Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Help with DAT Tape

Last response: in Home Audio
Share
Anonymous
January 19, 2005 3:02:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I found a box of these tapes for sale at th local pawn shop:
Maxell HS4/120S Helical Scan 4mm Data Cartridge

The owner insists that they can be used in audio DAT machines (I use a Fostex D5) but they say data cartridge on them.

Any thoughts on their intended use.
He wants $5 for the box of ten but I don't need yet another item hanging around I can't use.

Thanks


--------------= Posted using GrabIt =----------------
------= Binary Usenet downloading made easy =---------
-= Get GrabIt for free from http://www.shemes.com/ =-

More about : dat tape

Anonymous
January 19, 2005 3:12:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <10ut4o0te7ch7b6@corp.supernews.com>, Gene Poole <me@you.com> wrote:
>I found a box of these tapes for sale at th local pawn shop:
>Maxell HS4/120S Helical Scan 4mm Data Cartridge

That's a 120 meter tape.

>The owner insists that they can be used in audio DAT machines (I use a Fostex D5) but they say data cartridge on them.

The 60 meter data tape are just fine for audio machines. The 90m and 120m
tapes will occasionally work on some machines but will not be reliable because
the tape is so thin. Some people use them anyway because they need the longer
running times for logging applications and don't mind the dropouts.

>Any thoughts on their intended use.

They are intended for use in DDS computer drives.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
January 19, 2005 8:58:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:02:48 -0500, Gene Poole wrote:

> I found a box of these tapes for sale at th local pawn shop:
> Maxell HS4/120S Helical Scan 4mm Data Cartridge
>
> The owner insists that they can be used in audio DAT machines (I use a Fostex D5) but they say data cartridge on them.
>
> Any thoughts on their intended use.
> He wants $5 for the box of ten but I don't need yet another item hanging around I can't use.
>
> Thanks

It has nothing to do with the *data* part but with the length.

I believe the D5 is the same as a Tascam Da-20 (Pioneer transport?) and I
can tell you for a fact that the 90 meter tapes will NOT work reliably
with my machine.
I wouldn't even try the 120's.

Find yourself a pile of 60m tapes and you will be fine.
Related resources
Anonymous
January 19, 2005 11:42:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I use branded DATA Cartridges all the time in my fostex D5 but only for
rough mixes and drafts. So far I have not had any problems and I find the
long recording times convenient...
For final mixes I use only proper DAT tapes.


"Gene Poole" <me@you.com> wrote in message
news:10ut4o0te7ch7b6@corp.supernews.com...
> I found a box of these tapes for sale at th local pawn shop:
> Maxell HS4/120S Helical Scan 4mm Data Cartridge
>
> The owner insists that they can be used in audio DAT machines (I use a
Fostex D5) but they say data cartridge on them.
>
> Any thoughts on their intended use.
> He wants $5 for the box of ten but I don't need yet another item hanging
around I can't use.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> --------------= Posted using GrabIt =----------------
> ------= Binary Usenet downloading made easy =---------
> -= Get GrabIt for free from http://www.shemes.com/ =-
>
Anonymous
January 20, 2005 3:44:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <10ut4o0te7ch7b6@corp.supernews.com> me@you.com writes:

> I found a box of these tapes for sale at th local pawn shop:
> Maxell HS4/120S Helical Scan 4mm Data Cartridge
>
> The owner insists that they can be used in audio DAT machines (I use a Fostex
> D5) but they say data cartridge on them.

I'd be suspicious that the "120" in the type number is 120 meters. A
standard DAT - digital AUDIO tape - is 60 meters and to make a longer
tape, they make it thinner. The thin tape doesn't work very well (or
at all) in many DAT decks.

But for five bucks for the box you can give it a try and if they don't
work in your machine, you can put them up for sale on eBay, advertise
them as "long play DAT tape" and probalby get $5 a piece for them. If
you didn't know about the thinner tape, chances are there are plenty
of others who don't, too.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 20, 2005 3:44:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I used some of the Maxell 120 meter tapes in my Fostex PD-2 and Fostex PD-4
and never had an issue with drop outs or higher than normal corrected
errors. I used them for two-track reference mixes when multi-tracking live
music in clubs. One tape for the whole night. My normal DAT tape of choice
for location-sound dialog recording (my main gig) has been Maxell Pro 124's
(125's) for many many years now and I've also never had an issue. I would
recommend exercising the tape once before recording...especially with the
longer data tapes.

Charles Tomaras
Seattle, WA

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1106170390k@trad...
>
> In article <10ut4o0te7ch7b6@corp.supernews.com> me@you.com writes:
>
>> I found a box of these tapes for sale at th local pawn shop:
>> Maxell HS4/120S Helical Scan 4mm Data Cartridge
>>
>> The owner insists that they can be used in audio DAT machines (I use a
>> Fostex
>> D5) but they say data cartridge on them.
>
> I'd be suspicious that the "120" in the type number is 120 meters. A
> standard DAT - digital AUDIO tape - is 60 meters and to make a longer
> tape, they make it thinner. The thin tape doesn't work very well (or
> at all) in many DAT decks.
>
> But for five bucks for the box you can give it a try and if they don't
> work in your machine, you can put them up for sale on eBay, advertise
> them as "long play DAT tape" and probalby get $5 a piece for them. If
> you didn't know about the thinner tape, chances are there are plenty
> of others who don't, too.
>
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 20, 2005 3:44:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1106170390k@trad...
>
> In article <10ut4o0te7ch7b6@corp.supernews.com> me@you.com writes:
>
>> I found a box of these tapes for sale at th local pawn shop:
>> Maxell HS4/120S Helical Scan 4mm Data Cartridge
>>
>> The owner insists that they can be used in audio DAT machines (I use a
>> Fostex
>> D5) but they say data cartridge on them.
>
> I'd be suspicious that the "120" in the type number is 120 meters. A
> standard DAT - digital AUDIO tape - is 60 meters and to make a longer
> tape, they make it thinner. The thin tape doesn't work very well (or
> at all) in many DAT decks.
>
> But for five bucks for the box you can give it a try and if they don't
> work in your machine, you can put them up for sale on eBay, advertise
> them as "long play DAT tape" and probalby get $5 a piece for them. If
> you didn't know about the thinner tape, chances are there are plenty
> of others who don't, too.
>
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Tascam particularly warns against the use of 120 meter tape in the DA-P1
portable recorder.

George
Anonymous
January 20, 2005 8:32:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 19 Jan 2005 12:12:51 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>The 60 meter data tape are just fine for audio machines. The 90m and 120m
>tapes will occasionally work on some machines but will not be reliable because
>the tape is so thin. Some people use them anyway because they need the longer
>running times for logging applications and don't mind the dropouts.
>

I have used ONLY 90 meter tapes in a Sony portable M1 (with playback
mostly in a Sony R500 full size deck) for five years, probably around
500 tapes, and so far as I can see (sound, error count) have NEVER
had a problem from tape, and normal servicing of my machines
at ProDigital with no special or unusual wear to the transport. If
that's not reliable, I'd like to know what is.

Jeff
Anonymous
January 20, 2005 1:52:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <39OdnUyY5-MEwnLcRVn-iQ@comcast.com> tomaras@tomaras.com writes:

> I used some of the Maxell 120 meter tapes in my Fostex PD-2 and Fostex PD-4
> and never had an issue with drop outs or higher than normal corrected
> errors.

You were lucky. The problem with the thin tape isn't with errors or
dropouts, it's with the mechanics of the transport. There are holes in
the shell of the cassette that identify what it is, and DAT data
drives have sensors to read those holes. DAT audio drives do not. A
data drive will sense that it's thin tape and reduce the tension so
that it doesn't jam in the transport.

Some audio transports are tolerant of thin tape, some can be adjusted
to use it (but then they don't work right with standard DAT
cassettes), and I've even heard a case or two back when I followed the
DAT-Heads mailing list where guides were bent and had to be replaced
after untangling a thin tape.

If you hunt up and search through the archives of the DAT-Heads list
(just search Google for "DAT-Heads" you'll see what machines have been
reported to work smoothly with thin tape and which you shouldn't use
it at all. Long tapes were very popular with the Deadhead tapers since
the Grateful Dead often did sets longer than two hours.

I don't remember if I or someone else mentioned it, but 90 meter (3
hour audio recording) data tape almost always works in almost all DAT
recorders. It's the same thickness as the audio-only tape, just more
of it loaded into the cassette.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 20, 2005 6:08:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>In article <10ut4o0te7ch7b6@corp.supernews.com>, Gene Poole <me@you.com> wrote:
>>I found a box of these tapes for sale at th local pawn shop:
>>Maxell HS4/120S Helical Scan 4mm Data Cartridge
>
>That's a 120 meter tape.

Which is 4 hours recording time.
>
>>The owner insists that they can be used in audio DAT machines (I use a Fostex D5) but they say data cartridge on them.
>
>The 60 meter data tape are just fine for audio machines. The 90m and 120m
>tapes will occasionally work on some machines but will not be reliable because
>the tape is so thin. Some people use them anyway because they need the longer
>running times for logging applications and don't mind the dropouts.

About 10 years ago 90m tape became available and DAT decks developed
since 1995 should inquire the index hole for thin tape in the cartridge
and adjust the mechanics for that. If the deck calculates the remaining
time correctly it should be fit for 90m tapes.

If the deck is not fit for thin tapes it will calculate the tape tension
wrongly which results in slightly higher head wear - not immediately
noticable.

120m tapes are a different story however.

>>Any thoughts on their intended use.
>
>They are intended for use in DDS computer drives.

As both 90m and 120m tapes have the "thin tape" marker set in the
cartridge while 120m tape are thinner than 90m tapes the manufacturers
added a bar code on the back of the tape leader. The bar code tells
a DDS drive the correct thickness/length of the tape. Unfortunately
DAT drives cannot read the bar code and thusly use the wrong tape
tension for 120m tapes. So - most likely - it will work but too high
a tension is a stress for both the tape and the mechanics.

Norbert
Anonymous
January 20, 2005 7:42:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
"geoley" <geoley@covad.net> wrote in message
news:50ec1$41ef6341$43656324$9390@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>
> "Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
> news:znr1106170390k@trad...
> >
> > In article <10ut4o0te7ch7b6@corp.supernews.com> me@you.com writes:
> >
> >> I found a box of these tapes for sale at th local pawn shop:
> >> Maxell HS4/120S Helical Scan 4mm Data Cartridge
> >>
> >> The owner insists that they can be used in audio DAT machines (I use a
> >> Fostex
> >> D5) but they say data cartridge on them.
> >
> > I'd be suspicious that the "120" in the type number is 120 meters. A
> > standard DAT - digital AUDIO tape - is 60 meters and to make a longer
> > tape, they make it thinner. The thin tape doesn't work very well (or
> > at all) in many DAT decks.
> >
> > But for five bucks for the box you can give it a try and if they don't
> > work in your machine, you can put them up for sale on eBay, advertise
> > them as "long play DAT tape" and probalby get $5 a piece for them. If
> > you didn't know about the thinner tape, chances are there are plenty
> > of others who don't, too.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> > However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> > lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> > you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> > and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
>
> Tascam particularly warns against the use of 120 meter tape in the DA-P1
> portable recorder.


How about 90min? I have both Tascam DAP1 and Da-20 and sometimes it would be
nice not be sweating it knowing I getting close to the end 64min tape and
when we're doing hr concerts or donigs songs in middle and end of services
with a long winded person preaching .
Thanks
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 11:58:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <9cRHd.2252$rp1.1758@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net> edbridgeNOSPAM@earthlink.net writes:

> How about 90min? I have both Tascam DAP1 and Da-20 and sometimes it would be
> nice not be sweating it knowing I getting close to the end 64min tape

Those almost always work.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 4:42:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Edward Bridge" <edbridge@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9cRHd.2252$rp1.1758@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>
> --
> Peace,
> Ed Bridge
> Brooklyn N.Y.
> http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
> "geoley" <geoley@covad.net> wrote in message
> news:50ec1$41ef6341$43656324$9390@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>>
>> "Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
>> news:znr1106170390k@trad...
>> >
>> > In article <10ut4o0te7ch7b6@corp.supernews.com> me@you.com writes:
>> >
>> >> I found a box of these tapes for sale at th local pawn shop:
>> >> Maxell HS4/120S Helical Scan 4mm Data Cartridge
>> >>
>> >> The owner insists that they can be used in audio DAT machines (I use a
>> >> Fostex
>> >> D5) but they say data cartridge on them.
>> >
>> > I'd be suspicious that the "120" in the type number is 120 meters. A
>> > standard DAT - digital AUDIO tape - is 60 meters and to make a longer
>> > tape, they make it thinner. The thin tape doesn't work very well (or
>> > at all) in many DAT decks.
>> >
>> > But for five bucks for the box you can give it a try and if they don't
>> > work in your machine, you can put them up for sale on eBay, advertise
>> > them as "long play DAT tape" and probalby get $5 a piece for them. If
>> > you didn't know about the thinner tape, chances are there are plenty
>> > of others who don't, too.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
>> > However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
>> > lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
>> > you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
>> > and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
>>
>> Tascam particularly warns against the use of 120 meter tape in the DA-P1
>> portable recorder.
>
>
> How about 90min? I have both Tascam DAP1 and Da-20 and sometimes it would
> be
> nice not be sweating it knowing I getting close to the end 64min tape
> and
> when we're doing hr concerts or donigs songs in middle and end of
> services
> with a long winded person preaching .
> Thanks
> Ed Bridge
> Brooklyn N.Y.
> http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
>
>
Ed:
120 meter tape is approx 160 mins and very thin and is likely to jam in
the transport mechanism, that is why Tascam warns against using it in the
DA-P1. 60 meter tape approx 125 min, is ok to use in the DA-P1 according to
Tascam.

George
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 5:45:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1106278545k@trad...
> Those almost always work.


Hi Mike
Thank you ,as always . I was feeling a little dumb buying them but I could
feel a whole lot dumber if I "blew it" . I guess I should get a other
case of 60 min too.

--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 6:18:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"geoley" <geoley@covad.net> wrote in message
news:56f42$41f1772b$43656342$5445@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
> Ed:
> 120 meter tape is approx 160 mins and very thin and is likely to jam
in
> the transport mechanism, that is why Tascam warns against using it in the
> DA-P1. 60 meter tape approx 125 min, is ok to use in the DA-P1 according
to
> Tascam.
>
> George


Whew, here I thought I wasted 50 bucks . Thanks for the info.

--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
!