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Lip syncing and Miming on Leno...

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Anonymous
January 7, 2005 2:51:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

Was just watching the end of Jay Leno and some guy named Mario, who
supposedly has the #1 song in the country, was obviously lip syncing about
3/4 of the song until it got to the "vocal acrobatics" jamming part toward
the end.

Also, it was VERY obvious the entire band and background singers were faking
the song along with the track. Stuff the drummer was doing wasn't matching
up and the background singers were missing lines.

What the hell is going on people?? I thought these late night shows prided
themselves on being LIVE.

IMHO, if you can't do it live, step away from the ProTools and tuning
software and go pick up your application to Burger King!!!

Didn't the recording industry learn anything from Milli Vanilli or this
generations version, Ashlee Simpson.

Rant off,
Lee
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 4:44:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

>
> I think the expectation that the performance must match the CD is
> too great, and the artists and their management don't want to
> wedge their CD sales.

That's going to backfire on them, real quick. And I remember the
days when live shows did sound like the recording. Managers are too
worried about how the looks than how they sound.


-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mike@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 8:59:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

I think the expectation that the performance must match the CD is
too great, and the artists and their management don't want to
wedge their CD sales.

"Lee K." <leewkelley@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:FeudnSB1H-L1vkPcRVn-ig@comcast.com...
> Was just watching the end of Jay Leno and some guy named Mario, who
> supposedly has the #1 song in the country, was obviously lip syncing about
> 3/4 of the song until it got to the "vocal acrobatics" jamming part toward
> the end.
>
> Also, it was VERY obvious the entire band and background singers were
> faking the song along with the track. Stuff the drummer was doing wasn't
> matching up and the background singers were missing lines.
>
> What the hell is going on people?? I thought these late night shows
> prided themselves on being LIVE.
>
> IMHO, if you can't do it live, step away from the ProTools and tuning
> software and go pick up your application to Burger King!!!
>
> Didn't the recording industry learn anything from Milli Vanilli or this
> generations version, Ashlee Simpson.
>
> Rant off,
> Lee
>
Related resources
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 8:59:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

"Tony Ennis" <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:BypDd.816$lU6.119@attbi_s02...
>
> I think the expectation that the performance must match the CD is
> too great, and the artists and their management don't want to
> wedge their CD sales.
>

I have always ascribed to the same philosophy the Allman Brothers Band
allways had and that is "Do only in the studio what you can do live."
(paraphrased). But the irony is in how the industry AND it's critics have
changed. I seem to recall a time when The Eagles during an early tour were
criticized by the media for SOUNDING TOO MUCH like their album (LP in those
days). People could sit at home and listen to the album but wanted something
a little different, a little extra, a little something special at a live
concert.

Blues
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 9:14:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 23:51:43 -0600, "Lee K." <leewkelley@comcast.net>
wrote:

>Was just watching the end of Jay Leno and some guy named Mario, who
>supposedly has the #1 song in the country, was obviously lip syncing about
>3/4 of the song until it got to the "vocal acrobatics" jamming part toward
>the end.
>
>Also, it was VERY obvious the entire band and background singers

I saw it, and thought that the "impression" was well done. Obviously
nobody can croon and dance simultaneously. We're in a transition time
where verbatim reproduction and simulation overlap; bound to be
some discussion about permissability.

One of our best cultural conservatives has recently said
"The whole audio business is snake oil. You're making people think
there is an orchestra behind those two black boxes, when there really
isn't any such thing. There's some pride in that."

IOW, my ideological agreement with you is fading lately.

FWIW, and thanks, and .....

Chris Hornbeck
"They'd meet at the Tout Va Bien, a cafe just off the highway."
-JLG, _Bande a part_, 1964
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 9:14:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chris Hornbeck wrote:

>
> IOW, my ideological agreement with you is fading lately.

It shouldn't be. The worst part of all this is they are replacing
talented people with fakes for their look and dance moves. In the
process, good, creative, and imaginative music is getting more and more
scarce.
January 7, 2005 9:31:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

>Was just watching the end of Jay Leno and some guy named Mario, who
>supposedly has the #1 song in the country, was obviously lip syncing about
>3/4 of the song until it got to the "vocal acrobatics" jamming part toward
>the end.
>
>Also, it was VERY obvious the entire band and background singers were faking
>the song along with the track. Stuff the drummer was doing wasn't matching
>up and the background singers were missing lines.
>
>What the hell is going on people?? I thought these late night shows prided
>themselves on being LIVE.
>
>IMHO, if you can't do it live, step away from the ProTools and tuning
>software and go pick up your application to Burger King!!!
>
>Didn't the recording industry learn anything from Milli Vanilli or this
>generations version, Ashlee Simpson.
>
>Rant off,
>Lee

a. the tonight show isn't live
b. the people who enjoy this kind of music don't care if its lip sync'ed.
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 9:31:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

OK..taped live.


"Vin" <i@like.snow> wrote in message
news:o 0qDd.62552$P%3.2153939@news20.bellglobal.com...
> >Was just watching the end of Jay Leno and some guy named Mario, who
>>supposedly has the #1 song in the country, was obviously lip syncing about
>>3/4 of the song until it got to the "vocal acrobatics" jamming part toward
>>the end.
>>
>>Also, it was VERY obvious the entire band and background singers were
>>faking
>>the song along with the track. Stuff the drummer was doing wasn't
>>matching
>>up and the background singers were missing lines.
>>
>>What the hell is going on people?? I thought these late night shows
>>prided
>>themselves on being LIVE.
>>
>>IMHO, if you can't do it live, step away from the ProTools and tuning
>>software and go pick up your application to Burger King!!!
>>
>>Didn't the recording industry learn anything from Milli Vanilli or this
>>generations version, Ashlee Simpson.
>>
>>Rant off,
>>Lee
>
> a. the tonight show isn't live
> b. the people who enjoy this kind of music don't care if its lip sync'ed.
>
>
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 9:31:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 06:31:10 GMT, i@like.snow (Vin) wrote:

>a. the tonight show isn't live
>b. the people who enjoy this kind of music don't care if its lip sync'ed. <snip>

....and c. don't have enough intelligence to know what music is,
anyway.

dB
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 12:32:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

In article <L-WdnRQW9_mg1UPcRVn-uQ@comcast.com> blues-jam@newengland.usa writes:

> I have always ascribed to the same philosophy the Allman Brothers Band
> allways had and that is "Do only in the studio what you can do live."
> (paraphrased).

I don't have a problem with studio technology, but I think that bands
should record as bands and not a public figure backed by studio
musicians singing songs selected by producers from a cadre of
commercial songwriters.

> I seem to recall a time when The Eagles during an early tour were
> criticized by the media for SOUNDING TOO MUCH like their album (LP in those
> days). People could sit at home and listen to the album but wanted something
> a little different, a little extra, a little something special at a live
> concert.

I heard Alison Krauss' band on Morning Edition yesterday. One thing
that struck me (and I suppose that it really shouldn't have) was that
one of the members said that when they go on tour, they never change
their set list from show to show - always the same songs, the same
tempo, the same order, just as they rehearsed it. He conceded that to
those in the audience who may have seen more than one show of the tour
it would sound like the same thing, but to the band, because they're
so familiar with the songs, they themselves get off on the subtle
differences among each performance.

But thinking back, most bluegrass bands going back 50 years did the
same songs each show. The order may change, the patter between songs
may change (but the jokes rarely did), and occasionally a new song
would be introduced, usually with the addition of a new band member.
But I don't think that Bill Monroe ever did a show without singing
Mule Skinner Blues (after he recorded it, of course).

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 12:46:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

howldog wrote:

> these people arent interested in musicians, they are interested in
> PERFORMERS. Theres a difference.

Some people are both.
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 1:43:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1105100257k@trad...
>
> In article <L-WdnRQW9_mg1UPcRVn-uQ@comcast.com> blues-jam@newengland.usa
writes:
>
> I heard Alison Krauss' band on Morning Edition yesterday. One thing
> that struck me (and I suppose that it really shouldn't have) was that
> one of the members said that when they go on tour, they never change
> their set list from show to show - always the same songs, the same
> tempo, the same order, just as they rehearsed it. He conceded that to
> those in the audience who may have seen more than one show of the tour
> it would sound like the same thing, but to the band, because they're
> so familiar with the songs, they themselves get off on the subtle
> differences among each performance.


What else is he going to say if he wants to keep his job. I'd rather be a
refuse collection technician.

Sam S.
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 2:19:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

> I remember seeing the Beatles in '64.
>

Yeah, Bernard Purdie did a great job, that night. :-)



-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mike@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 2:25:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

Watching American Bandstand as a kiddie in the late 50s, lip sync was the
order of the day. I didn't know any better....
60s, and live performances on tv started to pop through here and there....
70s and Midnight Special, and yes indeedy, playing it real, real nice....

What's going on now is kin to a pilgrim's progress stopover at Vanity
Fair.... and not so Fair.... as well as not so fair for so many actual
musicians....
But as we all know.... Life is not so fair...

God knows, I miss the Yesterday Abundance of actual Honky Tonks, roots music
of a variety of ilks, to play in.

These days, Slim Pickens.... has anybody used his name for a band?
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 2:40:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

William, you are talking about two different kinds of shows. American
Bandstand was ALWAYS tracked and they made no secret or apologies about
that. Whereas, Leno, Letterman, Conan, SNL and most other late night shows
have always prided themselves on live performances.

Lee

"William C." <misterwilliamc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:347uvrF47g1n5U1@individual.net...
> Watching American Bandstand as a kiddie in the late 50s, lip sync was the
> order of the day. I didn't know any better....
> 60s, and live performances on tv started to pop through here and there....
> 70s and Midnight Special, and yes indeedy, playing it real, real nice....
>
> What's going on now is kin to a pilgrim's progress stopover at Vanity
> Fair.... and not so Fair.... as well as not so fair for so many actual
> musicians....
> But as we all know.... Life is not so fair...
>
> God knows, I miss the Yesterday Abundance of actual Honky Tonks, roots
> music
> of a variety of ilks, to play in.
>
> These days, Slim Pickens.... has anybody used his name for a band?
>
>
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 3:04:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

"Lee K." <leewkelley@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:HtSdnRj3r4fmVEPcRVn-qA@comcast.com...
> William, you are talking about two different kinds of shows. American
> Bandstand was ALWAYS tracked and they made no secret or apologies about
> that. Whereas, Leno, Letterman, Conan, SNL and most other late night
shows
> have always prided themselves on live performances.
>
> Lee

Yeah, it's to hell in a handbag.



> "William C." <misterwilliamc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:347uvrF47g1n5U1@individual.net...
> > Watching American Bandstand as a kiddie in the late 50s, lip sync was
the
> > order of the day. I didn't know any better....
> > 60s, and live performances on tv started to pop through here and
there....
> > 70s and Midnight Special, and yes indeedy, playing it real, real
nice....
> >
> > What's going on now is kin to a pilgrim's progress stopover at Vanity
> > Fair.... and not so Fair.... as well as not so fair for so many actual
> > musicians....
> > But as we all know.... Life is not so fair...
> >
> > God knows, I miss the Yesterday Abundance of actual Honky Tonks, roots
> > music
> > of a variety of ilks, to play in.
> >
> > These days, Slim Pickens.... has anybody used his name for a band?
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 3:14:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 09:46:10 -0600, Joe Sensor <crabcakes@emagic.net>
wrote:

>howldog wrote:
>
>> these people arent interested in musicians, they are interested in
>> PERFORMERS. Theres a difference.
>
>Some people are both.


this is true.

however.

most of what the original poster was complaining about, are pretty
much "only" performers. Singers who are probably not accomplished
musicians, and lip stynk their way thru "shows", and, the demographic
that worships them and buys their albums, doesnt care.

sure there will always be exceptions.
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 3:48:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

In article <znr1105100257k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com>
wrote:

> I don't have a problem with studio technology, but I think that bands
> should record as bands and not a public figure backed by studio
> musicians singing songs selected by producers from a cadre of
> commercial songwriters.

That's the way it's always been. The producers routinely decide who
what when where and how something will be put on an album. Especially
if it's a "new" act.

Bands that have control over what's released are the exception, not the
rule.

RP
January 7, 2005 4:31:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

I think there'll always be a audience for the "make it sound like the
album" bands out there. There's a local cover band in my area that
play current radio-play songs, they play them EXACTLY like the
original artist NOTE FOR NOTE, and they're the most popular club act
in the area.

Reminds me of a show I saw back in college - Johnny Winter "opened"
for Head East (a little backwards in my book, but whatever). Johnny
came out staggering around like he was drunk, drinking a bottle of
bourbon, and he nevered even played a song the whole set - the trio
just broke out into different jams and he absolutely smoked! Then
Head East came out and played their songs just like their album, and
of course ended the show with their one "hit" at the time. I almost
fell asleep...

Short story - my girlfriend at the time and half the audience thought
Head East was awesome and they were soooo much better than that drunk
what's-his-name that came on first , <valley girl voice> Oh-meh-gawd.
The rest of us thought the exact opposite and thought Head East was
lame and boring, while Johnny absolutely killed playing Texas Blues
like nobody's business (this was pre-SRV btw). Just goes to show I
guess, different strokes...

Paul


On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 03:28:45 -0500, "Blues_Jam"
<blues-jam@newengland.usa> wrote:

>"Tony Ennis" <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>news:BypDd.816$lU6.119@attbi_s02...
>>
>> I think the expectation that the performance must match the CD is
>> too great, and the artists and their management don't want to
>> wedge their CD sales.
>>
>
>I have always ascribed to the same philosophy the Allman Brothers Band
>allways had and that is "Do only in the studio what you can do live."
>(paraphrased). But the irony is in how the industry AND it's critics have
>changed. I seem to recall a time when The Eagles during an early tour were
>criticized by the media for SOUNDING TOO MUCH like their album (LP in those
>days). People could sit at home and listen to the album but wanted something
>a little different, a little extra, a little something special at a live
>concert.
>
>Blues
>
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 4:31:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

In article <ha3tt0552k2vud9j7vofgsfmrrh6sb1m1h@4ax.com>, Frisco
<pfran1.NO.SPAM@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think there'll always be a audience for the "make it sound like the
> album" bands out there. There's a local cover band in my area that
> play current radio-play songs, they play them EXACTLY like the
> original artist NOTE FOR NOTE, and they're the most popular club act
> in the area.
>


A whole pile of the Nashville acts have this same philosophy and it's a
drag IMHO.

Around here on most gigs, you get hired to copy what the session guys
did. Some are a LITTLE flexible about it but the majority (especially
the chick acts) are militant about it. They don't care about your own
musical contributions, they want someone who can play well enough to be
a verbatim copycat. You sit in the back with a black shirt on and
try to be invisible so your presence doesn't detract from the
glittering diva out front. I've done them and they're not my
favorite. I got paid well but musically I was uninspired.

I have a close buddy who auditioned for a big money, very well known
Nashville female artist a few years ago. He learned the stuff and
played for them. They dug him and called him back but said "We need
you to get a little closer to the record parts." So he went back and
spent some time getting them parts closer to the album. After his
callback they said "Yeah, that's great but we really need you to do it
JUST LIKE THE RECORD." He told them thanks but no thanks and walked.
I understand his position.

My gig is different in that Charlie doesn't use session guys on his
records. I play on them and I'm free to do whatever I feel. Our
shows are pretty similar thru the year in set arrangement, between song
patter and song arrangements as well. But what I do WITHIN the songs
is up to me. I change up fills and solo ideas nightly. It keeps
it relatively fresh and helps keep us all focused on what we're
playing. Those copycat gigs can easily slip into auto-pilot mode
after on a few shows.



Pat
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 4:37:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

"Sam Savoca" <maxomega69@erols.com> wrote in message
news:347p1jF48jb2qU1@individual.net...
>
> "Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
> news:znr1105100257k@trad...
>>
>> In article <L-WdnRQW9_mg1UPcRVn-uQ@comcast.com> blues-jam@newengland.usa
> writes:
>>
>> I heard Alison Krauss' band on Morning Edition yesterday. One thing
>> that struck me (and I suppose that it really shouldn't have) was that
>> one of the members said that when they go on tour, they never change
>> their set list from show to show - always the same songs, the same
>> tempo, the same order, just as they rehearsed it. He conceded that to
>> those in the audience who may have seen more than one show of the tour
>> it would sound like the same thing, but to the band, because they're
>> so familiar with the songs, they themselves get off on the subtle
>> differences among each performance.
>
>
> What else is he going to say if he wants to keep his job. I'd rather be a
> refuse collection technician.
>
> Sam S.
>
>
Enjoy! I'd rather play with Alison. Lots of bands work that way, and his
description is on the money, IMO. Don't knock it if you've never done it.

Don
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 5:36:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

"Lee K." wrote:

> Didn't the recording industry learn anything from Milli Vanilli...?

Yes they did. You remember they went as far as winning a grammy prior to the
downfall. It's obvious what the industry learned from that.


--
Nathan

"Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 7:41:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

In message <L-WdnRQW9_mg1UPcRVn-uQ@comcast.com>, Blues_Jam
<blues-jam@newengland.usa> writes
>"Tony Ennis" <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>news:BypDd.816$lU6.119@attbi_s02...
>>
>> I think the expectation that the performance must match the CD is
>> too great, and the artists and their management don't want to
>> wedge their CD sales.
>>
>
>I have always ascribed to the same philosophy the Allman Brothers Band
>allways had and that is "Do only in the studio what you can do live."
>(paraphrased). But the irony is in how the industry AND it's critics have
>changed. I seem to recall a time when The Eagles during an early tour were
>criticized by the media for SOUNDING TOO MUCH like their album (LP in those
>days). People could sit at home and listen to the album but wanted something
>a little different, a little extra, a little something special at a live
>concert.
>
>Blues
>
>
I remember seeing the Beatles in '64.

There were so note and sound perfect, I felt slightly disappointed
afterwards.

They may as well have been miming.

Another downer at the time, was when the Kinks were playing live on TV's
Ready Steady Go.

My girlfriend had a reel to reel tape recorder, and she used to record
lots from this show.

I couldn't wait to get to her place later to hear the tape.

Imagine how I felt when she explained that she didn't record it because
they were playing live, and that's never as good as the record.

--
Ian.
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 8:17:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I heard Alison Krauss' band on Morning Edition yesterday. One thing
>> that struck me (and I suppose that it really shouldn't have) was that
>> one of the members said that when they go on tour, they never change
>> their set list from show to show - always the same songs, the same
>> tempo, the same order, just as they rehearsed it.

This is true for many touring bands..they don't have time to change things
around on the road and the show flow stays the same.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 8:18:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

Sam Savoca wrote:

> "Mike Rivers" wrote...

> > blues-jam@newengland.usa writes:

> > I heard Alison Krauss' band on Morning Edition yesterday. One thing
> > that struck me (and I suppose that it really shouldn't have) was that
> > one of the members said that when they go on tour, they never change
> > their set list from show to show - always the same songs, the same
> > tempo, the same order, just as they rehearsed it. He conceded that to
> > those in the audience who may have seen more than one show of the tour
> > it would sound like the same thing, but to the band, because they're
> > so familiar with the songs, they themselves get off on the subtle
> > differences among each performance.

> What else is he going to say if he wants to keep his job.

You're not making excessive sense there. What are you talking about?

> I'd rather be a refuse collection technician.

Nevermind that the man can play the music better than very well. You'd
rather haul garbage than be in a band with Jerry Douglas?

--
ha
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 8:30:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

"Frisco" wrote
>I think there'll always be a audience for the "make it sound like the
> album" bands out there. There's a local cover band in my area that
> play current radio-play songs, they play them EXACTLY like the
> original artist NOTE FOR NOTE, and they're the most popular club act
> in the area.

The same thing seems to go here. You either have to do it exactly like the
original/most recent artist, or play it in a different style like Me First
and the Gimme Gimmes or Hayseed Dixie.

Lee D
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 9:05:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

hmmmm...sounds like Martina....



"Pat McDonald" <patdrums@SPAMFREEmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:070120050950229783%patdrums@SPAMFREEmindspring.com...
> In article <ha3tt0552k2vud9j7vofgsfmrrh6sb1m1h@4ax.com>, Frisco
> <pfran1.NO.SPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think there'll always be a audience for the "make it sound like the
> > album" bands out there. There's a local cover band in my area that
> > play current radio-play songs, they play them EXACTLY like the
> > original artist NOTE FOR NOTE, and they're the most popular club act
> > in the area.
> >
>
>
> A whole pile of the Nashville acts have this same philosophy and it's a
> drag IMHO.
>
> Around here on most gigs, you get hired to copy what the session guys
> did. Some are a LITTLE flexible about it but the majority (especially
> the chick acts) are militant about it. They don't care about your own
> musical contributions, they want someone who can play well enough to be
> a verbatim copycat. You sit in the back with a black shirt on and
> try to be invisible so your presence doesn't detract from the
> glittering diva out front. I've done them and they're not my
> favorite. I got paid well but musically I was uninspired.
>
> I have a close buddy who auditioned for a big money, very well known
> Nashville female artist a few years ago. He learned the stuff and
> played for them. They dug him and called him back but said "We need
> you to get a little closer to the record parts." So he went back and
> spent some time getting them parts closer to the album. After his
> callback they said "Yeah, that's great but we really need you to do it
> JUST LIKE THE RECORD." He told them thanks but no thanks and walked.
> I understand his position.
>
> My gig is different in that Charlie doesn't use session guys on his
> records. I play on them and I'm free to do whatever I feel. Our
> shows are pretty similar thru the year in set arrangement, between song
> patter and song arrangements as well. But what I do WITHIN the songs
> is up to me. I change up fills and solo ideas nightly. It keeps
> it relatively fresh and helps keep us all focused on what we're
> playing. Those copycat gigs can easily slip into auto-pilot mode
> after on a few shows.
>
>
>
> Pat
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 9:07:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2005-01-07, Chris Hornbeck <chrishornbeckremovethis@att.net> wrote:

> Obviously nobody can croon and dance simultaneously.

I've seen Meat Loaf do it!
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 10:14:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 03:28:45 -0500, "Blues_Jam"
<blues-jam@newengland.usa> wrote:

>"Tony Ennis" <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>news:BypDd.816$lU6.119@attbi_s02...
>>
>> I think the expectation that the performance must match the CD is
>> too great, and the artists and their management don't want to
>> wedge their CD sales.
>>
>
>I have always ascribed to the same philosophy the Allman Brothers Band
>allways had and that is "Do only in the studio what you can do live."

I used to ascribe to that philosohy as well. The thing is use as an
example The Beatles Sgt. Pepper album. No way on Gods green earth four
guys are gonna pull that off live. I think what we have is two
different approches here. When in the studio play what is best for
the song not whether or not you can pull it off live. When playing
live make the nessesary adjustments to pull it off live. A few subtle
changes here and there will make it possible to pull off the studio
tune live. Of course you won't get all the nuances or instrmentation
of the studio version but, a great musician will make do just fine.



>(paraphrased). But the irony is in how the industry AND it's critics have
>changed. I seem to recall a time when The Eagles during an early tour were
>criticized by the media for SOUNDING TOO MUCH like their album (LP in those
>days). People could sit at home and listen to the album but wanted something
>a little different, a little extra, a little something special at a live
>concert.

Very true.



Regards
Mike
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 10:19:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

On 7 Jan 2005 09:32:54 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote:

>
>In article <L-WdnRQW9_mg1UPcRVn-uQ@comcast.com> blues-jam@newengland.usa writes:
>
>> I have always ascribed to the same philosophy the Allman Brothers Band
>> allways had and that is "Do only in the studio what you can do live."
>> (paraphrased).
>
>I don't have a problem with studio technology, but I think that bands
>should record as bands and not a public figure backed by studio
>musicians singing songs selected by producers from a cadre of
>commercial songwriters.

Good luck getting that to stop. When you see an act like that, it's
usually because someone bought their way into the business and is
paying a lot of money to have their public figure backed by studio
musicians singing songs selected by producers from a cadre of
commercial songwriters. So as long as mommies and daddies have
disposable millions to throw at their semi-talented offspring, it's
going to be that way.
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 10:19:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

"Boom" wrote
> On 7 Jan 2005 09:32:54 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote:
>
>>
>>In article <L-WdnRQW9_mg1UPcRVn-uQ@comcast.com> blues-jam@newengland.usa
>>writes:
>>
>>> I have always ascribed to the same philosophy the Allman Brothers Band
>>> allways had and that is "Do only in the studio what you can do live."
>>> (paraphrased).
>>
>>I don't have a problem with studio technology, but I think that bands
>>should record as bands and not a public figure backed by studio
>>musicians singing songs selected by producers from a cadre of
>>commercial songwriters.
>
> Good luck getting that to stop. When you see an act like that, it's
> usually because someone bought their way into the business and is
> paying a lot of money to have their public figure backed by studio
> musicians singing songs selected by producers from a cadre of
> commercial songwriters. So as long as mommies and daddies have
> disposable millions to throw at their semi-talented offspring, it's
> going to be that way.

Your posts on this thread are cracking me up. Reality can be that way
sometimes.

Lee D
January 7, 2005 11:20:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

>>I have always ascribed to the same philosophy the Allman Brothers Band
>>allways had and that is "Do only in the studio what you can do live."
>I used to ascribe to that philosohy as well.

why though? i say make the album version the best you can make it because
thats the version people are going to hear a thousand times, most people
will never hear the live version or might hear it once or twice, at best a
handful of times if you're around for a while. i say if the song sounds better
with a full orchestra then put one in, if it sounds better with two overlapping
lead vocal tracks, go for it. who cares if you can't reproduce it live,
maybe you can do one of the vocal melodies on guitar live. wanna overdub
drum tracks? do it if its going to make the song better.

if your songs sound a little different live, a little rawer there's nothing
wrong with that, it makes it interesting. i like it when bands rework their
arrangements, or change melodies, or jam things out, etc.. it keeps things
fresh and it gives me a reason to buy the live album. if i want to hear
the album version well, i'll just put on the album.
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 11:21:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

mf2112NOSPAM*@yahoo.com wrote:

> On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 03:28:45 -0500, "Blues_Jam"
> <blues-jam@newengland.usa> wrote:
>
>>I have always ascribed to the same philosophy the Allman Brothers Band
>>allways had and that is "Do only in the studio what you can do live."
>
> I used to ascribe to that philosohy as well. The thing is use as an
> example The Beatles Sgt. Pepper album. No way on Gods green earth four
> guys are gonna pull that off live. I think what we have is two
> different approches here. When in the studio play what is best for
> the song not whether or not you can pull it off live. When playing
> live make the nessesary adjustments to pull it off live. A few subtle
> changes here and there will make it possible to pull off the studio
> tune live. Of course you won't get all the nuances or instrmentation
> of the studio version but, a great musician will make do just fine.


You're forgetting that the first sessions for Sgt. Pepper took place three
months AFTER the Beatles played their FINAL concert. They were very well
aware that they would never perform any of that material live as a band.

But ignoring that small detail, I still don't think it's a very good
analogy because there's no rule that says the "four guys" have to do it all
by themselves. When was the last time the Rolling Stones played a show
with just the five band members? And as long as you're getting "a little
help from your friends", who would be in a better position financially to
take an orchestra on the road with them? Sure, the backwards stuff & some
of the more involved effects would have to be left out, but I have no doubt
that the Beatles, plus a small orchestra & a handful of extra musicians &
singers could perform most of that material with only minimal changes to
the arrangements.

I think the real limiting factor would be that the venues they had to
perform in (because they were such a strong draw) were so big & loud that
most of the subtleties would have been inaudible anyway. (Which was a big
part of the reason they had decided to stop touring in the first place.

And speaking of the Allman Bros, The other part of their philosophy is "If
you play it the same way two nights in a row, you're out of the band".
That'll put an end to lipsynching pretty quick.
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 11:54:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

There isn't just one type of music. You have music that is "composed" and
music that is open to exploration (obviously that's a broad
description)....My point is some songwriters/arrangers/producers work very
hard to make every part work or express something in a song. It's their
statement. I'm a songwriter and play all of the instruments on recording
sessions. When I come up with a part I chisel away until I have the exact
thing I want. This takes a lot of thought and there is usually a reason that
I choose a note (either technical or emotional). When it comes time to
perform this stuff I expect that the musicians are going to have respect for
what their role is and what it is I've done. Because I understand this
perspective it makes it easy for me to work with people. I can play what
they want and be happy or I can play free. I don't expect to come in and
"change" things to my way.
It's also great to be able to play loose. That's a different style. Just
as great, but in a different direction. Not everything is supposed to be
open for interpretation. What about orchestral music? Do you just throw out
the charts? It's fine that we all have enjoy a different bag of tea. I enjoy
hearing Allison play spot on. I really appreciate the skill each of those
musicians has. It's really amazing. At the same time I enjoy listening to
Medeski, Martin and Wood improvise. Everything has it's place.
the problem with some musicians is ego....It can always be better their
way. Now, I'm not saying all.....But it makes no snese to complain about
something that is not your style, just don't do it and leave it to someone
else who wants to. Can we just concentrate on our strengths?

--litepipe
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 1:44:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

In message <347ukhF48doclU2@individual.net>, -MIKE- <mike@mikedrums.com>
writes
>
>> I remember seeing the Beatles in '64.
>>
>
>Yeah, Bernard Purdie did a great job, that night. :-)
>
>
>
>-MIKE-
>
You mean they weren't live!!!? :-)
--
Ian.
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 2:22:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 7 Jan 2005 09:32:54 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote:


> a public figure backed by studio
>musicians singing songs selected by producers from a cadre of
>commercial songwriters.

Isn't this, really, what has been going on with most of the 'popular'
music since at least the 30s?

It was maybe the 60s when it became a 'badge of honor' for _some_
performers to actually perform what they themselves actually composed
(while the other method continued for others.) But that badge is
largely only recognized by other performers, 'purists', and those who
have deified themselves for having the knowledge of 'how things should
really be'.... not by the majority of the listening public.

IMO, both approaches can produce pleasant results.... and both
approaches can produce dismal results.


====================
Tracy Wintermute
arrgh@greenapple.com
Rushcreek Ranch
====================
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 2:23:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

"Vin" <i@like.snow> wrote in message
news:baCDd.65654$P%3.2281173@news20.bellglobal.com...
>>
> if your songs sound a little different live, a little rawer there's
nothing
> wrong with that, it makes it interesting. i like it when bands rework
their
> arrangements, or change melodies, or jam things out, etc.. it keeps things
> fresh and it gives me a reason to buy the live album. if i want to hear
> the album version well, i'll just put on the album.

Well said. I find it interesting to see how the guitarist makes the
comprimises necessary to play a live show. This is particularly interesting
when there's only one guitarist, and he has to try to cover both rhythm and
lead . There's few things more demanding than playing live as a
three-piece.
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 2:40:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Tracy Wintermute wrote:

>>a public figure backed by studio
>>musicians singing songs selected by producers from a cadre of
>>commercial songwriters.
>
>
> Isn't this, really, what has been going on with most of the 'popular'
> music since at least the 30s?

Yes and no. The difference is that the figure had to sing. And had to
sound good doing so.

Same thing on broadway. Most of those singers would be lost on their
own. But they CAN sing. Or they find a different line of work.
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 2:55:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

"Sam Savoca" <maxomega69@erols.com> wrote in message
news:347p1jF48jb2qU1@individval.net...
>
> "Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
> news:znr1105100257k@trad...
> >
> > In article <L-WdnRQW9_mg1UPcRVn-vQ@comcast.com> blves-jam@newengland.vsa
> writes:
> >
> > I heard Alison Kravss' band on Morning Edition yesterday. One thing
> > that strvck me (and I svppose that it really shovldn't have) was that
> > one of the members said that when they go on tovr, they never change
> > their set list from show to show - always the same songs, the same
> > tempo, the same order, jvst as they rehearsed it. He conceded that to
> > those in the avdience who may have seen more than one show of the tovr
> > it wovld sovnd like the same thing, bvt to the band, becavse they're
> > so familiar with the songs, they themselves get off on the svbtle
> > differences among each performance.
>
>
> What else is he going to say if he wants to keep his job. I'd rather be a
> refvse collection technician.
>
> Sam S.

?

Jvst to be clear, Alison Kravss and Union Station *aren't* in the cvrrent
crop of lip-synch avtotvne advltcontempopopvegasdiva...hold on, I'm getting
all worked vp.

She and her band play live at a very, very, very high level of
accomplishment. The show might be well rehearsed, bvt it ain't dance
rovtines and costvme changes they are rehearsing...it's mvsic.

Dan
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 3:09:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.audio.pro.]
On 2005-01-07, Blues_Jam <blues-jam@newengland.usa> wrote:

> I have always ascribed to the same philosophy the Allman Brothers Band
> allways had and that is "Do only in the studio what you can do live."

That they used that philosophy and still ended up with the piano parts
in Jessica, is enlightening (and pretty discouraging too).
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 4:20:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

"Lee K." wrote:
> "Vin" <i@like.snow> wrote in message
> >"Lee K." wrote:
> >>Also, it was VERY obvious the entire band and background singers were
> >>faking the song along with the track. ....
> >>
> >>Didn't the recording industry learn anything from Milli Vanilli or this
> >>generations version, Ashlee Simpson.
> >>
> >>Rant off,
> >>Lee
> > a. the tonight show isn't live

> OK..taped live.

Sometimes, depending on the "performer," taped dead would be my
preferred choice.

Tho
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 6:27:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

"Matt" <porterdINVALID@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:p cednYeKXKLMq0LcRVn-rQ@giganews.com...
> In defense of Billy Joel, he admitted in an interview (I've lost which
> one) that he had to take "The Stranger" out of his set for a few years
> because the band (especially Liberty) kept making faces and doing funny
> things in an effort to make him laugh and screw up the whistling. He was
> not pre-recording that part of the show. As to the rest, I cannot say
> since I have never seen him live. The video taped live performances I
> have seen, suggest to me that he and the band are really playing. He just
> has amazing piano and vocal (and whistling) chops. Some folks do.
>
> Matt Porter
>
>
I saw Billy Joel during the Storm Front tour in about 1990 or so. A storm
knocked out the power to the arena for a minute. You could hear Liberty
playing a few beats before he stopped. When the power came back on they
picked up where they had left off in the song. Very cool. 99.7634% sure
there was no lip syncing that night. :-)
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 7:26:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

"Don Evans" <gtrdonevans@aol.com> wrote in
news:34837kF47k0p0U1@individual.net:

>>
>> What else is he going to say if he wants to keep his job. I'd rather
>> be a refuse collection technician.
>>
>> Sam S.
>>
>>
> Enjoy! I'd rather play with Alison. Lots of bands work that way,
> and his description is on the money, IMO. Don't knock it if you've
> never done it.
>
> Don
>
>

Plus I'd get to hear that voice night after night.

I'm not one for crystal clear female voices, preferring
the dark timbres of a Chrissie Hynde or a Linda Thompson,
but Alison Krause's voice is a thing of beauty.

JMK
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 7:26:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 04:26:52 GMT, JMK <sorry@so.sorry.net> wrote:

>"Don Evans" <gtrdonevans@aol.com> wrote in

>I'm not one for crystal clear female voices, preferring
>the dark timbres of a Chrissie Hynde <snip>

Hynde sings? She's almost as bad as Linda McCartney!

dB
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 7:29:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

<dr-covell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:iSEDd.7419$wZ2.6316@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

>
> "Vin" <i@like.snow> wrote in message
> news:baCDd.65654$P%3.2281173@news20.bellglobal.com...
>>>
>> if your songs sound a little different live, a little rawer there's
> nothing
>> wrong with that, it makes it interesting. i like it when bands rework
> their
>> arrangements, or change melodies, or jam things out, etc.. it keeps
>> things fresh and it gives me a reason to buy the live album. if i
>> want to hear the album version well, i'll just put on the album.
>
> Well said. I find it interesting to see how the guitarist makes the
> comprimises necessary to play a live show. This is particularly
> interesting when there's only one guitarist, and he has to try to
> cover both rhythm and lead . There's few things more demanding than
> playing live as a three-piece.
>
>

I remember when a great band like the Replacements played live
after "Pleased To Meet Me" came out. Their song "Can't Hardly
Wait" had horns and strings, which they were not gonna tour with.
So guitarist Slim Dunlap played these great fills that essentially
took over the supporting role of the strings and horns while
mimicking neither. It was really cool.

JMK
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 7:56:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

JMK wrote:

> "Don Evans" <gtrdonevans@aol.com> wrote in
> news:34837kF47k0p0U1@individual.net:
>
>
>>>What else is he going to say if he wants to keep his job. I'd rather
>>>be a refuse collection technician.
>>>
>>>Sam S.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Enjoy! I'd rather play with Alison. Lots of bands work that way,
>>and his description is on the money, IMO. Don't knock it if you've
>>never done it.
>>
>>Don
>>
>>
>
>
> Plus I'd get to hear that voice night after night.
>
> I'm not one for crystal clear female voices, preferring
> the dark timbres of a Chrissie Hynde or a Linda Thompson,
> but Alison Krause's voice is a thing of beauty.
>
> JMK

Amen brother, amen.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, change the chemical designation to its common name.
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 9:43:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 17:42:55 -0600, "Lee D"
<leedREEMOOV@access4less.net> wrote:

>>>I don't have a problem with studio technology, but I think that bands
>>>should record as bands and not a public figure backed by studio
>>>musicians singing songs selected by producers from a cadre of
>>>commercial songwriters.
>>
>> Good luck getting that to stop. When you see an act like that, it's
>> usually because someone bought their way into the business and is
>> paying a lot of money to have their public figure backed by studio
>> musicians singing songs selected by producers from a cadre of
>> commercial songwriters. So as long as mommies and daddies have
>> disposable millions to throw at their semi-talented offspring, it's
>> going to be that way.
>
>Your posts on this thread are cracking me up. Reality can be that way
>sometimes.

Yeah, reality is a funny bitch, ain't it?
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 9:55:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:20:23 GMT, i@like.snow (Vin) wrote:

>>>I have always ascribed to the same philosophy the Allman Brothers Band
>>>allways had and that is "Do only in the studio what you can do live."
>>I used to ascribe to that philosohy as well.
>
>why though? i say make the album version the best you can make it because
>thats the version people are going to hear a thousand times, most people
>will never hear the live version or might hear it once or twice, at best a
>handful of times if you're around for a while. i say if the song sounds better
>with a full orchestra then put one in, if it sounds better with two overlapping
>lead vocal tracks, go for it. who cares if you can't reproduce it live,
>maybe you can do one of the vocal melodies on guitar live. wanna overdub
>drum tracks? do it if its going to make the song better.

My opinion is that I'm totally for whatever approach a band wants to
take. If they want to not play anything they can't duplicate live,
that's great. If they want to add a million overdubs like Queen,
that's fine, too. Neither approach is wrong. Me, I like the best of
both worlds...I'm not above adding extra harmonies or overdubbing a
lead for a 3-piece band, but I don't go nuts adding overdubs for hours
and hours. I don't have the patience.

>if your songs sound a little different live, a little rawer there's nothing
>wrong with that, it makes it interesting. i like it when bands rework their
>arrangements, or change melodies, or jam things out, etc.. it keeps things
>fresh and it gives me a reason to buy the live album. if i want to hear
>the album version well, i'll just put on the album.

I don't mind if a band adds a little or jams a little or doesn't
exactly duplicate the album version, but I don't like to hear radical
reworkings of songs. I once saw Devo and they opened with an acoustic
version of "Jocko Homo" that sounded nothing like the original, and
while it was good for a laugh, I was bummed they didn't do the
original herky-jerky version.
January 8, 2005 11:52:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

>My opinion is that I'm totally for whatever approach a band wants to
>take. If they want to not play anything they can't duplicate live,
>that's great. If they want to add a million overdubs like Queen,
>that's fine, too. Neither approach is wrong. Me, I like the best of
>both worlds...I'm not above adding extra harmonies or overdubbing a
>lead for a 3-piece band, but I don't go nuts adding overdubs for hours
>and hours. I don't have the patience.

i would do whatever it takes to make the song as perfect as possible and
the thought of how i would reproduce it live would never enter my mind.


>>if your songs sound a little different live, a little rawer there's nothing
>>wrong with that, it makes it interesting. i like it when bands rework their
>>arrangements, or change melodies, or jam things out, etc.. it keeps things
>>fresh and it gives me a reason to buy the live album. if i want to hear
>>the album version well, i'll just put on the album.
>
>I don't mind if a band adds a little or jams a little or doesn't
>exactly duplicate the album version, but I don't like to hear radical
>reworkings of songs. I once saw Devo and they opened with an acoustic
>version of "Jocko Homo" that sounded nothing like the original, and
>while it was good for a laugh, I was bummed they didn't do the
>original herky-jerky version.

well that sounds more like reworking a song just for the sake of doing it,
it has to be as good or better than the original arrangement, otherwise
whats the point.
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 11:57:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass (More info?)

"Boom" <mmm@nnn.com> wrote in message
news:mbott09c1q5atb7e515f8ijahbeokv29a2@4ax.com...

> Gee whiz, some of you really need to get over yourselves if you want
> to play music for a living.

It isn't like that at all Boom. What if your income isn't dependent on
music and only play for the sake of playing? Finding a great group of
museos and taking it where it will go is my goal. When I was in your
situation and trying to make a living playing music, I felt the same as you
and would do whatever it took. However, I'm a weekend warrior now and do it
for my jollies. I only do about 6-8 gigs a month. Different situation.

>
> I saw one comment about "I'd rather empty garbage cans than do a gig
> like Alison Krauss." Well, my advice to you is get some heavy work
> gloves, some steel-toed boots, and work on your upper body strength,
> because the likelihood is that you WILL be toting garbage cans instead
> of playing music for a living.

I'm not in your situation and hold a different opinion. There's nothing
wrong with that. See my comment above. I learned a long time ago that I
didn't like playing music when my income depended on it. I was much better
off finding another way to make money that allowed me to play what I wanted.
It was a personal decision and just my opinion.

Sam S.
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