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Symetrix 620 A/D vs. converters in MOTU 828mkII

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Anonymous
January 14, 2005 5:06:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I am a professional jazz pianist and have been recording music in my
apartment by feeding the output of a Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer to a
(no-longer-made) Symetrix 620 A/D converter. If I were to replace BOTH
of these with a MOTU 828mkII Firewire 24/96 Audio Interface, what can I
expect in the way of improvement or worsening of various aspects of the
sound quality? Thanks for the info!
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 8:45:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I am a professional jazz pianist and have been recording music in my
> apartment by feeding the output of a Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer to a
> (no-longer-made) Symetrix 620 A/D converter. If I were to replace BOTH
> of these with a MOTU 828mkII Firewire 24/96 Audio Interface, what can I
> expect in the way of improvement or worsening of various aspects of the
> sound quality? Thanks for the info!

About the same. If you want an improvement you should consider a 2-channel
interface and a decent outboard preamp. DAC quality is not so much an issue
in that price range anymore as long as it is 24/96 capable.
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 11:54:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1105740402.913840.270580@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> abresq@aol.com writes:

> I am a professional jazz pianist and have been recording music in my
> apartment by feeding the output of a Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer to a
> (no-longer-made) Symetrix 620 A/D converter. If I were to replace BOTH
> of these with a MOTU 828mkII Firewire 24/96 Audio Interface, what can I
> expect in the way of improvement or worsening of various aspects of the
> sound quality?

Probably not enough difference to worry about. The Mackie has decent
mic preamps and the Symetrix 620 is a pretty good converter. The MOTU
stuff is OK, but not exceptional. You'd probably get more of a
noticable change (for better or worse, depending on what you're using
now) if you replace your microphones.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
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Anonymous
January 15, 2005 12:11:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

abresq@aol.com wrote:
> I am a professional jazz pianist and have been recording music in my
> apartment by feeding the output of a Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer to a
> (no-longer-made) Symetrix 620 A/D converter. If I were to replace
BOTH
> of these with a MOTU 828mkII Firewire 24/96 Audio Interface, what can
I
> expect in the way of improvement or worsening of various aspects of
the
> sound quality? Thanks for the info!

Well the micpres probably aren't better than the Mackie, but the
MOTU's converters will do 24/96. At 24/96 there is generally less of
a marked difference between the good ones and the cheap ones than there
is between good and cheap converters that only do 16 or 20/48.
However.

If quality is your main concern, the Metric Halo Mobile I/O
firewire interfaces (the 2882 and the UNL2) have 24/96 converters that
sound a _lot_ better than Digi's HD converters ( I compared the MH
2882DSP and the Digi 192 head to head), many opine they easily best
Apogees and everything else in class. Some guys even use the 2882's
internal digital mixer/router instead of their DAWs busses for mixing,
because the Metric Halo's summing buss sounds fabulous - it's _80
bits_ wide.

The ULN2 has a very nice, quiet pair of micpres (4 input unit, 2
analog mic/line and 2 digital) and has separate headphone and monitor
outputs with front panel knobs and presets selection for standalone
operation.There are a versions of both MIO's with built in DSP chips
which they provide plug ins for ( Metric Halo is the maker of the
"Channel Strip"plug in and "SpectraFoo" audio analyser software.) The
2882 has 18 inputs (8 analog), the micpres sound nice but are a bit
noisy for extremely quiet classical recording, but fine for more
pedestrian recording or if you use hot mics.

They do cost bit more than the MOTU's, but if you want quality they
are well worth checking out.

http://mhlabs.com/metric_halo/products/mio/

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News Channel / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 4:51:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Yeah, sorry - forgot to mention: OS is Windows XP. Thanks anyway (or
let me know if you have any Windows-based advice).


WillStG wrote:
> abresq@aol.com wrote:
> > I am a professional jazz pianist and have been recording music in
my
> > apartment by feeding the output of a Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer to a
> > (no-longer-made) Symetrix 620 A/D converter. If I were to replace
> BOTH
> > of these with a MOTU 828mkII Firewire 24/96 Audio Interface, what
can
> I
> > expect in the way of improvement or worsening of various aspects of
> the
> > sound quality? Thanks for the info!
>
> Well the micpres probably aren't better than the Mackie, but the
> MOTU's converters will do 24/96. At 24/96 there is generally less
of
> a marked difference between the good ones and the cheap ones than
there
> is between good and cheap converters that only do 16 or 20/48.
> However.
>
> If quality is your main concern, the Metric Halo Mobile I/O
> firewire interfaces (the 2882 and the UNL2) have 24/96 converters
that
> sound a _lot_ better than Digi's HD converters ( I compared the MH
> 2882DSP and the Digi 192 head to head), many opine they easily best
> Apogees and everything else in class. Some guys even use the 2882's
> internal digital mixer/router instead of their DAWs busses for
mixing,
> because the Metric Halo's summing buss sounds fabulous - it's _80
> bits_ wide.
>
> The ULN2 has a very nice, quiet pair of micpres (4 input unit, 2
> analog mic/line and 2 digital) and has separate headphone and monitor
> outputs with front panel knobs and presets selection for standalone
> operation.There are a versions of both MIO's with built in DSP chips
> which they provide plug ins for ( Metric Halo is the maker of the
> "Channel Strip"plug in and "SpectraFoo" audio analyser software.)
The
> 2882 has 18 inputs (8 analog), the micpres sound nice but are a bit
> noisy for extremely quiet classical recording, but fine for more
> pedestrian recording or if you use hot mics.
>
> They do cost bit more than the MOTU's, but if you want quality they
> are well worth checking out.
>
> http://mhlabs.com/metric_halo/products/mio/
>
> Will Miho
> NY Music & TV Audio Guy
> Staff Audio / Fox News Channel / M-AES
> "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 7:17:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1105809103.879817.20840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> willstg@aol.com writes:

> If quality is your main concern, the Metric Halo Mobile I/O
> firewire interfaces (the 2882 and the UNL2) have 24/96 converters that
> sound a _lot_ better than Digi's HD converters

Yeah, and maybe some day they'll recognize that there are Windows
users out there who'd like to be able to use the MH products without
changing platforms and software. Can Windows Firewire drivers be that
hard to write? Forgive me if this is old data, but for about three
years I asked when the Windows version would be available and it was
always along the line of "We're working on it, but we have other
things in the fire."

Sigh.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 11:27:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

abresq@aol.com wrote:
> Yeah, sorry - forgot to mention: OS is Windows XP. Thanks anyway (or
> let me know if you have any Windows-based advice).


Well, you can use the ULN2 as a stand alone unit, worth the price
as a pair of nice micpres with great A/D converters ... <g>


Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News Channel / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 5:57:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Sugarite wrote:

>WillStG > the Metric Halo's summing buss sounds fabulous - it's _80
bits_ wide.

> What does that have to do with anything? Digital summing is exactly
what it
> seems - mathematical addition - and nothing more. There is no means
to
> improve the sound with a wider bus, as long as it is wide enough for
the
> actual content. That's like saying a calculator that can display 20
digits
> is more accurate than one that can only display 12 digits when adding
10
> 4-digit numbers.
>
> Take the bus width, subtract the audio resolution, and you're left
with a
> binary number indicating how many tracks the bus can accommodate. 80
- 24 =
> 56, so 2^56 represents the number of 24-bit words that can be added
without
> ever exceeding 80 bits. An 80-bit mix bus can handle
72057594037927936
> tracks, which is more than a little superfluous considering that's
more than
> 12 million tracks for every person on earth. However it doesn't
offer any
> sound improvement over a 32-bit bus with a mix of 256 tracks or less
(2^8).
> Any discrepancy between an 80-bit bus and a 32-bit bus is an error.

So... Are you saying an 80 bit buss is not any more precise
than a 32 bit buss, the amount of available resolution that provides is
irrelevant, and that there are not fewer errors as the processing
calculations get rounded off? 32 bits is enough for you and should
be for everyone?

Are you saying the Metric Halo MIO's 80 bit buss has *nothing
whatsoever* to do with them sounding better than their 32 bit buss
competition?

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News Channel / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 7:17:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> the Metric Halo's summing buss sounds fabulous - it's _80 bits_ wide.

What does that have to do with anything? Digital summing is exactly what it
seems - mathematical addition - and nothing more. There is no means to
improve the sound with a wider bus, as long as it is wide enough for the
actual content. That's like saying a calculator that can display 20 digits
is more accurate than one that can only display 12 digits when adding 10
4-digit numbers.

Take the bus width, subtract the audio resolution, and you're left with a
binary number indicating how many tracks the bus can accommodate. 80 - 24 =
56, so 2^56 represents the number of 24-bit words that can be added without
ever exceeding 80 bits. An 80-bit mix bus can handle 72057594037927936
tracks, which is more than a little superfluous considering that's more than
12 million tracks for every person on earth. However it doesn't offer any
sound improvement over a 32-bit bus with a mix of 256 tracks or less (2^8).
Any discrepancy between an 80-bit bus and a 32-bit bus is an error.
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 9:25:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<abresq> wrote:

> I am a professional jazz pianist and have been recording music in my
> apartment by feeding the output of a Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer to a
> (no-longer-made) Symetrix 620 A/D converter. If I were to replace BOTH
> of these with a MOTU 828mkII Firewire 24/96 Audio Interface, what can I
> expect in the way of improvement or worsening of various aspects of the
> sound quality? Thanks for the info!

It'll be about the same. You might take a look and listen to the Metric
Halo ULN2 preamp Firewire interface, or if money is an issue, even Dan
Lavry's little USB preamp, which though only 16 bit is likely to bat
well in the mid-quality league.

--
ha
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 9:08:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike wrote
>Yeah, and maybe some day they'll recognize that there are Windows
>users out there who'd like to be able to use the MH products without
>changing platforms and software. Can Windows Firewire drivers be that
>hard to write? Forgive me if this is old data, but for about three
>years I asked when the Windows version would be available and it was
>always along the line of "We're working on it, but we have other
>things in the fire."

Hmmmm..I have a video editing program and system (Pinnacle) on my PC with a
Firewire interface (PCI card with a few Firewire ports) for the DVD-R.
I'm running it on Windows XP Home, although I've not used the DVD-R yet I have
used the editing program and it work's fine.
!