Ep III & Lucas...

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On 2005-03-21, Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Could someone please buy the Star Wars franchise from Lucas and give
> it to someone who understands it? Like, say, the guys who made Ep IV
> and left after Ep V?

Do what I did and just don't go see anymore Star Wars
movies. After EP1 I stopped. You can always rent them if you
really need to look.

The "Spy Kids" crowd will probably spend more on the movies and
associated merchandise according to the marketting guys at
Lucas. That's why it's being developed in that way. Remember we
were 12 year old boys when we saw the original trilogy.

Try the Tales of the Jedi series for something a little more
mature.

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Mean_Chlorine wrote:

> Could someone please buy the Star Wars franchise from Lucas and give
> it to someone who understands it? Like, say, the guys who made Ep IV
> and left after Ep V?

You can't really say that Lucas doesn't understand the franchise seeing as
he wrote the bloody films.

It would be truer to say that he doesn't understand (or care about) what the
fans want. The Majority of SW fans are probably ages 25-35, so to me it
would be obvious that they'd want something slightly more mature from a new
Star Wars film. I think what the newer films are missing (particularly EP1)
is the appeal for all ages though. I loved Star Wars growing up. I love
the Light Sabre fights, and space battls, I found the whole thing really
good fun. When I got older I reaslised that Ewoks were childish, and that
C3-P0 is the most anoying robot in the history of film. However I now have
a greater aprication of the dry humour, Yoda, the redemtion of Darth Vader,
the entire second half of Empire.

Personally I'd have like Lucas to have come out and say: "I've making three
prequels, they're going to be darker, have more complex story lines,
political intrigue etc, and they're going to be aimed at the fans who grew
up with Star Wars, and have made me stinking rich"

--
Morgan.
----
* I don't mind a parasite, I object to a cut rate one. :- Humphrey Bogart,
Casablanca.

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On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 20:30:17 +0100, Mean_Chlorine wrote:

> Could someone please buy the Star Wars franchise from Lucas and give
> it to someone who understands it? Like, say, the guys who made Ep IV
> and left after Ep V?

So George should sell it to himself? I mean he's got the cash, but .... why
bother?
--
RJB
3/21/2005 3:18:23 PM

You know that old saying, 'Strike while the iron is hot?' Well, I think
that's a pretty dumb saying, 'cause I'll betcha a cold iron will hurt like
hell, too.
--Charlie Acord

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"Mean_Chlorine" <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5p7u31hlhmem5o9aern93k41an4i4nceok@4ax.com...
> Because there will eventually (may 5th) be games based on this, it is
> slightly on topic...
>
> Anyway, I just watched an interview with Lucas, where he explained
> that the target audience for the Star Wars movies are 12 year old
> boys. IOW, the "Spy Kids" crowd.
>
> Explains Ep 1-2, doesn't it, and sure says a lot about how "dark" Ep.
> 3, aka "starship titanic", will be.
>
> Could someone please buy the Star Wars franchise from Lucas and give
> it to someone who understands it? Like, say, the guys who made Ep IV
> and left after Ep V?

Lucas always intended the Star Wars films to be aimed at 12 y/o boys.

Even Ep V has plenty of droid comic relief / yoda / silly walking tanks /
etc etc.

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On 2005-03-21, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 20:30:17 +0100, Mean_Chlorine wrote:
>
>> Could someone please buy the Star Wars franchise from Lucas and give
>> it to someone who understands it? Like, say, the guys who made Ep IV
>> and left after Ep V?
>
> So George should sell it to himself? I mean he's got the cash, but .... why
> bother?

Lucas had very little to do with Ep IV and Ep V. Sure he wrote
the original story, and produced it but he rarely did anything
on-set. In fact the docuemntary on the making of the trilogy has
a mention of how Lucas fell sick during Ep IV and after he got
better and came back to the set everyone was asking everyone else
if Lucas was still sick. He had very little presence during the
shootings.

Ep V AFAIK was directed by another director with Lucas just
producing the film.

A lot of lines spoken by the actors were done adlib. Actors like
Harrison Ford would go as far as to reject whatever lines he was
given and just make it up on the spot. If something didn't sound
like Han Solo saying it Harrison Ford wouldn't go along with
it. In fact he felt the character should have died in Ep V and
never come back.

The second Lucas got involved he screwed things up.

I mean this is a man who had no idea people hated Jar Jar until
the second episode came out.

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shadows wrote:
>
> The second Lucas got involved he screwed things up.
>
> I mean this is a man who had no idea people hated Jar Jar until
> the second episode came out.

Jar Jar isn't even aiming at 12 year old boys. Jar Jar is aiming
at....I don't know. Perhaps George was trying to bring back black face???

Ep1 was targeted at younger folks (probably 6-9) and Ep 2 was targeted
at slightly older folks (10-12) and Ep 3 will probably be targeted at
slightly older (12-14).

While I hate to see my childhood destroyed by someone who doesn't even
understand the Star Wars Universe (Lucas has created so many plot holes
it is just stupid), I do think that Lucas isn't aiming at the fans, he
wants new fans that will buy the action figures and kitsch that go along
with the movies.

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On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:43:18 -0600, shadows wrote:

> On 2005-03-21, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 20:30:17 +0100, Mean_Chlorine wrote:
>>
>>> Could someone please buy the Star Wars franchise from Lucas and give
>>> it to someone who understands it? Like, say, the guys who made Ep IV
>>> and left after Ep V?
>>
>> So George should sell it to himself? I mean he's got the cash, but .... why
>> bother?
>
> Lucas had very little to do with Ep IV and Ep V. Sure he wrote
> the original story, and produced it but he rarely did anything
> on-set. In fact the docuemntary on the making of the trilogy has
> a mention of how Lucas fell sick during Ep IV and after he got
> better and came back to the set everyone was asking everyone else
> if Lucas was still sick. He had very little presence during the
> shootings.
>
> Ep V AFAIK was directed by another director with Lucas just
> producing the film.
>
> A lot of lines spoken by the actors were done adlib. Actors like
> Harrison Ford would go as far as to reject whatever lines he was
> given and just make it up on the spot. If something didn't sound
> like Han Solo saying it Harrison Ford wouldn't go along with
> it. In fact he felt the character should have died in Ep V and
> never come back.
>
> The second Lucas got involved he screwed things up.
>
> I mean this is a man who had no idea people hated Jar Jar until
> the second episode came out.

I'll agree as a director he didn't do as well (in E1-2 - E4 turned out fine
otherwise there wouldn't have been any others), but he *wrote* them all
(and you have to admit the plotlines on *all* of them are weak). If the OP
had said let someone else *direct* them then I'd agree. But if *anyone*
understands the franchise it's Lucas. Even though everyone hated Jar Jar
(myself included) they *still* went to see it. And Episode II and (more
than likely) Episode III. So (back to the beginning) *why* would he sell
when he certainly understands it. I've seen interviews with Lucas and he
seemed not to care about making art with the SW pictures, he was looking to
a) keep his independence and b) be able to concentrate on the technical
side (IL&M)... he's made the money off them so that *now* he *can* devote
himself to making "art". As an aside I don't think he's a horrendous
director - American Graffiti turned out ok.
--
RJB
3/21/2005 3:54:44 PM

We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world
--Dan Quayle

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On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:45:23 -0000, "Morgan Sales"
<msales.DIESPAMMER@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>You can't really say that Lucas doesn't understand the franchise seeing as
>he wrote the bloody films.
>
I think the problem most of the older fans have is that they grew up
with it, as pre-teen or young teenage boys, from when Ep IV came out (I
was seven).

Lucas was aiming at the pre-teen/young teen market from the start and
has continued in that vein, maybe lowering the age-sight a little, and
the older fans feel that the franchise hasn't grown with them.

Lucas never intended that it should grow up. If you ever saw any of the
interviews with him back then (1977) he talked about it exactly the same
way as he does now about the new films, like he's pitching to 8-14 year
olds. All he's done is update his original story ideas using current
technological abilities to turn it into movies, and in the differences
between Original and Special Editions of Eps IV-VI you can see how he
had to scale his original ideas back because of technological
constraints.

I think any hints of the darker side, or the more adult humour, came
mostly from the actors themselves, particularly Harrison Ford, who
supposedly liked to 'do things his way' once he became Hollywood
hot-property and realised that he had some clout.

The only real problem I've ever had with the franchise is that Lucas
should stop trying to have so much input on the dialog and let a decent
script writer at it, but I doubt that will ever happen.

--
Alfie
<http://www.delphia.co.uk/&gt;
An opportunity is meaningless if nothing is done with it.

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> Anyway, I just watched an interview with Lucas, where he explained
> that the target audience for the Star Wars movies are 12 year old
> boys. IOW, the "Spy Kids" crowd.

Which is kind of odd, given that Ep III is rumored to be rated PG-13 when it
comes out, so technically, those 12 year old boys won't get to see it
legally. (I think they can go with parents, forgot what the rules are for
that...)

> Explains Ep 1-2, doesn't it, and sure says a lot about how "dark" Ep.
> 3, aka "starship titanic", will be.
>
> Could someone please buy the Star Wars franchise from Lucas and give
> it to someone who understands it? Like, say, the guys who made Ep IV
> and left after Ep V?

The guy who directed Ep IV is, well, slightly dead. And the guy that
directed Ep V is 82 and pretty well retired. It does say something, though,
that the best two movies in the franchise are the only ones NOT directed by
George Lucas.

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Thusly "Alfie [UK]" <me@privacy.net> Spake Unto All:

>I think the problem most of the older fans have is that they grew up
>with it, as pre-teen or young teenage boys, from when Ep IV came out (I
>was seven).
>
>Lucas was aiming at the pre-teen/young teen market from the start and
>has continued in that vein, maybe lowering the age-sight a little, and
>the older fans feel that the franchise hasn't grown with them.

But the thing is, if you see Ep. IV and (first half of) V today,
they're still more mature and have more humour than Ep I and II.
To a degree it's that Lucas was restrained by budget and lack of CG
back then, but it's also fairly obvious that there were other people
moderating him, keeping IV and V from becoming at once childish and
pretentious, like I and II are.

He, simply, should not direct. He should write the plot, let someone
else do the dialogue, and stay far, far, away from the directing.

>I think any hints of the darker side, or the more adult humour, came
>mostly from the actors themselves, particularly Harrison Ford

Quite possibly, but if so that suggests it might be a good idea to
adjust the scripts accordingly. As it is he's just wasting good
actors.

Oh, I know it wont happen.

One possibility would be to let the SW sextet run its dreary kiddie
course, but ALSO let some more talented director and scriptwriter have
a stab at the franchise. The potential exists - see KOTOR, which IMO
has a better story and is more compelling than the last three movies.

--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.

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"James Garvin" <jgarvin2004@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:INKdnTEPrrWxq6LfRVn-hw@comcast.com...

> While I hate to see my childhood destroyed by someone who doesn't even
> understand the Star Wars Universe (Lucas has created so many plot holes it
> is just stupid), I do think that Lucas isn't aiming at the fans, he wants
> new fans that will buy the action figures and kitsch that go along with
> the movies.

He aimed the first trilogy at kids. He's aiming the second one at kids.
What's the problem?

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Alfie [UK] wrote:
> The only real problem I've ever had with the franchise is that Lucas
> should stop trying to have so much input on the dialog and let a
> decent script writer at it, but I doubt that will ever happen.

Are you an Angel?

--

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Mean_Chlorine wrote:
> Because there will eventually (may 5th) be games based on this, it is
> slightly on topic...
>
> Anyway, I just watched an interview with Lucas, where he explained
> that the target audience for the Star Wars movies are 12 year old
> boys. IOW, the "Spy Kids" crowd.
>
> Explains Ep 1-2, doesn't it, and sure says a lot about how "dark" Ep.
> 3, aka "starship titanic", will be.
>
> Could someone please buy the Star Wars franchise from Lucas and give
> it to someone who understands it? Like, say, the guys who made Ep IV
> and left after Ep V?
>
> TIA.
>

I think the wait was so long that all the kids who grew up on the
originals blew the back story up into something that Lucas just wasn't
capable of, at any time in his life (let alone now where he's just lazy
and greedy). I had imagined the story of Anakin's corruption and the
fall of the republic to be half Othello and half MacBeth, full of subtle
schemes. Instead we got a plot where Palpatine's plan to overthrow the
republic would have been rejected by a 1930's Flash Gordon serial as too
simplistic. If I'd really thought about it, I'd have realized that
Lucas' tin ear for dialogue and complete lack of subtlety would mean
that this was inevitable as long as he insisted on making the movies
himself with no outside input.

The final signal that the prequels were doomed was the casting, where
the only good actors were given marginal roles. Hayden Christiansen?
They might as well have used a cardboard cutout of Keanu Reeves. Even
Ashton Kutcher would have made a better Vader than him. The only thing
worse than him as Vader is the annoying kid in EP I whose lines seem to
have been plagiarized from an ABC after school special.

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Darrel Hoffman wrote:

>>Anyway, I just watched an interview with Lucas, where he explained
>>that the target audience for the Star Wars movies are 12 year old
>>boys. IOW, the "Spy Kids" crowd.
>
>
> Which is kind of odd, given that Ep III is rumored to be rated PG-13 when it
> comes out, so technically, those 12 year old boys won't get to see it
> legally. (I think they can go with parents, forgot what the rules are for
> that...)
>
>
>>Explains Ep 1-2, doesn't it, and sure says a lot about how "dark" Ep.
>>3, aka "starship titanic", will be.
>>
>>Could someone please buy the Star Wars franchise from Lucas and give
>>it to someone who understands it? Like, say, the guys who made Ep IV
>>and left after Ep V?
>
>
> The guy who directed Ep IV is, well, slightly dead. And the guy that
> directed Ep V is 82 and pretty well retired. It does say something, though,
> that the best two movies in the franchise are the only ones NOT directed by
> George Lucas.

This is also further bolstered by the fact that the best movie of the
series (V) is the one that he had the least hand in writing.

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Mean_Chlorine wrote:

> Thusly "Alfie [UK]" <me@privacy.net> Spake Unto All:
>
>
>>I think the problem most of the older fans have is that they grew up
>>with it, as pre-teen or young teenage boys, from when Ep IV came out (I
>>was seven).
>>
>>Lucas was aiming at the pre-teen/young teen market from the start and
>>has continued in that vein, maybe lowering the age-sight a little, and
>>the older fans feel that the franchise hasn't grown with them.
>
>
> But the thing is, if you see Ep. IV and (first half of) V today,
> they're still more mature and have more humour than Ep I and II.
> To a degree it's that Lucas was restrained by budget and lack of CG
> back then, but it's also fairly obvious that there were other people
> moderating him, keeping IV and V from becoming at once childish and
> pretentious, like I and II are.
>
> He, simply, should not direct. He should write the plot, let someone
> else do the dialogue, and stay far, far, away from the directing.
>
>
>>I think any hints of the darker side, or the more adult humour, came
>>mostly from the actors themselves, particularly Harrison Ford
>
>
> Quite possibly, but if so that suggests it might be a good idea to
> adjust the scripts accordingly. As it is he's just wasting good
> actors.

Ya think?  There are lots of wonderful actors in EP I & II (albeit
mostly in small roles) - I'm sure most of them could have made up new
lines on the spot that were better than what Lucas wrote.

>
> Oh, I know it wont happen.
>
> One possibility would be to let the SW sextet run its dreary kiddie
> course, but ALSO let some more talented director and scriptwriter have
> a stab at the franchise. The potential exists - see KOTOR, which IMO
> has a better story and is more compelling than the last three movies.
>

How about letting Peter Jackson take a stab at Timothy Zahn's SW trilogy?

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Dirty Redpool wrote:

> Alfie [UK] wrote:
>
>>The only real problem I've ever had with the franchise is that Lucas
>>should stop trying to have so much input on the dialog and let a
>>decent script writer at it, but I doubt that will ever happen.
>
>
> Are you an Angel?
>

Mom, you said that the biggest problem in the universe is no one helps
each other.

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Alfie [UK] wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:45:23 -0000, "Morgan Sales"
> <msales.DIESPAMMER@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>You can't really say that Lucas doesn't understand the franchise seeing as
>>he wrote the bloody films.
>>
>
> I think the problem most of the older fans have is that they grew up
> with it, as pre-teen or young teenage boys, from when Ep IV came out (I
> was seven).
>
> Lucas was aiming at the pre-teen/young teen market from the start and
> has continued in that vein, maybe lowering the age-sight a little, and
> the older fans feel that the franchise hasn't grown with them.
>
> Lucas never intended that it should grow up. If you ever saw any of the
> interviews with him back then (1977) he talked about it exactly the same
> way as he does now about the new films, like he's pitching to 8-14 year
> olds. All he's done is update his original story ideas using current
> technological abilities to turn it into movies, and in the differences
> between Original and Special Editions of Eps IV-VI you can see how he
> had to scale his original ideas back because of technological
> constraints.
>
> I think any hints of the darker side, or the more adult humour, came
> mostly from the actors themselves, particularly Harrison Ford, who
> supposedly liked to 'do things his way' once he became Hollywood
> hot-property and realised that he had some clout.
>
> The only real problem I've ever had with the franchise is that Lucas
> should stop trying to have so much input on the dialog and let a decent
> script writer at it, but I doubt that will ever happen.
>

That would also help to avoid unnecessary (and mind-bogglingly stupid)
items like metachlorians (sp?) and a political system that has an
elected monarchy (?!?) where 14 year olds are the most compelling
candidates (one suspects that maybe the Gungans are *not* the dumbest
things that walk on two legs on Naboo). IMO, those all make the "it's
the ship that did the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs" line look like it
was written by Stephen Hawking.

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Quoth The Raven "Morgan Sales"<msales.DIESPAMMER@ntlworld.com> in
3a8mihF68dhobU1@individual.net
> Mean_Chlorine wrote:
>
>> Could someone please buy the Star Wars franchise from Lucas and give
>> it to someone who understands it? Like, say, the guys who made Ep IV
>> and left after Ep V?
>
> You can't really say that Lucas doesn't understand the franchise
> seeing as he wrote the bloody films.
>
> It would be truer to say that he doesn't understand (or care about)
> what the fans want. The Majority of SW fans are probably ages 25-35,
> so to me it would be obvious that they'd want something slightly more
> mature from a new Star Wars film. I think what the newer films are
> missing (particularly EP1) is the appeal for all ages though. I
> loved Star Wars growing up. I love the Light Sabre fights, and space
> battls, I found the whole thing really good fun. When I got older I
> reaslised that Ewoks were childish, and that C3-P0 is the most
> anoying robot in the history of film. However I now have a greater
> aprication of the dry humour, Yoda, the redemtion of Darth Vader, the
> entire second half of Empire.
> Personally I'd have like Lucas to have come out and say: "I've making
> three prequels, they're going to be darker, have more complex story
> lines, political intrigue etc, and they're going to be aimed at the
> fans who grew up with Star Wars, and have made me stinking rich"

agreed

--
Only a fool test the depth of the water with both feet.

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me

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Quoth The Raven "JWB"<jwb3333__removethissection__@excite.com> in
l4G%d.46262$534.22493@twister.nyc.rr.com
> "Mean_Chlorine" <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:5p7u31hlhmem5o9aern93k41an4i4nceok@4ax.com...
>> Because there will eventually (may 5th) be games based on this, it is
>> slightly on topic...
>>
>> Anyway, I just watched an interview with Lucas, where he explained
>> that the target audience for the Star Wars movies are 12 year old
>> boys. IOW, the "Spy Kids" crowd.
>>
>> Explains Ep 1-2, doesn't it, and sure says a lot about how "dark" Ep.
>> 3, aka "starship titanic", will be.
>>
>> Could someone please buy the Star Wars franchise from Lucas and give
>> it to someone who understands it? Like, say, the guys who made Ep IV
>> and left after Ep V?
>
> Lucas always intended the Star Wars films to be aimed at 12 y/o boys.
>
> Even Ep V has plenty of droid comic relief / yoda / silly walking
> tanks / etc etc.

the thing is, I was 6 when ANH was released and I understood and appreciated
it (it was the drive in and my folks were hoping I'd sleep so they could
ignore the movie), but if Lucas was making each film for 12yo's, why are
they getting dumber? each year 12yo's are getting smarter than the previous
generation.

--
Whoever thought up the word "Mammogram"? Every time I hear it, I think
I'm supposed to put my breast in an envelope and send it to someone.
-Jan King

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me

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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:42:04 +1100, "Highlandish"
<ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>the thing is, I was 6 when ANH was released and I understood and appreciated
>it (it was the drive in and my folks were hoping I'd sleep so they could
>ignore the movie), but if Lucas was making each film for 12yo's, why are
>they getting dumber? each year 12yo's are getting smarter than the previous
>generation.

You'd not say that if you saw some of the pre-teen yobs round my way.
They can barely string a sentence together let alone debate Star Wars  

--
Alfie
<http://www.delphia.co.uk/&gt;
Why do they call it a TV set when you only get one ?

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"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3a8ptcF68pn1aU2@individual.net...
> Quoth The Raven "JWB"<jwb3333__removethissection__@excite.com> in
> l4G%d.46262$534.22493@twister.nyc.rr.com
>> "Mean_Chlorine" <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:5p7u31hlhmem5o9aern93k41an4i4nceok@4ax.com...
>>> Because there will eventually (may 5th) be games based on this, it is
>>> slightly on topic...
>>>
>>> Anyway, I just watched an interview with Lucas, where he explained
>>> that the target audience for the Star Wars movies are 12 year old
>>> boys. IOW, the "Spy Kids" crowd.
>>>
>>> Explains Ep 1-2, doesn't it, and sure says a lot about how "dark" Ep.
>>> 3, aka "starship titanic", will be.
>>>
>>> Could someone please buy the Star Wars franchise from Lucas and give
>>> it to someone who understands it? Like, say, the guys who made Ep IV
>>> and left after Ep V?
>>
>> Lucas always intended the Star Wars films to be aimed at 12 y/o boys.
>>
>> Even Ep V has plenty of droid comic relief / yoda / silly walking
>> tanks / etc etc.
>
> the thing is, I was 6 when ANH was released and I understood and
> appreciated it (it was the drive in and my folks were hoping I'd sleep so
> they could ignore the movie), but if Lucas was making each film for
> 12yo's, why are they getting dumber? each year 12yo's are getting smarter
> than the previous generation.

A film aimed at 12 y/o's can easily be "understood" by a 6 y/o.

What is so "dumb"? Jar Jar? No dumber than the Cantina band or R2D2 in ep 4

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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:42:04 +1100, "Highlandish"
<ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrotC RIVE_E

>each year 12yo's are getting smarter than the previous
>generation.

Uhm...what?

Look at 6th grade reading books from 1850. Then look at what 6th
graders today are expected to (but usually can't) read.

Twelve year olds are getting DUMBER. Way dumber. Time was, at 12, you
were almost an adult -- you'd be married in a few years and expected
to support your new family. Today, people are not expected to 'grow
up' until their mid to late 20s.

'Jaded' is not 'smarter'.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

JWB wrote:

> "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3a8ptcF68pn1aU2@individual.net...
>
>>Quoth The Raven "JWB"<jwb3333__removethissection__@excite.com> in
>>l4G%d.46262$534.22493@twister.nyc.rr.com
>>
>>>"Mean_Chlorine" <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>news:5p7u31hlhmem5o9aern93k41an4i4nceok@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>Because there will eventually (may 5th) be games based on this, it is
>>>>slightly on topic...
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, I just watched an interview with Lucas, where he explained
>>>>that the target audience for the Star Wars movies are 12 year old
>>>>boys. IOW, the "Spy Kids" crowd.
>>>>
>>>>Explains Ep 1-2, doesn't it, and sure says a lot about how "dark" Ep.
>>>>3, aka "starship titanic", will be.
>>>>
>>>>Could someone please buy the Star Wars franchise from Lucas and give
>>>>it to someone who understands it? Like, say, the guys who made Ep IV
>>>>and left after Ep V?
>>>
>>>Lucas always intended the Star Wars films to be aimed at 12 y/o boys.
>>>
>>>Even Ep V has plenty of droid comic relief / yoda / silly walking
>>>tanks / etc etc.
>>
>>the thing is, I was 6 when ANH was released and I understood and
>>appreciated it (it was the drive in and my folks were hoping I'd sleep so
>>they could ignore the movie), but if Lucas was making each film for
>>12yo's, why are they getting dumber? each year 12yo's are getting smarter
>>than the previous generation.
>
>
> A film aimed at 12 y/o's can easily be "understood" by a 6 y/o.
>
> What is so "dumb"? Jar Jar? No dumber than the Cantina band or R2D2 in ep 4

Oh please...At least R2 isn't an attempt at alien black face...

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:28:06 +1100, "Highlandish"
<ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrotC RIVE_E

>LOL, I even stayed up for the second movie, some weird lizard alien landed
>and died, a guy picked up the alien talisman and wore it on his chest, it
>melded with him and he went on a rampage with the alien laser gun until he
>was hunted down and killed.

This would be 'Laserblast', which has the distinct honour(?) of being
the last movie MSTed.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Lizard wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:28:06 +1100, "Highlandish"
> <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrotC RIVE_E
>
>
>>LOL, I even stayed up for the second movie, some weird lizard alien landed
>>and died, a guy picked up the alien talisman and wore it on his chest, it
>>melded with him and he went on a rampage with the alien laser gun until he
>>was hunted down and killed.
>
>
> This would be 'Laserblast', which has the distinct honour(?) of being
> the last movie MSTed.

I actually own that movie ;-) It was pretty awful. I made Ator look
like it should have won an Academy Award.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly Troll <newstroll@shaw.ca> Spake Unto All:

>How about letting Peter Jackson take a stab at Timothy Zahn's SW trilogy?

Heck yes.

--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Mean_Chlorine wrote:

> Thusly Troll <newstroll@shaw.ca> Spake Unto All:
>
>
>>How about letting Peter Jackson take a stab at Timothy Zahn's SW trilogy?
>
>
> Heck yes.

If only Lucas would have let Zahn write the prequels...

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Alfie [UK] wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:45:23 -0000, "Morgan Sales"
> <msales.DIESPAMMER@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> The only real problem I've ever had with the franchise is that Lucas
> should stop trying to have so much input on the dialog and let a decent
> script writer at it, but I doubt that will ever happen.
>

"Yipee!"

--
Remove the mess to reply.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 00:20:48 +0100, Mean_Chlorine
<mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Thusly "Alfie [UK]" <me@privacy.net> Spake Unto All:
>
>>I think the problem most of the older fans have is that they grew up
>>with it, as pre-teen or young teenage boys, from when Ep IV came out (I
>>was seven).
>>
>>Lucas was aiming at the pre-teen/young teen market from the start and
>>has continued in that vein, maybe lowering the age-sight a little, and
>>the older fans feel that the franchise hasn't grown with them.
>
>But the thing is, if you see Ep. IV and (first half of) V today,
>they're still more mature and have more humour than Ep I and II.
>To a degree it's that Lucas was restrained by budget and lack of CG
>back then, but it's also fairly obvious that there were other people
>moderating him, keeping IV and V from becoming at once childish and
>pretentious, like I and II are.
>

I think Kirschner and whoever directed Jedi had alot to do with making
the plots darker. Too bad Lucas didn't decide, or was forced, to let
sopmeone else direct.

Lynley

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 00:36:15 GMT, "JWB"
<jwb3333__removethissection__@excite.com> wrote:

>"James Garvin" <jgarvin2004@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:INKdnTEPrrWxq6LfRVn-hw@comcast.com...

>> While I hate to see my childhood destroyed by someone who doesn't even
>> understand the Star Wars Universe (Lucas has created so many plot holes it
>> is just stupid), I do think that Lucas isn't aiming at the fans, he wants
>> new fans that will buy the action figures and kitsch that go along with
>> the movies.

>He aimed the first trilogy at kids. He's aiming the second one at kids.
>What's the problem?

TESB wasn't aimed at kids, and I'd argue Star Wars was more an all
ages film rather than explicitly for kids. I still watch and enjoy it
greatly now, I can't do that with ROTJ, TPM or AOTC.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Ian Galbraith" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:meav319j9riaunqeqaf4jqo5i66vpt4ucp@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 00:36:15 GMT, "JWB"
> <jwb3333__removethissection__@excite.com> wrote:
>
>>"James Garvin" <jgarvin2004@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:INKdnTEPrrWxq6LfRVn-hw@comcast.com...
>
>>> While I hate to see my childhood destroyed by someone who doesn't even
>>> understand the Star Wars Universe (Lucas has created so many plot holes
>>> it
>>> is just stupid), I do think that Lucas isn't aiming at the fans, he
>>> wants
>>> new fans that will buy the action figures and kitsch that go along with
>>> the movies.
>
>>He aimed the first trilogy at kids. He's aiming the second one at kids.
>>What's the problem?
>
> TESB wasn't aimed at kids,

*cough* Yoda *cough*

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

JWB wrote:

> "Ian Galbraith" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:meav319j9riaunqeqaf4jqo5i66vpt4ucp@4ax.com...
>
>>On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 00:36:15 GMT, "JWB"
>><jwb3333__removethissection__@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"James Garvin" <jgarvin2004@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:INKdnTEPrrWxq6LfRVn-hw@comcast.com...
>>
>>>>While I hate to see my childhood destroyed by someone who doesn't even
>>>>understand the Star Wars Universe (Lucas has created so many plot holes
>>>>it
>>>>is just stupid), I do think that Lucas isn't aiming at the fans, he
>>>>wants
>>>>new fans that will buy the action figures and kitsch that go along with
>>>>the movies.
>>
>>>He aimed the first trilogy at kids. He's aiming the second one at kids.
>>>What's the problem?
>>
>>TESB wasn't aimed at kids,
>
>
> *cough* Yoda *cough*

For kids he is, yes...

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Quoth The Raven "Lizard"<lizard@mrlizard.com> in
0neu31l82p63a4fr3bspkk3h21sicusbjq@4ax.com
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:42:04 +1100, "Highlandish"
> <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrotC RIVE_E
>
>>each year 12yo's are getting smarter than the previous
>>generation.
>
> Uhm...what?
>
> Look at 6th grade reading books from 1850. Then look at what 6th
> graders today are expected to (but usually can't) read.
>
> Twelve year olds are getting DUMBER. Way dumber. Time was, at 12, you
> were almost an adult -- you'd be married in a few years and expected
> to support your new family. Today, people are not expected to 'grow
> up' until their mid to late 20s.
>
> 'Jaded' is not 'smarter'.


must be an American thing for you guys, its smarter in Australia

--
A vibration is a motion that cannot make up its mind which way it wants
to go.

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Darrel Hoffman typed:
> The guy who directed Ep IV is, well, slightly dead.

(LOL!) ;-)

And yet he keeps making them... maybe that explains it,
Lucas is actually a zombie of some sort. ;-)


--
};> Matt v3.2 <:{

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"mec'devil" <delusions@fools.paradise.net.nz> writes:

> And yet he keeps making them... maybe that explains it,
> Lucas is actually a zombie of some sort. ;-)

Yes, I think the person you responded to was thinking of Richard
Marquand, the director of Ep. VI: RotJ. He died in 1987.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> > And yet he keeps making them... maybe that explains it,
> > Lucas is actually a zombie of some sort. ;-)
>
> Yes, I think the person you responded to was thinking of Richard
> Marquand, the director of Ep. VI: RotJ. He died in 1987.

Oops, of course I meant VI, not IV. Damn roman numerals. Was copying what
was written in the original post. But it's actually kind of a funny slip-up
when you think about it...

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 05:57:51 GMT, Troll <newstroll@shaw.ca> wrote:

>Alfie [UK] wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:45:23 -0000, "Morgan Sales"
>> <msales.DIESPAMMER@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>>You can't really say that Lucas doesn't understand the franchise seeing as
>>>he wrote the bloody films.
>>>
>>
>> I think the problem most of the older fans have is that they grew up
>> with it, as pre-teen or young teenage boys, from when Ep IV came out (I
>> was seven).
>>
>> Lucas was aiming at the pre-teen/young teen market from the start and
>> has continued in that vein, maybe lowering the age-sight a little, and
>> the older fans feel that the franchise hasn't grown with them.
>>
>> Lucas never intended that it should grow up. If you ever saw any of the
>> interviews with him back then (1977) he talked about it exactly the same
>> way as he does now about the new films, like he's pitching to 8-14 year
>> olds. All he's done is update his original story ideas using current
>> technological abilities to turn it into movies, and in the differences
>> between Original and Special Editions of Eps IV-VI you can see how he
>> had to scale his original ideas back because of technological
>> constraints.
>>
>> I think any hints of the darker side, or the more adult humour, came
>> mostly from the actors themselves, particularly Harrison Ford, who
>> supposedly liked to 'do things his way' once he became Hollywood
>> hot-property and realised that he had some clout.
>>
>> The only real problem I've ever had with the franchise is that Lucas
>> should stop trying to have so much input on the dialog and let a decent
>> script writer at it, but I doubt that will ever happen.
>>
>
>That would also help to avoid unnecessary (and mind-bogglingly stupid)
>items like metachlorians (sp?) and a political system that has an
>elected monarchy (?!?) where 14 year olds are the most compelling
>candidates (one suspects that maybe the Gungans are *not* the dumbest
>things that walk on two legs on Naboo). IMO, those all make the "it's
>the ship that did the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs" line look like it
>was written by Stephen Hawking.

I thought that line had been explained. Something about it not being a
accidental use of a measurement of distance used in place of one of time but
that the Kessel run was something you could navigate i.e. you could take
different routes from London to Cambridge.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Lizard" <lizard@mrlizard.com> wrote in message
news:av8041t4h6bbmoe0eibgo5h7jmsmieonj2@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:28:06 +1100, "Highlandish"
> <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrotC RIVE_E
>
>>LOL, I even stayed up for the second movie, some weird lizard alien landed
>>and died, a guy picked up the alien talisman and wore it on his chest, it
>>melded with him and he went on a rampage with the alien laser gun until he
>>was hunted down and killed.
>
> This would be 'Laserblast', which has the distinct honour(?) of being
> the last movie MSTed.

The last movie in season 7. There were three more seasons after that.
Diabolik was the last one.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

James Garvin <jgarvin2004@comcast.net> once tried to test me with:

>> The thing is Jar Jar as written might not have been so frickin'
>> annoying. What was annoying about him was his stupid, irritating,
>> grating voice. Had they not made it sound so stupid and aweful, I
>> might have been able to just safely ignore Jar Jar. But no. You hear
>> it. You can't help but hear it. And hearing it leads to hate. I can
>> feel my anger.
>
> Hate is the path to the dark side. Once you travel down the dark side
> you can disembowel Jar Jar and catch "Ani" on fire! WOOOO!!

Actually this is the reason that I want to get Star Wars Battlefront when
it gets under $20 so I can run around and blow away Gungans and Ewoks.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Quoth The Raven "Lizard"<lizard@mrlizard.com> in
av8041t4h6bbmoe0eibgo5h7jmsmieonj2@4ax.com
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:28:06 +1100, "Highlandish"
> <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrotC RIVE_E
>
>>LOL, I even stayed up for the second movie, some weird lizard alien
>>landed and died, a guy picked up the alien talisman and wore it on
>>his chest, it melded with him and he went on a rampage with the alien
>>laser gun until he was hunted down and killed.
>
> This would be 'Laserblast', which has the distinct honour(?) of being
> the last movie MSTed.

lol, that's the one

--
To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated, but not be able to say it.

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 05:57:51 GMT, Troll wrote:

<snip>
> That would also help to avoid unnecessary (and mind-bogglingly stupid)
> items like metachlorians (sp?) and a political system that has an
> elected monarchy (?!?) where 14 year olds are the most compelling
> candidates (one suspects that maybe the Gungans are *not* the dumbest
> things that walk on two legs on Naboo). IMO, those all make the "it's
> the ship that did the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs" line look like it
> was written by Stephen Hawking.
Hmmm well then maybe we should do a study of the relative intelligence of
the caucasian looking humanoids on Naboo versus the big floppy eared
reptilian bipeds on Naboo.... oh yeah..... it's a movie!!!

--
RJB
3/23/2005 8:31:11 AM

Love your enemies. It really pisses them off!
--Unknown

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Memnoch wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 05:57:51 GMT, Troll <newstroll@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>Alfie [UK] wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:45:23 -0000, "Morgan Sales"
>>><msales.DIESPAMMER@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>You can't really say that Lucas doesn't understand the franchise seeing as
>>>>he wrote the bloody films.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I think the problem most of the older fans have is that they grew up
>>>with it, as pre-teen or young teenage boys, from when Ep IV came out (I
>>>was seven).
>>>
>>>Lucas was aiming at the pre-teen/young teen market from the start and
>>>has continued in that vein, maybe lowering the age-sight a little, and
>>>the older fans feel that the franchise hasn't grown with them.
>>>
>>>Lucas never intended that it should grow up. If you ever saw any of the
>>>interviews with him back then (1977) he talked about it exactly the same
>>>way as he does now about the new films, like he's pitching to 8-14 year
>>>olds. All he's done is update his original story ideas using current
>>>technological abilities to turn it into movies, and in the differences
>>>between Original and Special Editions of Eps IV-VI you can see how he
>>>had to scale his original ideas back because of technological
>>>constraints.
>>>
>>>I think any hints of the darker side, or the more adult humour, came
>>>mostly from the actors themselves, particularly Harrison Ford, who
>>>supposedly liked to 'do things his way' once he became Hollywood
>>>hot-property and realised that he had some clout.
>>>
>>>The only real problem I've ever had with the franchise is that Lucas
>>>should stop trying to have so much input on the dialog and let a decent
>>>script writer at it, but I doubt that will ever happen.
>>>
>>
>>That would also help to avoid unnecessary (and mind-bogglingly stupid)
>>items like metachlorians (sp?) and a political system that has an
>>elected monarchy (?!?) where 14 year olds are the most compelling
>>candidates (one suspects that maybe the Gungans are *not* the dumbest
>>things that walk on two legs on Naboo). IMO, those all make the "it's
>>the ship that did the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs" line look like it
>>was written by Stephen Hawking.
>
>
> I thought that line had been explained. Something about it not being a
> accidental use of a measurement of distance used in place of one of time but
> that the Kessel run was something you could navigate i.e. you could take
> different routes from London to Cambridge.

Right. The idea is that there is a black hole near Kessel. If you do
it in 12 parsecs you come awfully close the the black hole...Usually the
Kessel run in 16 parsecs.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

JWB wrote:

> "Lizard" <lizard@mrlizard.com> wrote in message
> news:av8041t4h6bbmoe0eibgo5h7jmsmieonj2@4ax.com...
>
>>On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:28:06 +1100, "Highlandish"
>><ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrotC RIVE_E
>>
>>
>>>LOL, I even stayed up for the second movie, some weird lizard alien landed
>>>and died, a guy picked up the alien talisman and wore it on his chest, it
>>>melded with him and he went on a rampage with the alien laser gun until he
>>>was hunted down and killed.
>>
>>This would be 'Laserblast', which has the distinct honour(?) of being
>>the last movie MSTed.
>
>
> The last movie in season 7. There were three more seasons after that.
> Diabolik was the last one.

I'm surprised Uwe, The Toilet, Boll didn't direct that stinker...

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Knight37 wrote:

> James Garvin <jgarvin2004@comcast.net> once tried to test me with:
>
>
>>>The thing is Jar Jar as written might not have been so frickin'
>>>annoying. What was annoying about him was his stupid, irritating,
>>>grating voice. Had they not made it sound so stupid and aweful, I
>>>might have been able to just safely ignore Jar Jar. But no. You hear
>>>it. You can't help but hear it. And hearing it leads to hate. I can
>>>feel my anger.
>>
>>Hate is the path to the dark side. Once you travel down the dark side
>>you can disembowel Jar Jar and catch "Ani" on fire! WOOOO!!
>
>
> Actually this is the reason that I want to get Star Wars Battlefront when
> it gets under $20 so I can run around and blow away Gungans and Ewoks.

Agreed. The sooner Battlefront hits the bargain bins, the sooner I kill
all the gungans!!

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

RJB wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 05:57:51 GMT, Troll wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>That would also help to avoid unnecessary (and mind-bogglingly stupid)
>>items like metachlorians (sp?) and a political system that has an
>>elected monarchy (?!?) where 14 year olds are the most compelling
>>candidates (one suspects that maybe the Gungans are *not* the dumbest
>>things that walk on two legs on Naboo). IMO, those all make the "it's
>>the ship that did the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs" line look like it
>>was written by Stephen Hawking.
>
> Hmmm well then maybe we should do a study of the relative intelligence of
> the caucasian looking humanoids on Naboo versus the big floppy eared
> reptilian bipeds on Naboo.... oh yeah..... it's a movie!!!

You forgot about the token black guard...

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

James Garvin wrote:
> JWB wrote:
>
>> *cough* Yoda *cough*
>
> For kids he is, yes...

Yoda's just a Star Wars version of the 'eccentric Sage' archetype. If he
was for kids, he would've had googly eyes and a collection of dead-fish
boomerangs.

--
Remove the mess to reply.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Cataleptic wrote:
> James Garvin wrote:
>
>> JWB wrote:
>>
>>> *cough* Yoda *cough*
>>
>>
>> For kids he is, yes...
>
>
> Yoda's just a Star Wars version of the 'eccentric Sage' archetype. If he
> was for kids, he would've had googly eyes and a collection of dead-fish
> boomerangs.

Dead fish boomerangs????

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"James Garvin" <jgarvin2004@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gZ-dnSgubPD3C93fRVn-qw@comcast.com...
> Cataleptic wrote:
> > James Garvin wrote:
> >
> >> JWB wrote:
> >>
> >>> *cough* Yoda *cough*
> >>
> >>
> >> For kids he is, yes...
> >
> >
> > Yoda's just a Star Wars version of the 'eccentric Sage' archetype. If he
> > was for kids, he would've had googly eyes and a collection of dead-fish
> > boomerangs.
>
> Dead fish boomerangs????

The Swedish Chef, I think (Muppet Show).

RelMark

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Memnoch wrote:

> I thought that line had been explained. Something about it not being a
> accidental use of a measurement of distance used in place of one of time but
> that the Kessel run was something you could navigate i.e. you could take
> different routes from London to Cambridge.

Whether it was originally intended this way or not, I don't know, but
it's been explained as follows (at
http://www.nitpickers.com/movies/nitpick.cgi?np=495): "the Kessel Run is
the 18-parsec route around the Maw cluster of black holes used by
smugglers to evade Imperial ships that restrict the shipment of
glitterstim ("spice" - mined on kessel) - smugglers try to shave time
off the route by finding a path closer to the Maw - which requires, as
had been mentioned, higher speed to escape the gravitational pull - a
short route demonstrates both speed and navigational skill. Han holds
the record for the kessel run with a full load, at 11.5 parsecs."

Apparently it's in the commentary on the A New Hope DVD, by Lucas
himself. I don't really mind if it is made up after the fact, it's good
enough for me to suspend disbelief :-)

Cheers,
Grant