Where are all the science fiction-based RPGs?

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The only ones I remember ever seeing actually are the MegaTraveller
series and that old Buck Rogers SSI Gold box game.
 
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In article <8pd361ljuv8lt14gpnlq5jkgulpluqni6p@4ax.com>, blabbus@talk.com
says...

>The only ones I remember ever seeing actually are the MegaTraveller
>series and that old Buck Rogers SSI Gold box game.

You haven't beenvery observant over the years. Below is a list of all the SciFi
CRPGs I have.

2400 A.D.
Albion
Autoduel
Bad Blood
Buck Rogers Countdown To Doomsday
Buck Rogers Matrix Cubed
Elite
Fallout
Fallout 2
Fountain Of Dreams
Harbinger
Hard Nova
Martian Dreams
MegaTraveller I
MegaTraveller II
Mines Of Titan
Omnicron Conspiracy
Planet's Edge
Sentinel Worlds
Space 1889
Space Rogue
Spacewrecked
Star Command
Star Saga 2
Starflight
Starflight 2
Tegel's Mercenaries
Universe II
Visions Of Aftermath The Boomtown
Wasteland
Xiphos

--
Ken Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com
http://users.erols.com/kennrice - Lego Compatible Flex Track,
Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of Lego bricks
http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice
Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire,
Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others.
 

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On 2005-04-17, Ken Rice <no@email.ads> wrote:
> In article <8pd361ljuv8lt14gpnlq5jkgulpluqni6p@4ax.com>, blabbus@talk.com
> says...
>
>>The only ones I remember ever seeing actually are the MegaTraveller
>>series and that old Buck Rogers SSI Gold box game.
>
> You haven't beenvery observant over the years. Below is a list of all the SciFi
> CRPGs I have.

[snip]

> Fountain Of Dreams

From what I understand this was never really released and is very
unplayable because of its difficulty. Home of the Underdogs has
it up though.
 
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He forgot KOTOR 1 and 2.

Judging by the games he listed, it looks like the original poster
hasn't been out shopping for games since the mid-90s.
 
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> You haven't beenvery observant over the years. Below is a list of all the
SciFi
> CRPGs I have.

<snip-list>

Do the numerous Star Wars themed games count? Also, a couple of the Final
Fantasy games were set in high-tech futuristic worlds. (FF6 and FF7 at
least. I didn't play much after 7.)

(And wow, are you pulling some of those out of the old-games bin or what? I
didn't recognize all of them, but some of those games are over 10 years
old...)
 
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In article <1113759585.591519.137210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Alex Mars <alexmars@aol.com> wrote:
>He forgot KOTOR 1 and 2.
>
>Judging by the games he listed, it looks like the original poster
>hasn't been out shopping for games since the mid-90s.

He also left off Star Control 2, a game which many people consider the
spiritual sequel to Starflight/Starflight 2. (Star Control 3 is harder
to claim as an RPG.)

I also remember an old Apple 2 game called "Sundog" that might qualify.

Also (and leaving these off is a crime) System Shock and System Shock 2.
One could make a case for Deus Ex and Deus Ex 2 as well.

--
Kyle Haight
 
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>Gah!...has the definition of a RPG been corrupted/redefined or what?!
>Back in the day everyone would have called those games FPS without a
>second thought. Now anything with the most basic and simplistic
>stats/ability progression is called a RPG.

It's obvious you never played Deus Ex or the sequel. It is the
character interaction, choices, and "quests" in these games that make
them RPGs.
 
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:19:14 GMT, no@email.ads (Ken Rice) wrote:

>In article <8pd361ljuv8lt14gpnlq5jkgulpluqni6p@4ax.com>, blabbus@talk.com
>says...
>
>>The only ones I remember ever seeing actually are the MegaTraveller
>>series and that old Buck Rogers SSI Gold box game.
>
>You haven't beenvery observant over the years. Below is a list of all the SciFi
>CRPGs I have.
>
>2400 A.D.
>Albion
>Autoduel
>Bad Blood
>Buck Rogers Countdown To Doomsday
>Buck Rogers Matrix Cubed
>Elite
>Fallout
>Fallout 2
>Fountain Of Dreams
>Harbinger
>Hard Nova
>Martian Dreams
>MegaTraveller I
>MegaTraveller II
>Mines Of Titan
>Omnicron Conspiracy
>Planet's Edge
>Sentinel Worlds
>Space 1889
>Space Rogue
>Spacewrecked
>Star Command
>Star Saga 2
>Starflight
>Starflight 2
>Tegel's Mercenaries
>Universe II
>Visions Of Aftermath The Boomtown
>Wasteland
>Xiphos

I'm talking about science fiction RPGing in the classic sense of the
word. Most of the games you listed above are grouped into other
genres.

I don't consider Wasteland/Fallout a sci-fi RPG, its more a
post-nuclear RPG. I know, its being picky, but there's really little
that's sci-fi about Fallout.

Elite is a space exploration game as is the Starflight series.

Alot of the other ones you mentioned (With the exceptions of
MegaTraveller, Omicron and Buck Rogers) are unfamiliar to me so I
can't comment on them, but I'm ssure most fall into other genres.
 
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:14:40 -0400, "Darrel Hoffman" <i.dont@think.so>
wrote:

>> You haven't beenvery observant over the years. Below is a list of all the
>SciFi
>> CRPGs I have.
>
><snip-list>
>
>Do the numerous Star Wars themed games count? Also, a couple of the Final
>Fantasy games were set in high-tech futuristic worlds. (FF6 and FF7 at
>least. I didn't play much after 7.)
>
>(And wow, are you pulling some of those out of the old-games bin or what? I
>didn't recognize all of them, but some of those games are over 10 years
>old...)
>
Hence my query, "Where are all the science fiction-based RPGs?" :)
Seems they are a dying/dead breed.

But I suppose KOTOR 1 & 2 *could* be called sci-fi RPGs. Although I
don't consider anything 'Star Wars' as science fiction. It's more
fantasy with a space theme. Star Trek I do consider sci-fi however.
 
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On 17 Apr 2005 10:39:45 -0700, "Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> wrote:

>He forgot KOTOR 1 and 2.
>
>Judging by the games he listed, it looks like the original poster
>hasn't been out shopping for games since the mid-90s.

Ermm...I heard that. :) I suppose I did forget about KOTOR, but even
upon being reminded, I don't consider KOTOR 'real' science fiction as
I've said in another post.

And even if I would consider KOTOR sci-fi that's still only 2 sci-fi
RPGs to how many fantasy-based RPGs?
 
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:53:58 -0500, khaight@lefDELETEtistME.org (Kyle
Haight) wrote:


>He also left off Star Control 2, a game which many people consider the
>spiritual sequel to Starflight/Starflight 2. (Star Control 3 is harder
>to claim as an RPG.)

Star Control 2 wasn't a RPG at all. You could argue that Starflight
was a RPG as it did have various crewmembers with stats that you could
raise, but Star Control 2 was just about space exploration and ship
upgrading.

>I also remember an old Apple 2 game called "Sundog" that might qualify.

Was a dedicated C-64 user so that's flying right by me. :)

>Also (and leaving these off is a crime) System Shock and System Shock 2.
>One could make a case for Deus Ex and Deus Ex 2 as well.

Gah!...has the definition of a RPG been corrupted/redefined or what?!
Back in the day everyone would have called those games FPS without a
second thought. Now anything with the most basic and simplistic
stats/ability progression is called a RPG.

What's next, are we gonna start calling multiplayer FPS games
MMORPGs??
 
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Okay, I did forget Battlecruiser 3000. If you can call Starflight 1 &
2 sci-fi RPGs, then this might as well be thrown in as well.

Though it does have alot of space exploration features.

P.S. Final Fantasy isn't science fiction *AT ALL*. Where in science
fiction can magic apply? The second you mix sci-fi with magic it
defaults to fantasy. :-D
 
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Bitstring <1113759585.591519.137210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, from
the wonderful person Alex Mars <alexmars@aol.com> said
>He forgot KOTOR 1 and 2.
>
>Judging by the games he listed, it looks like the original poster
>hasn't been out shopping for games since the mid-90s.

Does Deus-Ex count?

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.
 
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:37:17 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
<GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:

>Bitstring <1113759585.591519.137210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, from
>the wonderful person Alex Mars <alexmars@aol.com> said
>>He forgot KOTOR 1 and 2.
>>
>>Judging by the games he listed, it looks like the original poster
>>hasn't been out shopping for games since the mid-90s.
>
>Does Deus-Ex count?

Deus Ex is a FPS! And so is System Shock 2. Although honestly
they're both kinda in the greyzone between genres.

Take away Morrowind's detailed character stats and quests and could it
still be called a RPG in the classic sense?
 
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:53:58 -0500, khaight@lefDELETEtistME.org (Kyle
Haight) wrote:

>In article <1113759585.591519.137210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>Alex Mars <alexmars@aol.com> wrote:
>>He forgot KOTOR 1 and 2.
>>
>>Judging by the games he listed, it looks like the original poster
>>hasn't been out shopping for games since the mid-90s.
[...]
>
>Also (and leaving these off is a crime) System Shock and System Shock 2.

System Shock is a pure FPS. The only thing different about it was the fact
that you had to decide which 7 or 8 weapons and the 20 special items you
wanted to carry. The other character development revolved around
packratting everything else

System Shock 2, on the other hand, involves an RPG style of character
development and thus qualifies for RPG status. There isn't any character
interaction, but this is generally overlooked.

>One could make a case for Deus Ex and Deus Ex 2 as well.

Both of these games do qualify as being an RPG, although DX2 is considered
a marginal case if you only look at gameplay.
 
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Blabbus Blabbibicus <blabbus@talk.com> writes:

> I'm talking about science fiction RPGing in the classic sense of the
> word.
[ ... ]
> I don't consider Wasteland/Fallout a sci-fi RPG, its more a
> post-nuclear RPG. I know, its being picky, but there's really little
> that's sci-fi about Fallout.

In the classical sense of the word, post-nuclear is definitely
sci-fi. You can't use a broad genre word to exclude its own
sub-genres... that's just wrong.

Please note, I tried to see your point on Trek versus Star Wars, but I
think you're totally off base here.

Nick

--
# sigmask (lambda deprecation version) 20041028 || feed this to a python
print ''.join([chr(ord(x)-1) for x in 'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=ojdlAwbshjti/psh?'])
 
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In message <qcr5611l3rkinrq2h7k483lcl8akk3cacm@4ax.com>, Blabbus
Blabbibicus <blabbus@talk.com> writes
>On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:19:14 GMT, no@email.ads (Ken Rice) wrote:
>
>>In article <8pd361ljuv8lt14gpnlq5jkgulpluqni6p@4ax.com>, blabbus@talk.com
>>says...
>>
>>>The only ones I remember ever seeing actually are the MegaTraveller
>>>series and that old Buck Rogers SSI Gold box game.
>>
>>You haven't beenvery observant over the years. Below is a list of all
>>the SciFi
>>CRPGs I have.
>>
>>2400 A.D.
>>Albion
>>Autoduel
>>Bad Blood
>>Buck Rogers Countdown To Doomsday
>>Buck Rogers Matrix Cubed
>>Elite
>>Fallout
>>Fallout 2
>>Fountain Of Dreams
>>Harbinger
>>Hard Nova
>>Martian Dreams
>>MegaTraveller I
>>MegaTraveller II
>>Mines Of Titan
>>Omnicron Conspiracy
>>Planet's Edge
>>Sentinel Worlds
>>Space 1889
>>Space Rogue
>>Spacewrecked
>>Star Command
>>Star Saga 2
>>Starflight
>>Starflight 2
>>Tegel's Mercenaries
>>Universe II
>>Visions Of Aftermath The Boomtown
>>Wasteland
>>Xiphos
>
>I'm talking about science fiction RPGing in the classic sense of the
>word. Most of the games you listed above are grouped into other
>genres.
>
>I don't consider Wasteland/Fallout a sci-fi RPG, its more a
>post-nuclear RPG. I know, its being picky, but there's really little
>that's sci-fi about Fallout.
>
>Elite is a space exploration game as is the Starflight series.
>
>Alot of the other ones you mentioned (With the exceptions of
>MegaTraveller, Omicron and Buck Rogers) are unfamiliar to me so I
>can't comment on them, but I'm ssure most fall into other genres.
>
>
Well if you are going to exclude such an obvious Sci-Fi RPG as Fallout,
then I'm sure you will come up with a very small number. Personally I
would add Eve to the above list, but no doubt you wouldn't.
--
John Secker
 
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In message <j3s56113hir6qn2fsb6isos17ch1t0r5oj@4ax.com>, Blabbus
Blabbibicus <blabbus@talk.com> writes
>On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:37:17 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
><GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Bitstring <1113759585.591519.137210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, from
>>the wonderful person Alex Mars <alexmars@aol.com> said
>>>He forgot KOTOR 1 and 2.
>>>
>>>Judging by the games he listed, it looks like the original poster
>>>hasn't been out shopping for games since the mid-90s.
>>
>>Does Deus-Ex count?
>
>Deus Ex is a FPS! And so is System Shock 2. Although honestly
>they're both kinda in the greyzone between genres.
>
>Take away Morrowind's detailed character stats and quests and could it
>still be called a RPG in the classic sense?
>
>
No, but what an odd question. If you took away the detailed character
stats and quests from Baldur's Gate, could it still be called an RPG in
the classic sense?
--
John Secker
 
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In message <gqs561128g8rjpi73n1s0kr08d62cmuc4k@4ax.com>, Blabbus
Blabbibicus <blabbus@talk.com> writes
>
>Okay, I did forget Battlecruiser 3000. If you can call Starflight 1 &
>2 sci-fi RPGs, then this might as well be thrown in as well.
>
>Though it does have alot of space exploration features.
>
So what? Why should that stop it being an RPG? You seem to have
astonishingly narrow definitions both of Sci-Fi and of the RPG genre.
>P.S. Final Fantasy isn't science fiction *AT ALL*. Where in science
>fiction can magic apply? The second you mix sci-fi with magic it
>defaults to fantasy. :-D
Have you never heard of Clarke's Law? What is the difference between
"magic" and sufficiently advanced technology?
--
John Secker
 
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In article <Mo2dneq5pP44C__fRVn-oQ@giganews.com>, i.dont@think.so says...

>> You haven't beenvery observant over the years. Below is a list of all the
>SciFi
>> CRPGs I have.

><snip-list>

>Do the numerous Star Wars themed games count? Also, a couple of the Final
>Fantasy games were set in high-tech futuristic worlds. (FF6 and FF7 at
>least. I didn't play much after 7.)

>(And wow, are you pulling some of those out of the old-games bin or what? I
>didn't recognize all of them, but some of those games are over 10 years
>old...)

Most of them I bought when they were new. I never throw out a game.

--
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http://users.erols.com/kennrice - Lego Compatible Flex Track,
Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of Lego bricks
http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice
Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire,
Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others.
 
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In article <1113759585.591519.137210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
alexmars@aol.com says...

>He forgot KOTOR 1 and 2.

>Judging by the games he listed, it looks like the original poster
>hasn't been out shopping for games since the mid-90s.

Oh come on now. The two Fallouts are 1998 and 1999 games. Harbinger came out in
2003.

However, most of my game purchases since the mid-90s have been fantasy CRPGs,
not SciFi games.

--
Ken Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com
http://users.erols.com/kennrice - Lego Compatible Flex Track,
Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of Lego bricks
http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice
Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire,
Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others.
 
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"Ken Rice" <no@email.ads> wrote in message
news:CIj8e.18131$H_5.9172@trnddc01...
> In article <8pd361ljuv8lt14gpnlq5jkgulpluqni6p@4ax.com>, blabbus@talk.com
> says...
>
>>The only ones I remember ever seeing actually are the MegaTraveller
>>series and that old Buck Rogers SSI Gold box game.
>
> You haven't beenvery observant over the years. Below is a list of all the
> SciFi
> CRPGs I have.
>
> 2400 A.D.
> Albion
> Autoduel
> Bad Blood
> Buck Rogers Countdown To Doomsday
> Buck Rogers Matrix Cubed
> Elite
> Fallout
> Fallout 2
> Fountain Of Dreams
> Harbinger
> Hard Nova
> Martian Dreams
> MegaTraveller I
> MegaTraveller II
> Mines Of Titan
> Omnicron Conspiracy
> Planet's Edge
> Sentinel Worlds
> Space 1889
> Space Rogue
> Spacewrecked
> Star Command
> Star Saga 2
> Starflight
> Starflight 2
> Tegel's Mercenaries
> Universe II
> Visions Of Aftermath The Boomtown
> Wasteland
> Xiphos
>
> --
> Ken Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com
> http://users.erols.com/kennrice - Lego Compatible Flex Track,
> Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of Lego bricks
> http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice
> Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire,
> Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others.
>
Aren't all the Might and Magic games Sci-Fi based? I seem to recall the
earlier ones were set in some kind of bio-sphere. Even the later ones had
sci-fi elements (plasma pistols and rifles, sunken spaceships, dragons as
alien invaders).
 
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"Blabbus Blabbibicus" <blabbus@talk.com> wrote in message
news:qes561hevacph904793r2mku716b429nbc@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:53:58 -0500, khaight@lefDELETEtistME.org (Kyle
> Haight) wrote:
>
> >Also (and leaving these off is a crime) System Shock and System Shock 2.
> >One could make a case for Deus Ex and Deus Ex 2 as well.
>
> Gah!...has the definition of a RPG been corrupted/redefined or what?!
> Back in the day everyone would have called those games FPS without a
> second thought. Now anything with the most basic and simplistic
> stats/ability progression is called a RPG.
>
> What's next, are we gonna start calling multiplayer FPS games
> MMORPGs??

Back in the day? System Shock was released about a year after the original
Doom - the only FPS around at that time were Doom and its clones. Okay, SS was
first-person, and you shot things, but relegating it to 'FPS' is just wrong. Are
you discounting it just because it doesn't have stats?

Rich
 
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 00:58:18 +0100, John Secker
<john@secker.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <gqs561128g8rjpi73n1s0kr08d62cmuc4k@4ax.com>, Blabbus
>Blabbibicus <blabbus@talk.com> writes
>>
>>Okay, I did forget Battlecruiser 3000. If you can call Starflight 1 &
>>2 sci-fi RPGs, then this might as well be thrown in as well.
>>
>>Though it does have alot of space exploration features.
>>
>So what? Why should that stop it being an RPG? You seem to have
>astonishingly narrow definitions both of Sci-Fi and of the RPG genre.

A definition is a definition. To sway something that's meant to be a
precise description of a certain category to fit it to another
category by including or detracting other points of that definition
changes its meaning.

'Role-playing', is a extremely general descrtiptive term. When I say
RPG, I'm pretty sure (If you've been playing computer games for more
than a few years) you know what I mean, esp. in this newsgroup.

You however seem to have an incredibly dense and unfocused view of
what a RPG is IMO. Of couse, you could just be trolling. In either
case I don't feel like entering a debate with *you* about what *you*
think constitutes a true and proper RPG.

>>P.S. Final Fantasy isn't science fiction *AT ALL*. Where in science
>>fiction can magic apply? The second you mix sci-fi with magic it
>>defaults to fantasy. :-D
>Have you never heard of Clarke's Law? What is the difference between
>"magic" and sufficiently advanced technology?

Bleh, I'm not going to get into a debate with you on the definitions
of magic as commonly accepted in role-playing games either. I know
what I mean, everyone who reads my post knows what I mean and I'm
pretty sure *you* know what I mean.

So long!