SOE/Everquest 2 goes Ebay Wannabe

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As we all know if WoW ever legitimized in game Real Life cash trading by
giving the proper tools on Blizzards site to do so... the EQ2 Fanboys would
be in an uproar.

http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=John%20Smedley%20Discusses%20Station%20Exchange

Hello Everyone,

We have a big announcement coming out in the press in the next day, and I
wanted to make sure you heard it from me directly rather than reading an
article about it.

Starting in late June, SOE will begin offering a new service called Station
Exchange. This secure service will allow EverQuest II players on specific
servers to buy and sell the right to use items, coin and characters. To be
clear, all we are doing is facilitating these transactions. We are NOT in
the business of selling virtual goods ourselves.

I'm sure this is going to come as a shock to many of you, since for the past
six years, we have held the line in not allowing these sorts of things to
occur. I'd like to explain the primary drivers for this change from our
perspective:

First: It's obvious that a large percentage of our players either don't mind
this activity or actively participate in it. We've done a fair amount of
homework on this subject, and we believe this is a $200 million dollar
market worldwide, and there are a huge number of our players taking part in
the buying and selling of virtual goods. We have conducted polls, and the
vast majority of players either doesn't care about it or would like to
participate in it. We believe that by allowing this to happen on select
servers, we can have a solution for both the many players who want to
participate in this and for those who don't.

Second: Dealing with fraudulent transactions of one type or another takes up
roughly 40% of our customer service people's time. We have players calling
us up or requesting in-game service for activities related to these sorts of
transactions constantly, even though they are specifically disallowed by our
EULA. You may ask why the percentage is that high when it's not allowed in
the first place? The answer is simple. Many times, people in these
situations aren't up front with us about what actually happened. "My sword
disappeared from my inventory" comes to mind, when what actually happened is
the player has sold the item to someone else. O ur CS people have to take
the time to investigate this claim because if something legitimately
happened, we of course want to take care of the player's needs. We believe
that by taking this course, we will free up a great number of resources to
deal with other things for our players.

Third: We see this as a potentially interesting model for future games. If
we came up with a game specifically designed around these sorts of
transactions, it might be pretty cool. Online gaming is always evolving, and
we're going to see how a sanctioned exchange service shakes out in EQII.
From our perspective, it's always wise to keep pushing the envelope.

With the big reasons we're doing this laid out, I'd like to now tell you
about the process:

On Wednesday, you'll see some press about Station Exchange. After about a
week, we will conduct an in-game poll that's going to ask whether you:

1) Want to play on an "Exchange enabled" server
2) Do not want to play on an "Exchange enabled" server
3) Don't really care

Based on the results of this poll, we will light up a certain amount of new
servers that are specifically "Exchange enabled." If the percentage of
players who want this service is high enough, we might consider converting
some existing servers to "Exchange enabled." Players who want to play on
those servers will have the opportunity to transfer over to the "Exchange
enabled" servers for free on a one-time-only basis (but you can't ever move
that character off these servers). We will, of course, let people who don't
want to stay on an "Exchange enabled" server off with a free transfer.

I want to be clear here: We will be lighting up a few new servers that are
specifically "Exchange enabled," and the number of existing servers we
convert to "Exchange enabled" will be based on how many people actually want
to be on "Exchange enabled" servers.

In addition to the issues listed above, you may ask, "What about farming?"
The simple answer to this is that we're going to continue to heavily enforce
the rules of EQ II, and those rules don't permit players to monopolize
spawns or in any way harm the play experience of another player. We will
continue to enforce these rules, but we also think that by providing a
legitimate way for players to buy and sell the use of virtual goods, there
will be fewer problems on the non-Exchange servers.

I realize this is a lot to think about, and I expect a pretty good debate to
start on this subject. We welcome all your feedback, as it will help
determine the future of this service. All I ask is that you consider the
fact that we're really addressing this problem in the best possible way for
all sides of this issue.


John Smedley
President, Sony Online Entertainment
 
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Hmm... just changing a few words ...
---
Hello Everyone,


We have a big announcement coming out in the press in the next day, and
I
wanted to make sure you heard it from me directly rather than reading
an
article about it.


Starting in late June, the US Government will begin offering a new
service called Dealers
Exchange. This secure service will allow US citizens on specific
states to buy and sell the right to use guns, drugs and whores. To be
clear, all we are doing is facilitating these transactions. We are NOT
in
the business of selling these goods ourselves.


I'm sure this is going to come as a shock to many of you, since for the
past
hundreds of years, we have held the line in not allowing these sorts of
things to
occur. I'd like to explain the primary drivers for this change from our

perspective:


First: It's obvious that a large percentage of our citizens either
don't mind
this activity or actively participate in it. We've done a fair amount
of
homework on this subject, and we believe this is a $200 megatrillion
dollar
market worldwide, and there are a huge number of our citizens taking
part in
the buying and selling of these goods. We have conducted polls, and the

vast majority of citizens either doesn't care about it or would like to

participate in it. We believe that by allowing this to happen on select

states, we can have a solution for both the many citizens who want to
participate in this and for those who don't.


Second: Dealing with fraudulent transactions of one type or another
takes up
roughly 40% of our law enforcement people's time. We have citizens
calling
us up or requesting law enforcement service for activities related to
these sorts of
transactions constantly, even though they are specifically disallowed
by our
laws. You may ask why the percentage is that high when it's not allowed
in
the first place? The answer is simple. Many times, people in these
situations aren't up front with us about what actually happened. "My
marijuana
disappeared from my cabinet" comes to mind, when what actually happened
is
the citizen has sold the drug to someone else. Our law enforcement
people have to take
the time to investigate this claim because if something legitimately
happened, we of course want to take care of the citizen's needs. We
believe
that by taking this course, we will free up a great number of resources
to
deal with other things for our citizens.


Third: We see this as a potentially interesting model for other
countries. If
we invade a country and set laws specifically designed around these
sorts of
transactions, it might be pretty cool. Life is always evolving, and
we're going to see how a sanctioned exchange service shakes out in the
US.
>From our perspective, it's always wise to keep pushing the envelope.


With the big reasons we're doing this laid out, I'd like to now tell
you
about the process:


On January, you'll see some press about Dealers Exchange. After about a

week, we will conduct an in-game poll that's going to ask whether you:


1) Want to move to a "Exchange enabled" state
2) Do not want to move to a "Exchange enabled" state
3) Don't really care


Based on the results of this poll, we will light up a certain amount of
new
states that are specifically "Exchange enabled." If the percentage of
citizens who want this service is high enough, we might consider
converting
some existing states to "Exchange enabled." Citizens who want to live
on
those states will have the opportunity to move over to the "Exchange
enabled" states for free on a one-time-only basis (but you can't ever
move
off these states). We will, of course, let people who don't
want to stay on an "Exchange enabled" state off with a free move.


I want to be clear here: We will be lighting up a few new states that
are
specifically "Exchange enabled," and the number of existing states we
convert to "Exchange enabled" will be based on how many people actually
want
to live in "Exchange enabled" states .


In addition to the issues listed above, you may ask, "What about
farming?"
The simple answer to this is that we're going to continue to heavily
enforce
the laws of US, and those rules don't permit players to monopolize
marijuana or in any way harm the citizen experience of another citizen.
We will
continue to enforce these rules, but we also think that by providing a
legitimate way for citizens to buy and sell the use of drugs, there
will be fewer problems on the non-Exchange states.


I realize this is a lot to think about, and I expect a pretty good
debate to
start on this subject. We welcome all your feedback, as it will help
determine the future of these laws. All I ask is that you consider the
fact that we're really addressing this problem in the best possible way
for
all sides of this issue.


George W. Bush
President, United States of America
 
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On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:20:40 -0500, "Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.com> wrote:

<snip>

Are they talking about trading pirely ingame, ie, weapons for gold, or
items for real life cash ?

--

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
 
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"Mark Morrison" <drdpikeuk@aol.com> wrote in message
news:191d61poo75p52fl3a7jp11crjaqotnr41@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:20:40 -0500, "Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Are they talking about trading pirely ingame, ie, weapons for gold, or
> items for real life cash ?
>

Virtual items for RL cash. It sounds like SoE would do this service without a charge to help save
money on their CS side.
 
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Mark Morrison wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:20:40 -0500, "Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Are they talking about trading pirely ingame, ie, weapons for gold, or
> items for real life cash ?
>

Real cash, fake items.

Right now, this EBay trading of goods is causing them headaches. If they
do this, they get another profit center AND get rid of headaches. Not a
bad deal.

One is always free to buy/sell characters the old way. All this does is
make a widespread practice legit. I can't say that I'm happy with it,
but I could also see it coming.

CH
 

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On 2005-04-20, Mark Morrison <drdpikeuk@aol.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:20:40 -0500, "Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
> Are they talking about trading pirely ingame, ie, weapons for gold, or
> items for real life cash ?

Yes on specific servers. It's not as bad as it sounds. If you
don't want to engage in this just don't go to the servers with
this feature on them.
 
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"James_" <_no_@spam.com> wrote in message
news:E5udnVWjt4xKPvvfRVn-oQ@midco.net...
> "Mark Morrison" <drdpikeuk@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:191d61poo75p52fl3a7jp11crjaqotnr41@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:20:40 -0500, "Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Are they talking about trading pirely ingame, ie, weapons for gold, or
>> items for real life cash ?
>>
>
> Virtual items for RL cash. It sounds like SoE would do this service
> without a charge to help save money on their CS side.

It's real life cash for items. They will be requesting a service charge aka
listing fee to put up a sale You actually think SOE is gonna do this for
free?

http://stationexchange.station.sony.com/
For the duration of the auction, the item or character cannot be accessed by
the listing party. The "seller" will be able to list the item or character
on the Station Exchange website, and will be charged a nominal listing fee.
 

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On 2005-04-20, Clawhound <none@nowhere.com> wrote:

> One is always free to buy/sell characters the old way. All this does is
> make a widespread practice legit. I can't say that I'm happy with it,
> but I could also see it coming.

Folks it's no different than joining a PvP server or an RP
server. They're adding servers where you can buy/sell with real
money.
 
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"Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.com> wrote in message news:SOWdnV4Aw-crNfvfRVn-sw@comcast.com...
>
> "James_" <_no_@spam.com> wrote in message news:E5udnVWjt4xKPvvfRVn-oQ@midco.net...
>> "Mark Morrison" <drdpikeuk@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:191d61poo75p52fl3a7jp11crjaqotnr41@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:20:40 -0500, "Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Are they talking about trading pirely ingame, ie, weapons for gold, or
>>> items for real life cash ?
>>>
>>
>> Virtual items for RL cash. It sounds like SoE would do this service without a charge to help save
>> money on their CS side.
>
> It's real life cash for items. They will be requesting a service charge aka listing fee to put up
> a sale You actually think SOE is gonna do this for free?
>

Good point, I forgot this is SoE lol
 
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shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in
news:slrnd6dbqt.2763.shadows@helena.whitefang.com:

> On 2005-04-20, Clawhound <none@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> One is always free to buy/sell characters the old way. All this does is
>> make a widespread practice legit. I can't say that I'm happy with it,
>> but I could also see it coming.
>
> Folks it's no different than joining a PvP server or an RP
> server. They're adding servers where you can buy/sell with real
> money.

You think that it would be clear enough where he says (paraphrased by me):
*****
Depending on how many people are interested, we may (will) make a couple of
existing servers have this feature.

If you want on those servers, you get to move to them for free, but your
character will never be transferred off those servers.

If you want off those servers, we will do it for you for free.
*****

--
Marcel
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
 
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On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:47:51 -0600, "James_" <_no_@spam.com> wrote:

>"Mark Morrison" <drdpikeuk@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:191d61poo75p52fl3a7jp11crjaqotnr41@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:20:40 -0500, "Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Are they talking about trading pirely ingame, ie, weapons for gold, or
>> items for real life cash ?
>>
>
>Virtual items for RL cash. It sounds like SoE would do this service without a charge to help save
>money on their CS side.
>
Maybe - if they can find a way to make some cash, they will.

I know 'they're a business' but they act like their game is free to
play and they need to screw every last penny out of their players.

--

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
 

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On 2005-04-20, Mark Morrison <drdpikeuk@aol.com> wrote:

> Maybe - if they can find a way to make some cash, they will.

Absolutely. A business is all about increasing revenue and
lowering cost. That's how a profit is made. Without this greed
you'd probably be playing one game a year that your government
would make for you.

> I know 'they're a business' but they act like their game is free to
> play and they need to screw every last penny out of their players.

Not really. They gave their justification. Lower customer support
costs with some revenue for them and higher customer
satisfaction. It's not intuitive to you that it's _good_ for EQ2
because buying/selling virtual characters and items is inherently
evil to you.
 
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shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote:
: Yes on specific servers. It's not as bad as it sounds. If you
: don't want to engage in this just don't go to the servers with
: this feature on them.

And where pray tell do you think the hordes of IGE plat farmers going to
move to? Not the sactioned servers.

K
 

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On 2005-04-20, Hippie Ramone <kdeacon@scrye.com> wrote:
> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote:
>: Yes on specific servers. It's not as bad as it sounds. If you
>: don't want to engage in this just don't go to the servers with
>: this feature on them.
>
> And where pray tell do you think the hordes of IGE plat farmers going to
> move to? Not the sactioned servers.

How much do you know about IGE. Here are some facts:

People who sell to IGE do so because they don't want the risk of
having to sell to players directly. The risk is two-fold. You
could lose your account if someone tells SOE, or your customer
can claim the charge on his credit card is false leaving you with
nothing. Good luck proving you sold 100 gold pieces to someone
on an MMO to a credit card company.

If these farmers sell directly to IGE they lose 70-80% of what
they'd make if they sold directly to other players.

Selling _on_ IGE or Ebay through auctions is now moot. People who
stayed on the non sanctioned servers did so because in all
likelyhood they want no part of it. Those aren't going to be your
best customers.
 
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the EQ2 Fanboys would
> be in an uproar.


not really, because we are still playing the better game
 
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Mark Morrison <drdpikeuk@aol.com> writes:

> I know 'they're a business' but they act like their game is free to
> play and they need to screw every last penny out of their players.

No, they just want the cut that normally goes to eBay for themselves.
 
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You will continue to see SOE become more and more weird as they look for
ways to rocover from the lower than expected profits generated by their
bullshit product EQ2. I don't play WoW anymore, haven't for at least 3
months, so can the fanboi labels.
 

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Thus spake Tor Iver Wilhelmsen <tor.iver.wilhelmsen@broadpark.no>, 21 Apr
2005 09:24:16 +0200, Anno Domini:

>Mark Morrison <drdpikeuk@aol.com> writes:
>
>> I know 'they're a business' but they act like their game is free to
>> play and they need to screw every last penny out of their players.
>
>No, they just want the cut that normally goes to eBay for themselves.

How dare they - the gall!!!

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Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> writes:

> How dare they - the gall!!!

It's not that, it's that they now in effect throws away the EULA
section outlawing that practice, and open themselves up to lawsuits,
since they are saying virtual items in the game (which they
conveniently are the producers of) has real-world monetary value.

Bah, SOE deserve to go down in a blaze of whatever.
 

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On 2005-04-21, Tor Iver Wilhelmsen <tor.iver.wilhelmsen@broadpark.no> wrote:
> Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> writes:
>
>> How dare they - the gall!!!
>
> It's not that, it's that they now in effect throws away the EULA
> section outlawing that practice, and open themselves up to lawsuits,
> since they are saying virtual items in the game (which they
> conveniently are the producers of) has real-world monetary value.

How is that? The EULA remains in effect. They're making an
exception on "sanctioned" servers. They may very well still claim
ownership of all in-game virtual property and just provide an
escrow service to move said items between characters.

This is the same "service" IGE provided by claiming only to
"transfer" items to people.

At least now farmers and buyers don't have to worry about fraud.
 
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Tor Iver Wilhelmsen <tor.iver.wilhelmsen@broadpark.no> wrote in
news:usm1krzb3.fsf@broadpark.no:

> It's not that, it's that they now in effect throws away the EULA
> section outlawing that practice, and open themselves up to lawsuits,
> since they are saying virtual items in the game (which they
> conveniently are the producers of) has real-world monetary value.

Hey, all they have to do is rewrite the EULA to say that the only
authorized method for purchase/sale of the temporary license to use these
virtual items is through the use of Sony Exchange.

--
Marcel
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
 

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Thus spake Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaudoin@scintrextrace.com>, 20 Apr 2005
19:42:49 GMT, Anno Domini:

>If you want on those servers, you get to move to them for free, but your
>character will never be transferred off those servers.
>
>If you want off those servers, we will do it for you for free.
>*****

Don't those last 2 paras kinda contradict themselves...errr...?

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On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:31:37 +1000, Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au>
wrote:

>Thus spake Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaudoin@scintrextrace.com>, 20 Apr 2005
>19:42:49 GMT, Anno Domini:
>
>>If you want on those servers, you get to move to them for free, but your
>>character will never be transferred off those servers.
>>
>>If you want off those servers, we will do it for you for free.
>>*****
>
>Don't those last 2 paras kinda contradict themselves...errr...?

Nope, I think it means that people who are _already_ there, before the
servers were chosen as 'commercial'(or whatever they're calling it) get
one free chance to run away, while people who choose to move to the
commercial servers go for free, but are stuck there for ever after.
 

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Thus spake Greg Johnson <greg.gsj@gmail.com>, Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:35:14
+1000, Anno Domini:

>On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:31:37 +1000, Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au>
>wrote:
>
>>Thus spake Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaudoin@scintrextrace.com>, 20 Apr 2005
>>19:42:49 GMT, Anno Domini:
>>
>>>If you want on those servers, you get to move to them for free, but your
>>>character will never be transferred off those servers.
>>>
>>>If you want off those servers, we will do it for you for free.
>>>*****
>>
>>Don't those last 2 paras kinda contradict themselves...errr...?
>
>Nope, I think it means that people who are _already_ there, before the
>servers were chosen as 'commercial'(or whatever they're calling it) get
>one free chance to run away, while people who choose to move to the
>commercial servers go for free, but are stuck there for ever after.

Aha! See, formal logic isn't always so obvious ;-)

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Thus spake Tor Iver Wilhelmsen <tor.iver.wilhelmsen@broadpark.no>, 21 Apr
2005 16:15:28 +0200, Anno Domini:

>Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> writes:
>
>> How dare they - the gall!!!
>
>It's not that, it's that they now in effect throws away the EULA
>section outlawing that practice, and open themselves up to lawsuits,
>since they are saying virtual items in the game (which they
>conveniently are the producers of) has real-world monetary value.

The EULA is theirs & if you look closely at it I bet there's a section
somewhere saying they can vary it at any time. So, I suggest you read it top
to bottom every time you log on if you aren't going to trust them one iota.

>Bah, SOE deserve to go down in a blaze of whatever.

I'm *really* liking the game & the forums & services so far. No lag, no
crashes, no dramas whatsoever. Take that & stick it in your WoW hat! ;-p

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