What's bubbling up the pipeline?

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

I'm not industry insider, but it seems like the mid-late nineties were a
veritable "golden age" for PC-CRPGs when compared to the dearth of them
available now. I liked Vampire: Bloodlines, but that is the last one to
come out in a while and I don't know of any new ones being worked on.

It almost feels like "the day the music died" was when I heard that
Fallout III was cancelled. :^/

What gives? Why the dearth of CRPGs? ARE there any titles to look
forward to in the next year? I've been enjoying the NWN series (in the
first third of SoU now and it blows the original campaign out of the
water), which I never got into back in the day because my computer at
the time wasn't really up to par for the game. However, I know they
won't last forever, and there is something sad and forlorn about getting
my gaming fix from a game that is fairly old, and not seeing anything
new in the future.

And WILL there EVER be a Fallout III? Dare I hope?

- Ron ^*^
56 answers Last reply
More about what bubbling pipeline
  1. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    In article <n2YHe.64672$FP2.36407@lakeread03>,
    Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote:
    >
    >I'm not industry insider, but it seems like the mid-late nineties were a
    >veritable "golden age" for PC-CRPGs when compared to the dearth of them
    >available now. I liked Vampire: Bloodlines, but that is the last one to
    >come out in a while and I don't know of any new ones being worked on.

    I know of only 3 RPGs in progress that I'm even remotely interested in:
    Gothic III, TES: Oblivion, and Neverwinter Nights 2. (And I'm only
    interested in NWN2 because the lead designer was a good friend back when
    I was in college.)

    It's slim pickins for single-player CRPGs these days and that's no lie.

    I'm thinking of getting another hobby. (Actually I think I already have.)

    --
    Kyle Haight
  2. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    not one CRPG whatsoever has me even remotely interested. The only game
    that has me *really* interested is City of Villains, and that's because
    I loved City of Heroes and left when I shouldn't have.
    Other games where I have some interest are D&D Online and Vanguard:
    Saga of Heroes (I know, all MMORPGs)
  3. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 00:51:15 -0400, Werebat wrote:

    > It almost feels like "the day the music died" was when I heard that
    > Fallout III was cancelled. :^/

    It hasn't been cancelled, as far as I know. Before it is released, the US
    version of "The Fall" should hit the shelves, which I think will be quite
    liked by Fallout fans.

    M.
  4. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Michael Vondung wrote:

    > On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 00:51:15 -0400, Werebat wrote:
    >
    >
    >>It almost feels like "the day the music died" was when I heard that
    >>Fallout III was cancelled. :^/
    >
    >
    > It hasn't been cancelled, as far as I know.

    It's been picked up again? The last I heard was Van Buren (FO3) got
    cancelled.

    Where can I read more?


    > Before it is released, the US
    > version of "The Fall" should hit the shelves, which I think will be quite
    > liked by Fallout fans.

    Where can I learn about this?

    - Ron ^*^
  5. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    The new one that Bioware's working on, "Dragon Age" or something like that,
    looks kinda cool. That company's got a good track record, so I figure the
    game'll be decent.
  6. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Werebat wrote:
    > I'm not industry insider, but it seems like the mid-late nineties were a
    > veritable "golden age" for PC-CRPGs when compared to the dearth of them
    > available now. I liked Vampire: Bloodlines, but that is the last one to
    > come out in a while and I don't know of any new ones being worked on.
    >
    > It almost feels like "the day the music died" was when I heard that
    > Fallout III was cancelled. :^/
    >
    > What gives? Why the dearth of CRPGs? ARE there any titles to look
    > forward to in the next year? I've been enjoying the NWN series (in the
    > first third of SoU now and it blows the original campaign out of the
    > water), which I never got into back in the day because my computer at
    > the time wasn't really up to par for the game. However, I know they
    > won't last forever, and there is something sad and forlorn about getting
    > my gaming fix from a game that is fairly old, and not seeing anything
    > new in the future.
    >

    Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is coming out soon. Possibly as early as
    November/December. That should be a good one.

    > And WILL there EVER be a Fallout III? Dare I hope?
    >
  7. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Werebat wrote:
    > wolfing wrote:
    >
    > > not one CRPG whatsoever has me even remotely interested. The only game
    > > that has me *really* interested is City of Villains, and that's because
    > > I loved City of Heroes and left when I shouldn't have.
    > > Other games where I have some interest are D&D Online and Vanguard:
    > > Saga of Heroes (I know, all MMORPGs)
    >
    > Yes, City of Heroes seems to have ushered in the "Age of MMORPGs", for
    > better or worse. I liked CoH a lot, too, but the rinse-lather-repeat of
    > it got downright tedious after a while (beautiful graphics, though). It
    > seems like developers are having a field day with this new technology,
    > which is great, but there are some great reasons why I prefer CRPGs.

    I always thought Everquest started it.

    > You don't have to compete with 12-year-olds and Welfare cases who have
    > nothing else to do with their time than PL their toons 24/7, for
    > example. And when the baby needs a diaper change or some other domestic
    > emergency happens, you can just *pause* a CRPG. And CRPGs can actually
    > have plotlines, dialogues, and characterization. And so on. I'm
    > preaching to the choir, I'm sure.
    >

    MUDs are even worse.

    > I don't think I will buy CoV, simply because I see it as being more of
    > the same that I saw in CoH. I got Doctor Gamma (Rad/Rad Defender) up to
    > 40th level on Infinity server, and that was enough for me.
    >
    > DDO I may check out, as Eberron intrigues me... But they got rid of my
    > three favorite races in the setting (Gnomes, Changelings, and Shifters)
    > as PC options, so I'm a little disappointed already.
    >
    > - Ron ^*^
  8. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 00:51:15 -0400, Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote:

    >
    >I'm not industry insider, but it seems like the mid-late nineties were a
    >veritable "golden age" for PC-CRPGs when compared to the dearth of them
    >available now. I liked Vampire: Bloodlines, but that is the last one to
    >come out in a while and I don't know of any new ones being worked on.
    >
    >It almost feels like "the day the music died" was when I heard that
    >Fallout III was cancelled. :^/

    Cancelled?

    Bethesda don't want to say more than that they're working on it, but
    they certainly haven't issued any press releases announcing a
    cancellation.
    --
    Greg Johnson
    Give your child mental blocks for Christmas.
  9. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 10:43:38 -0400, Werebat wrote:

    > It's been picked up again? The last I heard was Van Buren (FO3) got
    > cancelled.

    Hmm, I didn't hear anything from Bethesda about cancelling the game .. last
    I heard was something about a 2006 release. Then again, the most recent
    press release I am aware of is one year old:

    http://www.bethsoft.com/news/pressrelease_071204.htm

    Wikipedia doesn't have newer information, either:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_2

    > Where can I learn about this?

    The Fall is developed by the German company Silver Style, and was released
    in Germany last November. It was rather buggy and they kept working on it
    religiously, eventually releasing a solid, enjoyable "extended version" a
    few months ago. The US version is scheduled for release later this year.
    They won't say more than "after August".

    English, official forum (fairly active):
    http://www.silver-style.com/forum/index.php?c=4

    Screenshots of The Fall:
    http://www.silver-style.com/e/galerie/e_thefall_g.html

    Overview of the game features:
    http://www.silver-style.com/e/games/e_thefall.html

    I play this in German and I'm actually quite impressed with it so far.
    Plenty of freedom, relatively non-linear, the tweaked interface is fairly
    good. Weapon balance still leaves something to be desired, but the next
    patch will address that. International users will basically get the
    finished, balanced product, while the German gamers got to beta-test it. :/
    Still, it's turned out nicely after the initial disaster.

    No multiplayer mode is planned, but an add-on is in the works.

    M.
  10. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    wolfing wrote:

    > not one CRPG whatsoever has me even remotely interested. The only game
    > that has me *really* interested is City of Villains, and that's because
    > I loved City of Heroes and left when I shouldn't have.
    > Other games where I have some interest are D&D Online and Vanguard:
    > Saga of Heroes (I know, all MMORPGs)

    Yes, City of Heroes seems to have ushered in the "Age of MMORPGs", for
    better or worse. I liked CoH a lot, too, but the rinse-lather-repeat of
    it got downright tedious after a while (beautiful graphics, though). It
    seems like developers are having a field day with this new technology,
    which is great, but there are some great reasons why I prefer CRPGs.
    You don't have to compete with 12-year-olds and Welfare cases who have
    nothing else to do with their time than PL their toons 24/7, for
    example. And when the baby needs a diaper change or some other domestic
    emergency happens, you can just *pause* a CRPG. And CRPGs can actually
    have plotlines, dialogues, and characterization. And so on. I'm
    preaching to the choir, I'm sure.

    I don't think I will buy CoV, simply because I see it as being more of
    the same that I saw in CoH. I got Doctor Gamma (Rad/Rad Defender) up to
    40th level on Infinity server, and that was enough for me.

    DDO I may check out, as Eberron intrigues me... But they got rid of my
    three favorite races in the setting (Gnomes, Changelings, and Shifters)
    as PC options, so I'm a little disappointed already.

    - Ron ^*^
  11. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 17:22:27 +0200, Michael Vondung
    <mvondung@gmail.com> wrote:

    >> It's been picked up again? The last I heard was Van Buren (FO3) got
    >> cancelled.
    >
    >Hmm, I didn't hear anything from Bethesda about cancelling the game .. last
    >I heard was something about a 2006 release. Then again, the most recent
    >press release I am aware of is one year old:

    He's talking about Van Buren (Fallout 3 working title), which was
    cancelled after being approx. halfway done. That was before Bethesda
    picked up the license. Supposedly Bethesda are now starting their
    Fallout 3 from scratch.

    http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=1594

    http://www.duckandcover.cx/gallery/index.php?cat=6

    http://www.gamebanshee.com/fallout3/

    --
    Kasper
  12. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Kasper wrote:

    > On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 17:22:27 +0200, Michael Vondung
    > <mvondung@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>It's been picked up again? The last I heard was Van Buren (FO3) got
    >>>cancelled.
    >>
    >>Hmm, I didn't hear anything from Bethesda about cancelling the game .. last
    >>I heard was something about a 2006 release. Then again, the most recent
    >>press release I am aware of is one year old:
    >
    >
    > He's talking about Van Buren (Fallout 3 working title), which was
    > cancelled after being approx. halfway done. That was before Bethesda
    > picked up the license. Supposedly Bethesda are now starting their
    > Fallout 3 from scratch.
    >
    > http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=1594
    >
    > http://www.duckandcover.cx/gallery/index.php?cat=6
    >
    > http://www.gamebanshee.com/fallout3/

    Well... It's good to hear that FO3 is being made!

    Although I'm a little leery, since the last game I played that got
    picked up by another company was none other than Star Control III. :^/

    - Ron ^*^
  13. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    >DDO I may check out, as Eberron intrigues me... But they got rid of my three favorite races in the >setting (Gnomes, Changelings, and Shifters) as PC options, so I'm a little disappointed already.

    They are only missing for the initial release, they will be added into
    the game at some point after launch, along with druids and monks.
  14. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Here are three micro-interviews on the game:

    http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?setView=features&gameID=163&loadFeature=0/&fp=1152,864,712275171,20050803224025
  15. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Alex Mars wrote:
    >>DDO I may check out, as Eberron intrigues me... But they got rid of my three favorite races in the >setting (Gnomes, Changelings, and Shifters) as PC options, so I'm a little disappointed already.
    >
    >
    > They are only missing for the initial release, they will be added into
    > the game at some point after launch, along with druids and monks.

    Read: Gnomes first, then Mmmaybe Changelings and Shifters, in the fourth
    or fifth major revision.

    - Ron ^*^
  16. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> once tried to test me with:

    >> He's talking about Van Buren (Fallout 3 working title), which was
    >> cancelled after being approx. halfway done. That was before Bethesda
    >> picked up the license. Supposedly Bethesda are now starting their
    >> Fallout 3 from scratch.
    >>
    >> http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=1594
    >>
    >> http://www.duckandcover.cx/gallery/index.php?cat=6
    >>
    >> http://www.gamebanshee.com/fallout3/
    >
    > Well... It's good to hear that FO3 is being made!
    >
    > Although I'm a little leery, since the last game I played that got
    > picked up by another company was none other than Star Control III. :^/
    >

    I think you have good reason to be leery. Personally I do not expect
    Bethesda's Fallout 3 to be anything remotely like Fallout other than the
    name. That doesn't mean it won't be a good game, because it might be, but
    I'm just not expecting it to really be a true Fallout 3.

    --

    Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

    Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
  17. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:Xns96A7D0E42FF5Bknight37m@130.133.1.4...
    > Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> once tried to test me with:
    >
    >>> He's talking about Van Buren (Fallout 3 working title), which was
    >>> cancelled after being approx. halfway done. That was before Bethesda
    >>> picked up the license. Supposedly Bethesda are now starting their
    >>> Fallout 3 from scratch.
    >>>
    >>> http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=1594
    >>>
    >>> http://www.duckandcover.cx/gallery/index.php?cat=6
    >>>
    >>> http://www.gamebanshee.com/fallout3/
    >>
    >> Well... It's good to hear that FO3 is being made!
    >>
    >> Although I'm a little leery, since the last game I played that got
    >> picked up by another company was none other than Star Control III. :^/
    >>
    >
    > I think you have good reason to be leery. Personally I do not expect
    > Bethesda's Fallout 3 to be anything remotely like Fallout other than the
    > name. That doesn't mean it won't be a good game, because it might be, but
    > I'm just not expecting it to really be a true Fallout 3.

    from what I've read, it's not going to be top-down isometric.... well,
    that's prettymuch "not fallout" then. They've also said they are going to
    stick with technology they are already developing and what they do best
    (meaning first person).

    And you're right - it might be a good game and worthy of the name "Fallout",
    but it won't be "fallout 3"
  18. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    "wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote on 03 elo 2005:

    > not one CRPG whatsoever has me even remotely interested.

    At this time, among all the games I am aware of being in development,
    I only intend to buy one: Neverwinter Nights 2. I'd buy City of
    Villains, Matrix Online and D&D Online if they weren't MMORPGs.

    I'd buy more games but it's pretty slim pickings on the superhero and
    D&D fronts.

    --
    Samy Merchi | samy@iki.fi | http://www.iki.fi/samy | #152235689
    Reader of superhero comic books, writer of superhero fanfiction
    "*Astrolabe*...whirls...*twirls*!"
  19. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in
    news:n2YHe.64672$FP2.36407@lakeread03:

    > I'm not industry insider, but it seems like the mid-late nineties were a
    > veritable "golden age" for PC-CRPGs when compared to the dearth of them
    > available now.
    "golden age" in mid-nineties? I think that was the worst drought in CRPG
    between something like 93 and 98. Early nineties produced a lot of
    classics, such as Wizardry 7, BaK and others, but in mid-nineties there was
    virtually nothing until release of Baldur's Gate (in 98?) which has
    reanimated the genre. I hope that the current drought will be over soon
    (but it doesn't seem as bad as it was in mid-nineties).

    Alex.
  20. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 05:06:23 GMT,
    QQalextiQQ@videotron.few.useless.chars.ca (alexti) wrote:

    >BaK and others, but in mid-nineties there was
    >virtually nothing until release of Baldur's Gate (in 98?) which has
    >reanimated the genre. I hope that the current drought will be over soon
    >(but it doesn't seem as bad as it was in mid-nineties).

    BG ushered in the "golden age" of the late 90's. That golden age, has
    given way to the medieval age of RPG's for PC.

    There are 4 games coming out that I know of that are pure RPG's for
    PC: Fallout 3, NWN 2, and ES4: Oblivion, and Dargon Age. PC has
    become the platform Strategy, Realtime Strategy, FPS's and MMORPG's.

    Most other RPG releases seem to be manga/anime influnenced products
    for consoles.
  21. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Well, City of Villains would be perfect for me if it was 'just more of
    the same', but actually it has more things like villains designing and
    building your base, and then (I guess optionally) heroes coming to try
    to take you. Sounds like a lot of fun.
    City of Heroes was my perfect game for the following reasons:
    - RPG
    - no loot
    - super fun
    - instanced adventures
    - no PvP
    - did I say it's super fun?

    City of Villains can't come soon enough!
  22. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1123111010.825711.192270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > Werebat wrote:
    > > I'm not industry insider, but it seems like the mid-late nineties were a
    > > veritable "golden age" for PC-CRPGs when compared to the dearth of them
    > > available now. I liked Vampire: Bloodlines, but that is the last one to
    > > come out in a while and I don't know of any new ones being worked on.
    > >
    > > It almost feels like "the day the music died" was when I heard that
    > > Fallout III was cancelled. :^/
    > >
    > > What gives? Why the dearth of CRPGs? ARE there any titles to look
    > > forward to in the next year? I've been enjoying the NWN series (in the
    > > first third of SoU now and it blows the original campaign out of the
    > > water), which I never got into back in the day because my computer at
    > > the time wasn't really up to par for the game. However, I know they
    > > won't last forever, and there is something sad and forlorn about getting
    > > my gaming fix from a game that is fairly old, and not seeing anything
    > > new in the future.
    > >
    >
    > Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is coming out soon. Possibly as early as
    > November/December. That should be a good one.
    >
    >

    Yeah,
    I just finally picked up Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind.
    I haven't played a RPG since Wizardry VII, look forward to getting into this
    one (I also picked up Wizardry VIII).
    They ought to be out with Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, get the bugs worked
    out, then I'll be ready for it.

    --
    Dr. Dickie
    Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
    Poking kooks with a pointy stick.
    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
    discoveries,
    is not 'Eureka!' ('I found it!'), but rather 'hmm....that's funny...'"
    - Isaac Asimov
  23. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Kaos <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> writes:

    > I don't think he likes you, Ron.

    I think Bateau just needs a hug.

    Nick

    --
    #include<stdio.h> /* sigmask (sig.c) 20041028 PUBLIC DOMAIN */
    int main(c,v)char *v;{return !c?putchar(* /* cc -o sig sig.c */
    v-1)&&main(0,v+1):main(0,"Ojdl!Wbshjti!=ojdlAwbshjti/psh?\v\1");}
  24. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    wolfing wrote:

    > Well, City of Villains would be perfect for me if it was 'just more of
    > the same', but actually it has more things like villains designing and
    > building your base, and then (I guess optionally) heroes coming to try
    > to take you. Sounds like a lot of fun.
    > City of Heroes was my perfect game for the following reasons:
    > - RPG

    Huh? I guess in the sense that you gain XP and powers, yes.


    > - no loot

    More or less true (you can still find training).


    > - super fun

    True until the rinse-lather-repeat makes you feel like Waldorf and
    Statler -- "Why do we always come here? I guess we'll never know..."

    Going from level 35-40 wasn't so much "fun" as "tedious". I'm told
    40-50 was even worse.


    > - instanced adventures
    > - no PvP
    > - did I say it's super fun?
    >
    > City of Villains can't come soon enough!

    I hope you enjoy it.

    - Ron ^*^
  25. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Michael Vondung <mvondung@gmail.com> wrote:
    >On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 10:43:38 -0400, Werebat wrote:
    >
    >> It's been picked up again? The last I heard was Van Buren (FO3) got
    >> cancelled.
    >
    >Hmm, I didn't hear anything from Bethesda about cancelling the game .. last
    >I heard was something about a 2006 release. Then again, the most recent
    >press release I am aware of is one year old:
    >
    >http://www.bethsoft.com/news/pressrelease_071204.htm
    >
    >Wikipedia doesn't have newer information, either:
    >
    >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_2
    >
    >> Where can I learn about this?
    >
    >The Fall is developed by the German company Silver Style, and was released
    >in Germany last November. It was rather buggy and they kept working on it
    >religiously, eventually releasing a solid, enjoyable "extended version" a
    >few months ago. The US version is scheduled for release later this year.
    >They won't say more than "after August".
    >
    >English, official forum (fairly active):
    >http://www.silver-style.com/forum/index.php?c=4
    >
    >Screenshots of The Fall:
    >http://www.silver-style.com/e/galerie/e_thefall_g.html
    >
    >Overview of the game features:
    >http://www.silver-style.com/e/games/e_thefall.html
    >
    >I play this in German and I'm actually quite impressed with it so far.
    >Plenty of freedom, relatively non-linear, the tweaked interface is fairly
    >good. Weapon balance still leaves something to be desired, but the next
    >patch will address that. International users will basically get the
    >finished, balanced product, while the German gamers got to beta-test it. :/

    Well you did start WW2.

    >Still, it's turned out nicely after the initial disaster.
    >
    >No multiplayer mode is planned, but an add-on is in the works.
    >
    >M.
  26. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    "jwb" <jwb3333removethis@excite.com> wrote:
    >"Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
    >news:Xns96A7D0E42FF5Bknight37m@130.133.1.4...
    >> Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> once tried to test me with:
    >>
    >>>> He's talking about Van Buren (Fallout 3 working title), which was
    >>>> cancelled after being approx. halfway done. That was before Bethesda
    >>>> picked up the license. Supposedly Bethesda are now starting their
    >>>> Fallout 3 from scratch.
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=1594
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.duckandcover.cx/gallery/index.php?cat=6
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.gamebanshee.com/fallout3/
    >>>
    >>> Well... It's good to hear that FO3 is being made!
    >>>
    >>> Although I'm a little leery, since the last game I played that got
    >>> picked up by another company was none other than Star Control III. :^/
    >>>
    >>
    >> I think you have good reason to be leery. Personally I do not expect
    >> Bethesda's Fallout 3 to be anything remotely like Fallout other than the
    >> name. That doesn't mean it won't be a good game, because it might be, but
    >> I'm just not expecting it to really be a true Fallout 3.
    >
    >from what I've read, it's not going to be top-down isometric.... well,
    >that's prettymuch "not fallout" then.

    So if Fallout had The Fall's engine it wouldn't be Fallout?
    At this stage a 2D Fallout with the same old engine and same old
    graphics wouldn't be Fallout. Everyone expects more.

    >They've also said they are going to
    >stick with technology they are already developing and what they do best
    >(meaning first person).
    >
    >And you're right - it might be a good game and worthy of the name "Fallout",
    >but it won't be "fallout 3"
  27. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Bateau wrote:

    > "jwb" <jwb3333removethis@excite.com> wrote:
    >
    >>"Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
    >>news:Xns96A7D0E42FF5Bknight37m@130.133.1.4...
    >>
    >>>Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> once tried to test me with:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>He's talking about Van Buren (Fallout 3 working title), which was
    >>>>>cancelled after being approx. halfway done. That was before Bethesda
    >>>>>picked up the license. Supposedly Bethesda are now starting their
    >>>>>Fallout 3 from scratch.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=1594
    >>>>>
    >>>>>http://www.duckandcover.cx/gallery/index.php?cat=6
    >>>>>
    >>>>>http://www.gamebanshee.com/fallout3/
    >>>>
    >>>>Well... It's good to hear that FO3 is being made!
    >>>>
    >>>>Although I'm a little leery, since the last game I played that got
    >>>>picked up by another company was none other than Star Control III. :^/
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>I think you have good reason to be leery. Personally I do not expect
    >>>Bethesda's Fallout 3 to be anything remotely like Fallout other than the
    >>>name. That doesn't mean it won't be a good game, because it might be, but
    >>>I'm just not expecting it to really be a true Fallout 3.
    >>
    >>from what I've read, it's not going to be top-down isometric.... well,
    >
    >>that's prettymuch "not fallout" then.
    >
    >
    > So if Fallout had The Fall's engine it wouldn't be Fallout?
    > At this stage a 2D Fallout with the same old engine and same old
    > graphics wouldn't be Fallout. Everyone expects more.

    Bleah. I'd be fine with the old system, old code, etc. with a few good
    tweaks and a good plotline.

    - Ron ^*^
  28. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> writes:

    > At this stage a 2D Fallout with the same old engine and same old
    > graphics wouldn't be Fallout. Everyone expects more.

    True, but as a huge fan of the first one, I don't want a first-person
    action RPG. I want my turn-based tactical combat.

    It would be possible to provide the classic Fallout gameplay with an
    updated 3D engine... But Bethesda seems more interested in making the
    franchise fit their existing engines rather than preserving the
    elements that made Fallout so great to begin with.

    Nick

    --
    #include<stdio.h> /* sigmask (sig.c) 20041028 PUBLIC DOMAIN */
    int main(c,v)char *v;{return !c?putchar(* /* cc -o sig sig.c */
    v-1)&&main(0,v+1):main(0,"Ojdl!Wbshjti!=ojdlAwbshjti/psh?\v\1");}
  29. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Nick Vargish wrote:
    > Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> writes:
    >
    >
    >>At this stage a 2D Fallout with the same old engine and same old
    >>graphics wouldn't be Fallout. Everyone expects more.
    >
    >
    > True, but as a huge fan of the first one, I don't want a first-person
    > action RPG. I want my turn-based tactical combat.
    >
    > It would be possible to provide the classic Fallout gameplay with an
    > updated 3D engine... But Bethesda seems more interested in making the
    > franchise fit their existing engines rather than preserving the
    > elements that made Fallout so great to begin with.

    Bleah.

    I can't go to the online pics of Van Buren anymore. They make me too sad.

    - Ron ^*^
  30. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    "Alex Mars" <demiurge@alexmars.com> wrote:
    >Here are three micro-interviews on the game:
    >
    >http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?setView=features&gameID=163&loadFeature=0/&fp=1152,864,712275171,20050803224025

    How come Bethesda hasn't jumped on the MMORPG bandwagon yet? Or have
    they?
  31. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    "Alex Mars" <demiurge@alexmars.com> wrote:
    >Here are three micro-interviews on the game:
    >
    >http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?setView=features&gameID=163&loadFeature=0/&fp=1152,864,712275171,20050803224025

    "Dungeons & Dragons Online"? We're talking about Fallout 3.
  32. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Thus spake "Alex Mars" <demiurge@alexmars.com>, 3 Aug 2005 19:41:52 -0700,
    Anno Domini:

    >Here are three micro-interviews on the game:
    >
    >http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?setView=features&gameID=163&loadFeature=0/&fp=1152,864,712275171,20050803224025

    Ummm...wtf has D&D online got to do with Fallout 3 Alex? :-/

    --
    A killfile is a friend for life.

    Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
  33. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Nick Vargish <nav+posts@bandersnatch.org> once tried to test me with:

    > It would be possible to provide the classic Fallout gameplay with an
    > updated 3D engine... But Bethesda seems more interested in making the
    > franchise fit their existing engines rather than preserving the
    > elements that made Fallout so great to begin with.

    Exactly. What Fallout fans want is the SPECIAL game rules system in a turn-
    based tactical combat system. If it has fancy 3D graphics, that's a plus,
    but by making the game Post-Apocalyptic-Morrowind it's going to deviate far
    from what fans of the Fallout series expect and desire. Will it be good?
    Very possibly. But IMHO they shouldn't call it Fallout 3.

    --

    Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

    Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
  34. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:Xns96A8C00AA3235knight37m@130.133.1.4...

    > Exactly. What Fallout fans want is the SPECIAL game rules system in a
    > turn-
    > based tactical combat system. If it has fancy 3D graphics, that's a plus,
    > but by making the game Post-Apocalyptic-Morrowind it's going to deviate
    > far
    > from what fans of the Fallout series expect and desire. Will it be good?
    > Very possibly. But IMHO they shouldn't call it Fallout 3.

    Even if it was a word-for-word, clone-like remake of the original Fallout
    (or Fallout 2), with exactly the same setting, characters, story, subplots
    and equipment, but had a fancy new 3D first-person interface to it? I'd be
    very hard-pressed to *not* call that Fallout. Wouldn't you?

    For what it's worth, the turn-based combat was my least favourite aspect of
    the game. Aside from that, it was about as perfect as that sort of game
    could get. I would've prefered Baldur's Gate style combat.
  35. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Paul Fedorenko wrote:

    > "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:Xns96A8C00AA3235knight37m@130.133.1.4...
    >
    >
    >>Exactly. What Fallout fans want is the SPECIAL game rules system in a
    >>turn-
    >>based tactical combat system. If it has fancy 3D graphics, that's a plus,
    >>but by making the game Post-Apocalyptic-Morrowind it's going to deviate
    >>far
    >>from what fans of the Fallout series expect and desire. Will it be good?
    >>Very possibly. But IMHO they shouldn't call it Fallout 3.
    >
    >
    > Even if it was a word-for-word, clone-like remake of the original Fallout
    > (or Fallout 2), with exactly the same setting, characters, story, subplots
    > and equipment, but had a fancy new 3D first-person interface to it? I'd be
    > very hard-pressed to *not* call that Fallout. Wouldn't you?
    >
    > For what it's worth, the turn-based combat was my least favourite aspect of
    > the game. Aside from that, it was about as perfect as that sort of game
    > could get. I would've prefered Baldur's Gate style combat.

    Since I always did autopause every round, I didn't see all that much
    difference between the two. Given a choice I prefer turn-based to
    realtime, but I thought BG and BGII offered a happy medium.

    Realtime is for puerile Warcraft fanboys who act like 6-year-old
    children, but to each his own.

    - Ron ^*^
  36. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Nick Vargish <nav+posts@bandersnatch.org> wrote:
    >Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> writes:
    >
    >> At this stage a 2D Fallout with the same old engine and same old
    >> graphics wouldn't be Fallout. Everyone expects more.
    >
    >True, but as a huge fan of the first one, I don't want a first-person
    >action RPG. I want my turn-based tactical combat.

    Oh you just want turn based combat. I thought you said you wanted a top
    down isometric view. The Fall has turn based combat doesn't it?

    >It would be possible to provide the classic Fallout gameplay with an
    >updated 3D engine... But Bethesda seems more interested in making the
    >franchise fit their existing engines rather than preserving the
    >elements that made Fallout so great to begin with.

    There's no reason they couldn't make a turn based third person game with
    their current engines. Modders used the Half Life engine to make turn
    based, tile movement games. Did they say it was going to be first person
    real time or did they just say they were going to use their Morrowind 4
    engine?
  37. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> writes:

    > Oh you just want turn based combat. I thought you said you wanted a top
    > down isometric view. The Fall has turn based combat doesn't it?

    I never said anything about top down isometric, someone else might
    have though. It seems like the natural presentation for turn-based
    tactical, but I'd be willing to try something else.

    > There's no reason they couldn't make a turn based third person game with
    > their current engines.

    There was a strong implication that this wasn't how they were planning
    to go, but okay, they didn't say they _weren't_. I like to be
    pleasantly surprised, it just doesn't happen often.

    Nick

    --
    #include<stdio.h> /* sigmask (sig.c) 20041028 PUBLIC DOMAIN */
    int main(c,v)char *v;{return !c?putchar(* /* cc -o sig sig.c */
    v-1)&&main(0,v+1):main(0,"Ojdl!Wbshjti!=ojdlAwbshjti/psh?\v\1");}
  38. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    freshie <freshie@newsguy.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
    >On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 05:06:23 GMT,
    >QQalextiQQ@videotron.few.useless.chars.ca (alexti) wrote:
    >
    >>BaK and others, but in mid-nineties there was
    >>virtually nothing until release of Baldur's Gate (in 98?) which has
    >>reanimated the genre. I hope that the current drought will be over soon
    >>(but it doesn't seem as bad as it was in mid-nineties).
    >
    >BG ushered in the "golden age" of the late 90's. That golden age, has
    >given way to the medieval age of RPG's for PC.
    >
    >There are 4 games coming out that I know of that are pure RPG's for
    >PC: Fallout 3, NWN 2, and ES4: Oblivion, and Dargon Age. PC has
    >become the platform Strategy, Realtime Strategy, FPS's and MMORPG's.
    >
    >Most other RPG releases seem to be manga/anime influnenced products
    >for consoles.

    Where'd you read that Fallout 3 was going to be a pure RPG?
  39. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> wrote:
    >Thus spake "Alex Mars" <demiurge@alexmars.com>, 3 Aug 2005 19:41:52 -0700,
    >Anno Domini:
    >
    >>Here are three micro-interviews on the game:
    >>
    >>http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?setView=features&gameID=163&loadFeature=0/&fp=1152,864,712275171,20050803224025
    >
    >Ummm...wtf has D&D online got to do with Fallout 3 Alex? :-/

    He's a google noob. He doesn't know what he's doing.
  40. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> once tried to test me with:

    > FOBOS is a different game than FT:BOS? I have FT:BOS, what is the
    > difference?
    >
    > Is there another FO game out there I missed?

    Playstation 2 game I think. I didn't play it. It's a 3rd person action
    game.

    Ok I just looked it up. It's PS2 and Xbox.

    http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/falloutbrotherhoodofsteel/index.html

    Looking at the game play movie on GameSpot it looks a lot like Baldur's
    Gate: Dark Alliance set in a Fallout setting. The give it a 7.3 "Good". I
    might have to check this one out if I can find it cheap, I love the BG:DA
    style games.

    From the Review:

    "More specifically, Brotherhood of Steel is clearly inspired by and closely
    resembles Interplay's outstanding action RPG, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance-
    -but it's not as impressive. Fallout fans will find that this game is
    fairly faithful to the spirit of the series, except for the relentless use
    of profanity in its dialogue, so it's basically a simple, mildly
    entertaining, and somewhat uneven quasi-futuristic dungeon crawl for one or
    two players."

    It sounds a lot like Hunter: The Reckoning, which is also in the "BG:DA"
    style genre, but with guns and stuff.

    --

    Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

    Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
  41. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 11:19:21 -0400, Werebat wrote:

    >> Fallout would have been great if you could control your followers.
    >> Moving a few hexes and shooting is hardly "micromanagement" and you seem
    >> like a bit of a retard for suggesting that it is.
    >
    > AMEN!

    I find it harder to get immersed into a story if I have to control more
    than one character. I much prefer just one protagonist. Perhaps I'm just
    not schizophrenic enough? :)

    M.
  42. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Michael Vondung <mvondung@gmail.com> wrote:
    >On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 11:19:21 -0400, Werebat wrote:
    >
    >>> Fallout would have been great if you could control your followers.
    >>> Moving a few hexes and shooting is hardly "micromanagement" and you seem
    >>> like a bit of a retard for suggesting that it is.
    >>
    >> AMEN!
    >
    >I find it harder to get immersed into a story if I have to control more
    >than one character. I much prefer just one protagonist. Perhaps I'm just
    >not schizophrenic enough? :)

    But they're his buddies. You don't see anything from their point of
    view.
  43. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Bateau wrote:

    > Michael Vondung <mvondung@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >>On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 11:19:21 -0400, Werebat wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>>Fallout would have been great if you could control your followers.
    >>>>Moving a few hexes and shooting is hardly "micromanagement" and you seem
    >>>>like a bit of a retard for suggesting that it is.
    >>>
    >>>AMEN!
    >>
    >>I find it harder to get immersed into a story if I have to control more
    >>than one character. I much prefer just one protagonist. Perhaps I'm just
    >>not schizophrenic enough? :)
    >
    >
    > But they're his buddies. You don't see anything from their point of
    > view.

    I have to agree with you here.

    - Ron ^*^
  44. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Bateau wrote:

    > Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote:


    >>FO:T did have elevation and used basically the same system, or close
    >>enough that I'd call it a tweak. Looked like a duck, quacked like a duck...
    >
    >
    > Well that just proves my point. FO:T doesn't use the same engine as
    > Fallout.

    It looked like a duck, quacked like a duck, and was really just an
    improved version of the old engine. "A few tweaks", like I said.
    Fallout with the FO:T combat engine would have been comfortably Fallout.


    >>>Maps are a pain in the ass.
    >>
    >>In what way? I didn't find the FO maps to be a pain in the ass.
    >
    >
    > Ever tried making one?

    You were trying to program new quests or something?


    >>>You can't control NPCs.
    >>
    >>That could be tweaked, yes. I'm on the fence about that one. On one
    >>hand, I'd like to be able to have complete control over the entire team
    >>a la FO:T. On the other, there was that element of identifying with the
    >>main character above all of the others that I kind of liked. Plus,
    >>friendly fire DOES happen IRL, and it wasn't like the bad guys never
    >>suffered from it either. I'd agree that they needed smarter AI when it
    >>came to things like burst weapons.
    >
    >
    > You would only have to control them in combat. It would be like giving
    > them orders. You couldn't have them talk to people or get quests or
    > anything.

    I've discussed this elsewhere -- on many levels I agree with you
    completely. I really enjoyed controlling the whole squad in FO:T (can't
    remember the name of the girl I got to specialize in plasma pistols, but
    she could sneak in and squeeze off ten shots with them before the enemy
    could react, which was as righteous as Stein's sniping). On the whole,
    I'd prefer complete combat control, with the enemy AI being bumped up so
    that they too don't blow each other away with burst weapons.

    One or two zingers might be nice, too, like the NPC who betrays you in
    an intelligent way (waiting until the squad is weakened and in combat to
    turn, or slipping off (with all of his equipment) to warn the enemy
    rather than attacking), or a coward who occasionally runs. That sort of
    thing.


    >>I'd thoroughly enjoy another game in using the old system as-is, even if
    >>it could have benefited from some positive tinkering. FO:T showed us
    >>some of the tactical stuff that the system could have been ramped up to
    >>include (elevation, vehicles in combat, etc).
    >
    >
    > In FO:T elevation and vehicles were so poorly implemented that they
    > appeared broken.

    Bah. Elevation worked fine for me, and the only vehicle problem I had
    was the one tank that I couldn't get started that was apparently
    supposed to work.

    - Ron ^*^
  45. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    >I never had the humvee get stuck in base,

    Unless you picked up the game after the first patch, you did, you may
    have just forgotten about it. When you transferred to the new base and
    the humvee appeared there it was too tall to get back out, this was a
    major bug that effected all of us. The only way to miss it was to park
    the humvee somewhere in the field prior to the base transfer and then
    walk out to get it later (and never to take it into that base). The
    fix for this was in the first patch.

    >I never had this happen to me. Not saying it couldn't happen, just that IME it wasn't an issue.

    You were lucky, we were emailing locations of holes between the
    underground and the surface to be fixed in a patch.
  46. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote:
    >Bateau wrote:
    >
    >> Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote:
    >>>FO:T did have elevation and used basically the same system, or close
    >>>enough that I'd call it a tweak. Looked like a duck, quacked like a duck...
    >>
    >>
    >> Well that just proves my point. FO:T doesn't use the same engine as
    >> Fallout.
    >
    >It looked like a duck, quacked like a duck, and was really just an
    >improved version of the old engine. "A few tweaks", like I said.
    >Fallout with the FO:T combat engine would have been comfortably Fallout.

    Did my last post make you so angry that you forgot to reply to all this
    stuff?
    You're just embarrassing yourself. The Fallout Tactics engine was not
    based on the Fallout engine.

    "The Fallout Tactics engine is brand-new. It incorporates support for 3D
    hardware." -- Chris Taylor

    "Brand new engine. From scratch. All new art, all new programming (well,
    except the Special system, which came from FO2 and has been tweaked). It
    also supports 1024x768." -- Chris Taylor

    "Fallout Tactics should be a lot more stable. It is a completely new
    engine, and we have a much better handle on how to script missions in
    FT, which was one of the major problems with the Fallout engine." --
    Chris Taylor

    >>>>Maps are a pain in the ass.
    >>>
    >>>In what way? I didn't find the FO maps to be a pain in the ass.
    >>
    >>
    >> Ever tried making one?
    >
    >You were trying to program new quests or something?

    No. MAKING MAPS. Exactly like I said in my last post you brain cripple.

    >>>>You can't control NPCs.
    >>>
    >>>That could be tweaked, yes. I'm on the fence about that one. On one
    >>>hand, I'd like to be able to have complete control over the entire team
    >>>a la FO:T. On the other, there was that element of identifying with the
    >>>main character above all of the others that I kind of liked. Plus,
    >>>friendly fire DOES happen IRL, and it wasn't like the bad guys never
    >>>suffered from it either. I'd agree that they needed smarter AI when it
    >>>came to things like burst weapons.
    >>
    >> You would only have to control them in combat. It would be like giving
    >> them orders. You couldn't have them talk to people or get quests or
    >> anything.
    >
    >I've discussed this elsewhere -- on many levels I agree with you

    I'm going to have to call you a liar here. If you'd ever spoken to any
    Fallout fans before you would have known of the general criticisms of
    the engine from Fallout's fans AND developers.

    >completely. I really enjoyed controlling the whole squad in FO:T (can't
    >remember the name of the girl I got to specialize in plasma pistols, but
    >she could sneak in and squeeze off ten shots with them before the enemy
    >could react, which was as righteous as Stein's sniping). On the whole,
    >I'd prefer complete combat control, with the enemy AI being bumped up so
    >that they too don't blow each other away with burst weapons.
    >
    >One or two zingers might be nice, too, like the NPC who betrays you in
    >an intelligent way (waiting until the squad is weakened and in combat to
    >turn, or slipping off (with all of his equipment) to warn the enemy
    >rather than attacking), or a coward who occasionally runs. That sort of
    >thing.
    >
    >>>I'd thoroughly enjoy another game in using the old system as-is, even if
    >>>it could have benefited from some positive tinkering. FO:T showed us
    >>>some of the tactical stuff that the system could have been ramped up to
    >>>include (elevation, vehicles in combat, etc).
    >>
    >>
    >> In FO:T elevation and vehicles were so poorly implemented that they
    >> appeared broken.
    >
    >Bah. Elevation worked fine for me, and the only vehicle problem I had
    >was the one tank that I couldn't get started that was apparently
    >supposed to work.

    Hey where'd all your childish insults go? Did they evaporated when you
    realized that I knew far more about this subject than you?
  47. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Alex Mars wrote:

    >>I never had the humvee get stuck in base,
    >
    >
    > Unless you picked up the game after the first patch, you did, you may
    > have just forgotten about it. When you transferred to the new base and
    > the humvee appeared there it was too tall to get back out, this was a
    > major bug that effected all of us. The only way to miss it was to park
    > the humvee somewhere in the field prior to the base transfer and then
    > walk out to get it later (and never to take it into that base). The
    > fix for this was in the first patch.

    It's very possible that I played with the first patch installed. Yeah,
    that kind of thing IS annoying, but hardly unusual.


    >>I never had this happen to me. Not saying it couldn't happen, just that IME it wasn't an issue.
    >
    >
    > You were lucky, we were emailing locations of holes between the
    > underground and the surface to be fixed in a patch.

    Umm... How many times did you PLAY this game?

    - Ron ^*^
  48. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Bitstring <HE9Ke.111770$rb6.76517@lakeread07>, from the wonderful person
    Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> said
    <snip>
    >Well, that pretty much tells me all I need to know about the validity
    >of your claims in this and any other discussion.

    Well stop replying to him then - he's in most people's killfiles as a
    complete dweeb, but if you keep echoing all his cr&p by replying to it,
    you'll wind up there too.

    --
    GSV Three Minds in a Can
    Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.
  49. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    GSV Three Minds in a Can wrote:

    > Bitstring <HE9Ke.111770$rb6.76517@lakeread07>, from the wonderful person
    > Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> said
    > <snip>
    >
    >> Well, that pretty much tells me all I need to know about the validity
    >> of your claims in this and any other discussion.
    >
    >
    > Well stop replying to him then - he's in most people's killfiles as a
    > complete dweeb, but if you keep echoing all his cr&p by replying to it,
    > you'll wind up there too.

    Are you saying that he's incapable of rational discussion?

    - Ron ^*^
Ask a new question

Read More

PC gaming Pipeline Games Video Games