with.

> From a public relations perspective, if that's the choice OE faces, I
> think it makes more sense for them to let KOTOR2 remain as it is. KOTOR2
> already has the reputation of being a buggy and incomplete game, and
> that first impression will persist even if they fix it.

I know a guy who screws up every project he ever worked on and
saves it at the last minute. People who work with him think he's
a hero and a genius because of the theatrics at the end. If you
really want to look at this cynically OE now has a way to really
stand out from the crowd.
Anonymous
March 6, 2005 7:26:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Alaric Fox <usenet@alaric.org> once tried to test me with:

> In article <Xns960FD1FEF1E4Eknight37m@130.133.1.4>, knight37m@email.com
> says...
>> "Melketh" <abcdef@ghijk.com> once tried to test me with:
>>
>> >
>> > "RJB" <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:g88zefr279vy.dlg@ID-221573.user.individual.net...
>> >> On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:15:00 -0600, Melketh wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > "Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
>> >> > news:Xns960DC53BC835Aknight37m@130.133.1.4...
>> >> >> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > No, that won't show em anything, but it DEFINITELY will get their
>> > attention
>> >> > if there is a PETITIONONLINE started!
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, Valve is quaking in their boots. Get it? Quaking... hahahaha!
>> >> --
>> >
>> > yep, it's UNREAL.
>>
>> I think you Myst the whole point.
>>
>>
> Well, then, it's certain Doom.

There's going to be a lot of negative Fallout from this thread, I can
assure you.



--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
Anonymous
March 6, 2005 10:38:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote:
>On 2005-03-04, Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote:
>
>> No, wasting money on making new endings would cut into their own
>> revenue.
>
>It's not a new ending. All the art assets are still in the data
>file. They just need to script and test.

THEN WHY DON'T YOU DO IT YOU LAZY DORK. KOTOR FANS MUST BE THE LAZIEST
GAMERS ON EARTH.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 2:36:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Knight37 wrote:
> Alaric Fox <usenet@alaric.org> once tried to test me with:
>
>
>>In article <Xns960FD1FEF1E4Eknight37m@130.133.1.4>, knight37m@email.com
>>says...
>>
>>>"Melketh" <abcdef@ghijk.com> once tried to test me with:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"RJB" <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:g88zefr279vy.dlg@ID-221573.user.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:15:00 -0600, Melketh wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:Xns960DC53BC835Aknight37m@130.133.1.4...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No, that won't show em anything, but it DEFINITELY will get their
>>>>
>>>>attention
>>>>
>>>>>>if there is a PETITIONONLINE started!
>>>>>
>>>>>Yeah, Valve is quaking in their boots. Get it? Quaking... hahahaha!
>>>>>--
>>>>
>>>>yep, it's UNREAL.
>>>
>>>I think you Myst the whole point.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Well, then, it's certain Doom.
>
>
> There's going to be a lot of negative Fallout from this thread, I can
> assure you.

Careful. Obsidian might organize a Counter-Strike.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 4:49:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

GFree <nickt4001@yahoo.com.au> once tried to test me with:

> Knight37 wrote:
>> Alaric Fox <usenet@alaric.org> once tried to test me with:
>>
>>
>>>In article <Xns960FD1FEF1E4Eknight37m@130.133.1.4>, knight37m@email.com
>>>says...
>>>
>>>>"Melketh" <abcdef@ghijk.com> once tried to test me with:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"RJB" <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:g88zefr279vy.dlg@ID-221573.user.individual.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:15:00 -0600, Melketh wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:Xns960DC53BC835Aknight37m@130.133.1.4...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No, that won't show em anything, but it DEFINITELY will get their
>>>>>
>>>>>attention
>>>>>
>>>>>>>if there is a PETITIONONLINE started!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yeah, Valve is quaking in their boots. Get it? Quaking... hahahaha!
>>>>>>--
>>>>>
>>>>>yep, it's UNREAL.
>>>>
>>>>I think you Myst the whole point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Well, then, it's certain Doom.
>>
>>
>> There's going to be a lot of negative Fallout from this thread, I can
>> assure you.
>
> Careful. Obsidian might organize a Counter-Strike.

If that happens a lot of innocent Blood would be shed. Civilization as we
know it would cease to exist. They'll probably lock me up in the Sanitarium
for even writing this. Ah well, Everquesting for the truth, sometimes I
turn up only Myth.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 6:29:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Knight37 wrote:
> GFree <nickt4001@yahoo.com.au> once tried to test me with:
>
>
>>Knight37 wrote:
>>
>>>Alaric Fox <usenet@alaric.org> once tried to test me with:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article <Xns960FD1FEF1E4Eknight37m@130.133.1.4>, knight37m@email.com
>>>>says...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Melketh" <abcdef@ghijk.com> once tried to test me with:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"RJB" <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:g88zefr279vy.dlg@ID-221573.user.individual.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:15:00 -0600, Melketh wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:Xns960DC53BC835Aknight37m@130.133.1.4...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No, that won't show em anything, but it DEFINITELY will get their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>attention
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>if there is a PETITIONONLINE started!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yeah, Valve is quaking in their boots. Get it? Quaking... hahahaha!
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>
>>>>>>yep, it's UNREAL.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think you Myst the whole point.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Well, then, it's certain Doom.
>>>
>>>
>>>There's going to be a lot of negative Fallout from this thread, I can
>>>assure you.
>>
>>Careful. Obsidian might organize a Counter-Strike.
>
>
> If that happens a lot of innocent Blood would be shed. Civilization as we
> know it would cease to exist. They'll probably lock me up in the Sanitarium
> for even writing this. Ah well, Everquesting for the truth, sometimes I
> turn up only Myth.
>

Damn, that's rather impressive. It's certainly a Far Cry from what I
could think up.
!