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New soundcard output too low

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Anonymous
January 10, 2005 8:32:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion,alt.comp.ardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I've built a new computer using an Aopen Cobra sound card.(Yes, it's
bottom of the line, but will serve temporarily.) Its output is 6.67 dB
lower than calibrated signals I play from a test CD. Also, line inputs
and audio signals from Winamp and Windows Media Player are too low
compared to my old Ensoniq PCI card.

All the mixer gains are at max. That's both mixers, the one with the
sound card (C-Media) and the one available through Control Panel/Sound
and Multimedia with W2000.

Also, if I try to record loud, heavily modulated FM signals at the Line
Input, the peaks are 6 dB below max. With the old sound card/mixer, I
would have to set one of the gains at 2/3 to prevent clipping.

I'm using the same amplified speakers as on the old computer.

Any ideas what might be reducing the gain?

Thanks,

Ray

More about : soundcard output low

Anonymous
January 11, 2005 9:57:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <mrDEd.53219$BR7.40807@fe08.lga> raykosXXX@optonline.net writes:

> I've built a new computer using an Aopen Cobra sound card.(Yes, it's
> bottom of the line, but will serve temporarily.) Its output is 6.67 dB
> lower than calibrated signals I play from a test CD.

How are you measuring that? With an number like 6.67 dB, I'm certain
that you're doing some sort of digital test.

> Also, line inputs
> and audio signals from Winamp and Windows Media Player are too low
> compared to my old Ensoniq PCI card.

There is no standard input (or output) level that equates to digital
full scale. You get what you get.

> Any ideas what might be reducing the gain?

The design of the card. If you've connected it properly, there's
nothing you can do with it. Turn up the volume control on your
speakers if you want to hear it play louder.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 10:29:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion,alt.comp.ardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Ray K <raykosXXX@optonline.net> wrote in news:mrDEd.53219$BR7.40807
@fe08.lga:

> I've built a new computer using an Aopen Cobra sound card.(Yes, it's
> bottom of the line, but will serve temporarily.)


I never understand why people buy a 50 horsepower car, understanding
that it's 50 HP, and then go ask the mechanic why it won't put out
200 HP.
You get what you pay for.
Related resources
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 12:47:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion,alt.comp.ardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Al Phillison wrote:

> Ray K <raykosXXX@optonline.net> wrote in news:mrDEd.53219$BR7.40807
> @fe08.lga:
>
>
>>I've built a new computer using an Aopen Cobra sound card.(Yes, it's
>>bottom of the line, but will serve temporarily.)
>
>
>
> I never understand why people buy a 50 horsepower car, understanding
> that it's 50 HP, and then go ask the mechanic why it won't put out
> 200 HP.
> You get what you pay for.

I wasn't expecting great things from it.

Since the gains are low for any of the analog inputs, the problem is
probably caused at a common stage of amplification. Typically, the gain
through an analog amplifier is set by a resistor. The cost of the
resistor doesn't depend on its value. So I can't blame it on the cheap
price of the card.

I'm not expecting the soundcard to drive speakers; but I do expect
enough gain to record full scale and play back at a decent level.

Actually, I had read in one other place that some standard changed a
couple of years ago as to what voltage level corresponds to max out. I
think it said only 1 volt is needed now, vs an old standard of 2. I was
trying to confirm this.

Thanks for the comment.

Ray
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 1:05:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article <mrDEd.53219$BR7.40807@fe08.lga> raykosXXX@optonline.net writes:
>
>
>>I've built a new computer using an Aopen Cobra sound card.(Yes, it's
>>bottom of the line, but will serve temporarily.) Its output is 6.67 dB
>>lower than calibrated signals I play from a test CD.
>
>
> How are you measuring that? With an number like 6.67 dB, I'm certain
> that you're doing some sort of digital test.

I have a test CD that has tones recorded at 0 dB and -10 dB. I play the
tone, then record it with Cool Edit Pro. CEP has an analysis funcion
that measures the average and total RMS power of a selection. It
reported -6.67 dB for the 0 dB input.

When I use CEP to record one of those loud disco FM stations, the peak
readings on the level meter are around -6 dB, not 0. That's with the
gain controls at max. With the old card, I have to set the record gain
at about 2/3 max to prevent clipping.

Plus, my ears tell me that the output is dramatically lower than with
the old card.
>
>
>>Also, line inputs
>>and audio signals from Winamp and Windows Media Player are too low
>>compared to my old Ensoniq PCI card.
>
>
> There is no standard input (or output) level that equates to digital
> full scale. You get what you get.
>
>
>>Any ideas what might be reducing the gain?
>
>
> The design of the card. If you've connected it properly, there's
> nothing you can do with it. Turn up the volume control on your
> speakers if you want to hear it play louder.

Doesn't solve the problem of not recording loud enough. The way things
are now, every time I record something, I then have to waste time
amplifying it to get the loudeness I need.

Thanks for the comments.

Ray
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 5:01:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

"Al Phillison" <pa@aussie.au> wrote in message
news:Xns95DB93D3170B2kd9sd7ahjs6fdikf@140.99.99.130...
> Ray K <raykosXXX@optonline.net> wrote in news:mrDEd.53219$BR7.40807
> @fe08.lga:
>
>> I've built a new computer using an Aopen Cobra sound card.(Yes, it's
>> bottom of the line, but will serve temporarily.)
>
>
> I never understand why people buy a 50 horsepower car, understanding
> that it's 50 HP, and then go ask the mechanic why it won't put out
> 200 HP.
> You get what you pay for.

So what is a 200 HP soundcard? I have a new PC with an intel 925XE MB
(intergrated sound) that does not have a sound input point for my TV tuner
card. I want to add a very good sound card so that I can have good quality
analog input for recording my LP's, plus an on board input for plugging in
the TV card.

I guess the AOpen Cobra is not the go, but what is?

Dave
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 5:01:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

"Hyperoglyphe" <hyperoglyphe@schlockmail.com> wrote in message
news:41e4bd7a$0$27268$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au
> "Al Phillison" <pa@aussie.au> wrote in message
> news:Xns95DB93D3170B2kd9sd7ahjs6fdikf@140.99.99.130...
>> Ray K <raykosXXX@optonline.net> wrote in news:mrDEd.53219$BR7.40807
>> @fe08.lga:
>>
>>> I've built a new computer using an Aopen Cobra sound card.(Yes, it's
>>> bottom of the line, but will serve temporarily.)
>>
>>
>> I never understand why people buy a 50 horsepower car, understanding
>> that it's 50 HP, and then go ask the mechanic why it won't put out
>> 200 HP.
>> You get what you pay for.
>
> So what is a 200 HP soundcard? I have a new PC with an intel 925XE MB
> (intergrated sound) that does not have a sound input point for my TV
> tuner card. I want to add a very good sound card so that I can have
> good quality analog input for recording my LP's, plus an on board
> input for plugging in the TV card.

> I guess the AOpen Cobra is not the go, but what is?

If you really want to do it right, and work flexibly with a lot of sources,
you'll probably route all of your sources including the analog output of
your TV tuner card to an outboard mixer, and then record the output of the
mixer with an audio interface that is designed for audio production.

Actually, the best TV tuner cards don't have analog outputs, but record
through their internal audio interfaces, such as the Diamond PVR 550. By
using an internal audio interface, you ensure that the video clock and the
audio clock stay in synch.

http://www.outpost.com/product/4293404

A good "starter" card might be the Echo Mia or the M-Audio Audiophile 24192.
A good small external mixer would be something like a Behringer MXB 1002.
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 5:01:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:01:31 +0800, "Hyperoglyphe"
<hyperoglyphe@schlockmail.com> wrote:

>So what is a 200 HP soundcard? I have a new PC with an intel 925XE MB
>(intergrated sound) that does not have a sound input point for my TV tuner
>card. I want to add a very good sound card so that I can have good quality
>analog input for recording my LP's, plus an on board input for plugging in
>the TV card.

Don't tuner cards link digitally these days? Like playing audio CDs
on your computer - that internal audio link cable is well obsolete
now.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 5:01:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <41e4bd7a$0$27268$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au> hyperoglyphe@schlockmail.com writes:

> So what is a 200 HP soundcard? I have a new PC with an intel 925XE MB
> (intergrated sound) that does not have a sound input point for my TV tuner
> card. I want to add a very good sound card so that I can have good quality
> analog input for recording my LP's, plus an on board input for plugging in
> the TV card.

Unfortunately, those two requirements don't go hand-in-hand. High
quality analog inputs points toward the class of "professional" sound
cards such as those made by Lynx or RME, or a reasonable step down
from M-Audio or Echo. A card with an internal input from another sound
source like your TV tuner card tends to fall into the "entertainment
multimedia" category. Those can (and some do) have civilized analog
inputs, adequate for recording LPs but not suitable for integrating
into a full capability music recording studio application.

I'd suggest that you look at a top-of-the-line SoundBlaster. Those are
safe, and you don't sound like the kind of person who, before
recording any music with it, would run a test program and complain
here that your measured noise level is only -104 dBu or something.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 5:01:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

Arny Krueger wrote:


> If you really want to do it right, and work flexibly with a lot of sources,
> you'll probably route all of your sources including the analog output of
> your TV tuner card to an outboard mixer, and then record the output of the
> mixer with an audio interface that is designed for audio production.
>
> Actually, the best TV tuner cards don't have analog outputs, but record
> through their internal audio interfaces, such as the Diamond PVR 550. By
> using an internal audio interface, you ensure that the video clock and the
> audio clock stay in synch.
>
> http://www.outpost.com/product/4293404
>
> A good "starter" card might be the Echo Mia or the M-Audio Audiophile 24192.
> A good small external mixer would be something like a Behringer MXB 1002.
>
Thanks for the leads, Arny, but too sophisticated and expensive for my
needs.

I do DJing, which involves processing each new song for loudness
thoughout its length as well as matching its loudness to my 2000+ song
library. I also set a certain amount of silence at the beginning and end
of each song. So highest fidelity and S/N are not the highest priority,
especially since after processing I convert them to MP3 (192k rate) for
playback via my laptop's sound card. (May seem horrible, but for the 60+
crowd I play for, they are perfectly content.)

My old Ensoniq PCI was just right. Unfortinately, I couldn't get it to
work with my new computer with W2K, even with all the SoundBlaster
updates, so I passed it along with my old W98 computer to a friend.

I thought I read that some standard regarding voltage levels at max
output was changed, such that the old 2-volt level was cut to 1-volt. I
was hoping to confirm that.

Ray
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 5:01:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:bg2au0l9qnhjv3oh1d4c9vupe57k2jf536@4ax.com
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:01:31 +0800, "Hyperoglyphe"
> <hyperoglyphe@schlockmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So what is a 200 HP soundcard? I have a new PC with an intel 925XE
>> MB (intergrated sound) that does not have a sound input point for my
>> TV tuner card. I want to add a very good sound card so that I can
>> have good quality analog input for recording my LP's, plus an on
>> board input for plugging in the TV card.
>
> Don't tuner cards link digitally these days? Like playing audio CDs
> on your computer - that internal audio link cable is well obsolete
> now.

Some do, some don't. You're right though - the internal digital link is the
way to go.
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 5:01:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

"Ray K" <raykosXXX@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:41E54089.9030008@optonline.net

> My old Ensoniq PCI was just right. Unfortinately, I couldn't get it to
> work with my new computer with W2K, even with all the SoundBlaster
> updates, so I passed it along with my old W98 computer to a friend.

Good move.

> I thought I read that some standard regarding voltage levels at max
> output was changed, such that the old 2-volt level was cut to 1-volt.

Actually, there never really was a 2 volt standard. It's just that up until
recently SoundBlaster consumer pack cards tended to have 2 volt max output,
while the OEM pack cards only put out 1 volt. I haven't gone through the
entire current CL line, but the new cards and USB interfaces that I've
checked have been 1 volt devices.

> I was hoping to confirm that.

AFAIK, roger.

BTW, using a cheap mixer, you can easily bring the 1 volt output voltage up
to just about anything reasonable.

Here's something that could work, and is even cheaper than the MXB 1006 is
($99):

http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--BEHUB802
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 7:59:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Wouldn't cobbling up a small amplifier in a little box be the simple
straightforward solution? I mean the solid state kind, not adding a
tube and transformers and a B+ supply. You know, a couple of
transistors, resistors, caps, or a decent op amp even(!). Nothing
tweako. It's for a goddamn deejay. He's playing MP3's.
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 10:38:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <41E53C9C.1030404@optonline.net> raykosXXX@optonline.net writes:

> Doesn't solve the problem of not recording loud enough. The way things
> are now, every time I record something, I then have to waste time
> amplifying it to get the loudeness I need.

Turn up the volume control on your playback system.

Then read any thread about "mastering" and you'll understand what goes
into making a recording as loud as it sounds. That will explain what
you're hearing as far as original recordings that you make, but when
transferring a commercial recording to your computer, the problem is
simply that your sound card doesn't have enough input gain to get a
full scale recording from your source.

Does your sound card have a switch (probably in the driver applet
rather than a physical switch) to select the nominal input level? It
might be marked "-10/+4" or something like that? If so, make sure it's
in the -10 position.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 12:43:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "Ray K" <raykosXXX@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:41E54089.9030008@optonline.net
>
>
>>My old Ensoniq PCI was just right. Unfortinately, I couldn't get it to
>>work with my new computer with W2K, even with all the SoundBlaster
>>updates, so I passed it along with my old W98 computer to a friend.
>
>
> Good move.
>
>
>>I thought I read that some standard regarding voltage levels at max
>>output was changed, such that the old 2-volt level was cut to 1-volt.
>
>
> Actually, there never really was a 2 volt standard. It's just that up until
> recently SoundBlaster consumer pack cards tended to have 2 volt max output,
> while the OEM pack cards only put out 1 volt. I haven't gone through the
> entire current CL line, but the new cards and USB interfaces that I've
> checked have been 1 volt devices.
>
>
>>I was hoping to confirm that.
>
>
> AFAIK, roger.
>
> BTW, using a cheap mixer, you can easily bring the 1 volt output voltage up
> to just about anything reasonable.
>
> Here's something that could work, and is even cheaper than the MXB 1006 is
> ($99):
>
> http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--BEHUB802
>
> That's quite a nice mixer. I should use it when DJing, instead of my
Radio Shack special.

Thanks for the info.

Ray
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 12:56:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:bsSdnZNnUo7emXjcRVn-2A@comcast.com...

>
> A good "starter" card might be the Echo Mia or the M-Audio Audiophile
> 24192. A good small external mixer would be something like a Behringer MXB
> 1002.
>

I'm new to this group and hope to learn as well as contribute here from what
little experience I have. I'm at Technical Director a TV station. I've
always had a passion for music and audio. Anyway, that's enough about me and
I'll move on to the topic of this thread.

I just purchased an M-Audio 24/192 for my desktop. I use to have a SB Live
card which I bought as a temp until I decided what card I was going to use.
The first thing I noticed was the significant increase in output level with
the 24/192. I now set my monitoring fader of my Mackie 1402 to about half of
where I normally have it with the SB Live card.

The 24/192 is smoother and richer sounding. It makes the SB Live sound like
the old cheaper CD players where the lows are too boomy, the highs are too
harsh and the midrange is thin. As far as recording goes, I still need to
experiment and play around before I can give it a fair assessment. I'm
pretty confident this card will suit my particular needs. I took a chance on
this card based on the specs without listening to it. So far I like what I
hear.

Stan
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 12:56:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Stan Fong" <skingfong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:lBrFd.10858$5R.1055@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:bsSdnZNnUo7emXjcRVn-2A@comcast.com...

>> A good "starter" card might be the Echo Mia or the M-Audio Audiophile
>> 24192. A good small external mixer would be something like a
>> Behringer MXB 1002.

> I'm new to this group and hope to learn as well as contribute here
> from what little experience I have. I'm at Technical Director a TV
> station. I've always had a passion for music and audio. Anyway,
> that's enough about me and I'll move on to the topic of this thread.

> I just purchased an M-Audio 24/192 for my desktop. I use to have a SB
> Live card which I bought as a temp until I decided what card I was
> going to use. The first thing I noticed was the significant increase
> in output level with the 24/192. I now set my monitoring fader of my
> Mackie 1402 to about half of where I normally have it with the SB
> Live card.

I can confirm all of your perceptions as follows:

That depends on the settings on the M-Audio control panel. The SB Live!
comes in a number of models which I will categorize as the OEM models and
the consumer pack models. The OEM models have 1 volt maximum output and the
consumer pack models have 2 volt maximum output voltage. In contrast M-Audio
Delta cards have up to three different output level settings. The highest of
them is called "+4" and ranges from about 3 to 6 volts depending on the
model. The lower ouptut voltage settings are called -10 and consumer and are
as low as 300 millivolts.

> The 24/192 is smoother and richer sounding. It makes the SB Live
> sound like the old cheaper CD players where the lows are too boomy,
> the highs are too harsh and the midrange is thin.

I suspect that the frequency response of the Audiophile 24/192 is almost
perfectly flat within 0.1 dB 20-20 KHz which is very fine.

Again, depending on which model of the SB Live! you have, there are some
fairly significant ups and downs in the frequency response curves. These
technical reports detail them:

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/live!/index.htm

That these variations can be heard in a proper level-matched, time-synched
blind test is demonstrated at:

http://www.pcabx.com/product/ct4830/index.htm

> As far as recording
> goes, I still need to experiment and play around before I can give it
> a fair assessment. I'm pretty confident this card will suit my
> particular needs. I took a chance on this card based on the specs
> without listening to it. So far I like what I hear.

Enjoy!
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 1:16:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1105533631k@trad...
>
> In article <41e4bd7a$0$27268$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
> hyperoglyphe@schlockmail.com writes:
>
>> So what is a 200 HP soundcard? I have a new PC with an intel 925XE MB
>> (intergrated sound) that does not have a sound input point for my TV
>> tuner
>> card. I want to add a very good sound card so that I can have good
>> quality
>> analog input for recording my LP's, plus an on board input for plugging
>> in
>> the TV card.
>
> Unfortunately, those two requirements don't go hand-in-hand. High
> quality analog inputs points toward the class of "professional" sound
> cards such as those made by Lynx or RME, or a reasonable step down
> from M-Audio or Echo. A card with an internal input from another sound
> source like your TV tuner card tends to fall into the "entertainment
> multimedia" category. Those can (and some do) have civilized analog
> inputs, adequate for recording LPs but not suitable for integrating
> into a full capability music recording studio application.
>
> I'd suggest that you look at a top-of-the-line SoundBlaster. Those are
> safe, and you don't sound like the kind of person who, before
> recording any music with it, would run a test program and complain
> here that your measured noise level is only -104 dBu or something.
>

That is a fair assessment of my needs. The Leadtek TV2000XP expert only has
a 4 pin analog out. I was a little surprised when the new Intel MB didn't
have an analog input on the board, like a lot of other sound cards.

I might go the Soundblaster route, but Arny Krueger's suggestion of routing
inputs through a mixer and out through a decent sound device looks good. A
lot of my old tapes will need some work, and I might have some fun along the
way.

I'll see some local suppliers (Perth, Australia) about your suggestions. I
tend to go a little overkill with IT purchases, but wouldn't go as far (say)
as a Lynx 2. I'll check out M Audio and Echo. Maybe even an Mbox with a
small mixer would suffice, with the advantage of Protools included and the
flexibility of a usb device for use with a notebook.

Thanks again
Dave
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 6:57:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Hyperoglyphe" <hyperoglyphe@schlockmail.com> wrote in message
news:41e5da57$0$19435$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
>[...]
> That is a fair assessment of my needs. The Leadtek TV2000XP expert only
> has a 4 pin analog out. I was a little surprised when the new Intel MB
> didn't have an analog input on the board, like a lot of other sound cards.
>
> I might go the Soundblaster route, but Arny Krueger's suggestion of
> routing inputs through a mixer and out through a decent sound device looks
> good. A lot of my old tapes will need some work, and I might have some
> fun along the way.

The chosen solution: a cheap Soundblaster card to satisfy the TV card input
problem plus an Mbox/protools for the home recording.

Dave
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 12:53:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:rc-dnV1OCNBZyHvcRVn-sQ@comcast.com...

>
> I can confirm all of your perceptions as follows:
>
> That depends on the settings on the M-Audio control panel. The SB Live!
> comes in a number of models which I will categorize as the OEM models and
> the consumer pack models. The OEM models have 1 volt maximum output and
> the consumer pack models have 2 volt maximum output voltage. In contrast
> M-Audio Delta cards have up to three different output level settings. The
> highest of them is called "+4" and ranges from about 3 to 6 volts
> depending on the model. The lower ouptut voltage settings are called -10
> and consumer and are as low as 300 millivolts.

I actually had the OEM model which confirms the low output I was getting.

>
>> The 24/192 is smoother and richer sounding. It makes the SB Live
>> sound like the old cheaper CD players where the lows are too boomy,
>> the highs are too harsh and the midrange is thin.
>
> I suspect that the frequency response of the Audiophile 24/192 is almost
> perfectly flat within 0.1 dB 20-20 KHz which is very fine.
>
> Again, depending on which model of the SB Live! you have, there are some
> fairly significant ups and downs in the frequency response curves. These
> technical reports detail them:

Yes. It made my monitors sound like a subwoofer with tiny satellite
speakers. That was another thing that bugged me about this card besides the
low output.


> http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/live!/index.htm
>
> That these variations can be heard in a proper level-matched, time-synched
> blind test is demonstrated at:
>
> http://www.pcabx.com/product/ct4830/index.htm


>> As far as recording
>> goes, I still need to experiment and play around before I can give it
>> a fair assessment. I'm pretty confident this card will suit my
>> particular needs. I took a chance on this card based on the specs
>> without listening to it. So far I like what I hear.
>
> Enjoy!

Thanks, I will.

Stan
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 4:40:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:21:45 -0500, Ray K <raykosXXX@optonline.net>
wrote:

>> A good "starter" card might be the Echo Mia or the M-Audio Audiophile 24192.
>> A good small external mixer would be something like a Behringer MXB 1002.
>>
>Thanks for the leads, Arny, but too sophisticated and expensive for my
>needs.

A mixer is an essential item for anyone doing more than the most
casual recording. The key to quality recordings is getting level
right. And the Audiophile 2496 is currently ludicrously cheap.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 4:42:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 06:04:48 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
wrote:

> M-Audio
>Delta cards have up to three different output level settings. The highest of
>them is called "+4" and ranges from about 3 to 6 volts depending on the
>model. The lower ouptut voltage settings are called -10 and consumer and are
>as low as 300 millivolts.

What's the third level? I seem to have missed it?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 4:42:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:t6tgu01cdai3a1ihrjpkfaq034jh1rsi5j@4ax.com
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 06:04:48 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
> wrote:
>
>> M-Audio
>> Delta cards have up to three different output level settings. The
>> highest of them is called "+4" and ranges from about 3 to 6 volts
>> depending on the model. The lower ouptut voltage settings are called
>> -10 and consumer and are as low as 300 millivolts.
>
> What's the third level? I seem to have missed it?

Three settings:

+4
-10
consumer
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 2:09:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <SsidndJft4N_43XcRVn-vA@comcast.com> arnyk@hotpop.com writes:

> >> M-Audio
> >> Delta cards have up to three different output level settings. The
> >> highest of them is called "+4" and ranges from about 3 to 6 volts
> >> depending on the model. The lower ouptut voltage settings are called
> >> -10 and consumer and are as low as 300 millivolts.

> Three settings:
>
> +4
> -10
> consumer

-10 dBV is 316 millivolts, so what's "consumer?" (or is "-10"
something other than -10 dBV?)



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 5:07:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:SsidndJft4N_43XcRVn-vA@comcast.com...
> "Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
> message news:t6tgu01cdai3a1ihrjpkfaq034jh1rsi5j@4ax.com
> > On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 06:04:48 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
> >> M-Audio
> >> Delta cards have up to three different output level settings. The
> >> highest of them is called "+4" and ranges from about 3 to 6 volts
> >> depending on the model. The lower ouptut voltage settings are called
> >> -10 and consumer and are as low as 300 millivolts.
> > What's the third level? I seem to have missed it?

> Three settings:
> +4
> -10
> consumer

No, the M-Audio cards have about 20 independent level settings for each
input and output.
There are 3 factory *PRESETS* labelled +4, -10, and consumer.

MrT.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 3:36:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:24:27 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
wrote:

>>> M-Audio
>>> Delta cards have up to three different output level settings. The
>>> highest of them is called "+4" and ranges from about 3 to 6 volts
>>> depending on the model. The lower ouptut voltage settings are called
>>> -10 and consumer and are as low as 300 millivolts.
>>
>> What's the third level? I seem to have missed it?
>
>Three settings:
>
>+4
>-10
>consumer

Oh, right. My Delta 1010 doesn't. So other Delta cards do?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 12:59:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1105788495k@trad
> In article <SsidndJft4N_43XcRVn-vA@comcast.com> arnyk@hotpop.com
> writes:
>
>>>> M-Audio
>>>> Delta cards have up to three different output level settings. The
>>>> highest of them is called "+4" and ranges from about 3 to 6 volts
>>>> depending on the model. The lower ouptut voltage settings are
>>>> called
>>>> -10 and consumer and are as low as 300 millivolts.
>
>> Three settings:
>>
>> +4
>> -10
>> consumer
>
> -10 dBV is 316 millivolts, so what's "consumer?" (or is "-10"
> something other than -10 dBV?)

IMO, Consumer should be 1-2 V FS.

http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/manuals/Delta1010LT-Ma...

puts it at -4 dBv (page 37). I believe there is still 10 dB headroom (page
9) , so FS is +6 dBv or 2 volts.
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 1:00:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:3ndju0tgvg25ori017kra4f723paua9oue@4ax.com
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:24:27 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>> M-Audio
>>>> Delta cards have up to three different output level settings. The
>>>> highest of them is called "+4" and ranges from about 3 to 6 volts
>>>> depending on the model. The lower ouptut voltage settings are
>>>> called
>>>> -10 and consumer and are as low as 300 millivolts.
>>>
>>> What's the third level? I seem to have missed it?
>>
>> Three settings:
>>
>> +4
>> -10
>> consumer
>
> Oh, right. My Delta 1010 doesn't. So other Delta cards do?

Yes, see http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/manuals/Delta1010LT-Ma... as
an example.
Anonymous
January 19, 2005 1:25:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:n-qdnVar9v8I5nHcRVn-sQ@comcast.com...
> puts it at -4 dBv (page 37). I believe there is still 10 dB headroom (page
> 9) , so FS is +6 dBv or 2 volts.

Not coincidently I would imagine, the same maximum output level as most
consumer CD players.

MrT.
Anonymous
January 19, 2005 1:25:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mr. T" <mrt@home> wrote in message
news:41ecf276$0$11097$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:n-qdnVar9v8I5nHcRVn-sQ@comcast.com...

>> puts it at -4 dBv (page 37). I believe there is still 10 dB headroom
>> (page 9) , so FS is +6 dBv or 2 volts.

> Not coincidently I would imagine, the same maximum output level as
> most consumer CD players.

Which would be why they call it "consumer". ;-)
Anonymous
January 19, 2005 8:10:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:Fe-dnfU-g6Tz7nDcRVn-rg@comcast.com...
> "Mr. T" <mrt@home> wrote in message
> news:41ecf276$0$11097$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au
> > "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> > news:n-qdnVar9v8I5nHcRVn-sQ@comcast.com...
>
> >> puts it at -4 dBv (page 37). I believe there is still 10 dB headroom
> >> (page 9) , so FS is +6 dBv or 2 volts.
>
> > Not coincidently I would imagine, the same maximum output level as
> > most consumer CD players.
>
> Which would be why they call it "consumer". ;-)

That's what I meant, but thanks for pointing it out :-)

Personally I've made my own presets instead. It's quite a versatile system.

MrT.
June 30, 2010 3:35:19 PM

Sorry for the newbie question but is more output voltage better then? I assume it is because I also assume it directly correlates with volume.
!