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live amp vs pod - what really is the difference apart from..

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January 14, 2005 3:20:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi guys,

Just asking the pros on this board who have experienced recording live
amps for years and have tried the POD to compare.

Does a live amp cut through more? I ask because the pod can sound
gluggy and flabby at times. What I am after is a pushed/clean guitar
sound that has an agressive tone to it. Like as if the guitar sounds
like it is cranked really loud but doesn't need to be so loud in the
mix to portray that.

I've tried experimenting with room simulations/POD to no success. I
want the dry guitar to have that sound in it. What is a popular
guitar/amp combo for a modern pushed sound. I own the telecaster and
want to buy an amp. My music has lots of little elec guitar parts
floating around the spectrum with heaps of delay kinda like googoo
dolls/U2.

Any help is appreciated.

Dave.
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 4:10:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 14 Jan 2005 00:20:10 -0800, david_m76@hotmail.com (David) wrote:

>Hi guys,
>
>Just asking the pros on this board who have experienced recording live
>amps for years and have tried the POD to compare.
>
>Does a live amp cut through more? I ask because the pod can sound
>gluggy and flabby at times. What I am after is a pushed/clean guitar
>sound that has an agressive tone to it.

You want an amp... the cleaner amp emulations never sound right to me,
although the distorted and overdriven tones can sound OK.

Like as if the guitar sounds
>like it is cranked really loud but doesn't need to be so loud in the
>mix to portray that.
>
>I've tried experimenting with room simulations/POD to no success. I
>want the dry guitar to have that sound in it. What is a popular
>guitar/amp combo for a modern pushed sound. I own the telecaster and
>want to buy an amp. My music has lots of little elec guitar parts
>floating around the spectrum with heaps of delay kinda like googoo
>dolls/U2.

Get an amp with EL84s in the output section.

Al
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 8:18:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> Just asking the pros on this board who have experienced recording
live
> amps for years and have tried the POD to compare.
>
> Does a live amp cut through more? I ask because the pod can sound
> gluggy and flabby at times. What I am after is a pushed/clean guitar
> sound that has an agressive tone to it. Like as if the guitar sounds
> like it is cranked really loud but doesn't need to be so loud in the
> mix to portray that.
>
> I've tried experimenting with room simulations/POD to no success. I
> want the dry guitar to have that sound in it. What is a popular
> guitar/amp combo for a modern pushed sound. I own the telecaster and
> want to buy an amp. My music has lots of little elec guitar parts
> floating around the spectrum with heaps of delay kinda like googoo
> dolls/U2.
>
> Any help is appreciated.
>
> Dave.

Nothing seems to replace the character created by a
real moving speaker cone. Regardless of how much
distortion is made by overdriven preamps, output
tubes and transformers, the last element (speaker
moving air) is what makes sound. Anything else as
you are finding is just a cheap imitation. The more
a speaker moves (louder) the more it 'breaks up'
and creates additional overtones. In general a
thinner/lighter cone will break up more as will
a more shallow cone, and smaller voice coil cones
more than larger VC. 12" speakers are best for guitar
(my opinion). Celestions have small coils and light
cones and it's no secret that they have the most
character.
Go down to GC or Sam's and set up in a room where
you can PLAY LOUD and find the sound you are
after. Most amps do sound a little (or a lot)
different from each other and there's no way
one box will do it effectively, no pun intended.
I play a MusicMan through 12" EVM's and I think
it sounds OK, but it doesn't come close to a
Marshall through Celestions.

good luck
rd
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Anonymous
January 14, 2005 2:54:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Besides tone the feel is totally different. There's some kind of
latency and diconnect between the guitar and final audio. I've been
able to get some OK recordings with my POD but 90+% of the time I want
an amp.
January 14, 2005 3:09:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Well, I like to think I've learned a thing or two about playing and
recording guitars. But freely state I've also learned a LOT about
microphones, preamps, and recording techniques from the enormous RAP
knowledge-base.

I discovered that the variety of tones one can pull from an amp and a
couple of mics in varying positions far surpasses anything I've heard
come from a POD. I'm not saying the POD CAN'T be useful. I just think
it is deceptively limited in its tonal variety. That's just one working
guitarist's opinion (and I agree about "gluggy and flabby").

But to answer your question directly; yes, I think a live amp cuts
through more.

Given your description of your music, I believe your guitar-recording
needs might be better met with a few dynamic microphones, a decent
transparent preamp, and a good guitar-amp. I do projects much like you
have described.

Some mics I've learned to love for recording guitar-amps: Sennheiser
e-609 (silver), EV 635a, and MXL V67g as a room mic. Sometimes I get
good results with an SM57, but I prefer the other ones I mentioned.

Preamps I've learned to love: Grace 101, FMR RNP. These hit in the
neighborhood of $500 (Grace is more, RNP is less).

My go-to guitar amp is a Korg reissue Vox AC15. These have been
discontinued, and the market price is rising. Generally, any
inexpensive all-tube 15 to 30 watt amp-combo is worth checking out. You
don't need more wattage to make good recordings. Crate makes some amps
that I have heard good things about. Peavey's Classic 30 and Delta
Blues amps are both good, in my experience. I used a Fender Blues
Junior at a rehearsal last night, and was pleasantly surprised at how
big a sound it made. Ampeg made some amps in the 60's with names like
"Jet" and "Reverberocket" that can still be gotten for a few hundred
dollars. I have a '64 Reverberocket that has really great tremolo and
reverb.

In any case, use your ears to find an amp that makes the sound(s) you
want to hear. Then try recording it with different mics and preamps.
You'll discover a whole lot of interesting "that's not the sound I was
going-for" tones in the process.

Of course, you COULD just stick with the POD, and save yourself the
whole process of going through amps, mics, preamps, and recording
techniques.

Best of luck,
-dave
www.themoodrings.com
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 5:15:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Just asking the pros on this board who have experienced recording live
> amps for years and have tried the POD to compare.
>
> Does a live amp cut through more? I ask because the pod can sound
> gluggy and flabby at times. What I am after is a pushed/clean guitar
> sound that has an agressive tone to it. Like as if the guitar sounds
> like it is cranked really loud but doesn't need to be so loud in the
> mix to portray that.
>
> I've tried experimenting with room simulations/POD to no success. I
> want the dry guitar to have that sound in it. What is a popular
> guitar/amp combo for a modern pushed sound. I own the telecaster and
> want to buy an amp. My music has lots of little elec guitar parts
> floating around the spectrum with heaps of delay kinda like googoo
> dolls/U2.

For good clean tones on the cheap the standard seems to be the Peavey
Classic 30, a good neutral tube amp, but you should also try the Crate
Vintage Club 15 since it's got a Vox-ish (Class A tube) tone to it that
relates to your described sound, although I prefer the Classic 30's
distortion. Both use EL84's. I recommend you avoid Marshalls and Celestion
speakers, they're designed for one sound only - nasal raunch.
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 6:56:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 14 Jan 2005 00:20:10 -0800, david_m76@hotmail.com (David) wrote:

>Hi guys,
>
>Just asking the pros on this board who have experienced recording live
>amps for years and have tried the POD to compare.
>
>Does a live amp cut through more? I ask because the pod can sound
>gluggy and flabby at times. What I am after is a pushed/clean guitar
>sound that has an agressive tone to it. Like as if the guitar sounds
>like it is cranked really loud but doesn't need to be so loud in the
>mix to portray that.
>
>I've tried experimenting with room simulations/POD to no success. I
>want the dry guitar to have that sound in it. What is a popular
>guitar/amp combo for a modern pushed sound. I own the telecaster and
>want to buy an amp. My music has lots of little elec guitar parts
>floating around the spectrum with heaps of delay kinda like googoo
>dolls/U2.
>
>Any help is appreciated.
>
>Dave.

Nothing compares to a mic on a guitar cab, in my opinion.
Some people have gotten the pod and other devices to sound pretty
good, but I still prefer a real guitar rig.In addition to a decent
guitar and amp, you need a good signal path to capture it.
Good mic , preamp, and good sounding room to start.
You may want to visit a local major studio and do a quick session
to see what the techniques are, and note the signal path used.
We use Marshall amps mainly, sometimes with a custom Larry amp
thrown in on a few tracks.I would start by going to your local music
store and playing through amps until you find the sound you want, then
work on getting the gear to capture that sound on your own.
We used to experiment for days sometimes in the studio to get the
right guitar tone.Stacking 6 rythym guitar tracks at varying levels of
gain and distortion was the way we got our sound.Experimentation with
all the gear available is really the key, nobody can tell you what the
tone is that you desire.You will have to experiment and find that
sound yourself.

Randall
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 11:36:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 14 Jan 2005 00:20:10 -0800, david_m76@hotmail.com (David) wrote:

The difference apart from tone?

Is there anything else *besides* tone?

jtougas

listen- there's a hell of a good universe next door
let's go

e.e. cummings
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 9:35:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David wrote:

> Just asking the pros on this board who have experienced recording live
> amps for years and have tried the POD to compare.

First: if you're considering buying a POD, go with the Vox ToneLab
instead.

It isn't an A+ but it's better than the POD.

A good tube amp will always kick the butt of a modeling unit -- but the
latter are certainly handy for tones the amp doesn't get -- and who here
can afford to have more than perhaps a couple of good tube amp setups
around?

--
Jonathan Roberts * guitar, keyboards, vocals * North River Preservation
----------------------------------------------
To reach me reverse: moc(dot)xobop(at)ggestran
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