OK Will, I have a weblog

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http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/2005/01/12.html

And if you look I think you'll find that you have tons more posts on OT
subject that I ever did. But regardless, you have won on the newsgroup, and
I have won because I can now say anything I want to say and it doesn't make
any difference whether you pay attention or not. But you'd better because
you never know when I'll lay out a Karl Rove type of smear campaign against
you! <g>

Don't worry Will. I'd never do that. But if you come onboard and answer
then I think it's free reign on riding you to the ground dude.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

 

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Roger W. Norman wrote:
> http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/2005/01/12.html
>
> And if you look I think you'll find that you have tons more posts on
OT
> subject that I ever did. But regardless, you have won on the
newsgroup, and
> I have won because I can now say anything I want to say and it
doesn't make
> any difference whether you pay attention or not. But you'd better
because
> you never know when I'll lay out a Karl Rove type of smear campaign
against
> you! <g>
>
> Don't worry Will. I'd never do that. But if you come onboard and
answer
> then I think it's free reign on riding you to the ground dude.

Thank you Roger. I have a couple albums to do, so I haven't the
time to counter all the roving gangs of your sympathizers here or on
your new "blog" really. But I am sure they are gonna love having a
place where they can all share their warm and fuzzy feelings about
Micheal Moore, Al Franken, and your new best pal Pat Buchanan... <g>

But as for "Karl Rove kind of smear campaigns", Roger I am not at
all engaging in creative writing when I criticize you and other's for
claiming that Iraqi's and Middle Eastern/Islamic people are incapable
of self rule due to their culture and history - or race. Using that
view as a basis for opposing America's foreign policy of working for
free and fair elections in Iraq is to use the same argument that was
made for withholding from African slaves the very freedoms and rights
the Constitution guarantees to you and me. Were not many of the
African tribes slavers stole slaves from far from being "Democratic?"
Those of you on the political left who make such claims really need to
do a bit of self examination on that rationale. It is an indefensible
position, particularly for liberals.

And while some might claim this is a "nature vs. nuture" argument,
the fact is that in America we have already decided - as a matter of
law, philosophy and history - that the human rights we enjoy here are
the inborn rights of man, not rights granted by a Partiarchal State.
We have human rights - and responsibilities - because we are all
Children of the same Creator, and *that* inborn "Nature" supercedes all
cultural and family background issues. So whether nature supercedes
nurture or not, the American philosophy is everyone deserves the same
human rights, and the right to vote is certainly one of the most basic
in that regard.

Anyway good luck with your blog. Maybe you'll even find some
sponsors (is Air America totally dead yet?) Hopefully we can overcome
the momentum to try to politicize RAP, Tsunami's and every damn thing
is American life, which really does little to help anyone or change
anything meaningfully I think.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

 

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On 12 Jan 2005 12:06:15 -0800, "WillStG" <willstg@aol.com> wrote:

>America's foreign policy of working for
>free and fair elections in Iraq

You *are* on crack. Hey Will, where are the WDMs?

 

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play on wrote:
> On 12 Jan 2005 12:06:15 -0800, "WillStG" <willstg@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >America's foreign policy of working for
> >free and fair elections in Iraq
>
> You *are* on crack. Hey Will, where are the WDMs?

Your lack of a coherent rationale for your position is noted.

As for WMD, Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-CT) made the following points
about the Dueffler report today.

1. The report says that not finding WMD does not mean Saddam did not
have them. For we did not find much that has been concretely
documented that he had, and because there were convoys of trucks moving
between Syria and Iraq in the weeks leading up to the War that could
well have been moving them out of Country.

(To recognize this, rather than plays politics with it I think, is
only to be intellectually honest.)

2. The report says there is clear evidence that Saddam's plan was to
eliminate the sanctions against Iraq, and that he had substantial plans
at that point to ramp up his Nuclear/Biological/Chemical Weapons
programs.

And that this plan was working is inarguable, as evidenced by the
$23 Billion Saddam skimmmed off the UN "Oil For Food" program.
Corruption is seen as normal by many UN Officials and bribery was
considered business as usual, even for some European politicians who
Saddam had on the take.

So before you bitch another 40 times hee about Enron, or about
Halliburton, be sure you also bitch a few hundred times about what is
the largest scam and financial scandal in human history, the UN Oil For
Food Program.

You know, try to be "fair" and "balanced" Al.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

 

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On 12 Jan 2005 14:26:48 -0800, "WillStG" <willstg@aol.com> wrote:

>
>play on wrote:
>> On 12 Jan 2005 12:06:15 -0800, "WillStG" <willstg@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> >America's foreign policy of working for
>> >free and fair elections in Iraq
>>
>> You *are* on crack. Hey Will, where are the WDMs?
>
>Your lack of a coherent rationale for your position is noted.

*My* "coherent rationale"??? The WMDs were *your* (and Bush's)
rationale for thousands and thousands of deaths and injuries resulting
from the invasion of Iraq. Then when they didn't find WMDs, then the
rationale was switched to "freedom is on the march". Unfortunately
for the Iraqis, it has marched their country into deadly, violent
anarchy.

>
>As for WMD, Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-CT) made the following points
>about the Dueffler report today.
>
>1. The report says that not finding WMD does not mean Saddam did not
>have them.

And the fact that we cannot prove you didn't rape that little girl
doesn't mean that you didn't... guilty until proven innocent, right?
It's the American way... NOT.

For we did not find much that has been concretely
>documented that he had, and because there were convoys of trucks moving
>between Syria and Iraq in the weeks leading up to the War that could
>well have been moving them out of Country.
>
>(To recognize this, rather than plays politics with it I think, is
>only to be intellectually honest.)

It's not "playing politics" to demand verification and proof, dude.
Especially when it results in the destruction and death we have seen
in Iraq. I submit it is you and your brain-washers who are "playing
politics" with people's lives.

>
>2. The report says there is clear evidence that Saddam's plan was to
>eliminate the sanctions against Iraq, and that he had substantial plans
>at that point to ramp up his Nuclear/Biological/Chemical Weapons
>programs.

Yeah, he had plans... so what. North Korea has plans, Pakistan has
plans, the Chechens have plans. The facts indicate that Saddam was
incapable of carrying out any of his so-called "plans", which were
more like fantasies, given the state of things in Iraq after the first
Gulf War.

>And that this plan was working is inarguable, as evidenced by the
>$23 Billion Saddam skimmmed off the UN "Oil For Food" program.
>Corruption is seen as normal by many UN Officials and bribery was
>considered business as usual, even for some European politicians who
>Saddam had on the take.

>So before you bitch another 40 times hee about Enron, or about
>Halliburton, be sure you also bitch a few hundred times about what is
>the largest scam and financial scandal in human history, the UN Oil For
>Food Program.

Yes, corruption knows no boundaries... however since I am an American
citizen, I can bitch all I want about American corporations that get
favored treatment from our corrupt American leadership. Whatever
happened at the UN, I have no voting input there.

>You know, try to be "fair" and "balanced" Al.

Right...


Milton Dailey

 

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WillStG wrote:


> So before you bitch another 40 times hee about Enron, or about
> Halliburton, be sure you also bitch a few hundred times about what is
> the largest scam and financial scandal in human history, the UN Oil For
> Food Program.
>
> You know, try to be "fair" and "balanced" Al.



How about if we ALL start bitching about ALL of them?

 

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WillStG wrote:

> But as for "Karl Rove kind of smear campaigns", Roger I am not at
> all engaging in creative writing when I criticize you and other's for
> claiming that Iraqi's and Middle Eastern/Islamic people are incapable
> of self rule due to their culture and history - or race.

You are the only one saying that. No one has made that
claim that you so regularly attack. Are straw men of your
creation the only ones you can dice with?

The claim is that they don't _want_ what Rove does and what
you do in your sycophancy. We've made damn sure now that
they will never want anything that we might think is a good
idea because all they need do is consider the source to know
that its wrong and not at all in their best interest.

Our world and theirs has been possibly forever torn assunder
by the nightmare we're puting them through, and I don't mean
just the Iraqis. That is a terrible shame and a terrible
loss. Our biggest losses, I fear, are yet to come and it
didn't have to be that way.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

 

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reddred wrote:
> The idea that anyone thought that the Iraqi's were 'incapable' of
having a
> government modelled on ours (which is what you mean.

No, what Roger and DeserTBob and other have said is that Iraqi's
and other people in the Middle East are only capable of living under
the rule of strongmen, because they have no history of self governance.


> You don't mean
> 'self-rule', because all that means is a nation stste not being ruled
by
> another - right now, they are ruled by a another, the USA) is purely
a
> conservative (read: Rove) invention, meant to malign Democratic
concerns
> about the elections viability and the long term stability of Iraq.
Sure the
> Iraqi's are capable, if they aren't too busy killing each other. But
the
> Shia majority will most likely opt for a theocracy modeled after
Iran. It's
> not a question of capability, it's a question of desire.

They are having an election of Iraqis by Iraqis to write an Iraqi
Constitution, and the only thing we have insisted on is that they
consider the rights of women to Vote and protection for Minority ethnic
and religious groups. You call that "America ruling Iraq"? That claim
it only your "beard" for holding a decidedly Anti-Democratic position
when it comes to Iraqi/Islamic/Middle Eastern people.

> Again, the idea that anyone believes the Iraqi's are 'incapable' is a
myth
> stemming from a single remark GW made almost a year ago. Making that
remark
> also gave him an out in case the US sponsored elections simply don't
work -
> blame it on the Iraqi's. Rove and Bush are the ones that
intentionally
> called the Iraqi's 'ability to have a democracy' into question. It
wasn't
> even part of the dialog until they started in on it.

No, this has to do with a recent remark from DeserTBob about
Iraqi's, long winding threads from Roger about Iraq's cultural history,
and the cutural condescention and latent ethnocentric bigotry upon
which you also clearly base your political views.

But perhaps I am being a bit harsh, as I doubt you have actually
personally thought this out at all yourself. You are most likely merely
following the Bush hating pack, which is slipping deeper and deeper
into darkness...

Beware of darkness Red.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News Channel / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

 

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Bob Cain wrote:
> WillStG wrote:
>
> > But as for "Karl Rove kind of smear campaigns", Roger I am not at
> > all engaging in creative writing when I criticize you and other's
for
> > claiming that Iraqi's and Middle Eastern/Islamic people are
incapable
> > of self rule due to their culture and history - or race.
>
> You are the only one saying that. No one has made that
> claim that you so regularly attack. Are straw men of your
> creation the only ones you can dice with?

In fact that claim has been made here on RAP quite regularly Bob.
Perhaps you have been so involved in discussions of "Doppler
Distortion"
that you have overlooked them. Certainly such a view has also been
implied in much of the political rhetoric you subscribe to as well.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News Channel / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

 

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"Roger W. Norman" <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:JdOdnZDsH4RT5XjcRVn-rw@rcn.net...
> http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/2005/01/12.html
>
> And if you look I think you'll find that you have tons more posts on OT
> subject that I ever did. But regardless, you have won on the newsgroup,
> and
> I have won because I can now say anything I want to say and it doesn't
> make
> any difference whether you pay attention or not. But you'd better because
> you never know when I'll lay out a Karl Rove type of smear campaign
> against
> you! <g>
>
> Don't worry Will. I'd never do that. But if you come onboard and answer
> then I think it's free reign on riding you to the ground dude.


I'm not going to get involved in another OT war with Will, and I'm not the
kind of guy who says "I told you so", but, I told you so. Over a year ago
I told you that I knew there were no WMDs. I guess you choose not to
believe that THEY also knew that, and the war and all those deaths were
based on a concious LIE. The sort of lie that is on the scale of
international war crime.

Yeah, Saddam not being around is great (though he didn't seem to be a
problem, being supplied and financed by the US while , and after, he was
busy gassing Kurds and being a general bad guy to his own population) but
you also cannot tell me the USA doesn't have analysts that didn't figure my
other assertion that post-Saddam Iraq would be a mess for decades, if not
outright 3-way civil war .

So "na na naa-naa naa".

OK - I'm a immature jerk.

geoff

 

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On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:39:15 +1300, "Geoff Wood"
<geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote:

>
>"Roger W. Norman" <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote in message
>news:JdOdnZDsH4RT5XjcRVn-rw@rcn.net...
>> http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/2005/01/12.html
>>
>> And if you look I think you'll find that you have tons more posts on OT
>> subject that I ever did. But regardless, you have won on the newsgroup,
>> and
>> I have won because I can now say anything I want to say and it doesn't
>> make
>> any difference whether you pay attention or not. But you'd better because
>> you never know when I'll lay out a Karl Rove type of smear campaign
>> against
>> you! <g>
>>
>> Don't worry Will. I'd never do that. But if you come onboard and answer
>> then I think it's free reign on riding you to the ground dude.
>
>
>I'm not going to get involved in another OT war with Will, and I'm not the
>kind of guy who says "I told you so", but, I told you so. Over a year ago
>I told you that I knew there were no WMDs. I guess you choose not to
>believe that THEY also knew that, and the war and all those deaths were
>based on a concious LIE. The sort of lie that is on the scale of
>international war crime.

I hear that the Bush team is re-assigning the inspectors to search for
WMDs that may be hidden in the social security fund.

Al

 

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Geoff Wood wrote:

> I'm not going to get involved in another OT war with Will, and I'm not the
> kind of guy who says "I told you so", but, I told you so. Over a year ago
> I told you that I knew there were no WMDs. I guess you choose not to
> believe that THEY also knew that, and the war and all those deaths were
> based on a concious LIE. The sort of lie that is on the scale of
> international war crime.


I haven't had any discourse with the Willmeister in quite some time, and
I feel really good about it.

He was very insulting to me, but I still wish him peace.

(KF still in effect.)

 

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"Geoff Wood" <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote in message
news:41e57ce0@clear.net.nz

> ...you also cannot tell me the USA doesn't have analysts
> that didn't figure my other assertion that post-Saddam Iraq would be
> a mess for decades, if not outright 3-way civil war .

If the Pentagon military analysts didn't see this possibility ( a certainty)
there are plenty of street bums who did, and should replace them.

I've always figured that Bush Sr didn't chase Saddam's men back to Bagdhad
for this very reason.

 

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--

Somewhere in Texas, a village is missing its idiot.
"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:RpCdnVAsvL8ZV3jcRVn-ug@comcast.com...
> "Geoff Wood" <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:41e57ce0@clear.net.nz
>
> > ...you also cannot tell me the USA doesn't have analysts
> > that didn't figure my other assertion that post-Saddam Iraq would be
> > a mess for decades, if not outright 3-way civil war .
>
> If the Pentagon military analysts didn't see this possibility ( a
certainty)
> there are plenty of street bums who did, and should replace them.
>

But they did. Any of them that spoke up were replaced. See Shineski saying
several hundred thousand troops would be required to secure Iraq after a
war, and Rumsfeld ridiculing him for saying it. And then he gets replaced.

 

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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 20:10:37 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
wrote:

>"Geoff Wood" <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote in message
>news:41e57ce0@clear.net.nz
>
>> ...you also cannot tell me the USA doesn't have analysts
>> that didn't figure my other assertion that post-Saddam Iraq would be
>> a mess for decades, if not outright 3-way civil war .
>
>If the Pentagon military analysts didn't see this possibility ( a certainty)

I'm getting the impression that the Pentagon analysts certainly
foresay this, but that the Bush team didn't want to hear it.

Al

 

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Discussions there, please Will. After all, aren't the posts what you want
to keep down? <g>

Besides, work comes first. Good to see you have work coming in. There's
always time for jello later.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"WillStG" <willstg@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1105560375.475136.216100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Roger W. Norman wrote:
> > http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/2005/01/12.html
> >
> > And if you look I think you'll find that you have tons more posts on
> OT
> > subject that I ever did. But regardless, you have won on the
> newsgroup, and
> > I have won because I can now say anything I want to say and it
> doesn't make
> > any difference whether you pay attention or not. But you'd better
> because
> > you never know when I'll lay out a Karl Rove type of smear campaign
> against
> > you! <g>
> >
> > Don't worry Will. I'd never do that. But if you come onboard and
> answer
> > then I think it's free reign on riding you to the ground dude.
>
> Thank you Roger. I have a couple albums to do, so I haven't the
> time to counter all the roving gangs of your sympathizers here or on
> your new "blog" really. But I am sure they are gonna love having a
> place where they can all share their warm and fuzzy feelings about
> Micheal Moore, Al Franken, and your new best pal Pat Buchanan... <g>
>
> But as for "Karl Rove kind of smear campaigns", Roger I am not at
> all engaging in creative writing when I criticize you and other's for
> claiming that Iraqi's and Middle Eastern/Islamic people are incapable
> of self rule due to their culture and history - or race. Using that
> view as a basis for opposing America's foreign policy of working for
> free and fair elections in Iraq is to use the same argument that was
> made for withholding from African slaves the very freedoms and rights
> the Constitution guarantees to you and me. Were not many of the
> African tribes slavers stole slaves from far from being "Democratic?"
> Those of you on the political left who make such claims really need to
> do a bit of self examination on that rationale. It is an indefensible
> position, particularly for liberals.
>
> And while some might claim this is a "nature vs. nuture" argument,
> the fact is that in America we have already decided - as a matter of
> law, philosophy and history - that the human rights we enjoy here are
> the inborn rights of man, not rights granted by a Partiarchal State.
> We have human rights - and responsibilities - because we are all
> Children of the same Creator, and *that* inborn "Nature" supercedes all
> cultural and family background issues. So whether nature supercedes
> nurture or not, the American philosophy is everyone deserves the same
> human rights, and the right to vote is certainly one of the most basic
> in that regard.
>
> Anyway good luck with your blog. Maybe you'll even find some
> sponsors (is Air America totally dead yet?) Hopefully we can overcome
> the momentum to try to politicize RAP, Tsunami's and every damn thing
> is American life, which really does little to help anyone or change
> anything meaningfully I think.
>
> Will Miho
> NY Music & TV Audio Guy
> Staff Audio / Fox News / M-AES
> "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
>

 

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On 13 Jan 2005 03:03:34 -0800, "WillStG" <willstg@aol.com> wrote:

>reddred wrote:
>> The idea that anyone thought that the Iraqi's were 'incapable' of
>having a
>> government modelled on ours (which is what you mean.
>
>No, what Roger and DeserTBob and other have said is that Iraqi's
>and other people in the Middle East are only capable of living under
>the rule of strongmen, because they have no history of self governance.

Are you denying that there is no history or cultural tradition of
democracy in much of the Arab world? I think the point is that you
cannot just install democracy at gunpoint where it has never existed
previously, and expect it to be a success. Do you actually believe
the upcoming Iraqi elections are going to work? If so, take note of
this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/12/international/middleeast/12iraq.html

and this:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/13/iraq/index.html

and then get back to us on how it's going be a democracy in Iraq.

Al

 

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play on wrote:
> On 13 Jan 2005 03:03:34 -0800, "WillStG" <willstg@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >reddred wrote:
> >> The idea that anyone thought that the Iraqi's were 'incapable' of
> >having a
> >> government modelled on ours (which is what you mean.
> >
> >No, what Roger and DeserTBob and other have said is that Iraqi's
> >and other people in the Middle East are only capable of living under
> >the rule of strongmen, because they have no history of self
governance.
>
> Are you denying that there is no history or cultural tradition of
> democracy in much of the Arab world? I think the point is that you
> cannot just install democracy at gunpoint where it has never existed
> previously, and expect it to be a success. Do you actually believe
> the upcoming Iraqi elections are going to work? If so, take note of
> this:
>
>
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/12/international/middleeast/12iraq.html
>
> and this:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/13/iraq/index.html
>
> and then get back to us on how it's going be a democracy in Iraq.
>
> Al


Iraq had a Democracy before the invasion. Saddam won the last election
with an overwhelming majority.

Polls had President Hussien at 52% a few months ago, and they were
expecting his support to increase. Anyone who cares not to believe
this; well just let him run for re-election and see.

 

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On 13 Jan 2005 13:36:18 -0800, "nmm" <voxman@arvotek.net> wrote:

>Iraq had a Democracy before the invasion. Saddam won the last election
>with an overwhelming majority.

Of course you know that it was not a free election, & I believe there
was no one running against him... so what is the point of mentioning
it.

Al

 

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>
> Your lack of a coherent rationale for your position is noted.

blah blah blah... "oil for food"... blah blah blah.... "halliburton"... blah
blah blah..

Hmm... I thought today's topic was WMD. All you provided was a dodge. Just
come out and admit it. In all likelyhood, there are no WMDs. Most likely,
since we didn't find any recent evidence of them, they didn't have any in
the time period in question. We know they did earlier, but we also had
informers who told us they had destroyed them. I guess we should have
listened.

Of course, you get the last laugh Will. Nobody cares about the truth, they
just care who is on the latest "reality TV" show. Americans get the
politicians we deserve. And how.

 

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"nmm" <voxman@arvotek.net> wrote in message
news:1105652178.676431.136730@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Iraq had a Democracy before the invasion. Saddam won the last election
> with an overwhelming majority.

hahahahaha!!!!

I actually think, nmm, that you are just someone baiting guys like me in the
newsgroup. And I fell for it.

But no more. I will just cheer your jokes from now on. They are way
funny...!

JL

 

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Roger W. Norman wrote:
> You might as well stop now, Will. As you've done in the past, you
presume
> to present what I've said in the light you wish to view it.
>
> Put it on my weblog and get it off RAP. It's what you demanded, now
get
> yourself to a nunnery if you can't come up with a good reason to
continue
> YOUR Bushistic diatribes here on RAP.
>
> I've been nice to you so far. Do you dare to show your cyberface
around my
> back yard? Even after you've demanded that I create that back yard?
>
> Pussy.

> Roger W. Norman
> SirMusic Studio

Actually I'm winding all this down, in fact I have responded to the
comments of several individuals on this and other threads privately.

And I "demanded" you create a weblog because I understand you well
enough to know that's what you really wanted Roger, you needed to do
that... Hey, who's looking out for you? <g>

But I do think you should at least attempt to do better than making
with the Bush hating, because the politics of hate are as much the
stuff of demogogues in America as in the Middle East.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News Channel / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

 

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You might as well stop now, Will. As you've done in the past, you presume
to present what I've said in the light you wish to view it.

Put it on my weblog and get it off RAP. It's what you demanded, now get
yourself to a nunnery if you can't come up with a good reason to continue
YOUR Bushistic diatribes here on RAP.

I've been nice to you so far. Do you dare to show your cyberface around my
back yard? Even after you've demanded that I create that back yard?

Pussy.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"WillStG" <willstg@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1105614214.128761.300890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> reddred wrote:
> > The idea that anyone thought that the Iraqi's were 'incapable' of
> having a
> > government modelled on ours (which is what you mean.
>
> No, what Roger and DeserTBob and other have said is that Iraqi's
> and other people in the Middle East are only capable of living under
> the rule of strongmen, because they have no history of self governance.
>
>
> > You don't mean
> > 'self-rule', because all that means is a nation stste not being ruled
> by
> > another - right now, they are ruled by a another, the USA) is purely
> a
> > conservative (read: Rove) invention, meant to malign Democratic
> concerns
> > about the elections viability and the long term stability of Iraq.
> Sure the
> > Iraqi's are capable, if they aren't too busy killing each other. But
> the
> > Shia majority will most likely opt for a theocracy modeled after
> Iran. It's
> > not a question of capability, it's a question of desire.
>
> They are having an election of Iraqis by Iraqis to write an Iraqi
> Constitution, and the only thing we have insisted on is that they
> consider the rights of women to Vote and protection for Minority ethnic
> and religious groups. You call that "America ruling Iraq"? That claim
> it only your "beard" for holding a decidedly Anti-Democratic position
> when it comes to Iraqi/Islamic/Middle Eastern people.
>
> > Again, the idea that anyone believes the Iraqi's are 'incapable' is a
> myth
> > stemming from a single remark GW made almost a year ago. Making that
> remark
> > also gave him an out in case the US sponsored elections simply don't
> work -
> > blame it on the Iraqi's. Rove and Bush are the ones that
> intentionally
> > called the Iraqi's 'ability to have a democracy' into question. It
> wasn't
> > even part of the dialog until they started in on it.
>
> No, this has to do with a recent remark from DeserTBob about
> Iraqi's, long winding threads from Roger about Iraq's cultural history,
> and the cutural condescention and latent ethnocentric bigotry upon
> which you also clearly base your political views.
>
> But perhaps I am being a bit harsh, as I doubt you have actually
> personally thought this out at all yourself. You are most likely merely
> following the Bush hating pack, which is slipping deeper and deeper
> into darkness...
>
> Beware of darkness Red.
>
> Will Miho
> NY Music & TV Audio Guy
> Staff Audio / Fox News Channel / M-AES
> "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
>

 

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On 14 Jan 2005 17:47:53 -0800, "WillStG" <willstg@aol.com> wrote:

>Actually I'm winding all this down

When?

Al

 

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Roger W. Norman wrote:

> I said a year before the war that A) we were going to war on Iraq, and B)
> they had no weapons of mass destruction. I'm a nobody and I KNEW this.

Something even more troubling that you, I and others
predicted because it was obvious. The "administration" has
effectively created a training program for terror:


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/14/politics/14intel.html?oref=login&th

(Sorry about the need to register for the NYT online but
it's worth it.)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein