In 10 years time what RPG's will you still consider classi..

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I was just wondering what CRPG's everyone will reminisce about in years
to come? Baldurs Gate 2 is the game that I think I will have the
fondest memories for. Its a few years old already but I still rate it
as the best CRPG of all time. I must have completed it over a dozen
times with every possible combination of NPC's and playing
characters. I don't think I've completed any other RPG more than
twice.
I loved the story of Planescape Torment more but it didn't have same
replay value as BG2. Other honourable mentions must go to the Gothics,
Morrowind, the Fallouts, Wizardry 8 and going back a few years to the
Eye of the Beholder games.

PS. I never played any Ultima's until recently.

Badbark
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd
have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion."
- Steven Weinberg, Nobel laureate physicist

 

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Fallout 1&2, Deus Ex, and NWN (the fan made modules, not the official
ones).

 

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Definitely the big three for me Baldur's Gate 2, Planescape Torment,
and Wizardry 8. There are other very good ones but these 3 stand out
from the rest in a big way.

 

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Badbark wrote:
> I was just wondering what CRPG's everyone will reminisce about in years
> to come?

[snip]

Of the more recent titles, I'd like to nominate Gothic II (never played
the first).

 

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On 20 Jun 2005 03:37:59 -0700, "Badbark" <badbark@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I was just wondering what CRPG's everyone will reminisce about in years
>to come? Baldurs Gate 2 is the game that I think I will have the
>fondest memories for. Its a few years old already but I still rate it
>as the best CRPG of all time. I must have completed it over a dozen
>times with every possible combination of NPC's and playing
>characters. I don't think I've completed any other RPG more than
>twice.
>I loved the story of Planescape Torment more but it didn't have same
>replay value as BG2. Other honourable mentions must go to the Gothics,
>Morrowind, the Fallouts, Wizardry 8 and going back a few years to the
>Eye of the Beholder games.
>
>PS. I never played any Ultima's until recently.
>
>Badbark
>"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd
>have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
>But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion."
>- Steven Weinberg, Nobel laureate physicist


Yes to those you mentioned, but I would still consider Wasteland a
classic. Also Might & Magic 2 (and 3-5).

 

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Badbark wrote:
> I was just wondering what CRPG's everyone will reminisce about in years
> to come?

Gothic 1+2 (and 3-4 at that time)

> Badbark
> "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd
> have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
> But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion."
> - Steven Weinberg, Nobel laureate physicist
>

waves
Uwe

 

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Thusly "Badbark" <badbark@hotmail.com> Spake Unto All:

>I was just wondering what CRPG's everyone will reminisce about in years
>to come? Baldurs Gate 2 is the game that I think I will have the
>fondest memories for.

Planescape: Torment.

>Its a few years old already but I still rate it
>as the best CRPG of all time.

Oh, you are sadly mistaken - that title of course belongs to
Planescape: Torment.


"We also found that for university students, total time spent in the recent past
on video games has a potential detrimental effect on grades."
-- Anderson & Dill makes a Discovery, in 'Video Games and Aggressive Thoughts,
Feelings, and Behavior in the Laboratory and in Life'. 2004.

 

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On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:17:55 -0400, Big McLargehuge <nomore@spam.com>
wrote:

>On 20 Jun 2005 03:37:59 -0700, "Badbark" <badbark@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I was just wondering what CRPG's everyone will reminisce about in years
>>to come? Baldurs Gate 2 is the game that I think I will have the
>>fondest memories for. Its a few years old already but I still rate it
>>as the best CRPG of all time. I must have completed it over a dozen
>>times with every possible combination of NPC's and playing
>>characters. I don't think I've completed any other RPG more than
>>twice.

Most likely, it's either Diablo or Nethack would be best remembered as a
classic. They both have a large enough fan base that are obscenely loyal
to the game iteself.

>>I loved the story of Planescape Torment more but it didn't have same
>>replay value as BG2. Other honourable mentions must go to the Gothics,
>>Morrowind, the Fallouts, Wizardry 8 and going back a few years to the
>>Eye of the Beholder games.

Eye of the Beholder wasn't as good as it could be - AD&D monsters didn't
work well in that engine. In all three games, it was possible to fake out
most monsters by the same tactic in Dungeon Master - either sidestep, or
move before they attack.

I'd consider DM to be more "classic" then EOB - the game was longer, plenty
of puzzles and traps, and a semi-unique game system. You could still
munchkin the game by attacking thin-air and throwing stuff around, but DM
felt unique enough to be remembered.

>>
>>PS. I never played any Ultima's until recently.
>>
>>Badbark
>>"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd
>>have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
>>But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion."
>>- Steven Weinberg, Nobel laureate physicist
>
>
>Yes to those you mentioned, but I would still consider Wasteland a
>classic. Also Might & Magic 2 (and 3-5).

M&M 3-5 might be a bit old, but I doubt they'll be a true classic. While
the game is rough for low-level characters, it gets increadibly easy in the
late game where your characters have high-enough stats to perform 12
attacks in a combat round (which in turn, means that most monsters get torn
to shreads before they can retaliate.)

It becomes a little anti-climatic when both the final boss or other
extremely powerful monster gets slain instantly. There's also the bug
where some quest items (e.g. the Xeenslayer sword) disappering if you don't
have any inventory space available. Because of this, I'd consider 6 and
later to have a better chance of being a classic.

Post-5 would have a better chance of being remembered as classic, but I
doubt that will survive the test of time.

 

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"Badbark" <badbark@hotmail.com> once tried to test me with:

> I was just wondering what CRPG's everyone will reminisce about in years
> to come? Baldurs Gate 2 is the game that I think I will have the
> fondest memories for. Its a few years old already but I still rate it
> as the best CRPG of all time. I must have completed it over a dozen
> times with every possible combination of NPC's and playing
> characters. I don't think I've completed any other RPG more than
> twice.
> I loved the story of Planescape Torment more but it didn't have same
> replay value as BG2. Other honourable mentions must go to the Gothics,
> Morrowind, the Fallouts, Wizardry 8 and going back a few years to the
> Eye of the Beholder games.

Planescape is my favorite single player RPG but the following I feel in 10
years I'll consider classics:


World of Warcraft
Planescape: Torment
Fallouts
Gothics
Might & Magics
Wizardrys
Ultimas
Betrayal at Krondor
Diablo 2 + LOD

Maybe:
Divine Divinity
IWDs
BGs
NWN
Arx Fatalis

I am sure KOTOR might go on there but I haven't decided if it's classic or
not, just too new to me.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.

 

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On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:48:00 -0400, bk039@ncf.ca (Raymond Martineau)
wrote:


>Eye of the Beholder wasn't as good as it could be - AD&D monsters didn't
>work well in that engine. In all three games, it was possible to fake out
>most monsters by the same tactic in Dungeon Master - either sidestep, or
>move before they attack.
>
>I'd consider DM to be more "classic" then EOB - the game was longer, plenty
>of puzzles and traps, and a semi-unique game system. You could still
>munchkin the game by attacking thin-air and throwing stuff around, but DM
>felt unique enough to be remembered.
>
>>

Dungeon Master (1987) is a classic for one obvious reason; it is the
grand-daddy of first-person color-graphical dungeon romps. With the
very first decent party- and object-handling (and throwing)
mouse-keyboard UI. Emulated in an infinite number of later games
right down to today, including EOB1/2/3. And it had another first to
it on the Commodore-Amiga -- full positional-stereo sound. The first
time I encountered a skeleton hidden around a corner, I almost jumped
out of my chair - both the visual and audio experience. I cannot
recollect whether the Atari-ST version had stereo. And the
fiendishly-logical puzzles. No impossible-to-figure puzzles.. but
there were some tough ones, including some (now standard fare) -like
dropping a rock on a hidden plate ( heard click when you stood there)
to enable another action. That was the time when the PC had just
squeaks and clicks (and monochrome or16-color graphics). Dungeon
Master came on one 880K floppy -but functionally and graphically
astonishing even now- great credit to not only the team at FTL, but
the uniquely powerful Amiga A/V custom chip-set and operating-system.
--

John Lewis

"Technology early-birds always turn out to be flying guinea-pigs"

 

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Another neat feature that Dungeonmaster has and which I don't recall
seeing in other games yet, is that your party members who are in the
rear would actually turn to face the monsters if those monsters have
managed to flank your party. So, you could actually issue combat orders
to the rear members and they would fight while the screen is still
facing forward.

 

[nostromo]

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Thus spake "Volstag" <hawkbeak@hotmail.com>, 20 Jun 2005 14:06:37 -0700,
Anno Domini:

>Badbark wrote:
>> I was just wondering what CRPG's everyone will reminisce about in years
>> to come?
>
>[snip]
>
>Of the more recent titles, I'd like to nominate Gothic II (never played
>the first).

Bzzt! You're all wrong. We will all still be reminiscing about Duke Nukem
Forever in 10 years time. >8^D

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.

 

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Let me preface this with the idea that I am not judging this on games that I
liked but am taking the far stronger stance of a game so good that it was a
classic or eye-opener to me. So, a short list.

Knights of the Old Republic.

Note that I didn't like BG1 and so never played BG2, and that I nominate
this one because it just makes it so easy to plunk a character in and role
play it while following an actual story, unlike a game like Morrowind whose
story is noted as being forgettable at best. KOTOR2 is no where near as
good.

 

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Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> once tried to test me with:

> Bzzt! You're all wrong. We will all still be reminiscing about Duke Nukem
> Forever in 10 years time. >8^D

We'll still be WAITING for DNF in 10 years.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.

 

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Thusly "Allan C Cybulskie" <allan.c.cybulskie@yahoo.ca> Spake Unto
All:

>Note that I didn't like BG1 and so never played BG2, and that I nominate
>this one because it just makes it so easy to plunk a character in and role
>play it while following an actual story, unlike a game like Morrowind whose
>story is noted as being forgettable at best. KOTOR2 is no where near as
>good.

BG1 is a mindless hack-fest, and it turned me off Baldurs Gate for
quite some time too, but BG2 is really much better.

KOTOR2 had promise, with some more complex and some less irritating
npcs than KOTOR1, but the truncated ending and the fact that it was so
derivative makes it pretty bleh, in my opinion. KOTOR1 was great,
though.

"We also found that for university students, total time spent in the recent past
on video games has a potential detrimental effect on grades."
-- Anderson & Dill makes a Discovery, in 'Video Games and Aggressive Thoughts,
Feelings, and Behavior in the Laboratory and in Life'. 2004.

 

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I think Neverwinter Nights will be up there. Not so much for the original
campaign that it came with, but for all the community modules and
persistant worlds. In fact, I'm pretty sure people will still be playing
it ten years after it came out, unless it's replaced by something else
that can use all those resources.


--
chuk

 

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> Dungeon
> Master came on one 880K floppy -but functionally and graphically
> astonishing even now- great credit to not only the team at FTL, but
> the uniquely powerful Amiga A/V custom chip-set and operating-system.

The sad addendum to that is that I was forced to buy my first IBM-PC
when it became apparent that the Amiga's bitplaned video ram and video
architecture was never going to be able to handle (what was then) a high
bandwidth bitmap-transformation intensive texture-mapped 3D game like
Ultima Underworld. Ironically, the inferior (in nearly every other way)
PC VGA architecture was much faster at texture map transformation, not
using bitplanes.

 

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>Dungeon Master came on one 880K floppy -but functionally and graphically
>astonishing even now- great credit to not only the team at FTL, but the
>uniquely powerful Amiga A/V custom chip-set and operating-system.

Except that Dungeon Master was originally an Atari ST game and didn't
take any advantage of the of the Amiga's graphics features. It looked
the same on the Atari ST, Amiga and PC.

mr bernard langham <spam.is.bad@mmkay.com> wrote:
>Ironically, the inferior (in nearly every other way) PC VGA architecture
>was much faster at texture map transformation, not using bitplanes.

The biggest advantage VGA graphics had over the graphics of the Amiga,
and which made the PC a better gaming machine in most people's minds,
was that it supported 256 colour graphics.

Ross Ridge

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/rridge/
db //

 

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On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:56:25 +0000 (UTC), rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
(Ross Ridge) wrote:

>>Dungeon Master came on one 880K floppy -but functionally and graphically
>>astonishing even now- great credit to not only the team at FTL, but the
>>uniquely powerful Amiga A/V custom chip-set and operating-system.
>
>Except that Dungeon Master was originally an Atari ST game and didn't
>take any advantage of the of the Amiga's graphics features. It looked
>the same on the Atari ST, Amiga and PC.
>
>mr bernard langham <spam.is.bad@mmkay.com> wrote:
>>Ironically, the inferior (in nearly every other way) PC VGA architecture
>>was much faster at texture map transformation, not using bitplanes.
>
>The biggest advantage VGA graphics had over the graphics of the Amiga,
>and which made the PC a better gaming machine in most people's minds,
>was that it supported 256 colour graphics.
>

In 1987 ?????

Amiga was 64-colour at that time. VGA was only introduced to the PC
that year. In 1987, existing color PCs were 16-color EGA.

John Lewis

> Ross Ridge
>
>--
> l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
>[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
>-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/rridge/
> db //

--

John Lewis

"Technology early-birds always turn out to be flying guinea-pigs"

 

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On 20 Jun 2005 03:37:59 -0700, "Badbark" <badbark@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I was just wondering what CRPG's everyone will reminisce about in years
>to come? Baldurs Gate 2 is the game that I think I will have the
>fondest memories for. Its a few years old already but I still rate it
>as the best CRPG of all time. I must have completed it over a dozen
>times with every possible combination of NPC's and playing
>characters. I don't think I've completed any other RPG more than
>twice.
>I loved the story of Planescape Torment more but it didn't have same
>replay value as BG2. Other honourable mentions must go to the Gothics,
>Morrowind, the Fallouts, Wizardry 8 and going back a few years to the
>Eye of the Beholder games.
>
>PS. I never played any Ultima's until recently.
>
>Badbark
>"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd
>have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
>But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion."
>- Steven Weinberg, Nobel laureate physicist

KOTOR
Baldur's Gate
NWN

of course in 10yrs you'll be hard pushed to get any of these to run on
a PC (whatever they'll look like in 2015)

toadie

 

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dangtranvu@netscape.net schrieb:
> Another neat feature that Dungeonmaster has and which I don't recall
> seeing in other games yet, is that your party members who are in the
> rear would actually turn to face the monsters if those monsters have
> managed to flank your party. So, you could actually issue combat orders
> to the rear members and they would fight while the screen is still
> facing forward.
>

Wizardry 8 behaves in the same way. You must equip your party members
who are in the rear with long range weapons, otherwise they can only
attack the enemies who are trying to flank you.

-Niels-

 

[sToic]

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On 20 Jun 2005 03:37:59 -0700, "Badbark" <badbark@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I was just wondering what CRPG's everyone will reminisce about in years
>to come?

System Shock 2

 

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Thusly rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) Spake Unto All:

>The biggest advantage VGA graphics had over the graphics of the Amiga,
>and which made the PC a better gaming machine in most people's minds,
>was that it supported 256 colour graphics.

....whereas the Amiga only could run in 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, and 4096
colors. The Amiga actually had more colors than the early VGA
machines. Plus that the later models also had 256 color modes.

The OP is right, it was the poor 3D performance that killed off the
Amiga. A gaming platform without games like Wolfenstein, Ultima
Underworld and Doom was, well, doomed.
The poor 3D performance, in turn, was caused by (intentionally?)
criminally negligent management at Commodore.

> Ross Ridge

"We also found that for university students, total time spent in the recent past
on video games has a potential detrimental effect on grades."
-- Anderson & Dill makes a Discovery, in 'Video Games and Aggressive Thoughts,
Feelings, and Behavior in the Laboratory and in Life'. 2004.

 

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On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:50:28 +0200, Mean_Chlorine
<mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Thusly rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) Spake Unto All:
>
>>The biggest advantage VGA graphics had over the graphics of the Amiga,
>>and which made the PC a better gaming machine in most people's minds,
>>was that it supported 256 colour graphics.
>
>...whereas the Amiga only could run in 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, and 4096
>colors. The Amiga actually had more colors than the early VGA
>machines. Plus that the later models also had 256 color modes.
>
>The OP is right, it was the poor 3D performance that killed off the
>Amiga.

I wouldn't say that's the cause, as 3D renderers at the time relied on
processor power rather than graphics accelleration.

Wolf 3D required a 286 clocked to 12Mhz, as it needed to process an entire
~320x~160 each 20th of a second. The most common Amiga models were clocked
to 7.14Mhz, below the clock-speed requirements for these games.

Graphics wise, the Amiga can render 3D environments with acceptable speed -
as an example, either Stunt Car Racer or Interphase (both semi-obsure
games.)

While Amigas might have difficulty rendering textured environments as in
Wolf 3D or Ultima Underworld, so did other computers during that time - in
the case of the former, only the fastest of computers could draw the screen
at maximum size. In the case of the latter, the view distance was short
and the render window was small, both of which cut down on render time.

BTW, Wolf3D and UU were games on a 2D map. Algorithms and hacks are easily
available to cut down on rendering time.

>The poor 3D performance, in turn, was caused by (intentionally?)
>criminally negligent management at Commodore.

No, Commodore just simply gave up in the computer hardware business. While
their Commodore 64 and Amiga were successful enough, they did not release a
truly updated computer that improved the specifications of the computer.

Also, Wolf3D was generally large enough to require more than one floppy to
install. It would definatly not work in a normal Amiga envrionment, which
is mainly centered around floppy disks. (HDs at the time were much more
rare.)

 

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In article <42b6d410$0$34770$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>,
koh@gmx.net says...
> Badbark wrote:
> > I was just wondering what CRPG's everyone will reminisce about in years
> > to come?
>

TOP 10:

Planescape: Torment (PC)
Ultima Underworld (PC)
Final Fantasy J3 aka US6 (SNES)
Chrono Cross (SNES)
Fallout (PC)
Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
World of Warcraft (PC)
Arx Fatalis (PC)
Gothic 2 (PC)
Betrayal at Krondor (PC)