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Backing up Planescape Torment savegames

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June 20, 2005 7:15:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

I'm about to move computers, so I need to backup my PS:T savegames. I've
patched PS:T and added in the 3rd-party "improvement" patch, too.

I've also copied the contents of the CDRoms into the directory so I
don't have to diskswap.

Do you think I'll be safe to copy the whole c:\program files\blackIsle
directory to my new computer?

Does PS:T store any other files anywhere else on the hard disk? In the
registry?

I really don't want to lose my progress in the game.

--
Toby.
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
field to circumvent my email filters.
Ignore any mail delivery error.
June 20, 2005 7:15:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

All you will need to copy over is the contents of the save folder.

The steps you need to do are:
1. Install PS:T on your new machine (from the original CDROMs)
2. Patch it up to the same standard as your old PC (by running downloaded
patches, not by copying stuff from your old PC)
3. then copy the save folder from your old PC onto your new PC.

And that'll sort it.

Good luck
NvR

"Toby" <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message
news:slrndbdjrv.tkr.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
> I'm about to move computers, so I need to backup my PS:T savegames. I've
> patched PS:T and added in the 3rd-party "improvement" patch, too.
>
> I've also copied the contents of the CDRoms into the directory so I
> don't have to diskswap.
>
> Do you think I'll be safe to copy the whole c:\program files\blackIsle
> directory to my new computer?
>
> Does PS:T store any other files anywhere else on the hard disk? In the
> registry?
>
> I really don't want to lose my progress in the game.
>
> --
> Toby.
> Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
> field to circumvent my email filters.
> Ignore any mail delivery error.
June 20, 2005 8:19:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-06-20, Marie <somewhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
> All you will need to copy over is the contents of the save folder.
>
> The steps you need to do are:
> 1. Install PS:T on your new machine (from the original CDROMs)
> 2. Patch it up to the same standard as your old PC (by running downloaded
> patches, not by copying stuff from your old PC)
> 3. then copy the save folder from your old PC onto your new PC.
>
> And that'll sort it.
>
> Good luck
> NvR
>
> "Toby" <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message
> news:slrndbdjrv.tkr.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
>> I'm about to move computers, so I need to backup my PS:T savegames. I've
>> patched PS:T and added in the 3rd-party "improvement" patch, too.
>>
>> I've also copied the contents of the CDRoms into the directory so I
>> don't have to diskswap.
>>
>> Do you think I'll be safe to copy the whole c:\program files\blackIsle
>> directory to my new computer?
>>
>> Does PS:T store any other files anywhere else on the hard disk? In the
>> registry?
>>
>> I really don't want to lose my progress in the game.
>>
>

Are you *sure*? I only ask because I tried it that way a few years ago
and ended up with a broken savegame. Maybe something else caused it, but
I got the impression that I should have copied some of the files from
the directory above savegame.

Looking in there, I can see that Torment.err, Torment.log and
Torment.ini have all been modified when I played it earlier.
There's new files in the Cache folder from today, too.

An academic argument, because I'm going to copy the whole \BlackIsle
directory, but I don't want someone to make the same mistake I did in
the future.


--
Toby.
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
field to circumvent my email filters.
Ignore any mail delivery error.
Related resources
June 20, 2005 8:19:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Toby" <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message
news:slrndbdnj6.tkr.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
> On 2005-06-20, Marie <somewhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> All you will need to copy over is the contents of the save folder.
>>
>> The steps you need to do are:
>> 1. Install PS:T on your new machine (from the original CDROMs)
>> 2. Patch it up to the same standard as your old PC (by running downloaded
>> patches, not by copying stuff from your old PC)
>> 3. then copy the save folder from your old PC onto your new PC.
>>
>> And that'll sort it.
>>
>> Good luck
>> NvR
>>
>> "Toby" <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message
>> news:slrndbdjrv.tkr.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
>>> I'm about to move computers, so I need to backup my PS:T savegames. I've
>>> patched PS:T and added in the 3rd-party "improvement" patch, too.
>>>
>>> I've also copied the contents of the CDRoms into the directory so I
>>> don't have to diskswap.
>>>
>>> Do you think I'll be safe to copy the whole c:\program files\blackIsle
>>> directory to my new computer?
>>>
>>> Does PS:T store any other files anywhere else on the hard disk? In the
>>> registry?
>>>
>>> I really don't want to lose my progress in the game.
>>>
>>
>
> Are you *sure*? I only ask because I tried it that way a few years ago
> and ended up with a broken savegame. Maybe something else caused it, but
> I got the impression that I should have copied some of the files from
> the directory above savegame.
>
> Looking in there, I can see that Torment.err, Torment.log and
> Torment.ini have all been modified when I played it earlier.
> There's new files in the Cache folder from today, too.
>
> An academic argument, because I'm going to copy the whole \BlackIsle
> directory, but I don't want someone to make the same mistake I did in
> the future.
>
>

Just try it. As long as you don't lose your original on the old PC then
there's nothing to lose.
June 22, 2005 1:19:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Toby" <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message
news:slrndbdnj6.tkr.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
> On 2005-06-20, Marie <somewhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> All you will need to copy over is the contents of the save folder.
>>
>> The steps you need to do are:
>> 1. Install PS:T on your new machine (from the original CDROMs)
>> 2. Patch it up to the same standard as your old PC (by running downloaded
>> patches, not by copying stuff from your old PC)
>> 3. then copy the save folder from your old PC onto your new PC.
>>
>> And that'll sort it.
>>
>> Good luck
>> NvR
>>
>> "Toby" <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message
>> news:slrndbdjrv.tkr.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
>>> I'm about to move computers, so I need to backup my PS:T savegames. I've
>>> patched PS:T and added in the 3rd-party "improvement" patch, too.
>>>
>>> I've also copied the contents of the CDRoms into the directory so I
>>> don't have to diskswap.
>>>
>>> Do you think I'll be safe to copy the whole c:\program files\blackIsle
>>> directory to my new computer?
>>>
>>> Does PS:T store any other files anywhere else on the hard disk? In the
>>> registry?
>>>
>>> I really don't want to lose my progress in the game.
>>>
>>
>
> Are you *sure*? I only ask because I tried it that way a few years ago
> and ended up with a broken savegame. Maybe something else caused it, but
> I got the impression that I should have copied some of the files from
> the directory above savegame.
>
> Looking in there, I can see that Torment.err, Torment.log and
> Torment.ini have all been modified when I played it earlier.
> There's new files in the Cache folder from today, too.
>
> An academic argument, because I'm going to copy the whole \BlackIsle
> directory, but I don't want someone to make the same mistake I did in
> the future.
>

I guarantee this wont work. Programs have to be installed correctly
not just copied.

Do as Marie suggested.

Regards
June 22, 2005 1:32:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-06-22, Terry <terry@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> "Toby" <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message
> news:slrndbdnj6.tkr.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
>> On 2005-06-20, Marie <somewhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> All you will need to copy over is the contents of the save folder.
>>>
>>> The steps you need to do are:
>>> 1. Install PS:T on your new machine (from the original CDROMs)
>>> 2. Patch it up to the same standard as your old PC (by running downloaded
>>> patches, not by copying stuff from your old PC)
>>> 3. then copy the save folder from your old PC onto your new PC.
>>>
>>> And that'll sort it.
>>>
>>> Good luck
>>> NvR
>>>
>>> "Toby" <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message
>>> news:slrndbdjrv.tkr.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
>>>> I'm about to move computers, so I need to backup my PS:T savegames. I've
>>>> patched PS:T and added in the 3rd-party "improvement" patch, too.
>>>>
>>>> I've also copied the contents of the CDRoms into the directory so I
>>>> don't have to diskswap.
>>>>
>>>> Do you think I'll be safe to copy the whole c:\program files\blackIsle
>>>> directory to my new computer?
>>>>
>>>> Does PS:T store any other files anywhere else on the hard disk? In the
>>>> registry?
>>>>
>>>> I really don't want to lose my progress in the game.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> Are you *sure*? I only ask because I tried it that way a few years ago
>> and ended up with a broken savegame. Maybe something else caused it, but
>> I got the impression that I should have copied some of the files from
>> the directory above savegame.
>>
>> Looking in there, I can see that Torment.err, Torment.log and
>> Torment.ini have all been modified when I played it earlier.
>> There's new files in the Cache folder from today, too.
>>
>> An academic argument, because I'm going to copy the whole \BlackIsle
>> directory, but I don't want someone to make the same mistake I did in
>> the future.
>>
>
> I guarantee this wont work. Programs have to be installed correctly
> not just copied.
>
> Do as Marie suggested.
>

I know that, as a rule, but PS:T is a pretty old game. Fwiw, I tried
playing the copied directory today, and was able to load my savegames. I
played for a bit, and saved (under a new savegame!). Seems okay.

--
Toby.
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
field to circumvent my email filters.
Ignore any mail delivery error.
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 1:37:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Toby <google@asktoby.com> wrote:
> I know that, as a rule, but PS:T is a pretty old game. Fwiw, I tried
> playing the copied directory today, and was able to load my savegames. I
> played for a bit, and saved (under a new savegame!). Seems okay.

I can verify that BG2, BG1 and IWD2 (all of which use the Infinity Engine,
like PST) will all work fine if you just "copy the entire directory" from
one computer to another (I do it to save time when upgrading laptops).
While the installation procedures do set registry keys (to point to where
the game is installed), the games work just fine if those keys are unset
(if you run the game out of the directory). You shouldn't run into any
problems.

- Wes
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 2:23:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Westley Weimer" <weimer@argus.EECS.Berkeley.EDU> wrote in message
news:D 9cln6$ud8$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
> Toby <google@asktoby.com> wrote:
>> I know that, as a rule, but PS:T is a pretty old game. Fwiw, I tried
>> playing the copied directory today, and was able to load my savegames. I
>> played for a bit, and saved (under a new savegame!). Seems okay.
>
> I can verify that BG2, BG1 and IWD2 (all of which use the Infinity Engine,
> like PST) will all work fine if you just "copy the entire directory" from
> one computer to another (I do it to save time when upgrading laptops).
> While the installation procedures do set registry keys (to point to where
> the game is installed), the games work just fine if those keys are unset
> (if you run the game out of the directory). You shouldn't run into any
> problems.
>
> - Wes

Well this may work for the infinity engine but it is bad practice and should
be discouraged. Many pieces of software just assume that the registry keys
are present and that they can be changed without checking. It seems to me
that this could cause a registry corruption that may knock onto other parts
of the PC.
It's not worth the risk.

NvR
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 3:49:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"NovaRat" <somewhere@nowhere.com> once tried to test me with:

> Well this may work for the infinity engine but it is bad practice and
> should be discouraged. Many pieces of software just assume that the
> registry keys are present and that they can be changed without
> checking. It seems to me that this could cause a registry corruption
> that may knock onto other parts of the PC.
> It's not worth the risk.

Um, no. writing into the registry isn't done by blind addresses. The
program would look for the registry key and when it wasn't there, either
put a new one in, or just work without it. You have zero chance of
corrupting the registry by just copying a game to a new PC and running it.
Some games will work, others will not, but it isn't going to screw up
anything not related to that game.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
June 23, 2005 11:10:15 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"NovaRat" <somewhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:Jxlue.887$z61.643@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Westley Weimer" <weimer@argus.EECS.Berkeley.EDU> wrote in message
> news:D 9cln6$ud8$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
>> Toby <google@asktoby.com> wrote:
>>> I know that, as a rule, but PS:T is a pretty old game. Fwiw, I tried
>>> playing the copied directory today, and was able to load my savegames. I
>>> played for a bit, and saved (under a new savegame!). Seems okay.
>>
>> I can verify that BG2, BG1 and IWD2 (all of which use the Infinity
>> Engine,
>> like PST) will all work fine if you just "copy the entire directory" from
>> one computer to another (I do it to save time when upgrading laptops).
>> While the installation procedures do set registry keys (to point to where
>> the game is installed), the games work just fine if those keys are unset
>> (if you run the game out of the directory). You shouldn't run into any
>> problems.
>>
>> - Wes
>
> Well this may work for the infinity engine but it is bad practice and
> should be discouraged. Many pieces of software just assume that the
> registry keys are present and that they can be changed without checking.
> It seems to me that this could cause a registry corruption that may knock
> onto other parts of the PC.
> It's not worth the risk.
>
> NvR
>
Agreed.

Regards
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 12:42:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly "Terry" <terry@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> Spake Unto All:

>> It's not worth the risk.

>Agreed.

Nonsense. As for PS:T, the game will work just fine by just copying
the save directory. As for other games/apps, they may work or they may
not, but they will not screw up your registry.


"We also found that for university students, total time spent in the recent past
on video games has a potential detrimental effect on grades."
-- Anderson & Dill makes a Discovery, in 'Video Games and Aggressive Thoughts,
Feelings, and Behavior in the Laboratory and in Life'. 2004.
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 2:26:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Geez. Look, 3 people have disagreed with you on this. Where did you get
the idea that just copying a program to a different PC can corrupt your
registery? Whoever gave you that information was wrong. It just. won't.
happen. Some (most) games will work by doing this. Others will not.
But none of them are going to trash your PC even if they don't work.
I've had a lot of experience with this over the years by upgrading PCs
and transfering games from the old system to the new. And I actually do
know what I'm talking about here. A *few* games do not work when you do
this. But most do. Worst case scenario is the game doesn't work and you
reinstall it.
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 1:03:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Geez. Look, 3 people have disagreed with you on this. Where did you get
>the idea that just copying a program to a different PC can corrupt your
>registery? Whoever gave you that information was wrong. It just. won't.
>happen. Some (most) games will work by doing this. Others will not.
>But none of them are going to trash your PC even if they don't work.

From the sounds of it, Terry is one of those people to whom the computer
is one step away from magic.
He doesn't know what the bits do or how they interact, and he's entirely
incapable of diagnosing a problem, so doing it the "proper" way is the
only way to avoid insurmountable problems (for him).

This type of person will believe _anything_ they're told by someone who
seems to know more than they do.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's the type who formats his
harddrive to remove a virus too.

>I've had a lot of experience with this over the years by upgrading PCs
>and transfering games from the old system to the new. And I actually do
>know what I'm talking about here. A *few* games do not work when you do
>this. But most do. Worst case scenario is the game doesn't work and you
>reinstall it.

Pity he doesn't seem to understand that lots of games STILL don't use
the registry heavily or care at all if the registry entries are there at
all.
[Oh yeah, I keep forgetting, touching the registry is like voodoo to
some people.]

Even then it's child's play to archive up a game directory AND extract
the relevant registry entries for those games that require them.

The only time he might possibly be remotely correct is those few games
that stick _files_ elsewhere (windows or system directory usually) so
you won't have copied those to the new machine. These seem to be a
dying fad.

Heck, I moved the whole wildtangent/fate installation from c: to m: and
changed the relevant registry entries - it still worked perfectly.


Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 5:13:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article <dmCue.1143$BD2.465@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>,
somewhere@nowhere.com says...

> Obviously my ass must be more knowledgeable than yours. Let me explain.
> When I wrote the above I was not referring to Windows per se but to the
> fallable software authors who use it. Yes, Windows will throw an exception
> if you try to write or access an invalid key but that's worth doodlesquat
> unless the programmer writes some worthwhile code to handle said exception.
> If the catch code for the exception is null - and there are lots and lots of
> lazy software writers out there who leave it null - then subsequent code
> that blindly assumes that the last registry access was successful could go
> barging ahead and write further (valid) dross anywhere they see fit.
> A nicely bloated registry is all you need to slow down a PC.
> NvR

You are either frantically trying to dig yourself out of a hole, or
simply demonstrating your ignorance.

Trying to open a non-existent key will NOT throw an exception of any
kind. Both the C API and the C++ MFC wrappers for the relevant
functions return an error code if the functions fail. They will also
return an invalid handle. Writing to such a handle will do nothing
(except give more errors, which will be handled or ignored as the
programmer sees fit).

If programs are incorrectly programmed they can do various things,
including writing or deleting data in the registry or elsewhere. The
scenario where a lot of random data is written to the registry is
extremely unlikely though, simply because you don't get valid keys by
accident. (For the same reason, if a program starts writing lots of
garbage to disk, it was usually working when it opened the file, and
went wrong after.)

The non-existence of a registry key will normally mean that well-
programmed software will operate with default values, and ill-programed
software will operate with random values that happened to be in memory
when the failed access occurred. This will cause unpredictable
operation that is unlikely to be anything to do with the registry.

So even the scenario of 'registry bloat', the tired last resort of
every anti-MSer who can't find anything better to complain about, isn't
likely. Even if by some bizarre chance it wrote what it intended to
somewhere in the registry, it won't write any more than it would have
written in the first plsce.

- Gerry Quinn
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 7:42:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> Spake Unto All:

>From the sounds of it, Terry is one of those people to whom the computer
>is one step away from magic.

He considers it an insufficiently advanced technology?


--
"We also found that for university students, total time spent in the recent past
on video games has a potential detrimental effect on grades."
-- Anderson & Dill makes a Discovery, in 'Video Games and Aggressive Thoughts,
Feelings, and Behavior in the Laboratory and in Life'. 2004.
June 24, 2005 9:39:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Xocyll" <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote in message
news:0m0ob19b7jqqiat4aod2eqsc0p697k0aot@4ax.com...
> "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
> the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>Geez. Look, 3 people have disagreed with you on this. Where did you get
>>the idea that just copying a program to a different PC can corrupt your
>>registery? Whoever gave you that information was wrong. It just. won't.
>>happen. Some (most) games will work by doing this. Others will not.
>>But none of them are going to trash your PC even if they don't work.
>
> From the sounds of it, Terry is one of those people to whom the computer
> is one step away from magic.
> He doesn't know what the bits do or how they interact, and he's entirely
> incapable of diagnosing a problem, so doing it the "proper" way is the
> only way to avoid insurmountable problems (for him).
>
> This type of person will believe _anything_ they're told by someone who
> seems to know more than they do.
>
> I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's the type who formats his
> harddrive to remove a virus too.
>

LOL
Interesting observation. I have been writing software for 40 years and
writing
applications for the PC for the last 25 years. I know the PC inside and out.

Your knowledge ????? - obviously very little about PCs

Regards
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 1:41:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Terry" <terry@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>
>"Xocyll" <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote in message
>news:0m0ob19b7jqqiat4aod2eqsc0p697k0aot@4ax.com...
>> "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
>> the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>>>Geez. Look, 3 people have disagreed with you on this. Where did you get
>>>the idea that just copying a program to a different PC can corrupt your
>>>registery? Whoever gave you that information was wrong. It just. won't.
>>>happen. Some (most) games will work by doing this. Others will not.
>>>But none of them are going to trash your PC even if they don't work.
>>
>> From the sounds of it, Terry is one of those people to whom the computer
>> is one step away from magic.
>> He doesn't know what the bits do or how they interact, and he's entirely
>> incapable of diagnosing a problem, so doing it the "proper" way is the
>> only way to avoid insurmountable problems (for him).
>>
>> This type of person will believe _anything_ they're told by someone who
>> seems to know more than they do.
>>
>> I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's the type who formats his
>> harddrive to remove a virus too.
>>
>
>LOL
>Interesting observation. I have been writing software for 40 years and
>writing
>applications for the PC for the last 25 years. I know the PC inside and out.
>
>Your knowledge ????? - obviously very little about PCs

ROFL

You _guarantee_ programs will not work when copied, yet you supposedly
have 40+ years experience with computers.

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 1:47:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> looked up from reading
the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the
signs say:

>Thusly Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> Spake Unto All:
>
>>From the sounds of it, Terry is one of those people to whom the computer
>>is one step away from magic.
>
>He considers it an insufficiently advanced technology?

I was thinking more the superstitious peasant view of magic, that's it's
not only something they don't understand, it's somehow inherently
impossible for them to understand, so there's no point in trying.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 9:09:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> Spake Unto All:

>>>From the sounds of it, Terry is one of those people to whom the computer
>>>is one step away from magic.
>>
>>He considers it an insufficiently advanced technology?
>
>I was thinking more the superstitious peasant view of magic, that's it's
>not only something they don't understand, it's somehow inherently
>impossible for them to understand, so there's no point in trying.

Oh. Like me and cricket.

>Xocyll

--
"We also found that for university students, total time spent in the recent past
on video games has a potential detrimental effect on grades."
-- Anderson & Dill makes a Discovery, in 'Video Games and Aggressive Thoughts,
Feelings, and Behavior in the Laboratory and in Life'. 2004.
!