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Taunt Marvel Comics

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Anonymous
March 12, 2005 4:18:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
Lawsuit Against NCsoft

Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable decision;
judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and throws out
trademark claims

LOS ANGELES, March 11, 2005-A U.S. district court judge in Los
Angeles dismissed several key claims by comic book publisher Marvel
Enterprises, Inc in the company's trademark and copyright
infringement case against online computer game publisher NCsoft®
Corporation and game developer Cryptic Studios™. Marvel sued NCsoft
and Cryptic Studios in November of last year, claiming that the City of
Heroes® online computer game allows players to imitate comic book
characters owned by Marvel.

In a March 9 order, U.S. District Court Judge R. Gary Klausner agreed
with NCsoft that some of Marvel's allegations and exhibits should be
stricken as "false and sham" because certain allegedly infringing
works depicted in Marvel's pleadings were created not by users, but
by Marvel itself.

The judge also dismissed more than half of Marvel's claims against
NCsoft and Cryptic Studios, including Marvel's claims that the
defendants directly infringed Marvel's registered trademarks and are
liable for purported infringement of Marvel's trademarks by City of
Heroes' users. In addition, he dismissed Marvel's claim for a
judicial declaration that defendants are not an online service provider
under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The judge dismissed all of
these claims without leave to amend, meaning that Marvel cannot refile
these claims.

Although the judge allowed certain claims to survive the motion to
dismiss, NCsoft and Cryptic Studios are pleased with the result and are
confident that both the law and the facts will support their case. In
fact, citing a 1984 Supreme Court case holding that the sale of video
cassette recorders did not violate copyright law, the Court noted that
"It is uncontested that Defendants' game has a substantial
non-infringing use. Generally the sale of products with substantial
non-infringing uses does not evoke liability for contributory copyright
infringement." Only "where a computer system operator is aware of
specific infringing material on the computer system, and fails to
remove it, the system operator contributes to infringement," the
Court stated.

The defendants have 10 days in which to answer and dispute Marvel's
allegations and to assert legal defenses to the remaining claims as
well as to assert any counterclaims.


About NCsoft North America
NCsoft - North America (NC-NA) is headquartered in Austin, Texas and is
part of Korea-based NCsoft Corporation. NC-NA, with development and
administrative offices in Texas and California, launched two
ground-breaking titles in the first half of 2004, Lineage® II and City
of Heroes. The company also works with NCsoft subsidiaries and third
party developers throughout North America to develop and publish
innovative online entertainment software products. More information
about NCsoft - North America can be found at http://www.PlayNC.com.

About Cryptic Studios
Cryptic Studios, Inc., located in Los Gatos, California, was
established in July of 2000 and is an independent developer of
massively multiplayer online games for the PC and next generation
consoles. Its first game, City of Heroes, launched in April 2004. The
game takes place in a virtual world where thousands of people play
simultaneously, take on the role of super-powered heroes, fight
villains and help create a dynamic story in a visually-stunning, 3-D
graphical world.


NCsoft, the interlocking NC logo, Lineage and all associated NCsoft
logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCsoft
Corporation. City of Heroes is a registered trademark of Cryptic
Studios, Inc. and NCsoft Corporation. Cryptic Studios is a trademark of
Cryptic Studios, Inc. All other trademarks are the property of their
respective owners.

Article link:

http://plaync.com/about/2005/03/federal_judge_d.html

You can taunt Marvel here:

http://www.marvel.com/company/feedback.htm

More about : taunt marvel comics

Anonymous
March 12, 2005 11:04:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

I fear they will be after my colored pencils next, since I've used them to
draw superheros resembling many Marvel-owned characters.
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 1:59:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Alex Mars wrote:
> Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
> Lawsuit Against NCsoft


Too bad Marvel can't come up with some decent superhero
RPG's of their own. They'd be better off hiring Cryptic
Studios to make a Marvel superhero based RPG than trying to
sue them.
Related resources
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Anonymous
March 13, 2005 5:57:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> once tried to test me with:

> Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
> Lawsuit Against NCsoft
>
> Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable decision;
> judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and throws out
> trademark claims

Excellent. Marvel sunk to a new low with this, and all they did was piss
off fans.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
March 13, 2005 11:57:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-13, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
> "Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>> Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
>> Lawsuit Against NCsoft
>>
>> Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable decision;
>> judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and throws out
>> trademark claims
>
> Excellent. Marvel sunk to a new low with this, and all they did was piss
> off fans.
>

Piss off who? It's funny to see people not care about what
Blizzard did some years ago when they got the bnetd people to
stop distributing bnetd, and then see them lash at Marvel for
protecting their intellectual property.

Hippocrates.
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 12:23:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9617D51FFC544knight37m@130.133.1.4...
> "Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>> Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
>> Lawsuit Against NCsoft
>>
>> Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable decision;
>> judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and throws out
>> trademark claims
>
> Excellent. Marvel sunk to a new low with this, and all they did was piss
> off fans.
>
> --
>
> Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com
>
> Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.

I'm not "pissed off" or surprised.

Once Marvel became a publicly traded company they sunk to a new low because
it became about making "good" money. Not about making "good" comics.

Cheers, Reddog
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 6:46:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:

> On 2005-03-13, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>> "Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> once tried to test me with:
>>
>>> Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
>>> Lawsuit Against NCsoft
>>>
>>> Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable
>>> decision; judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and
>>> throws out trademark claims
>>
>> Excellent. Marvel sunk to a new low with this, and all they did was
>> piss off fans.
>>
>
> Piss off who? It's funny to see people not care about what
> Blizzard did some years ago when they got the bnetd people to
> stop distributing bnetd, and then see them lash at Marvel for
> protecting their intellectual property.
>
> Hippocrates.

First of all the word I think you're trying to say is "hypocrite".

Hippocrates was the greek physician who is traditionally (but erroneously)
given credit for the Hippocratic Oath, which among other things, is an oath
doctors take "to do no harm" etc etc. Hippocrates is considered to be the
"father of modern medicine" because he rejected superstition and treated
medicine like science.

Secondly, if you're calling me a hypocrite, I'd like you to prove what I
said was hypocritical. Otherwise sit down and STFU.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 6:46:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9618635FD747Dknight37m@130.133.1.4...
> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>> On 2005-03-13, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>>> "Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> once tried to test me with:
>>>
>>>> Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
>>>> Lawsuit Against NCsoft
>>>>
>>>> Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable
>>>> decision; judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and
>>>> throws out trademark claims
>>>
>>> Excellent. Marvel sunk to a new low with this, and all they did was
>>> piss off fans.
>>>
>>
>> Piss off who? It's funny to see people not care about what
>> Blizzard did some years ago when they got the bnetd people to
>> stop distributing bnetd, and then see them lash at Marvel for
>> protecting their intellectual property.
>>
>> Hippocrates.
>
> First of all the word I think you're trying to say is "hypocrite".
>
> Hippocrates was the greek physician who is traditionally (but erroneously)
> given credit for the Hippocratic Oath, which among other things, is an
> oath
> doctors take "to do no harm" etc etc. Hippocrates is considered to be the
> "father of modern medicine" because he rejected superstition and treated
> medicine like science.
>
> Secondly, if you're calling me a hypocrite, I'd like you to prove what I
> said was hypocritical. Otherwise sit down and STFU.
>

Hey dude, don't be such an Aristotle.
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 6:46:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:15:01 -0500, "Grackle" <nowhere@lalaland.ca> wrote:

>"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns9618635FD747Dknight37m@130.133.1.4...
>> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>>
>>> On 2005-03-13, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>>>> "Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> once tried to test me with:
>>>>
>>>>> Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
>>>>> Lawsuit Against NCsoft
>>>>>
>>>>> Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable
>>>>> decision; judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and
>>>>> throws out trademark claims
>>>>
>>>> Excellent. Marvel sunk to a new low with this, and all they did was
>>>> piss off fans.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Piss off who? It's funny to see people not care about what
>>> Blizzard did some years ago when they got the bnetd people to
>>> stop distributing bnetd, and then see them lash at Marvel for
>>> protecting their intellectual property.
>>>
>>> Hippocrates.
>>
>> First of all the word I think you're trying to say is "hypocrite".
>>
>> Hippocrates was the greek physician who is traditionally (but erroneously)
>> given credit for the Hippocratic Oath, which among other things, is an
>> oath
>> doctors take "to do no harm" etc etc. Hippocrates is considered to be the
>> "father of modern medicine" because he rejected superstition and treated
>> medicine like science.
>>
>> Secondly, if you're calling me a hypocrite, I'd like you to prove what I
>> said was hypocritical. Otherwise sit down and STFU.
>>
>
>Hey dude, don't be such an Aristotle.

nice. *golf clap* :) 

--
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 6:46:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Grackle" <nowhere@lalaland.ca> wrote in message
news:3b1Zd.1026$Jd2.65578@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Hey dude, don't be such an Aristotle.

Hey, never kick a man in his Socrates.
March 13, 2005 7:34:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-13, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:

> Secondly, if you're calling me a hypocrite, I'd like you to prove what I
> said was hypocritical. Otherwise sit down and STFU.

It is. You love WoW and Blizzard (and posted many times defending
them) even though Blizzard stopped a bunch of hobbiests from
releasing a bnet clone server.

What's the difference between Marvel and Blizzard? They'll both
send you a cease and desist letter if they think you're using
their intellectual property.
March 13, 2005 7:34:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-13, Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:
> "Grackle" <nowhere@lalaland.ca> wrote in message
> news:3b1Zd.1026$Jd2.65578@news20.bellglobal.com...
>> Hey dude, don't be such an Aristotle.
>
> Hey, never kick a man in his Socrates.

It was early in the morning and I made a silly spelling
error. Now everyone comes out of the woodwork to kick me when I'm
already down.

Good job.
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 10:14:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article <slrnd39g10.c9c.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>,
shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote:
>On 2005-03-13, Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:
>> "Grackle" <nowhere@lalaland.ca> wrote in message
>> news:3b1Zd.1026$Jd2.65578@news20.bellglobal.com...
>>> Hey dude, don't be such an Aristotle.
>>
>> Hey, never kick a man in his Socrates.
>
>It was early in the morning and I made a silly spelling
>error. Now everyone comes out of the woodwork to kick me when I'm
>already down.
>
>Good job.

Hey, it's Parmenides for the course on Usenet. You Kant expect people
to Aeschylus an opportunity for a good pun thread.

--
Kyle Haight
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 1:42:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> wrote:
>Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
>Lawsuit Against NCsoft
>
>Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable decision;
>judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and throws out
>trademark claims
>
>LOS ANGELES, March 11, 2005-A U.S. district court judge in Los
>Angeles dismissed several key claims by comic book publisher Marvel
>Enterprises, Inc in the company's trademark and copyright
>infringement case against online computer game publisher NCsoft®
>Corporation and game developer Cryptic Studios™. Marvel sued NCsoft
>and Cryptic Studios in November of last year, claiming that the City of
>Heroes® online computer game allows players to imitate comic book
>characters owned by Marvel.

What's with this "allowed people to" bullshit in courts these days. File
sharing programs ALLOW people to pirate music. CoH ALLOWS players to
copy superheroes. Back in the day it was up to individuals to be
responsible for their actions.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 1:42:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd39g10.c9c.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
> On 2005-03-13, Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:
> > "Grackle" <nowhere@lalaland.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3b1Zd.1026$Jd2.65578@news20.bellglobal.com...
> >> Hey dude, don't be such an Aristotle.
> >
> > Hey, never kick a man in his Socrates.
>
> It was early in the morning and I made a silly spelling
> error. Now everyone comes out of the woodwork to kick me when I'm
> already down.
>
> Good job.

Hey man I'm just joking around!
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 2:31:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:14:04 -0600, khaight@lefDELETEtistME.org (Kyle
Haight) wrotC:D RIVE_E

>In article <slrnd39g10.c9c.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>,
>shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote:
>>On 2005-03-13, Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:
>>> "Grackle" <nowhere@lalaland.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:3b1Zd.1026$Jd2.65578@news20.bellglobal.com...
>>>> Hey dude, don't be such an Aristotle.
>>>
>>> Hey, never kick a man in his Socrates.
>>
>>It was early in the morning and I made a silly spelling
>>error. Now everyone comes out of the woodwork to kick me when I'm
>>already down.
>>
>>Good job.
>
>Hey, it's Parmenides for the course on Usenet. You Kant expect people
>to Aeschylus an opportunity for a good pun thread.

In this case, you're putting Descartes before the horse.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 12:06:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Cryptic messed up? lol you're on crack.
What you're seeing is progress. The first games were text based, can a
text based game be sued because it describes a hero just like Wolverine
but with a different name? I don't really think so.
What if in the future, a game's character creation gets so advanced
that you can pretty much recreate any face in the world, would Bill
Gates sue them because someone made a face just like his?
Marvel was just stupid with their decision. I think they had a Marvel
MMORPG in their planes, maybe even possibly designed, and saw CoH as a
really tough competition, maybe they played it and said 'damn, this is
much better than what we had designed' who knows
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 12:23:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:34:11 -0600, shadows wrote:

> On 2005-03-13, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>
>> Secondly, if you're calling me a hypocrite, I'd like you to prove what I
>> said was hypocritical. Otherwise sit down and STFU.
>
> It is. You love WoW and Blizzard (and posted many times defending
> them) even though Blizzard stopped a bunch of hobbiests from
> releasing a bnet clone server.
Possibly because that was a *direct* copyright infringement whereas
Marvels' is a *couldpossiblybeifsomeonedecidestomakeone*.

> What's the difference between Marvel and Blizzard? They'll both
> send you a cease and desist letter if they think you're using
> their intellectual property.
Umm Marvel makes comic books and Blizzard develops computer games? I'll
admit there's a fine line, but in this case I think Marvel crossed it by
hypothosizing rather than direct citation. I don't begrudge either company
from protecting their rights - just be aware of the public opinion when
doing so.

--
RJB
3/14/2005 9:14:22 AM

Drugs have taught an entire generation of American kids the metric system.
--P. J. O'Rourke
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 12:24:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:42:11 +0800, Bateau wrote:

> What's with this "allowed people to" bullshit in courts these days. File
> sharing programs ALLOW people to pirate music. CoH ALLOWS players to
> copy superheroes. Back in the day it was up to individuals to be
> responsible for their actions.

It's more cost effective to sue one corporation rather than 1000's of
individuals.
--
RJB
3/14/2005 9:23:58 AM

On the mountains of truth you can never climb in vain: either you will
reach a point higher up today, or you will be training your powers so that
you will be able to climb higher tomorrow.
--Friedrich Nietzsche
March 14, 2005 12:56:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:42:11 +0800, Bateau wrote:
>
>> What's with this "allowed people to" bullshit in courts these days. File
>> sharing programs ALLOW people to pirate music. CoH ALLOWS players to
>> copy superheroes. Back in the day it was up to individuals to be
>> responsible for their actions.
>
> It's more cost effective to sue one corporation rather than 1000's of
> individuals.

Cryptic allows you to create a character who has claws modelled
after a Marvel character. The claws look _very_ similar. Cryptic
did mess up and not the people who thought "oh look I can make a
character that looks like Wolverine."
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 1:22:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows wrote:

> On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:42:11 +0800, Bateau wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What's with this "allowed people to" bullshit in courts these days. File
>>>sharing programs ALLOW people to pirate music. CoH ALLOWS players to
>>>copy superheroes. Back in the day it was up to individuals to be
>>>responsible for their actions.
>>
>>It's more cost effective to sue one corporation rather than 1000's of
>>individuals.
>
>
> Cryptic allows you to create a character who has claws modelled
> after a Marvel character. The claws look _very_ similar. Cryptic
> did mess up and not the people who thought "oh look I can make a
> character that looks like Wolverine."

But you can use the claws without looking like Wolverine too. This is a
non-issue. Just because you can look similar to Wolverine, doesn't mean
that Cryptic messed up. Hell, you can look similar to almost any comic
book character...Hell take a look at
http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2664

They all look "similar" to some character or another....So what?
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 3:13:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:56:05 -0600, shadows wrote:

> On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:42:11 +0800, Bateau wrote:
>>
>>> What's with this "allowed people to" bullshit in courts these days. File
>>> sharing programs ALLOW people to pirate music. CoH ALLOWS players to
>>> copy superheroes. Back in the day it was up to individuals to be
>>> responsible for their actions.
>>
>> It's more cost effective to sue one corporation rather than 1000's of
>> individuals.
>
> Cryptic allows you to create a character who has claws modelled
> after a Marvel character. The claws look _very_ similar. Cryptic
> did mess up and not the people who thought "oh look I can make a
> character that looks like Wolverine."

Hmm then how come they didn't sue Wes Craven or New Line? I mean Freddy
Kreugar's claws look really similar to Woverines as well.
--
RJB
3/14/2005 12:00:25 PM

Doh!
--Homer Simpson
March 14, 2005 3:28:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-14, wolfing1@yahoo.com <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Cryptic messed up? lol you're on crack.
> What you're seeing is progress. The first games were text based, can a
> text based game be sued because it describes a hero just like Wolverine
> but with a different name?

Yes.

> I don't really think so.
> What if in the future, a game's character creation gets so advanced
> that you can pretty much recreate any face in the world, would Bill
> Gates sue them because someone made a face just like his?

Making strawman arguments doesn't help. Wolvervine has claws
which are also provided in a super hero setting in CoH. In fact
they look exactly like his claws coming out of the players hands.

Marvel wants a cut of the action because they are allowing people
to create Marvel characters.

BTW, your precious Cryptic is no better than Marvel. Have you
read the EULA? They banned people for writing an extraction
utility for the .pig file format they use. According to the user
agreement with Cryptic doing any kind of reverse engineering or
tinkering with their client is grounds to have your account
suspended.

You hypocrites sit around and get mad whenever a company defends
its IP but ignore the fact that your precious MMO developer is
just as guilty. Cryptic does everyhing it can in the EULA to take
away your rights and enforces it any chance they get. This
includes banning customers who decide to make simple mods for the
game like disable annoying sounds.

Go ahead. Cheer them on, or maybe take a moment to put together
an original thought that doesn't involve the stupid group think
that I see come up whenever poor Cryptic rips off Marvel, bans
its own customers for manipulating software they BOUGHT, and have
that idiot Statesman add twenty more hitpoints to all the mobs so
you're stuck playing longer.

Sheep.
March 14, 2005 3:29:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hmm then how come they didn't sue Wes Craven or New Line? I mean Freddy
> Kreugar's claws look really similar to Woverines as well.

Freddy isn't a superhero or villian. It's a completely different
genre. There's no confusion there.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 4:33:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows wrote:
> On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Hmm then how come they didn't sue Wes Craven or New Line? I mean Freddy
>>Kreugar's claws look really similar to Woverines as well.
>
>
> Freddy isn't a superhero or villian. It's a completely different
> genre. There's no confusion there.

Freddy isn't a villain? I suppose there might be little confusion, but
really Freddy is just Wolverine in a stripped sweater.

Plus, Marvel should see sales going UP not down. Why? People WANT to
play their favorite super hero. Marvel just keeps sticking their heads
where the sun doesn't shine and they wonder why public opinion of them
is bad...
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 4:58:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:29:30 -0600, shadows wrote:

> Message-ID: <slrnd3bm0s.dbn.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>
> User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.1 (FreeBSD)
> Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:29:30 -0600
> Lines: 9
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>
> On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hmm then how come they didn't sue Wes Craven or New Line? I mean Freddy
>> Kreugar's claws look really similar to Woverines as well.
>
> Freddy isn't a superhero or villian. It's a completely different
> genre. There's no confusion there.

He isn't a villan? I suppose that's true in a pedantic sense. As I said in
another thread I don't begrudge their right to sue, but I think they need
to listen to public opinion a bit more. Good will to a business such as
theirs is paramount. They've already got a black eye over the Stan Lee
thing. Is playing NCSoft's game going to hurt their comic business? No, as
a matter of fact it could have enhanced it - had they been smarter about
it. Court *should* have been the *last* option.
--
RJB
3/14/2005 1:40:54 PM

Si vis pacem, para bellum - If you want peace, prepare for war
--Latin Saying
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 9:12:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

guess what, Superman has had rays coming out of his eyes for ages, that
means that cyclops is a direct infringement of that same law?
A power doesn't define a hero, his background does
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 11:01:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

I think this case is one of the sillier copyright cases out there.
While I have not played COH, I have looked at some screenies and the
customization seems to basically permit you to make your character to
look a whole huge variety of ways. The fact that some user clones a
look to appear like someone else really should not support an
infringement case.

I think this case is one where Marvel is going down in flames after
spending a lot of money. I would not be surprised if they end up
paying attorney's fees for the accused infringing party, which
generally does not happen.
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 1:41:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

wolfing1@yahoo.com wrote:
> guess what, Superman has had rays coming out of his eyes for ages, that
> means that cyclops is a direct infringement of that same law?
> A power doesn't define a hero, his background does

Or what about Batman with no real super powers, but a cool utility belt.
Does that mean James Bond is infringing on Batman?
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 1:48:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows wrote:

> On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:42:11 +0800, Bateau wrote:
> >
> >> What's with this "allowed people to" bullshit in courts these days. File
> >> sharing programs ALLOW people to pirate music. CoH ALLOWS players to
> >> copy superheroes. Back in the day it was up to individuals to be
> >> responsible for their actions.
> >
> > It's more cost effective to sue one corporation rather than 1000's of
> > individuals.
>
> Cryptic allows you to create a character who has claws modelled
> after a Marvel character. The claws look very similar. Cryptic
> did mess up and not the people who thought "oh look I can make a
> character that looks like Wolverine."
<end quote>

Then, Marvel should next sue Blizzard. They have the same claw design for their
Assasin in D2LOD.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
"Aaaaah yourself!.....Uh, oh-o!"
-Serious 'Second Encounter' Sam-
-------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 2:44:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:56:05 -0600, shadows wrote:
>
>> On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:42:11 +0800, Bateau wrote:
>>>
>>>> What's with this "allowed people to" bullshit in courts these days. File
>>>> sharing programs ALLOW people to pirate music. CoH ALLOWS players to
>>>> copy superheroes. Back in the day it was up to individuals to be
>>>> responsible for their actions.
>>>
>>> It's more cost effective to sue one corporation rather than 1000's of
>>> individuals.
>>
>> Cryptic allows you to create a character who has claws modelled
>> after a Marvel character. The claws look _very_ similar. Cryptic
>> did mess up and not the people who thought "oh look I can make a
>> character that looks like Wolverine."
>
>Hmm then how come they didn't sue Wes Craven or New Line? I mean Freddy
>Kreugar's claws look really similar to Woverines as well.

WTF. Freddy's claws come out of his finger tips and he has 5.
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 2:44:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:44:25 +0800, Bateau wrote:

> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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> NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.59.180.112
> X-Trace: 1110858359 per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au 12364 203.59.180.112
> Xref: uni-berlin.de comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg:720279
>
> RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:56:05 -0600, shadows wrote:
>>
>>> On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:42:11 +0800, Bateau wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What's with this "allowed people to" bullshit in courts these days. File
>>>>> sharing programs ALLOW people to pirate music. CoH ALLOWS players to
>>>>> copy superheroes. Back in the day it was up to individuals to be
>>>>> responsible for their actions.
>>>>
>>>> It's more cost effective to sue one corporation rather than 1000's of
>>>> individuals.
>>>
>>> Cryptic allows you to create a character who has claws modelled
>>> after a Marvel character. The claws look _very_ similar. Cryptic
>>> did mess up and not the people who thought "oh look I can make a
>>> character that looks like Wolverine."
>>
>>Hmm then how come they didn't sue Wes Craven or New Line? I mean Freddy
>>Kreugar's claws look really similar to Woverines as well.
>
> WTF. Freddy's claws come out of his finger tips and he has 5.

Actually Freddy has a "glove" that goes over his hand. Yes, he has five...
so? Blades on the hand? Similar enough for me.
--
RJB
3/15/2005 8:51:08 AM

Love your enemies. It really pisses them off!
--Unknown
March 15, 2005 2:44:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-15, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:

> Actually Freddy has a "glove" that goes over his hand. Yes, he has five...
> so? Blades on the hand? Similar enough for me.

AFAIK Wolverine has metal spikes coming out of his arm which end
up looking like a claw. The CoH "Claw" scrapper is strikingly
similar. Both are super heroes and marketted as such.
March 15, 2005 2:44:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-15, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:

> Why didn't DC sue then - I'll bet they have as much (or
> more) of a case? Or Todd McFarlane - I'll bet there are more than one Spawn
> running around? Like I said I don't begrude their right to sue... I just
> think it was corporate stupidity led by a "quick buck" thinking.

I doubt Mr. McFarlane has much of a case in this instance. There
is no "shroud" cape and the Dark Armour/Dark Melee isn't anything
like the powers Spawn had.
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 2:44:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows wrote:

> On 2005-03-15, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Why didn't DC sue then - I'll bet they have as much (or
>>more) of a case? Or Todd McFarlane - I'll bet there are more than one Spawn
>>running around? Like I said I don't begrude their right to sue... I just
>>think it was corporate stupidity led by a "quick buck" thinking.
>
>
> I doubt Mr. McFarlane has much of a case in this instance. There
> is no "shroud" cape and the Dark Armour/Dark Melee isn't anything
> like the powers Spawn had.

But it LOOKS like Spawn, just like the claws LOOK like Wolverine's.
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 8:09:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article
<1110901799.879771.245220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, Gichin
wrote:
> I think this case is one where Marvel is going down in flames
> after spending a lot of money. I would not be surprised if
> they end up paying attorney's fees for the accused infringing
> party, which generally does not happen.

This is where Marvel gets the last laugh, because they obviously
didn't spend much money on the legal team they hired to press the
suit.

--
Neil Cerutti
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 8:09:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Neil Cerutti wrote:

> In article
> <1110901799.879771.245220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, Gichin
> wrote:
>
>>I think this case is one where Marvel is going down in flames
>>after spending a lot of money. I would not be surprised if
>>they end up paying attorney's fees for the accused infringing
>>party, which generally does not happen.
>
>
> This is where Marvel gets the last laugh, because they obviously
> didn't spend much money on the legal team they hired to press the
> suit.

I tend to think that with out Luddite judicial system Marvel will win.
Judges don't understand technology and could never grasp a computer
game. Look at some of the awful rulings with software so far!!
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 3:31:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Okay.

I'm taunting you! Taunt! Taunt! Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of silly
persons! I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food
trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster
and your father smelt of elderberries. You don't frighten us, English pig
dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose
at you, so-called "Arthur King," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts!

Jonah Falcon
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 7:52:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

The judge did not throw out the entire suit, only some of the claims
and some of the factual basis. Interestingly, the judge also did not
give them leave to amend those portions of the case ... that tips the
hand a bit to show the judge thought Marvel was way out of line as
leave to amend is granted liberally.
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 11:45:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 16 Mar 2005 04:52:52 -0800, Gichin wrote:

> The judge did not throw out the entire suit, only some of the claims
> and some of the factual basis. Interestingly, the judge also did not
> give them leave to amend those portions of the case ... that tips the
> hand a bit to show the judge thought Marvel was way out of line as
> leave to amend is granted liberally.

Marvel's lucky they didn't get a contempt charge, it could be construed by
the court as fraud (well it is in reality but court and real aren't
mutually exclusive).
--
RJB
3/16/2005 8:44:27 AM

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here,
looking through your stuff.
--Jack Handy Deep Thoughts
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 1:17:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

It would not be a contempt charge -- arguably, it would be a claim that
the complaint was not well grounded in fact or law and thus was
sanctionable. Contempt flows from a party's failure to obey an order
of the court.
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 1:36:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:44:25 +0800, Bateau wrote:
>
>> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> Lines: 23
>> NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.59.180.112
>> X-Trace: 1110858359 per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au 12364 203.59.180.112
>> Xref: uni-berlin.de comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg:720279
>>
>> RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:56:05 -0600, shadows wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:42:11 +0800, Bateau wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What's with this "allowed people to" bullshit in courts these days. File
>>>>>> sharing programs ALLOW people to pirate music. CoH ALLOWS players to
>>>>>> copy superheroes. Back in the day it was up to individuals to be
>>>>>> responsible for their actions.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's more cost effective to sue one corporation rather than 1000's of
>>>>> individuals.
>>>>
>>>> Cryptic allows you to create a character who has claws modelled
>>>> after a Marvel character. The claws look _very_ similar. Cryptic
>>>> did mess up and not the people who thought "oh look I can make a
>>>> character that looks like Wolverine."
>>>
>>>Hmm then how come they didn't sue Wes Craven or New Line? I mean Freddy
>>>Kreugar's claws look really similar to Woverines as well.
>>
>> WTF. Freddy's claws come out of his finger tips and he has 5.
>
>Actually Freddy has a "glove" that goes over his hand. Yes, he has five...
>so? Blades on the hand? Similar enough for me.

That's what I meant.
They're false claws. Where else do you expect claws to be?
Ninjas have been doing it for centuries.
March 16, 2005 1:36:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-16, Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote:

> That's what I meant.
> They're false claws. Where else do you expect claws to be?
> Ninjas have been doing it for centuries.

Yeah Ninja should be sueing. Maybe I'll represent them.
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 1:38:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

James Garvin <jgarvin2004@comcast.net> wrote:
>Neil Cerutti wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <1110901799.879771.245220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, Gichin
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I think this case is one where Marvel is going down in flames
>>>after spending a lot of money. I would not be surprised if
>>>they end up paying attorney's fees for the accused infringing
>>>party, which generally does not happen.
>>
>>
>> This is where Marvel gets the last laugh, because they obviously
>> didn't spend much money on the legal team they hired to press the
>> suit.
>
>I tend to think that with out Luddite judicial system Marvel will win.
>Judges don't understand technology and could never grasp a computer
>game. Look at some of the awful rulings with software so far!!

Didn't the judge already throw it out? The "evidence" Marvel produced
showing that people were ripping off their super heroes were pictures of
CoH characters created by Marvel themselves.
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 2:42:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote:
>On 2005-03-16, Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote:
>
>> That's what I meant.
>> They're false claws. Where else do you expect claws to be?
>> Ninjas have been doing it for centuries.
>
>Yeah Ninja should be sueing. Maybe I'll represent them.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/RastaJew/Ninja.jpg
Don't tell me you've never done that too.
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 1:36:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

RJB wrote:

> How does that make it less similar? Freddy is a villan and Wolverine is a
> "hero" Freddy, Wolverine and the scrapper all have "claws"... so? Again, my
> argument wasn't that Marvel had no basis (they did) but why go specifically
> after Cryptic/NCSoft? Why not any character with a claw?
<end quote>

So starting tomorrow, you'll be reading news about Marvel suing all cats,
lions, tigers, leopards, pumas, jaguars, cheetahs, wild cats, etc...even dogs
will get involved, since they got claws too, right....

Just kidding.



--
-------------------------------------------------------------
"Aaaaah yourself!.....Uh, oh-o!"
-Serious 'Second Encounter' Sam-
-------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 11:00:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 17 Mar 2005 10:36:04 +0800, ChoyKw wrote:

> RJB wrote:
>
>> How does that make it less similar? Freddy is a villan and Wolverine is a
>> "hero" Freddy, Wolverine and the scrapper all have "claws"... so? Again, my
>> argument wasn't that Marvel had no basis (they did) but why go specifically
>> after Cryptic/NCSoft? Why not any character with a claw?
> <end quote>
>
> So starting tomorrow, you'll be reading news about Marvel suing all cats,
> lions, tigers, leopards, pumas, jaguars, cheetahs, wild cats, etc...even dogs
> will get involved, since they got claws too, right....
>
> Just kidding.

Honestly, if a lawyer thought they could make some cash off of it then it
wouldn't surprise me in the least... ;) 
--
RJB
3/18/2005 8:00:16 AM

We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world
--Dan Quayle
Anonymous
March 20, 2005 3:32:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:

> On 2005-03-13, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>
>> Secondly, if you're calling me a hypocrite, I'd like you to prove
>> what I said was hypocritical. Otherwise sit down and STFU.
>
> It is. You love WoW and Blizzard (and posted many times defending
> them) even though Blizzard stopped a bunch of hobbiests from
> releasing a bnet clone server.
>
> What's the difference between Marvel and Blizzard? They'll both
> send you a cease and desist letter if they think you're using
> their intellectual property.

Go back and show me where I posted anything about BnetD. I'll wait right
here.



--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
March 20, 2005 3:32:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-03-20, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>> On 2005-03-13, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Secondly, if you're calling me a hypocrite, I'd like you to prove
>>> what I said was hypocritical. Otherwise sit down and STFU.
>>
>> It is. You love WoW and Blizzard (and posted many times defending
>> them) even though Blizzard stopped a bunch of hobbiests from
>> releasing a bnet clone server.
>>
>> What's the difference between Marvel and Blizzard? They'll both
>> send you a cease and desist letter if they think you're using
>> their intellectual property.
>
> Go back and show me where I posted anything about BnetD. I'll wait right
> here.

Practice your English comprehension skills first.

You will attack Marvel for protecting their intellectual property
but you will ignore Blizzard when they go after hobbyists who
reimplement their server software and give it away for free. Then
you ignore the fact that Cryptic profits from CoH and bans users
who look into the data files Cryptic gives them.

You'll happily pay Blizzard and Cryptic for their MMO even
though BOTH these companies have screwed over paying customers
over intellectual property nonsense.

If you're going to stand on any moral high ground at least be
consistent. None of these organizations deserve anyones
sympathy. They're all engaging in anti-social violent behaviour
that attempts to slice culture into little pieces and package it
in boxes.

The world we live in is full of illusions. The whole Marvel
versus NCSoft/Cryptic lawsuit is exactly that. It's _a_ truth
meant to cover _the_ truth.

Read the EULA that Cryptic wrote for a sobering experience.
Anonymous
March 20, 2005 3:36:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:

> On 2005-03-14, wolfing1@yahoo.com <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Cryptic messed up? lol you're on crack.
>> What you're seeing is progress. The first games were text based, can a
>> text based game be sued because it describes a hero just like Wolverine
>> but with a different name?
>
> Yes.
>
>> I don't really think so.
>> What if in the future, a game's character creation gets so advanced
>> that you can pretty much recreate any face in the world, would Bill
>> Gates sue them because someone made a face just like his?
>
> Making strawman arguments doesn't help. Wolvervine has claws
> which are also provided in a super hero setting in CoH. In fact
> they look exactly like his claws coming out of the players hands.
>
> Marvel wants a cut of the action because they are allowing people
> to create Marvel characters.

Free clue: Marvel doesn't have a copyright on superheroes with claws coming
out of their hands.

> BTW, your precious Cryptic is no better than Marvel. Have you
> read the EULA? They banned people for writing an extraction
> utility for the .pig file format they use. According to the user
> agreement with Cryptic doing any kind of reverse engineering or
> tinkering with their client is grounds to have your account
> suspended.

> You hypocrites sit around and get mad whenever a company defends
> its IP but ignore the fact that your precious MMO developer is
> just as guilty. Cryptic does everyhing it can in the EULA to take
> away your rights and enforces it any chance they get. This
> includes banning customers who decide to make simple mods for the
> game like disable annoying sounds.

> Go ahead. Cheer them on, or maybe take a moment to put together
> an original thought that doesn't involve the stupid group think
> that I see come up whenever poor Cryptic rips off Marvel, bans
> its own customers for manipulating software they BOUGHT, and have
> that idiot Statesman add twenty more hitpoints to all the mobs so
> you're stuck playing longer.

Whatever Cryptic does or does not do, it does not excuse Marvel for being
jackasses to their fan base.


--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
!