Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Stupid question about soldering

Last response: in Home Audio
Share
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 5:00:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have a temp controlled soldering station. On the top of it is a
metal tray with a small dry sponge on it. I thought it was asbestos or
something to wipe the excess solder off the tip.

I was going to show my daughter how to solder, and she got out the
kit, took out the sponge and wet it with water. Now that never
occurred to me (stuff like this is why we have females in our lives).

So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
while using the soldering station? My forst thought was that leaving
that damp thing there is eventually going to rust the tray, but what
do I know?

Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org
January 10, 2005 5:00:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Willie K.Yee, M.D. wrote:

> So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
> while using the soldering station? My forst thought was that leaving
> that damp thing there is eventually going to rust the tray, but what
> do I know?
>
> Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
> Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
> Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org
>

I always moisten that sponge. When it's wet, it works much better for
cleaning the crud off the tip while soldering.

--
Eric

www.Raw-Tracks.com
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 5:00:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Willie K.Yee, M.D." <wkyee@bestweb.netttttttttttttttt> wrote in message
news:41e1e06d.8558321@nntp.bestweb.net...
> I have a temp controlled soldering station. On the top of it is a
> metal tray with a small dry sponge on it. I thought it was asbestos or
> something to wipe the excess solder off the tip.
>

i leave it dry ...but i dont use it either

i prefer a cheap brass machinist brush (it dosent cool the tip, never needs
water, and dosent make sizzeling noises )
Related resources
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 5:00:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Electronics grade solder (60/40)...

If you can find it (it's not difficult), you should purchase 63/37 solder. That
ratio is "eutectic" -- it has the lowest melting point of any tin/lead alloy,
and does not have a plastic state -- it goes directly from solid to liquid. Both
these properties reduce the chance of a "cold" or otherwise defective joint.

The difference in price between 60/40 and 63/37 is not great. There's no excuse
for not using the latter.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 5:00:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 23:25:52 -0500, "TimPerry"
<timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote:

>i leave it dry ...but i dont use it either
>
>i prefer a cheap brass machinist brush (it dosent cool the tip, never needs
>water, and dosent make sizzeling noises )
>

But I like that sizzling sound... though I imagine Carla's sizzle
wouldn't've been nearly as...ummm... well, I was gonna say
entertaining, but I imagine, the cruel bastard I am, I'd've died
laughing.

Then empathized with her about the time a hot bolt from a leaf spring
I was cutting apart with an acetylene torch popped off and flew
through a hole in my jeans (outside of the thigh, luckily...).


jtougas

listen- there's a hell of a good universe next door
let's go

e.e. cummings
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 5:00:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

jtougas wrote:

> But I like that sizzling sound... though I imagine Carla's sizzle
> wouldn't've been nearly as...ummm... well, I was gonna say
> entertaining, but I imagine, the cruel bastard I am, I'd've died
> laughing.

Speaking of which.. I once grabbed the wrong end. Must have been 20 some
years ago. Probably high or something.

I never did THAT again.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 7:25:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 02:00:00 GMT, wkyee@bestweb.netttttttttttttttt
(Willie K.Yee, M.D.) wrote:

> Now that never
>occurred to me (stuff like this is why we have females in our lives).

More great .sig material.

>So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
>while using the soldering station?

And even stranger: leave the iron dirty. Clean (just) before use.
Yeah, I know, but it's true.

Good soldering,

Chris Hornbeck
"Conscious that we must have sprung from somewhere, we are
lured to the riddle of our origins." -Malcolm W. Browne
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 7:50:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Willie K.Yee, M.D." wrote:

> So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
> while using the soldering station?

Yes.

I occasionally add a drop of dishwashing agent too, makes it even better
at cleaning the soldering iron.

> My forst thought was that leaving that damp thing there is
> eventually going to rust the tray, but what do I know?

My occasionally used and 30 years old Weller is still A OK.

> Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 8:00:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"TimPerry" <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote in message
news:RqqdnZXxnp14nn_cRVn-ow@adelphia.com...
>
> "Willie K.Yee, M.D." <wkyee@bestweb.netttttttttttttttt> wrote in message
> news:41e1e06d.8558321@nntp.bestweb.net...
> > I have a temp controlled soldering station. On the top of it is a
> > metal tray with a small dry sponge on it. I thought it was asbestos or
> > something to wipe the excess solder off the tip.
> >
>
> i leave it dry ...but i dont use it either
>
> i prefer a cheap brass machinist brush (it dosent cool the tip, never
needs
> water, and dosent make sizzeling noises )

The downside to such a brush is that as you wipe the soldering iron on the
brush, the bristles spring back and fling little bits of molten solder at
you... wear your safety glasses..

Doesn't happen with the moist sponge...

Nowadays I solder so infrequently that the sponge is always dry and I got in
the bad habit of wiping the soldering iron on the leg of my jeans prior to
using it...

Cured myself instantly the day I wore a miniskirt - true story... <blush>

Carla
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 8:00:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> "TimPerry" <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:RqqdnZXxnp14nn_cRVn-ow@adelphia.com...
>
>>>
>>> "Willie K.Yee, M.D." <wkyee@bestweb.netttttttttttttttt> wrote in message
>>> news:41e1e06d.8558321@nntp.bestweb.net...
>>
>>>> > I have a temp controlled soldering station. On the top of it is a
>>>> > metal tray with a small dry sponge on it. I thought it was asbestos or
>>>> > something to wipe the excess solder off the tip.
>>>> >
>>
>>>
>>> i leave it dry ...but i dont use it either
>>>
>>> i prefer a cheap brass machinist brush (it dosent cool the tip, never
>
> needs
>
>>> water, and dosent make sizzeling noises )
>
>
> The downside to such a brush is that as you wipe the soldering iron on the
> brush, the bristles spring back and fling little bits of molten solder at
> you... wear your safety glasses..
>
> Doesn't happen with the moist sponge...
>
> Nowadays I solder so infrequently that the sponge is always dry and I got in
> the bad habit of wiping the soldering iron on the leg of my jeans prior to
> using it...
>
> Cured myself instantly the day I wore a miniskirt - true story... <blush>
>
> Carla
>
>
>

I keep a large glass of water next to my soldering station. I dip the
sponge into the glass of water when I turn the soldering iron on. I
still need to fill the glass now and then, but much more seldom than if
I had no glass and had to moisten the sponge all the time. If the sponge
is starting to get dry, I just dip it in the glass again. It's easy when
there is a glass of water right there.

Of course, my soldering station stays in one location about 99% of the
time, so this method is fairly easy to maintain.

John Hardy
The John Hardy Co.
www.johnhardyco.com
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 8:00:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hmm, moisten the sponge? Someone should have told me some years ago,
damn. The sponge I have at the moment must be at least 15 years old.
Never have washed it. Got a new iron about 3 years ago, though.

Carla Fong wrote:
> "TimPerry" <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:RqqdnZXxnp14nn_cRVn-ow@adelphia.com...
>
>>"Willie K.Yee, M.D." <wkyee@bestweb.netttttttttttttttt> wrote in message
>>news:41e1e06d.8558321@nntp.bestweb.net...
>>
>>>I have a temp controlled soldering station. On the top of it is a
>>>metal tray with a small dry sponge on it. I thought it was asbestos or
>>>something to wipe the excess solder off the tip.
>>>
>>
>>i leave it dry ...but i dont use it either
>>
>>i prefer a cheap brass machinist brush (it dosent cool the tip, never
>
> needs
>
>>water, and dosent make sizzeling noises )
>
>
> The downside to such a brush is that as you wipe the soldering iron on the
> brush, the bristles spring back and fling little bits of molten solder at
> you... wear your safety glasses..
>
> Doesn't happen with the moist sponge...
>
> Nowadays I solder so infrequently that the sponge is always dry and I got in
> the bad habit of wiping the soldering iron on the leg of my jeans prior to
> using it...
>
> Cured myself instantly the day I wore a miniskirt - true story... <blush>
>
> Carla
>
>
>
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 10:24:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Dropped the iron one time and it landed between my shoe and my leg. Made me
dance - and I don't dance.


"Joe Sensor" <crabcakes@emagic.net> wrote in message
news:34ekshF49vr1nU2@individual.net...
> jtougas wrote:
>
>> But I like that sizzling sound... though I imagine Carla's sizzle
>> wouldn't've been nearly as...ummm... well, I was gonna say
>> entertaining, but I imagine, the cruel bastard I am, I'd've died
>> laughing.
>
> Speaking of which.. I once grabbed the wrong end. Must have been 20 some
> years ago. Probably high or something.
>
> I never did THAT again.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 11:05:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Many years ago I worked at a music store, and sometimes my duties involved
assisting the repair tech. Sometimes when I wasn't looking, he would
simultaneously touch his soldering iron to the wet sponge and a pencil to my
arm just so he could see my reaction. Funny guy.

"TimPerry" <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote in message
news:RqqdnZXxnp14nn_cRVn-ow@adelphia.com...
>
> "Willie K.Yee, M.D." <wkyee@bestweb.netttttttttttttttt> wrote in message
> news:41e1e06d.8558321@nntp.bestweb.net...
> > I have a temp controlled soldering station. On the top of it is a
> > metal tray with a small dry sponge on it. I thought it was asbestos or
> > something to wipe the excess solder off the tip.
> >
>
> i leave it dry ...but i dont use it either
>
> i prefer a cheap brass machinist brush (it dosent cool the tip, never
needs
> water, and dosent make sizzeling noises )
>
>
>
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 12:08:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Electronics grade solder (60/40) uses rosin flux, which is water
> soluable.

The wet sponge will remove rosin core flux from the hot tip, but not all
fluxes can be removed from the p.c. board with water after things have
cooled down. There are some solders that have water-washable flux which
can be wiped off of the p.c. board with a damp rag, or rinsed away under
a faucet if practical, though the stream of faucet water may get into
and damage some parts. Flux does not always have to be removed, but
things look so much better when it has been removed.

The only things that are hand soldered in my M-1 mic preamps are the
four voltage regulators. It is easier to add them after the heat sinks
are in place and everything else is lined up. I use solder with water
washable flux for the job. When I finish soldering, I dip an old cotton
sock (WigWam) in water and use it to clean the flux residue away. Looks
great.

John Hardy
The John Hardy Co.
www.johnhardyco.com
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 12:12:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Willie K.Yee, M.D." <wkyee@bestweb.netttttttttttttttt> wrote in
message news:41e1e06d.8558321@nntp.bestweb.net

> So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
> while using the soldering station?

FWIW yes, but everybody already told you that.

> My forst thought was that leaving
> that damp thing there is eventually going to rust the tray, but what
> do I know?

Will, you're my hero because you honor truth enough to subject yourself to
the potential indignity of asking a question like this.

Seriously, you're my hero for at least the day.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 12:52:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <41e1e06d.8558321@nntp.bestweb.net>,
Willie K.Yee, M.D. <wkyeeATbestwebDOTnet> wrote:
>I have a temp controlled soldering station. On the top of it is a
>metal tray with a small dry sponge on it. I thought it was asbestos or
>something to wipe the excess solder off the tip.
>
>I was going to show my daughter how to solder, and she got out the
>kit, took out the sponge and wet it with water. Now that never
>occurred to me (stuff like this is why we have females in our lives).
>
>So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
>while using the soldering station? My forst thought was that leaving
>that damp thing there is eventually going to rust the tray, but what
>do I know?

Yes. The tray is stainless or aluminum. Keep it damp all the time. It
is for wiping the gunk and dross off the tip.

The key to making good connections is to keep the iron as clean as possible,
keep the work as clean as possible, and use eutectic solder.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 12:52:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:



> The key to making good connections is to keep the iron as clean as possible,
> keep the work as clean as possible, and use eutectic solder.


I had been build electronic stuff for years in high school, and I had
NEVER seen eutectic solder; I *had* seen 60-40 and 50-50 and even 70-30.
When I took properties of materials as a 1st year engineering student,
I asked the prof why they didn't make eutectic solder, it seemed like a
no-brainer. His reply was that there was probably a mechanical reason,
perhaps to make a more rigid connection.

So when was 63-47 first marketed? I'm guessing it was long before 1968
and we were both just clueless. I was a kid, he was an ME, so we both
had an excuse.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 12:55:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <RqqdnZXxnp14nn_cRVn-ow@adelphia.com>,
TimPerry <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote:
>
>"Willie K.Yee, M.D." <wkyee@bestweb.netttttttttttttttt> wrote in message
>news:41e1e06d.8558321@nntp.bestweb.net...
>> I have a temp controlled soldering station. On the top of it is a
>> metal tray with a small dry sponge on it. I thought it was asbestos or
>> something to wipe the excess solder off the tip.
>>
>
>i leave it dry ...but i dont use it either
>
>i prefer a cheap brass machinist brush (it dosent cool the tip, never needs
>water, and dosent make sizzeling noises )

It doesn't clean the tip anywhere near as well, though. And it very quickly
wears off the iron plating on the tip. You'll find tips last a lot longer
with the sponge. Same goes for the copper mesh stuff.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 1:38:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <RqqdnZXxnp14nn_cRVn-ow@adelphia.com> timperry@noaspamadelphia.net writes:

> i leave it dry ...but i dont use it either

I sometimes wish I would take the trouble to hook it up to a water
line. I always have to take it to the bathroom and soak it, but it's
handy for wiping the tip of the soldering iron.

Oh, and it's not asbestos, it's a cellulose sponge. The water keeps it
from burning or melting. Perfectly safe.

-- No sponges have been killed to write this message.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 2:14:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 01:21:01 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<williams@nwlink.com> wrote:

>The difference in price between 60/40 and 63/37 is not great. There's no excuse
>for not using the latter. <snip>

The problem with using 63/37 on a hand soldered joint is that it is
not easy to work with on some joints, due to its change from solid to
liquid without a transitory plastic state. However, eutectic solder
is prefered for wave soldering and the like, and when applicable,
generally turns out a better joint than does 60/40. However, if
someone is skilled at soldering and knows how to properly clean and
heat a joint, there should be no functional difference.

dB
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 2:25:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

John Hardy <johnwellshardy@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Electronics grade solder (60/40) uses rosin flux, which is water
>> soluable.
>
>The wet sponge will remove rosin core flux from the hot tip, but not all
>fluxes can be removed from the p.c. board with water after things have
>cooled down. There are some solders that have water-washable flux which
>can be wiped off of the p.c. board with a damp rag, or rinsed away under
>a faucet if practical, though the stream of faucet water may get into
>and damage some parts. Flux does not always have to be removed, but
>things look so much better when it has been removed.

The water-washable flux sold as "organic flux" smells nasty, and it MUST
be washed off. In production facilities they basically run boards through
industrial washing machines to remove the stuff.

>The only things that are hand soldered in my M-1 mic preamps are the
>four voltage regulators. It is easier to add them after the heat sinks
>are in place and everything else is lined up. I use solder with water
>washable flux for the job. When I finish soldering, I dip an old cotton
>sock (WigWam) in water and use it to clean the flux residue away. Looks
>great.

I don't like the water-washable flux, because it doesn't flow as well as
the rosin stuff to my mind. But, if you are working on high-Z circuits
where the flux absolutely must be removed in order to prevent leakage
paths, the water-washable stuff is much easier to remove. The alternative
is to use nasty solvents... and now that TF is gone, the only ways to
remove rosin flux are with isopropanol and a lot of elbow grease, or with
something like Chemtronics Flux-Off which is a mixture of pretty nasty stuff
that requires a lot of EPA paperwork in a production facility.

I still like using rosin-core solder. It smells wonderful, and it flows
very well.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 3:47:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

S O'Neill <nopsam@nospam.net> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> The key to making good connections is to keep the iron as clean as possible,
>> keep the work as clean as possible, and use eutectic solder.
>
>I had been build electronic stuff for years in high school, and I had
>NEVER seen eutectic solder; I *had* seen 60-40 and 50-50 and even 70-30.
> When I took properties of materials as a 1st year engineering student,
>I asked the prof why they didn't make eutectic solder, it seemed like a
>no-brainer. His reply was that there was probably a mechanical reason,
>perhaps to make a more rigid connection.

A lot of people still prefer 60/40 solder because it flows much more easily
than 63/37. 60/40 has an easier time holding onto a surface. Also, of
course, if you are doing rework and you mix two kinds of solder, you are
going to get something weird with unknown characteristics.

>So when was 63-47 first marketed? I'm guessing it was long before 1968
>and we were both just clueless. I was a kid, he was an ME, so we both
>had an excuse.

I don't know. I know that in the late sixties it was being used in military
work. But for the most part, I didn't see it outside of the military until
rather recently.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 3:59:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> The water-washable flux sold as "organic flux" smells nasty, and it MUST
> be washed off. In production facilities they basically run boards through
> industrial washing machines to remove the stuff.

Yeah, the water-washable flux smells really bad when hand-soldering. I
use a water washable flux with my wave solder machine, making flux
removal fairly easy.

> I still like using rosin-core solder. It smells wonderful, and it flows
> very well.

I agree. I miss that smell, and still use that type of solder in some
situations.

John Hardy
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 4:52:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Willie K.Yee, M.D."
>I have a temp controlled soldering station. On the top of it is a
> metal tray with a small dry sponge on it. I thought it was asbestos or
> something to wipe the excess solder off the tip.
>
> I was going to show my daughter how to solder, and she got out the
> kit, took out the sponge and wet it with water. Now that never
> occurred to me (stuff like this is why we have females in our lives).
>
> So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
> while using the soldering station? My forst thought was that leaving
> that damp thing there is eventually going to rust the tray, but what
> do I know?
>


** The sponge needs to be kept wet - or else it will burn evertime you wipe
the hot iron on it.

That tray is made of stainless steel so it will not rust.





............... Phil
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 4:56:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>
> --Now this is a constructive advice.

Warning: I AM associated with this company...if a commercial plug is totally
forbidden, I apologize, and move along...there's nothing to see here.
Otherwise, this plug seems to be on topic.

Heathkit sells a Learn to Solder kit. It comes with a book, a handful of
electronic parts, some solder, and a circuit board. There's even a video
tape available, it's extra. If you regularly (or even ocassionally) need to
teach someone how to solder, this kit is probably a good idea. It might also
keep otherwise unoccupied interns busy doing something other than fiddling
with knobs. :-)

Model # EI-3133, $34. phone: 800.253.0570

-John O
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 5:00:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
> while using the soldering station?

Yep, soak it and wring out most of the extra water. A puddle is not good,
you just want it damp enough to wipe off the burned flux and other crud.

The alternative is to load up the tip with a bunch of solder and fling the
excess onto the floor. That gets a bit messy, and doesn't work well at home.
(the females will help with that decision, too.)

Have fun with that young lady. That skill is probably something she'll be
able to impress some slug-of-a-guy with someday. ;-)

-John O
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 5:46:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Willie K.Yee, M.D." wrote:

> I have a temp controlled soldering station. On the top of it is a
> metal tray with a small dry sponge on it. I thought it was asbestos or
> something to wipe the excess solder off the tip.

It's not asbestos for sure.

Yes, it is inteneded for 'tipwiping'.

> I was going to show my daughter how to solder, and she got out the
> kit, took out the sponge and wet it with water. Now that never
> occurred to me (stuff like this is why we have females in our lives).

Your daughter is smarter than you !


> So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
> while using the soldering station?

Yes.

> My forst thought was that leaving
> that damp thing there is eventually going to rust the tray, but what
> do I know?

You know very little it seems.


Graham
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 5:50:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "Willie K.Yee, M.D." <wkyee@bestweb.netttttttttttttttt> wrote in
> message news:41e1e06d.8558321@nntp.bestweb.net
>
> > So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
> > while using the soldering station?
>
> FWIW yes, but everybody already told you that.
>
> > My forst thought was that leaving
> > that damp thing there is eventually going to rust the tray, but what
> > do I know?
>
> Will, you're my hero because you honor truth enough to subject yourself to
> the potential indignity of asking a question like this.
>
> Seriously, you're my hero for at least the day.

I like your response !

Might I say RTFM ! or even google
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=soldering+advice...


Graham
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 6:08:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

DeserTBoB <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 01:21:01 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
><williams@nwlink.com> wrote:
>
>>The difference in price between 60/40 and 63/37 is not great. There's no excuse
>>for not using the latter. <snip>
>
>The problem with using 63/37 on a hand soldered joint is that it is
>not easy to work with on some joints, due to its change from solid to
>liquid without a transitory plastic state. However, eutectic solder
>is prefered for wave soldering and the like, and when applicable,
>generally turns out a better joint than does 60/40. However, if
>someone is skilled at soldering and knows how to properly clean and
>heat a joint, there should be no functional difference.

Yes, but when you're cramped up in the bottom of a rack, or hanging off
the side of an antenna tower, being able to solder without having the
work tightly secured is a real plus. The thing about 63/37 is that, in
spite of the poorer flow, you don't have to hold things perfectly steady
to avoid a cold joint.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 7:37:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:26:31 -0800, S O'Neill <nopsam@nospam.net> wrote:
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>
>
>> The key to making good connections is to keep the iron as clean as possible,
>> keep the work as clean as possible, and use eutectic solder.
>
>
> I had been build electronic stuff for years in high school, and I had
> NEVER seen eutectic solder; I *had* seen 60-40 and 50-50 and even 70-30.
> When I took properties of materials as a 1st year engineering student,
> I asked the prof why they didn't make eutectic solder, it seemed like a
> no-brainer. His reply was that there was probably a mechanical reason,
> perhaps to make a more rigid connection.
>
> So when was 63-47 first marketed? I'm guessing it was long before 1968
> and we were both just clueless. I was a kid, he was an ME, so we both
> had an excuse.

Sn63 has been around at least as long as they've been wave
soldering--Sn60 has always been a good bit cheaper. Probably was
restricted to wave applications because the wave machine had the
economics of scale and recycled the unused material.

Nowadays with BGAs, I'm fairly certain they use high temp alloys, but
I'm stuck in a 63/37 universe hand soldering, so I cannot say for
certain.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 9:39:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

hank alrich wrote:

> Pooh Bear wrote:
>
> > You know very little it seems.
>
> I'll wager he plays much better jazz guitar than you do, Pooh.
>

No contest :-)


Graham
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 9:41:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> S O'Neill <nopsam@nospam.net> wrote:
> >Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >
> >> The key to making good connections is to keep the iron as clean as possible,
> >> keep the work as clean as possible, and use eutectic solder.
> >
> >I had been build electronic stuff for years in high school, and I had
> >NEVER seen eutectic solder; I *had* seen 60-40 and 50-50 and even 70-30.
> > When I took properties of materials as a 1st year engineering student,
> >I asked the prof why they didn't make eutectic solder, it seemed like a
> >no-brainer. His reply was that there was probably a mechanical reason,
> >perhaps to make a more rigid connection.
>
> A lot of people still prefer 60/40 solder because it flows much more easily
> than 63/37. 60/40 has an easier time holding onto a surface. Also, of
> course, if you are doing rework and you mix two kinds of solder, you are
> going to get something weird with unknown characteristics.
>
> >So when was 63-47 first marketed? I'm guessing it was long before 1968
> >and we were both just clueless. I was a kid, he was an ME, so we both
> >had an excuse.
>
> I don't know. I know that in the late sixties it was being used in military
> work. But for the most part, I didn't see it outside of the military until
> rather recently.
> --scott

Hmmmm.

You haven't seen the recent upcoming lead free legislation obviously ?


Graham
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 9:41:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <41E2CC71.D2755CF9@hotmail.com>,
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com says...
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> > S O'Neill <nopsam@nospam.net> wrote:
> > >Scott Dorsey wrote:
> > >
> > >> The key to making good connections is to keep the iron as clean as possible,
> > >> keep the work as clean as possible, and use eutectic solder.
> > >
> > >I had been build electronic stuff for years in high school, and I had
> > >NEVER seen eutectic solder; I *had* seen 60-40 and 50-50 and even 70-30.
> > > When I took properties of materials as a 1st year engineering student,
> > >I asked the prof why they didn't make eutectic solder, it seemed like a
> > >no-brainer. His reply was that there was probably a mechanical reason,
> > >perhaps to make a more rigid connection.
> >
> > A lot of people still prefer 60/40 solder because it flows much more easily
> > than 63/37. 60/40 has an easier time holding onto a surface. Also, of
> > course, if you are doing rework and you mix two kinds of solder, you are
> > going to get something weird with unknown characteristics.
> >
> > >So when was 63-47 first marketed? I'm guessing it was long before 1968
> > >and we were both just clueless. I was a kid, he was an ME, so we both
> > >had an excuse.
> >
> > I don't know. I know that in the late sixties it was being used in military
> > work. But for the most part, I didn't see it outside of the military until
> > rather recently.
> > --scott
>
> Hmmmm.
>
> You haven't seen the recent upcoming lead free legislation obviously ?
>
>
> Graham
>
>
During electronics training we were told 60-40 was easier to manufacture
than 63-37 eutectic. I worked electronics for 30+ years and used both
60-40 and 63-37. I believe 63-37 had a slightly lower melting point
(361 deg F), (60-40 368 deg F). I found the flow nearly the same, flow
seemed more to do with the flux. Eutectic solder has no plastic state,
it goes from liquid to solid with no between soft plastic state as it
cools. The advantage is less chance of causing a disturbed solder joint
since you don't have to hold the joint steady as long while it cools
through the plastic state.
--
I.Care
Address fake
until the SPAM goes away
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 9:41:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <MPG.1c4c8e4d3eea2940989680@news.comcast.giganews.com> I.Care@whocares.com writes:

> During electronics training we were told 60-40 was easier to manufacture
> than 63-37 eutectic.

I don't know that it's any easier to manufacture, but it's certainly
cheaper. Tin is (or at least was) considerably more expensive than
lead. The hard part is drilling those little holes down the middle and
pouring in the flux. Does anyone know what a solder-making machine
looks like?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 9:41:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1105393219k@trad...
>
> In article <MPG.1c4c8e4d3eea2940989680@news.comcast.giganews.com>
> I.Care@whocares.com writes:
>
>> During electronics training we were told 60-40 was easier to manufacture
>> than 63-37 eutectic.
>
> I don't know that it's any easier to manufacture, but it's certainly
> cheaper. Tin is (or at least was) considerably more expensive than
> lead. The hard part is drilling those little holes down the middle and
> pouring in the flux. Does anyone know what a solder-making machine
> looks like?
>
I can tell you how a machine that makes flux-cored welding wire operates.
The steel alloy wire starts as a relatively robust metal strap. Through
successive drawing operations it is made much longer and much thinner. In
the final stage it is folded upon itself longitudinally while immersed in
flux. The flux is trapped in the center. The fold is controlled so that
the join is very tight, and the result is a closed tube full of flux. Cored
solder is likely made with a similar process.

Steve King
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 9:41:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 17:34:06 -0600, "Steve King"
<steve@REMOVETHISSPAMBLOCKsteveking.net> wrote:


>I can tell you how a machine that makes flux-cored welding wire operates.
>The steel alloy wire starts as a relatively robust metal strap. Through
>successive drawing operations it is made much longer and much thinner. In
>the final stage it is folded upon itself longitudinally while immersed in
>flux. The flux is trapped in the center. The fold is controlled so that
>the join is very tight, and the result is a closed tube full of flux. Cored
>solder is likely made with a similar process. <snip>

Not necissarily. Remember the good "Multicore" solder from England?
The best, and it indeed had five lines of rosin flux in the wire.

dB
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 10:04:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:crunbu$f9m$1@panix2.panix.com...

> Yes, but when you're cramped up in the bottom of a rack, or hanging off
> the side of an antenna tower, being able to solder without having the
> work tightly secured is a real plus. The thing about 63/37 is that, in
> spite of the poorer flow, you don't have to hold things perfectly steady
> to avoid a cold joint.

That sounds like just the thing for soldering the shield to those
pain-in-the-ass Neutrik TRS plugs where there's no way to make a mechanical
connection. I'm going to have to finally getting around to trying the
stuff.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore, Maryland
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 10:12:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:56:04 GMT, "John O"
<johno@#no^spam&heathkit.com> wrote:
-----------------8<--------------------------------
>
>Heathkit sells a Learn to Solder kit. It comes with a book, a handful of
>electronic parts, some solder, and a circuit board. There's even a video
>tape available, it's extra. If you regularly (or even ocassionally) need to
>teach someone how to solder, this kit is probably a good idea. It might also
>keep otherwise unoccupied interns busy doing something other than fiddling
>with knobs. :-)
>
>Model # EI-3133, $34. phone: 800.253.0570
>
>-John O
>

-- And there is some other useful info at Cooper tools' webpage:

http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/electronic_applic...


The "Better Soldering" booklet is worthwile downloading. Weller
published an excellent book decades ago, while the company has been
still German, and the book is in German too as far as I know. But some
chances are it has been translated in English too: "Loeten und
Entloeten in Elektrotechnik" [Soldering and Desoldering in
Electrotechnics] as I can remember the title.

{And I don't have any connection with Weller/Copper Tools albeit I
almost cant' solder wirhout soft ticktack of my ancient TCP station
hehe}.


Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 10:39:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"DeserTBoB"

> Electronics grade solder (60/40) uses rosin flux, which is water
> soluble.


** No it is not water soluble.

Water soluble flux is a recent innovation used in large scale manufacture.

Normal solder flux dissolves in many alcohols and other chemicals like
trichloromethane.




............... Phil
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 10:39:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <34et9dF4a427pU1@individual.net> philallison@tpg.com.au writes:

> Normal solder flux dissolves in many alcohols and other chemicals like
> trichloromethane.
^^^^^^^

Is this the principal ingredient in Usenet parrot droppings?

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 10:39:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:39:08 +1100, "Phil Allison"
<philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

> Water soluble flux is a recent innovation used in large scale manufacture.
>
> Normal solder flux dissolves in many alcohols and other chemicals like
>trichloromethane. <snip>

Phil is correct. However, rosin flux may be cleaned up in its plastic
state with water, as can acid flux. Leave the acid flux for radiators
and such, however!

dB
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 10:41:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Phil Allison"

>
> Normal solder flux dissolves in many alcohols and other chemicals like
> trichloroethane.
>


** Dunno where the "m" came from - OE spellchecker strikes again ???



........... Phil
January 11, 2005 12:46:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
> while using the soldering station?

Yes.

Al.
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 1:56:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Joe Sensor wrote:

> Speaking of which.. I once grabbed the wrong end.

Tried it. Do not do that.

> Must have been 20 some
> years ago. Probably high or something.

Not me, it was just a small mains powered soldering iron with a lead
that was rigid enough to cause it to turn 180 degrees on the chair it
was lying on.

> I never did THAT again.

7-9-13 ...


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 1:56:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Peter Larsen" <SPAMSHIELD_plarsen@mail.tele.dk> wrote in message
news:41E2FA0E.2F8444F@mail.tele.dk...
> Joe Sensor wrote:
>
>
> > I never did THAT again.
>
> 7-9-13 ...
>
Wow, that was a while back.

Glenn D.
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 5:05:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Peter Larsen" <SPAMSHIELD_plarsen@mail.tele.dk> wrote in message
news:41E1FB95.77833031@mail.tele.dk...

> My occasionally used and 30 years old Weller is still A OK.

Which begs the question: "Which vintage soldering iron for under $200 makes
the best-sounding connections?" :D 

Neil Henderson
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 3:25:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"DeserTBoB"
>
> Not necissarily. Remember the good "Multicore" solder from England?
> The best, and it indeed had five lines of rosin flux in the wire.
>


** Been using their "Savbit" 5 core solder for 35 years at least - got a
reel on the bench right now.

Says " Made in Malaysia " on the label !!





.............. Phil
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 3:25:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <34go7mF4bi10iU1@individual.net> philallison@tpg.com.au writes:

> ** Been using their "Savbit" 5 core solder for 35 years at least - got a
> reel on the bench right now.

> Says " Made in Malaysia " on the label !!

As I recall, the Savabit solder contained a little copper. Does it say
that on the label too?

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 3:25:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:


> As I recall, the Savabit solder contained a little copper. Does it say
> that on the label too?



That makes a lot of sense, that would allow less of the tip's copper to
dissolve in the solder.
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 8:26:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2005-01-10, Willie K.Yee, M.D. <wkyee@bestweb.netttttttttttttttt> wrote:

> So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
> while using the soldering station?

If you leave the sponge dry, you'll just melt it. The tray might rust
eventually, but I didn't see that in a cable plant I worked in where the
Weller stations had been in 24 hour service for ten years or more.
!