I think i need a new PSU...

[Col_Kiwi]

Okay, so I upgraded my system last week to get more ram- 768mb ddr333 on my P4S533 compared to the 256mb I had before.

I'm having massive problems now, like random reboots while playing games, and warcraft 3 crashing with memory read errors.

Seems to me my cheap no-name 300W PSU that came with my case is done for.

Idle, while typing this post, these are my voltages:

+12V: 11.84
+5V: 5.08V
+3.3V: 3.088V
VCore: 1.552 (remember the asus overvolting tradition)

It seems to me I definately need a new PSU, but if anyone thinks otherwise, do let me know.

I'm considering either an Enermax 350W or an Enermax 450W. Price is a major object, so I'm basically trying to determine if the 350 would be enough or not.

I've got:

ASUS P4S533
P4 1.8A @ 2.4
768MB DDR333 CAS2.5 (256 + 512)
WD800JB
Two optical drives, cdrom + old 8x burner
GF4 Ti4200-128 @ 275/550
no PCI cards

I'm hoping to get a future proof solution. Do I need to spring the cash for the 450W?

-Col.Kiwi

 

[AEboy128]

NewEgg has an Allied 400 watt PSU that seems to be a very good power supply. I know that the Enermax is a good power supply, but I feel that they are overrated and overpriced. I only offer this option because you said that cost is a major objective. Also, Sparkle makes great power supplies that are very reasonably priced. Their 350 watt power supply puts out roughly the same amount of power as the Allied 400 watt. If the power supply is the problem, i would reccommend either the Sparkle 300 or 350 watt or the Allied 400 watt.

The NewEgg link to the Allied PSU:
<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=17-154-004" target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=17-154-004</A>

Also, it could be bad memory causing the random reboots. Bad memory has been known to cause problems like this. If you pull out the new 512mb stick it works fine right? What happens if you only put the 512mb stick in? Do you have a system that you could test the new stick of ram in?

I want a Mustang...<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by AEboy128 on 02/02/03 06:23 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Col_Kiwi]

Well, I live outside the US, so newegg doesn't ship to me, and taxes/currency conversion usually makes it so that buying from a local canadian store costs less in the end then an american site.

I'm going to run memtest86 with both sticks, then with just the 256, then with just the 512, note the results, and post the results here afterwards. That should tell me if the memory module is to blame.

-Col.Kiwi

 

[Col_Kiwi]

Okay, ran memtest86. Results:

256mb in slot 1, 512mb in slot 2: 556 errors returned (!!!)
256mb in slot 1 only: 0 errors
512mb in slot 2 only: 0 errors


It seems my memory modules are fine. I'm currently running with just the 512mb module until I can get a new PSU-- no use crashing after 10 minutes of gameplay...

So I'm thinking I'll get the Enermax 450W, for the sake of future proofing. The 350W would probably run okay, since my no-name 300W managed up until I added a second dimm, but I want to keep my awesome window case for years to come, so I figure if I get a 450W PSU now, I'm much more likely to not need a new PSU with my next mobo/cpu upgrade.

I <b>can</b> afford it (barely), it's $140 canadian after taxes, and i've got about $160 being saved for hardware at the moment. Too bad this will set back my plans for a new server :frown: .

Any other suggestions/comments before I run out and buy that PSU tomorrow?

-Col.Kiwi

 

[4Ryan6]

You may have RAM that tests fine individually but can't be run in pairs, I ran into some Samsung RAM that did that, and Win2K and WinXP will successfully handle 768Mb of RAM but the Win9Xs will not.



Details, Details, Its all in the Details, If you need help, Don't leave out the Details.

 

[AEboy128]

What brand of chips do the memory modules have? Do you have any or know anyone with some ram that you could borrow to test and make sure that that really is the problem?

The only reason I ask is I don't really think that one 256mb stick of ram really takes that much power...

Just thought of this: Try disconnecting the power to your hard drive and then run mem test with both sticks of ram, if it works it probably is your PSU, if not it's probably the ram.

I want a Mustang...

 

[Col_Kiwi]

I've got Win2k, so that's not the problem.

The 256mb is Samsung, the 512mb is Azenram. The disconnecting of drives idea is good, I'll disconnect my cdrw and HD then run memtest with both dimms... results will be here tomorrow.
-Col.Kiwi

 

[lhgpoobaa]

I think its a ram combo issue. seen it a few times before.

certain combinations of ram in slots can be problematic
think its best to have the biggest stick in the first slot, getting progressivly smaller in proceeding slots.

Also try backing off on mem timings or increasing voltage (if possible)

having many sticks can introduce wierd timing problems.


<b>My Computer is so powerful Sauron Desires it and mortal men Covet it, <i>My Precioussssssss</i></b>

 

[knowan]

Yep, it sounds very much like a RAM compatibility issue. Azenram is cheep, generic ram, and the 2 brands don't seem to be mixing well. Azenram definately doesn't use Samsung chips.

Your voltages posted above look fine. I doubt that it is your power supply giving you issues. You seem to have plenty of juce to spare.

Your Ram sticks also seem to work fine on their own, and are only giving you issues when mixed together. You can try backing down the timings on the RAM and running memtest again. You can also try switching slots, but I don't think that will work.

If you just purchased the new RAM recently some stores will not charge you a restocking fee if you trade it in for a more expensive brand. Most stores will though.

NCIX.com seems to be selling Samsung ram cheep right now.

--------------
Knowan likes you. Knowan is your friend. Knowan thinks you're great.

 

[knowan]

I just checked, Azenram uses either Kingston, Micron or Spectek chips (I never heard of Spectek before). Lately they seem to be using mostly Kingston.

--------------
Knowan likes you. Knowan is your friend. Knowan thinks you're great.

 

[namek0]

Spectek is about as cheap as you can get. My aunt has a computer with a 64 pc100 stick of Spectek in it.

One can't help but laugh at the name

It's all good ^_^

 

[Col_Kiwi]

First off, memtest86 with both modules but no HDs plugged in still errored like mad, as you folks expected (108 error bits).

Second of all, I am one lucky lucky man!

The (very cool!) computer store I use here has one weakness with memory -- they don't tell you what brand you're getting, just the speed, timings, etc, then give you whatever they have at the front of the shelf in the stockroom. This is how I wound up with Azenram, I wouldn't have <b>chosen</b> something like that.

The tech I just spoke to on the phone agreed right after hearing the explination that it was a brand issue, and said if I bring it in within 14 days of purchase (its a week old only) and with the bill (which I have), I can exchange it for Samsung for free, since they sell all brands of memory they have at the same price!

Thanks guys.

Edit: Btw, the Azenram (which I'll be ditching in a few hours :tongue: ) memory chips are labelled "Tei", a brand I've never heard of.

-Col.Kiwi<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Col_Kiwi on 02/03/03 05:11 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[lhgpoobaa]

well thats good to hear. Sambsung is good stuff so hopefully you wont get ram missmatch issues.

generally its a good idea to stick with the same brand ram, and avoid potential issues like what you have had.

<b>My Computer is so powerful Sauron Desires it and mortal men Covet it, <i>My Precioussssssss</i></b>

 

[icy_oblivion]

You can get an Enermax 431W with 2 fan from <A HREF="http://www.ncix.com/canada" target="_new">http://www.ncix.com/canada</A> for $103.96. You would have tax and shipping on top of that but you might want to look at some of their other PSU as well.

<b>Just because I like AMD or Intel more at a time because of one product compared to another, does not make me a fan boy, it makes me a person who is able to make a descision for myself.</b>

 

[icy_oblivion]

Just found another great deal on <A HREF="http://www.dangeo.com" target="_new">http://www.dangeo.com</A> for $89 you can get a 400W Allied PSU with dual fans. And this is a Canadian web site.

<b>Just because I like AMD or Intel more at a time because of one product compared to another, does not make me a fan boy, it makes me a person who is able to make a descision for myself.</b>

 

[Col_Kiwi]

Um, no offence, but, did you actually read the whole thread? We determined a while back that I don't really need a new PSU.


Latest update:

I got my 512mb samsung, and put it in with the 256. Memtest results:

512mb in slot 1, 256mb in slot 2: thousands of errors
256mb in slot 1, 512mb in slot 2: thousands of errors
512mb in slot 2: froze before completion
512mb in slot 1: froze
256mb in slot 1 or 2: 0 errors


Well, first of all, god hates me.

Now that I'm done with that, wtf is wrong?

From that set of tests and the process of elimination they present, I see only one possibility:

-The original combo of 256 samsung and 512 azenram failed due to the brand issues, as we thought.
-The 512mb samsung i just got is fried.

Someone wanna tell me I'm wrong?

The store is closed, I'm going to call their service again tomorrow afternoon and see if they have any other suggestions, and if not (and you guys also have no ideas) then I'll see about getting the new 512mb samsung replaced with a different 512mb samsung on warranty.

-Col.Kiwi

 

[icy_oblivion]

yeah, I figured that out a bit later.

I was just overly excited at being able to help, so I didn't read the rest of the thread.

But on the good side, now you know where to get a PSU if you need one.

<b>Just because I like AMD or Intel more at a time because of one product compared to another, does not make me a fan boy, it makes me a person who is able to make a descision for myself.</b>

 

[Schryver]

Have you tried using conservative memory timings yet? You haven't posted what you're trying to run the memory at, but if you've got it at DDR 400 CAS 2-2-2 that <i>just might</i> be your problem. ;-)

This seems like it could really be the cause of your problems. Back it off to a lower multiplier or more conservative CAS settings and see how things go. It'd be nice to at least get the stuff working, at <i>any</i> speed...

Edit: Is it possible the store you're using slipped you some PC 2100? That would be problematic.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by schryver on 02/03/03 10:58 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Crashman]

3.3v voltage of 3.0v is definately whack. Not only that, but it's probably the cause of your memory problem, as this is the most likely line for your 2.5v memory. I assembled a similar system and used the +0.2v vCore jumper to stabilize the CPU at 2.4GHz, BTW.

But like I said, those voltages are too far off.

<font color=blue>There are no stupid questions, only stupid people doling out faulty information based upon rumors, myths, and poor logic!</font color=blue>

 

[Col_Kiwi]

I'm running at 2.5-4-4-7, the SPD timings for both modules. Not a timing issue I think.

The memory is definately PC2700, it's labelled as such.

-Col.Kiwi

 

[Col_Kiwi]

Hmm... you think my PSU's weak 3.3v could cause the problem?

The thing that seems weird to me about that explination is...

Before, my 256 samsung + 512 azenram setup worked with either module alone but not both modules, and still not with both modules and no drives, confirming it wasn't a lack of power output that was the issue. Of course, it could be the lack of <b>voltage</b> on the 3.3v line, that was screwing it all along I suppose.

If that's the case, though...

Results with new 512mb samsung stick:

512mb in slot 1, 256mb in slot 2: thousands of errors
256mb in slot 1, 512mb in slot 2: thousands of errors
512mb in slot 2: froze before completion
512mb in slot 1: froze
256mb in slot 1 or 2: 0 errors

Why would the 512mb samsung fail alone when the 512mb azenram worked alone? Perhaps the samsung one requires more voltage as it's better ram, or perhaps the PSU is getting progressively worse? Would it make sense for my 256mb stick to tolerate the lower voltage whilst my 512mb stick doesn't?

I think I know what to do about this. I can try both my 512mb samsung stick, and the combination of both my 256mb and 512mb samsung sticks in a different mobo. My father's home office machine has a SiS645 (not DX) board that should do for the purposes of determining if the memory works fine in a system with a stable power setup.

I'm thinking that if my memory sticks work fine in his machine, then I know I just need the new PSU i originally thought I needed. If my memory fails in his machine (and I check he doesn't also have a PSU with a weak 3.3v), then it's likely my memory is teh fried.

Please, think over my logic and give me some feedback, I feel like I'm over my head and would appreciate some advice. Thanks

-Col.Kiwi

 

[Crashman]

1.) it would make sense that your higher quality, lower amperage (due to it's smaller size) 256MB module could operate at lower voltage or even that the 512MB module could contribute to a voltage drop. Now, it sound like you might have a bad module, but...you can't tell for certain unless you get your voltages in order!

<font color=blue>There are no stupid questions, only stupid people doling out faulty information based upon rumors, myths, and poor logic!</font color=blue>

 

[AEboy128]

What memory settings/speed are you trying to run?? I had a Samsung 256mb SDRAM that refused to run at Cas2....

I want a Mustang...

 

[Col_Kiwi]

GRR. Something is really screwed.

Okay, so I wanted to determine if my module was bad before getting a new PSU. So this afternoon I tested my 512mb samsung module in my brother's VIA P4M266 mobo (couldn't get my dad's SiS645 system), so I had to run it at 133mhz instead of 166mhz. It passed memtest okay. (Btw, his comp's 3.3v read at 3.24v)

I didn't run out and buy a new PSU just yet, wanted to make sure it wasn't just a bad module that worked at 133 and not at 166. So I memtested the module in my comp again, but at 133mhz this time. It failed the test with thousands of errors. Now I was sure that the memory was fine and my PSU was to blame.

So I bought that Enermax 450W I wanted, figured it was a good future-proof choice.

I got home, installed the PSU, installed both ram modules (512 in slot 1, 256 in slot 2), and ram memtest. I got the thousands of errors issue at arount 65% of the way through the test.

I then ran memtest with only the 512 module -- it froze, as it used to before I got the new PSU. (remember it was fine on my brother's board)


WTF!!!!!

Now I'm desperate and frustrated. Someone have any idea wtf?

If I can't get any other ideas, I suppose I'll call the store tomorrow afternoon and arrange to bring my entire system in for their service people to troubleshoot it. I'm over my head now unless one of you has a solution idea left.

Edit: If it means anything, it just occurred to me the only info I haven't given you is that the 256mb module is single sided and the 512mb module is double sided. That's probably what you assumed anyway, but meh.

-Col.Kiwi<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Col_Kiwi on 02/04/03 09:12 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Col_Kiwi]

Well, I may have isolated the problem.

It occurred to me one thing, unlikely, but possible -- my board is in some way defective and cannot use double sided memory modules.

So, I stole one of my brother's 256mb double sided DDR266 modules and tossed it in as the only module in my system. Wouldn't even POST. Tried it in the other two memory slots, same thing.

It occurred to me that my memory divider wasn't auto SPD, but 4:5. So I put my single sided 256mb ddr333 samsung module back in and changed the memory ratio to 1:1 (133mhz). Then proceeded to try the double sided 256mb module in all three slots again -- none of those times would it post.

Just like the double sided 512mb, which failed to post on second boot... (after failing memtest on first boot)

It seems to me my board is to blame. Of course, it also seemed to me that my new PSU would solve the problem.

Comments?


Btw: I'll probably keep the Enermax PSU even though I could return it -- I'm sure the other one's voltages would cause problems at some point in the future, and this Enermax one is just cool.

-Col.Kiwi