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Hope Springs Eternal (was: , , Quantegy Tape Rumors)

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Anonymous
January 13, 2005 6:41:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

http://www.atrservice.com/news/news_item.php?newsid=40

A well balanced view from one of the most knowledgable people in the
world of analog recording technology (and yes, he has a vested
interest in keeping tape to fee the recorders he reconditions).



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 12:06:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:

> A well balanced view from one of the most knowledgable people in the
> world of analog recording technology

Does it not seem odd to anyone that a company who " Last year...<>...
reported total sales of about 30M." isn't capable of staying in
business? Honestly does anyone know how bad management was? I have
friends here running Media and Production business's that hit 5 million
dollars in sales and are profitable.

--
Nathan

"Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 12:06:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <41E6E2EB.45692388@nc.rr.com> natewest@nc.rr.com writes:

> Does it not seem odd to anyone that a company who " Last year...<>...
> reported total sales of about 30M." isn't capable of staying in
> business? Honestly does anyone know how bad management was? I have
> friends here running Media and Production business's that hit 5 million
> dollars in sales and are profitable.

What's their cost for raw materials, salaries, buildings and
maintenance, and production machinery? You can't make tape in your
garage.

Frankly, it seems odd to me that airlines can't stay in business
without a lot of help, but then the government or courts aren't about
to bail out Quantegy. They have to find their own money.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
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Anonymous
January 14, 2005 12:37:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Nathan West wrote:

> Mike Rivers wrote:

> > A well balanced view from one of the most knowledgable people in the
> > world of analog recording technology

> Does it not seem odd to anyone that a company who " Last year...<>...
> reported total sales of about 30M." isn't capable of staying in
> business? Honestly does anyone know how bad management was? I have
> friends here running Media and Production business's that hit 5 million
> dollars in sales and are profitable.

Manufacturing isn't quite the same as media & production. And look how
much biz Enron was doing. <g>

--
ha ha ha
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 3:28:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message

> Manufacturing isn't quite the same as media & production. And look how
> much biz Enron was doing. <g>

Point taken. <g>

Maybe someone would look at the factory and take stock of the 30M figure.
There is no way it cost that company 20 million a year to make tape. But
even if it did, 10M is nice profit. And if the owners were rolling back 9M
into the business to improve quality and replace/maintain machinery they
could walk with a nice investment and pay bonuses to the sales and factory
staff.

PollyNathan signing off.
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 3:47:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <wrote in message >
> What's their cost for raw materials, salaries, buildings and
> maintenance, and production machinery?

Off the top of my head: 75% of revenue. If it cost more then there is a
cost management problem at the heart of the business; that perhaps Quantegy
management is lacking, or have been profiteering and letting the business
die.

>> You can't make tape in your
>> garage.

The media companies I deal with aren't ran out of garages, but in real brick
and mortar buildings in the
Research Triangle Park. They also have the real associated cost of buying
and maintaining hardware, production, staging equipment, new technology,
Labor (and associated cost)... etc...
Or maybe I misunderstood your comment about garages...are you referring to
Bill Gates?

> Frankly, it seems odd to me that airlines can't stay in business
> without a lot of help,

Most *don't* stay in business. Except that Southwest though has made a
profit every year of business, including post 9/11. And yes you can argue
that they had a lot of advantages in hubs, shorter routes etc... but then I
would argue back that they had excellent insight into how a Airline could
successfully be ran in the US.

The problem I see with United, AA, Delta and the others is they have had
unrealistic almost Dot.Com approaches to running airlines the last 25 years.
They are also stocked to the gils with old school management that couldn't
predict the outcome of yesterday's baseball game and are void of any sort of
foresight about the business. At the same time they have been part and
parcel of the self entitlement generation of business managers, awarding
themselves millions of dollars in bonuses when they are headed to, or
currently are in bankruptcy. How they stay out of jail is beyond me. BTW I
also think that GM is heading to the same neighborhood.

>but then the government or courts aren't about
> to bail out Quantegy. They have to find their own money.

Or maybe someone will realize what is going on there and not chase good
money after bad. Yes I'm slightly negative about it, but with good reason.
Over the last 15 years my dealings with any business has produced the same
two realizations: Profitable companies have Great Leadership and Great
Leadership is the rarest of commodity at most business's.
Nathan
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 3:47:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Nathan West <natewest@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>"Mike Rivers" <wrote in message >
>> What's their cost for raw materials, salaries, buildings and
>> maintenance, and production machinery?
>
>Off the top of my head: 75% of revenue. If it cost more then there is a
>cost management problem at the heart of the business; that perhaps Quantegy
>management is lacking, or have been profiteering and letting the business
>die.

I have not seen the numbers.

But I do remember that a few years ago, the Quantegy holding company took
the Ampex media division over from Ampex as repayment for some debts. They
did this because the media group was the ONLY PROFITABLE division of Ampex
at the time.

From this I can gather:
1. Quantegy was reasonably profitable at least fairly recently
2. Ampex was badly mismanaged and some of that may have come over to
Quantegy with the takeover.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 8:53:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Nathan West wrote:

> Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>
>>A well balanced view from one of the most knowledgable people in the
>>world of analog recording technology
>
>
> Does it not seem odd to anyone that a company who " Last year...<>...
> reported total sales of about 30M." isn't capable of staying in
> business?

No. $30M companies went out of style about ten years ago...

> Honestly does anyone know how bad management was? I have
> friends here running Media and Production business's that hit 5 million
> dollars in sales and are profitable.

Those are not capital-goods intensive companies. With all due
respect to your buddies they are much closer to a "time
and materials" cashflow model. It's a service business.
It doesn't "make" anything tangible.

>
> --
> Nathan
>
> "Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"
>
>
--
Les Cargill
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 9:05:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Nathan West wrote:

> "Mike Rivers" <wrote in message >
>
>>What's their cost for raw materials, salaries, buildings and
>>maintenance, and production machinery?
>
>
> Off the top of my head: 75% of revenue. If it cost more then there is a
> cost management problem at the heart of the business; that perhaps Quantegy
> management is lacking, or have been profiteering and letting the business
> die.
>
>
>>>You can't make tape in your
>>>garage.
>
>
> The media companies I deal with aren't ran out of garages, but in real brick
> and mortar buildings in the
> Research Triangle Park. They also have the real associated cost of buying
> and maintaining hardware, production, staging equipment, new technology,
> Labor (and associated cost)... etc...


But they still bid jobs based on estimated time and
materials. They are not making "commodity" goods for
sale in the open market.

> Or maybe I misunderstood your comment about garages...are you referring to
> Bill Gates?
>
>
>>Frankly, it seems odd to me that airlines can't stay in business
>>without a lot of help,
>
>
> Most *don't* stay in business. Except that Southwest though has made a
> profit every year of business, including post 9/11. And yes you can argue
> that they had a lot of advantages in hubs, shorter routes etc... but then I
> would argue back that they had excellent insight into how a Airline could
> successfully be ran in the US.
>

Everybody I know who has worked at an airline disagrees with
this statement. Southwest cannot be the primary business model;
they completely depend on being a second-tier provider.

I do not know this to be true, but these folks are
either deluded or know more than I do.

> The problem I see with United, AA, Delta and the others is they have had
> unrealistic almost Dot.Com approaches to running airlines the last 25 years.
> They are also stocked to the gils with old school management that couldn't
> predict the outcome of yesterday's baseball game and are void of any sort of
> foresight about the business. At the same time they have been part and
> parcel of the self entitlement generation of business managers, awarding
> themselves millions of dollars in bonuses when they are headed to, or
> currently are in bankruptcy. How they stay out of jail is beyond me. BTW I
> also think that GM is heading to the same neighborhood.
>

The unrealistic expectations are from Joe Schmoe and his
401k plan. He has no interest in the running of the
business, just in the ROI.

>
>>but then the government or courts aren't about
>>to bail out Quantegy. They have to find their own money.
>
>
> Or maybe someone will realize what is going on there and not chase good
> money after bad.

Someone will, but you'll never see a significant fraction
of investors do much more than what you now see.


> Yes I'm slightly negative about it, but with good reason.
> Over the last 15 years my dealings with any business has produced the same
> two realizations: Profitable companies have Great Leadership and Great
> Leadership is the rarest of commodity at most business's.
> Nathan

Which stands in stark contrast to the "managers are greedy
bastards who are overpaid" theme of many of these threads.

Rare commodities command rare price.

>
>
>
--
Les Cargill
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 10:40:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Les Cargill" wrote in message

> But they still bid jobs based on estimated time and
> materials. They are not making "commodity" goods for
> sale in the open market.

You have a product, it has a market value. There isn't a difference to me.
If they made 2" tape, and they couldn't return profit on it, then they
either raise the price to enable the revenue, or they fail becuase they
think that breaking even is a good idea. And if you are manufacturing Video
Tape, and you can't see the forest for the tree's, then you suffer the
consequences and are also a poor manager.


> Everybody I know who has worked at an airline disagrees with
> this statement. Southwest cannot be the primary business model;
> they completely depend on being a second-tier provider.

None the less with the way airlines are going bankrupt right and left it
appears that the people managing and working in them are clueless.

> The unrealistic expectations are from Joe Schmoe and his
> 401k plan. He has no interest in the running of the
> business, just in the ROI.

No the BOD and the CEO & CFO leadership skills are suspect when a company
can't meet the needs of Shareholders and Business demands.

> Which stands in stark contrast to the "managers are greedy
> bastards who are overpaid" theme of many of these threads.
>
> Rare commodities command rare price.

Well I've never bought into the greedy CEO's have wrecked my life senario.
There are a percentage who rip off business's along guys that get paid in
the range of Michael Isner who are obsencely greedy ripoffs in themselves.
But it is contrasted with the great leaders like CostCo CEO Jim Senegal, who
only take 1/2 a million salary. And CostCo is a great place to work and
shop.

Nathan
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 8:53:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1105658014k@trad...
> What's their cost for raw materials, salaries, bvildings and
> maintenance, and prodvction machinery? Yov can't make tape in yovr
> garage.

Capital!

Whether $x is a good profit or not depends a lot on how mvch capital yov
have (and, to some extent, on how it's strvctvred, e.g. how mvch debt, how
mvch eqvity).

> Frankly, it seems odd to me that airlines can't stay in bvsiness
> withovt a lot of help, bvt then the government or covrts aren't abovt
> to bail ovt Qvantegy. They have to find their own money.

Airlines are enormovsly capital-intensive. Most bvsinesses that are that
heavily capitalized will go broke on the bad side of the bvsiness cycle.
Reorganization (what's now available to bvsinesses generally in Chapter 11
of the Bankrvptcy Code) was invented for railroads, which periodically went
bvst even in their heyday.

Also -- in the case of the old-line carriers -- vnionized. That works okay
if yovr competitors are all also vnionized (with similar contracts and the
same vnions), bvt sinks yov if they're not.
!