The Laws Of MMORPGs

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Contributions welcome.

The Law Of Inverse Darwinism -- the young of any species are out in
the most accessible areas. The elders and warriors are hiding at the
bottom of the dungeons.

The Disneyland Law Of Heroism -- you will need to get in line to kill
the Ogre King, the Bandit Chief, or any other 'singular' individual.
You may end up killing him multiple times. Despite this, he never
recognizes you.

The Law Of Suicidal Stupidity -- although you can 'con' creatures to
see how deadly they are, they cannot -- so they will attack you even
though you will kill them before you're even aware they're attacking.

The New York Unconcerned Bystander Law -- so long as you stay more
than 10 or 15 feet from someone, you can brutally disembowel his best
buddy while he just stands there and watches. He won't do anything
unless you get too close.

The Magical Telepathy Law -- You can speak to anyone, anywhere, at
anytime. No enabling mechanism for this power is provided.

The Magical Telepathy Law, Part II -- If you kill a gnoll in the
forest with no witnesses, every other gnoll instantly knows it and
hates you for it.

The Doctors, Shmoctors, Law -- Any injury short of death heals merely
by sitting and waiting. Eating, drinking, or bandages causes it to
heal even faster.

The Death Is But A Distraction Law -- Dying will, at worst, cause you
to have temporary amnesia or a learning disability, as well as getting
your equipment slightly dinged. It is not to be feared, and may
sometimes be embraced as a means of quick travel.

The Backpack Of Strange Dimensions Law -- A backpack can hold 8 two
handed swords OR eight blades of grass. All items take up the same
amount of space.

The Quick Change Artist Law -- Getting into or out of a full suit of
armor take a second or two at most.

The PATRIOT Act Anti-Privacy Law -- Your name and the name of your
guild is instantly available for all to see, as is your profession and
how good you are at it.

The Stupid NPC Law -- Even if your name is "Stealy McThief" and your
profession is "50th level rogue", random strangers will trust you with
their precious documents and urgent messages.

The Nailed Down Lawn -- Of course, this might be because you can't
actually steal anything, except from monsters you're eviscerating
anyway.

The Magical Giant Stomach Law -- Rats and snakes can carry halberds,
plate armor, or even entire chests.

The Infinite Economy Law -- Despite the fact no one needs goblin
spleens, broken fangs, or orc eyeballs, merchants will buy them by the
truckload.

The Infinite Economy Law Part II -- Any merchant will buy anything.
Blacksmiths will buy tree sap. Food venders will buy rusty chain
boots. Potters will buy lumps of elemental essence.

Others?
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
 
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The Practice Makes Perfect at Warp 9 Law:
Anyone can go from bumbling novice to
feared master in less then a week.

The Cheap Knock-off Law:
Even the most ancient and powerful of relics were
massed produced.

It's a Small World after All Law:
Continents can be run across in 15 minutes.

It's a Small World after All Law, Part II:
Continents can be run across in 10 minutes if you
are a thieve.

The Don't You Have Something Better to do Law:
NPC's can generally be found in the exact same location
no matter what time of day or night it is - unless they've
just been killed - in which case they'll be back in an hour.
 
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On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:01:18 -0400, Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com> wrote:

>Contributions welcome.

Actually, most of these are Computer Run Adventure Program Laws - they
aren't specific to MMORPGs.

>
>The Backpack Of Strange Dimensions Law -- A backpack can hold 8 two
>handed swords OR eight blades of grass. All items take up the same
>amount of space.

You should try ADOM - unlimited backpack space as long as you are strong
enough to carry the load.

>The Infinite Economy Law Part II -- Any merchant will buy anything.
>Blacksmiths will buy tree sap. Food venders will buy rusty chain
>boots. Potters will buy lumps of elemental essence.

I also noticed that they always buy stuff at half-price as well. Damn
price fixing monopolists.
 
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Thusly Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com> Spake Unto All:

Heh, nice.

>Others?

What, you mean like...

1) The Law of Least Favorite Person
Every organism under the sun, from rats and spiders to dragons and
lich-kings, hates you with every fiber of their being and will
instantly attack you on sight.

2) The Law of Perfect Pain Suppression
No matter how badly wounded you get, as long as you're at all alive
you continue to function at 100% of your normal capacity.

3) The Law of Creeping Death
a) You never, ever, get one-shot-killed, BUT a wound to your hand is
just as damaging as a wound to your head.

4)The Law of Premasticated Opposition
You never encounter enemies you have zero chance of defeating.




--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
 
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- The Matrix law of learning: No matter for how long you've been a
master swordsmith, just talking to a guy and maybe giving him a gold
piece will make you forget how to wield a sword but will make you an
expert bowman.
- The eye doctor law of aggro: You can see mobs from miles away, but
they can only see you if you get within 10 feet
- The "I'm the universe" law of discoveries: The world has been
exactly like you see for thousands of years, but during your 1-2 year
lifetime you'll probably see 3 entire new continents, 2 underground
empires and 1 moon discovered.
- The SUV law of road building: You'll see roads in many places, but
you'll definitely reach your destination faster if you don't take them.
 
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Lizard wrote:

>Contributions welcome.
>
>

The most significant laws about games (of which, Copyright is apparently
not one, note all the imitations of everything) fall into two catagories:

1. Anyone who ever believes they have observed two different instances
of having the same thing happen to them twice WILL write up a list of
"laws" about such things.

2. Developers will always do the least effort for the most expected
return, like any industrialist. This means, just like movies, clothing
fashions, and everything else, games tend to be copies of each other,
and thus susceptible to such analysis. This is why in real life one
arrow can kill the greatest land animals (given time to bleed), but in
absolutely every game it takes many to bring down anything more
substantial than a rabbit. The same gross departures from reallity
permeate all games.
 
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On 29 Jul 2005 10:44:43 -0700, "wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com>
wrotC:DRIVE_E

>- The SUV law of road building: You'll see roads in many places, but
>you'll definitely reach your destination faster if you don't take them.

The Highway Protection Act: In many regions, hostile enemies will set
up camps all *around* the roads, but as long as you stick *to* the
road, you can pass through them safely.

The Immobile Cuisinart Guard Principle: Most cities are surrounded by
hostile forces. Should these forces be led past *right where a guard
is standing*, he will slaughter them effortlessly, usually bringing
down 5 or more without breaking a sweat. Despite this, the city never
sends even a small patrol of these uber-guards to clear out the
region, instead asking hapless new adventurers to do so.

The Disinterested New York City Bystander Rule, Section II: Even if
the streets of city are literally covered with human and monster
corpses, the businessmen and other citizens will cheerfully go about
their daily lives. For that matter, so will adventurers.

The Instant Toe-Tag Rule: All corpses are labelled for your
convenience.

The New York City Property Transfer Rule: If it is possible to loot a
corpse, the corpse will be looted. This is not considered socially
unacceptable, and, indeed, the entire economy seems to be based on
loot removed from corpses or stolen from tombs or temples.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
 
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"Raymond Martineau" <bk039@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:cpaje1hd7m0a4qlj8o5sajcg0fmopa6kqr@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:01:18 -0400, Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com> wrote:
>
>>Contributions welcome.
>
> Actually, most of these are Computer Run Adventure Program Laws - they
> aren't specific to MMORPGs.
>
C.R.A.P. Laws?
 
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On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:20 -0700, Quaestor <no-spam@my.place>
wrotC:DRIVE_E

>Lizard wrote:
>
>>Contributions welcome.
>>
>>
>
>The most significant laws about games (of which, Copyright is apparently
>not one, note all the imitations of everything) fall into two catagories:
>
>1. Anyone who ever believes they have observed two different instances
>of having the same thing happen to them twice WILL write up a list of
>"laws" about such things.
>

Well, at this point, I can assure you, it's more than two instances.
Three, at the very least!

>2. Developers will always do the least effort for the most expected
>return, like any industrialist. This means, just like movies, clothing
>fashions, and everything else, games tend to be copies of each other,
>and thus susceptible to such analysis. This is why in real life one
>arrow can kill the greatest land animals (given time to bleed), but in
>absolutely every game it takes many to bring down anything more
>substantial than a rabbit. The same gross departures from reallity
>permeate all games.

There's other factors, such as economics and time. With 3.5 million
people playing WoW, for example, it would not be possible for each of
them to have unique, non-repeating content -- not only would you
needto hire hundreds of thousands of content creators, but the speed
at which they could create material would be vastly lower than the
speed at which it could be consumed. Likewise, the "Progressquest"
nature of most commercial MMORPGs dictates many other amusingly
irrational features, such as:

The Law of Ecological Equality: All creatures in a given area will be
roughly equally dangerous, whether they are 'normal' animals or
strange, supernatural beasts. Thus, if a region has both ogres and
deer living in it, the deer will be roughly on par with the ogres, and
vice versa.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
 
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"Raymond Martineau" <bk039@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:cpaje1hd7m0a4qlj8o5sajcg0fmopa6kqr@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:01:18 -0400, Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com> wrote:
>
>>Contributions welcome.
>
> Actually, most of these are Computer Run Adventure Program Laws - they
> aren't specific to MMORPGs.
>
>>
>>The Backpack Of Strange Dimensions Law -- A backpack can hold 8 two
>>handed swords OR eight blades of grass. All items take up the same
>>amount of space.
>
> You should try ADOM - unlimited backpack space as long as you are strong
> enough to carry the load.
>
>>The Infinite Economy Law Part II -- Any merchant will buy anything.
>>Blacksmiths will buy tree sap. Food venders will buy rusty chain
>>boots. Potters will buy lumps of elemental essence.
>
> I also noticed that they always buy stuff at half-price as well. Damn
> price fixing monopolists.

Backpack Of Strange Dimensions Law, Part II -- A backpack can carry a whole
slew of items large or small, but instantly shift to an extradimensional
plane / pocket leaving your character's outfit unfettered and uncluttered
(e.g., DUNGEON SIEGE or GUILD WARS).

-- Ken from Chicago
 
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On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:20 -0700, Quaestor <no-spam@my.place> wrote:

>1. Anyone who ever believes they have observed two different instances
>of having the same thing happen to them twice WILL write up a list of
>"laws" about such things.

Oh, come on. At least Lizard's post was amusing.

>2. Developers will always do the least effort for the most expected
>return, like any industrialist. This means, just like movies, clothing
>fashions, and everything else, games tend to be copies of each other,
>and thus susceptible to such analysis. This is why in real life one
>arrow can kill the greatest land animals (given time to bleed), but in
>absolutely every game it takes many to bring down anything more
>substantial than a rabbit. The same gross departures from reallity
>permeate all games.

Huh? I spent six minutes deciphering this and it wasn't funny or
interesting.
=
= Cesar Borgia
=
 
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In article <1122659083.168747.279310@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
wolfing1@yahoo.com says...

> - The "I'm the universe" law of discoveries: The world has been
> exactly like you see for thousands of years, but during your 1-2 year
> lifetime you'll probably see 3 entire new continents, 2 underground
> empires and 1 moon discovered.

This is a little worrying, considering today's astronomical news!

- Gerry Quinn
 
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The Law of Segregation: Content is neatly packaged in areas with
defined level ranges (1-10, 10-20) for your convenience.

The Law of Scarcity: Quest items drop rarely, even if they are things
like creature body parts you would assume every creature has.
Maybe they break during combat? It's the law anyway.

The World of Warcraft Law of Restricted Access: You cannot interact
with quest containers unless you are on the quest.

The Law of Anger: Various creatures will attack you for no apparent
reason. Luckily you are born with the ability to know which ones
will and which ones won't.

The Law of Zero Consequences: It does not matter to a quest-giving NPC
whether you do as requested, a million others are doing it anyway.
 
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In article <u1x5gih06.fsf@hotmail.com>, jadedgamer@hotmail.com says...
>
> The Law of Scarcity: Quest items drop rarely, even if they are things
> like creature body parts you would assume every creature has.
> Maybe they break during combat? It's the law anyway.

This is an interesting one. During a WOW I wondered whether some item
(crocolisk skins or something) fell less frequently when I used fire
damage. Can't remember the details.

In general, choice of weapon might have an effect on the body parts
recovered, but it doesn't seem to as a rule. Maybe in some cases this
would be interesting. Though I suspect that like many things,
designers avoid it because it will most often be just annoying. It
could be worked into special quests, though.

- Gerry Quinn
 
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"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> looked up from reading
the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the
signs say:

>
>"Raymond Martineau" <bk039@ncf.ca> wrote in message
>news:cpaje1hd7m0a4qlj8o5sajcg0fmopa6kqr@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:01:18 -0400, Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Contributions welcome.
>>
>> Actually, most of these are Computer Run Adventure Program Laws - they
>> aren't specific to MMORPGs.
>>
>>>
>>>The Backpack Of Strange Dimensions Law -- A backpack can hold 8 two
>>>handed swords OR eight blades of grass. All items take up the same
>>>amount of space.
>>
>> You should try ADOM - unlimited backpack space as long as you are strong
>> enough to carry the load.
>>
>>>The Infinite Economy Law Part II -- Any merchant will buy anything.
>>>Blacksmiths will buy tree sap. Food venders will buy rusty chain
>>>boots. Potters will buy lumps of elemental essence.
>>
>> I also noticed that they always buy stuff at half-price as well. Damn
>> price fixing monopolists.
>
>Backpack Of Strange Dimensions Law, Part II -- A backpack can carry a whole
>slew of items large or small, but instantly shift to an extradimensional
>plane / pocket leaving your character's outfit unfettered and uncluttered
>(e.g., DUNGEON SIEGE or GUILD WARS).

Although in Dungeon Siege at least the packmule's baggage did change
visually with the amount in it.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
 
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Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
<snip>
>The Disinterested New York City Bystander Rule, Section II: Even if
>the streets of city are literally covered with human and monster
>corpses, the businessmen and other citizens will cheerfully go about
>their daily lives. For that matter, so will adventurers.
>
>The Instant Toe-Tag Rule: All corpses are labelled for your
>convenience.
>
>The New York City Property Transfer Rule: If it is possible to loot a
>corpse, the corpse will be looted. This is not considered socially
>unacceptable, and, indeed, the entire economy seems to be based on
>loot removed from corpses or stolen from tombs or temples.

This isn't a far fetched as it seems, since looting corpses WAS
acceptable in war until fairly recently.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
 

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On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:01:18 -0400, Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
wrote:

>Contributions welcome.
>

The Law of Invincible Trees
Despite humongous amounts of firepower thrown around by
wizards, dragons, flaming swords, Axes of Cleaving, catapults, lasers,
bombs, monsters, etc., trees are indestructible.

The Law of Invincible Trees Collary.
It's invincible, so NO, you cannot cut it down to make your
armor from the wood or bark.
 
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stoic <foo@foo.com> writes:

> It's invincible, so NO, you cannot cut it down to make your
> armor from the wood or bark.

*hrrmph*UO*hrrmph*

*cough*Horizons*cough*
 
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On 31 Jul 2005 19:52:48 +0200, Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
<jadedgamer@hotmail.com> wrote:

>*hrrmph*UO*hrrmph*
>
>*cough*Horizons*cough*

That brings up another law, though: no matter how much you hack at a
tree, and no matter how much wood you take from it, somehow the tree
never dies or changes in any way.

There's a similar law regarding mining, where no matter how much you
dig, you'll never create a hole. Also, ore is apparently buried 3
inches below the surface, and is lighter than dirt since, once you
remove the ore in an area, new ore floats to the surface a short time
later.
 
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"Xocyll" <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote in message
news:5s4oe1d18ntfomtaf21fjkhki3cnfl7o4q@4ax.com...
> Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
> porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
> <snip>
>>The Disinterested New York City Bystander Rule, Section II: Even if
>>the streets of city are literally covered with human and monster
>>corpses, the businessmen and other citizens will cheerfully go about
>>their daily lives. For that matter, so will adventurers.
>>
>>The Instant Toe-Tag Rule: All corpses are labelled for your
>>convenience.
>>
>>The New York City Property Transfer Rule: If it is possible to loot a
>>corpse, the corpse will be looted. This is not considered socially
>>unacceptable, and, indeed, the entire economy seems to be based on
>>loot removed from corpses or stolen from tombs or temples.
>
> This isn't a far fetched as it seems, since looting corpses WAS
> acceptable in war until fairly recently.
>
> Xocyll
> --
> I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
> a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
> Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
> FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

Come on, you KNOW some soldiers take "souvenir", enemy weapons, medallions,
trinkets, etc.

-- Ken from Chicago
 
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drocket <drocket@hotmail.com> writes:

> That brings up another law, though: no matter how much you hack at a
> tree, and no matter how much wood you take from it, somehow the tree
> never dies or changes in any way.

The Horizons one do, but reappear later just like other resources. WoW
appears to have taken its resource system (including "tiers") from
Horizons, except without the concentration into "pockets" bit, but
spread it around. But WoW does not have trees/wood resources, which
also means WoW does not have fletchering as skill. Engineers can make
guns, noone can make bows. I can't figure that one out.

(Maybe the "pockets" were only around the starting towns though. I
didn't play long enough to find much more than there.)

Another law:

Law Of The Magpie: Occasionally, an animal will carry around a weapon
and/or a piece of armor. Players who kill it and discover the
items often wonder why, but I guess they thought they were going
to save them for a later day. For instance for when they learn to
use armor or weapons.
 
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"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> looked up from reading
the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the
signs say:

>
>"Xocyll" <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote in message
>news:5s4oe1d18ntfomtaf21fjkhki3cnfl7o4q@4ax.com...
>> Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
>> porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>> <snip>
>>>The Disinterested New York City Bystander Rule, Section II: Even if
>>>the streets of city are literally covered with human and monster
>>>corpses, the businessmen and other citizens will cheerfully go about
>>>their daily lives. For that matter, so will adventurers.
>>>
>>>The Instant Toe-Tag Rule: All corpses are labelled for your
>>>convenience.
>>>
>>>The New York City Property Transfer Rule: If it is possible to loot a
>>>corpse, the corpse will be looted. This is not considered socially
>>>unacceptable, and, indeed, the entire economy seems to be based on
>>>loot removed from corpses or stolen from tombs or temples.
>>
>> This isn't a far fetched as it seems, since looting corpses WAS
>> acceptable in war until fairly recently.

>Come on, you KNOW some soldiers take "souvenir", enemy weapons, medallions,
>trinkets, etc.

Of course. The difference is that now it's against the rules/mores,
while back 100 years or so ago it was expected behavior.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
 
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Gerry Quinn wrote:
> In article <u1x5gih06.fsf@hotmail.com>, jadedgamer@hotmail.com says...
> >
> > The Law of Scarcity: Quest items drop rarely, even if they are things
> > like creature body parts you would assume every creature has.
> > Maybe they break during combat? It's the law anyway.
>
> This is an interesting one. During a WOW I wondered whether some item
> (crocolisk skins or something) fell less frequently when I used fire
> damage. Can't remember the details.

That does take me back to the early days of EQ. There was a thought
going around at the time that if you beat up bears, cats and wolves
with blunt weapons that they'd be more likely to drop higher quality
pelts. That was dispelled so long ago that it's probably been almost
six years since I've even thought about it.

I've seen someone state something in this thread that contradicts my
experience. That is, that if you're crossing an expanse of land,
usually the least safe path is along a road. The safest path is
alongside an unclimbable embankment that somehow manages to worm its
way back around eventually to the road on the other side of the land
expanse.

Also, all roads have wheel markings, but no one's ever seen a working
cart anywhere in the world.

C
 
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"Xocyll" <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote in message
news:gp4oe1h2bqhdd2ifesmm3ip4vnbd2t3ck3@4ax.com...
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> looked up from reading
> the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the
> signs say:
>
>>
>>"Raymond Martineau" <bk039@ncf.ca> wrote in message
>>news:cpaje1hd7m0a4qlj8o5sajcg0fmopa6kqr@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:01:18 -0400, Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Contributions welcome.
>>>
>>> Actually, most of these are Computer Run Adventure Program Laws - they
>>> aren't specific to MMORPGs.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Backpack Of Strange Dimensions Law -- A backpack can hold 8 two
>>>>handed swords OR eight blades of grass. All items take up the same
>>>>amount of space.
>>>
>>> You should try ADOM - unlimited backpack space as long as you are strong
>>> enough to carry the load.
>>>
>>>>The Infinite Economy Law Part II -- Any merchant will buy anything.
>>>>Blacksmiths will buy tree sap. Food venders will buy rusty chain
>>>>boots. Potters will buy lumps of elemental essence.
>>>
>>> I also noticed that they always buy stuff at half-price as well. Damn
>>> price fixing monopolists.
>>
>>Backpack Of Strange Dimensions Law, Part II -- A backpack can carry a
>>whole
>>slew of items large or small, but instantly shift to an extradimensional
>>plane / pocket leaving your character's outfit unfettered and uncluttered
>>(e.g., DUNGEON SIEGE or GUILD WARS).
>
> Although in Dungeon Siege at least the packmule's baggage did change
> visually with the amount in it.
>
> Xocyll
> --
> I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
> a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
> Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
> FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

Two well-known variations:

Quiver Of Strange Dimensions (see BOSD above), and ...

Gold Coins of Infinitesimal Size -- no matter how full of supplies you are,
like jello, there's always room for gold coins. You could carry tons of gold
before filling up.

-- Ken from Chicago